Bpdwife says I am NOT to talk to my family

[Sluggo]

   I Ihave a boundary that i set but have been struggling with.my Bpdwife says I am NOT to talk to my family.  because when I talk to my family it makes her feel less important. She says if I really love her I will stop communicating with them. I communicate with my mom or my sisters once every couple weeks. She stated that I am NOT to talk to my family for 3 months. If I do talk to my family then it can only happen when she is in the room. If I am ever to text my family it is to only happen while she read the text before I send it.  I told her that was an unhealty request.  she said if you feel that way then I will leave you and Divorce.  and I will make your life a living hell while I berate and belittle you in front of o kids.  so this has escalated quite a bit and I am Not sure if I should move the boundary in order to save this marriage or keep the peace

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[GreenMango]

All-

Demands to control who you talk to especially your family are absurd.  Her demanding this is very rough bc I'm imagining there's implied punishment.

If your relationship with them is something you value you have every right to keep it.  She can ask and you can say no - using the staying board communication tools like SET.

These relationships can be very isolating and it makes it harder on you.  And this won't solve or fix her irrational fears - moat likely the demands will increase.

I'd advise you to post about this on the staying board and specially ask for advice on how to approach this subject.  Also read the staying lessons - there's info on SET in there.

Boundaries are important.

[Grey Kitty]

You set a boundary.

Your wife doesn't like it. (Of course she doesn't. Keeping you isolated makes it easier for her to mess with you/control you/not deal with her own emotions. I doubt she has these actual thoughts, but her actions are absolutely following this pattern.)

You were sticking with it.

She decided to get a bigger hammer. (Threatening divorce, berating you in front of the kids)

I'd recommend you stick with your boundary. (it is your decision)

I'd also recommend you enforce another boundary, that you won't subject yourself or your children to listening to that kind of abuse from her.

I think there is a good chance that this is an extinction burst, and if you stand strong, she will get (relatively) used to the new version of you.

I think that if you cave on this one, she will decide that threatening divorce and berating you in front of your kids is the way to get what she wants from you, and what appears to be keeping the peace will turn into sliding further down the rabbit hole of being abused and isolated, instead of finding any peace.

 Hang in there! This sounds really tough for you!

[Sluggo]

Thank you Green Mango and Kitty.  I truly appreciate the feedback.  Yes it has been super hard and very difficult.  My relationship with my family is important (mom, brother, sisters) but I feel bullied into a no win situation that she will separate our nuclear family (kids and wife) which is 1st place if I have to put it on a scale.  She knows "divorcing" and "living in constant conflict" is my 'white flag button' where I have always given up in the past.   

Here is the last email sent last night from my BPDw.  She was responding to my comment that me continuing to talk to my family when I feel is important is a neutral choice and her response to that choice is aggression. 

Just to be clear your decision was not neutral, was choosing between ur family& me. I'm not trying to make u change ur mind, u can keep ur decision 4 the rest of ur life, that is not my problem. U r a 40+ year old man who should know what is best 4 u, kids & the destiny of this marriage. U took a decision live with the consequences.

I can't be married and worse leave with a person like u anymore.  I hate ur family. Ur decision didn't help me to stop hate them, actually made it worse.

U broke the trust, respect & every feeling that I have 4 u with ur decision and that is fine with me. Ur choice no mine.

If u r not living in the house I shouldn't have a reason to treat u bad but u don't care. I can't handle ur laisiness, forgetful mind, no be able to do anything around the house, messiness, ur un organize schedule, etc. Ur been in the house only brings, pain, anger, etc.

I can't wait 4 our baby to born and finish this piece of hell. If u don't want to argue with me,  leave the house or bring a court order for me to leave the house. Living in the same place is not healthy.

U talk about healthy decisions, well u should realize how unhealthy is for both of us living together in the same place.

Like, I told you last week I'm not here to try to change ur decision/position/mind at all between u & ur family. U choose something that is healthy for u. Im choosing what is healthy for me too. I accepted & respected ur decision. I just try to move on with my life too. I wish u do the same & stop bother me. It's one way or the other. U choose ur way and what is healthy for u & I choose my way and what is healthy for me. Because look like it u only care about individual health you don't count every body else around u. If u have the power to choose something that is healthy 4 ur individual care well I have the right to the same for me.

Our new baby is due in 3 months.  We have seen through ultrasound that she will be a special need child along with one other child we have that has special needs. They both have skeletal deformities resulting in dwarfism which has required multiple surgeries out of state.  Our 8 yr old son has had 16 surgeries to date. 

Not sure really why I just shared all that... .just really in a hard place right now. 

[zaqsert]

I'm sorry you're in such a hard place.

GreenMango and Grey Kitty shared great advice.  And I agree that it sounds like your wife is going through an extinction burst.  They're not pretty and at times can feel horrible, sorry.

As Grey Kitty pointed out, keep in mind that if you uphold your boundaries, your pwBPD (person with BPD) generally gets used to the new boundaries.  If you let them slide, your pwBPD will see them as porous (to borrow the term from an article that someone shared recently) and she will probably learn that if she escalates her behavior then eventually you will cave.  Then it becomes even harder for you to enforce your boundaries.

The email from your wife reminds me of what my uBPDw yelled when she raged at me in the past.  Beyond stating what I want and will do (keep contact with my family), further explaining it or labeling her approach as aggression only made things worse.  It dragged me into countless circular arguments and escalating rages.  Check out JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, and Explain) in the lessons (links in the box at the right of the Staying board pages) and do your best to avoid JADEing.

After lots of practice with the lessons and lots of help from wonderful members here, my wife still dislikes my family (although her opinion ranges from likes to despises, based on her feelings du jour), but she accepts that I will remain in contact with them.  She, however, can choose not to participate.  Part of this too was my learning to become more unenmeshed from her feelings.  They are hers.  I don't own them and cannot change them.

Hang in there and stay strong, for you, for your kids, and (although she won't see it this way or admit to it) your wife.

[zaqsert]

About the email she sent you, I would start by simply not responding.  I think a response would just prolong the circular arguments and accusations.

Others here may have suggestions for a very short, concise response.  I can't think of one right now.

When I have walked away from verbal rages like the one your wife emailed to you, it's amazing how after she cools down she won't mention it again.  Well, at least not until a future rage.  But the faster I disengage and walk away, the less time she has to attack.

[Sluggo]

zaqsert,

Thank you for your input.  I am amazed how the similarities of all these story's seem to have substantial overlap.  I appreciate you sharing.  I am looking for the JADE and SET examples.  I looked for the SET link yesterday but didn't track it down.  I will and start putting these things into practice. 

Did you have any kids listening while all this is going on?  If so what is a way to handle it.  Our kids range from 14 to 2.  The one dealing with it the hardest is the 12 yr old girl. 

[GreenMango]

All the examples for set, etc are in the lessons.  To the right margin --->.  

I agree with not answering that email it was... .well you know totally chaotic, didn't make a whole lot of sense, and threatening and abusive.  It's really best not to reward those tantrums with a circular argument.  It's amazing tho how we can drawn in thinking that we have to respond to their timeline.  In many cases it just makes things worse.

Take your time, read, and get your footing.  Itll help.

And just a quick question what's the deal with her hatred of your family? Is there legitimate concerns or is it she finds any attention or not picking her first everytime the problem?

[Waddams]

Just wanted to add don't delete the email, or others like it.  She's threatening to leave, or to try to make you leave.  Also, I'd recommend getting a small voice recorder and recording her rages and threats.  It's easy for pwPD to sling false accusations and the recordings can prove otherwise.  There are lots of us over on the legal board that wish we'd started recording sooner.  Would have saved us trips to jail.

[Grey Kitty]

My first thought about that email is to be careful what you believe in it:

Yes, you should believe that she was really upset at the time she wrote that email. (But be aware that feelings and moods change very quickly.)

The actual words are not true or valid things that you need to believe or agree with.

My second is to agree with others that answering it directly will do no good at all.

Upon reading it, I want to mention the additional boundary here:

Keep yourself (and your children) from listening to rages and attacks like that. Records and recordings may help you if things make it into a court later, and others on the legal board have good advice there. (I think I caught something about smartphone voice recorder apps over there recently) This is the staying board, and you will find better advice to take care of yourself and support you in trying to save your marriage and family here. Tools like time outs and other boundaries are much more effective for this.

[Sluggo]

Green Mango, wwaddaams, and Kitty,

Thank you for the valuable input. To answer Green Mango about where did this hatred for my family come from.  Here is my thoughts: 

I met my BPDw in South America and lived there for about 6 years (2 years married).  We moved back to the US after the money we had saved was in a bank that went belly up and closed.  So 15 years ago we came back without any money to US and lived with my mother for 1 year.  My BPDw didn't know English and I made the mistake of coming home and talking more in English to my mom than Spanish to her- hence leaving my wife to feel alone.  That created a resentment I didn't realize until year 2.  Also in the first year at home, my BPDw felt minimized by my Mom when it came to doing laundry, cooking, as many of the conviences of washing machines and dishwahsers were new to my wife.  My wife didn't feel she had a real home.  I didn't stick up for my wife like I could have at that time and fell into the trap of being my mom's son and not a husband to my wife.

So year one in the USA I made some poor choices in being a husband to my wife. 

Next comes the following years and the resentment from year one gradually builds with my wife.  As we started having children and my mother would come to visit, my mother would do a load a laundry if she was watching our children or put dishes away.  As my wife is very particular and demanding in the way she wants things done (clothes folded a certain way, dishes put away in a precise way) the kids would tell my mom she was doing things wrong but my mom would not put much attention to that).

With my sister, my wife didn't agree with the way she raised her children.  My wife thought I should tell my sister she was wrong in the way she was bringing up her children.  My wife thought she should raise them more conservitely than they were.  My wife hated that I would tell my sister she was wrong. 

Now we are in years of marriage 12-15 and we both do a day of psch testing as we were having problems in our marriage.  She is diagnosed with BPD and I am diagnosed with depression and co-dependency.  I started weekly therapy about 3 years ago and working on my issues.  I started realizing that much of my depression was a result of how I was interacting with my wife and losing myself in a Codenpent relationship. My wife started therapy about 10 weeks ago going 2 times a week. 

In the 15 years of marriage, I found myself gradually only talking about safe subjects with my wife.  Subjects that we would both agree on or subjects she wouldn't come back and use against me in an argument. Now there are only a handful of SAFE subjects we can discuss without them being used unfairly in an argument. 

Now when I am around my family I feel much like myself and talk and laugh about many things.  On 4th of July, it was a significant day.  My wife raged all the way about leaving 5 minutes late for a 1.5 hour ride home.  It eventially came out after about 3 day marathon fighting, she was mad that I can talk with my family and laugh and have fun but she doesn't see me that way with her. 

Since that day she has said she doesn't want me to talk to them.  I agreed on first week but said we have to get couple counseling.  After a week I went back on my promise to not talk to them realizing I did a dumb promise.   After 9 sessions of couple couseling, the couselor said he didn't see much hope for us as my wife was not responding very well to his suggestions and her high degree of contempt for me. 

So my wife said she will be better if I promise only to talk with the family in her presence.  I told her no that was not healthy.  She said she is only asking for 3 months.  I said no.  She said that I have made my choice and she will divorce me (as that is what I implicitly chose).   

[Grey Kitty]

So my wife said she will be better if I promise only to talk with the family in her presence.  I told her no that was not healthy.  She said she is only asking for 3 months.  I said no.  She said that I have made my choice and she will divorce me (as that is what I implicitly chose). 

Bringing this next bit up up with your wife is not going to be helpful... .but the situation is not how she presents it. This is my take on the real version:

She is making demands regarding your r/s with your family.

You choose to have a r/s with your family on your terms, not accepting her demands. (Even though you initially promised to do so)

She is saying she will divorce you. That is, she is making her own choice to divorce you because you still talk with your family.

You are not threatening divorce, or filing for divorce.

It eventially came out after about 3 day marathon fighting, she was mad that I can talk with my family and laugh and have fun but she doesn't see me that way with her. 

Since that day she has said she doesn't want me to talk to them.

All told, I think she has a valid concern, and I think for your marriage to be better you will need to address it. However agreeing to her demands is not the way to address this issue, and I suspect, it isn't really what she wants either.

I'm guessing that she wants you to laugh and have fun with her, and wants to do the same with you.

She doesn't realize that cutting you off from your family (with whom you laugh and enjoy yourself) won't make you more fun around her.

Are there still things about your wife's company that you enjoy?

[briefcase]

In addition, you might want to to avoid "over discussing" this issue with her.  Stick to a stock response, something like "we've discussed this and I don't think its healthy for me to not communicate with my family" (which is basically what you've been saying). 

Boundary work is hard.  Keep it up!