Well... I did it

[Rockylove]

I was feeling really ill last evening... .  it seemed to be coming on all day.  My glands were swollen, I was feverish and just lethargic.  I expressed this to my bf and he said "I can tell you're really not feeling well" so I said I'd be going to bed by 10pm after playing some scrabble with him and the guys.  My bf's son returned a couple of days ago, but it's not been horrible so I figured I was safe in taking some Nyquil to help with the symptoms I was experiencing. 

By 9:30 the guys had a pretty good buzz on and I said again that I was really needing sleep and that I'd be going to bed by 10.  My bf said he'd be going with me after finishing the beer he was drinking, however... .  he then asked our friend to get him another one while he was up.  I quietly got my coat and bag and headed for the door.  My bf was in the hallway and I kissed him and said "I'll see you tomorrow" to which he responded "oh, I see how it is" and I said I needed sleep and I just couldn't be around with him drinking like that.  I probably should have stopped with "I needed sleep" but alas... .  

Anyway, I drove to my friend's house and went to bed... .  slept like a baby and then came home.  Everyone here is still asleep.  Guess I'll find out the results of this once he wakes up.  Wish me luck!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[benny2]

You did what you NEEDED to do, so the hec with him.

[sadeyes]

Good for you Rocky. Taking care of YOU!

[Rockylove]

   Thanks, benny2!  I know what you are saying.  I actually feel really good about having gone for the night.  I came home and the house hasn't burned down so that's a good sign!  I just don't want this to be a regular thing.  If my sleep is disturbed any other time, I usually go up to my studio where I've got a nice futon bed, but since my bf's son is here staying in it and our friend is in the spare bedroom, I've no place to go except out of the house.  I've shared with my very close friend about my BPD suspicions and how the turmoil of the renovation has put my bf in a constant state of dysregulation and she's got a bed with my name on it any time day or night.  I just don't want to have to keep doing that.

If he's this dyregulated and I keep leaving will that facilitate further splitting?

[TigerEye]

Go Rockylove, good work!

You did exactly what you told him you would, he'll get to see that you mean what you say. You left to get sleep and you came back as you said you would. That's the first step taken, it may have to happen a few times over but if he wants you to be there with him, he'll need to make the changes to make that happen.

It's harder for him to argue the point with you because you have done exactly what you said you would, nothing more, nothing less.

Be hopeful that you won't have to do this all the time, but be happy to know that you can if you need to - for you.

[Rockylove]

You did exactly what you told him you would, he'll get to see that you mean what you say. You left to get sleep and you came back as you said you would... .  

It's harder for him to argue the point with you because you have done exactly what you said you would, nothing more, nothing less.

This has been a huge issue for us.  From very early on (before I knew what I was dealing with) I'd said that I could do something (that involved someone else actually coming through for me) that I ended up not being able to do at that time and he's held it against me ever since.  It's something he ALWAYS brings up during rages and calls me a liar.  At first I would JADE, but eventually understood that this was ineffective so I just let it roll now and I DO EXACTLY WHAT I SAY I WILL DO.  I don't know if he's even noticed that, but I feel good about it.  He's always telling me to choose my words carefully... .  and now I do so he won't be able to hold it against me.

[KateCat]

Gee, Rocklylove, you're really doing it!   I think this makes you a kind of pioneer for this approach. TigerEye makes the important point that you have done precisely what you said you would and will do. That shows great strength and consistency and it promotes trust.

It may be that the two sides of your fiance will have to do battle within him before the outcome becomes clearer. . . . Has he expressed any feelings that his drinking is a problem?

Experiencing the uninterrupted pleasure of your company is within his reach, each and every night.  

[Rockylove]

Has he expressed any feelings that his drinking is a problem?

it's interesting, KateCate.  He has often expressed his concern for the amount his son drinks~~it really seems to bother him, but he knows that there's nothing he can do about it.  He calls beer 'stupid in a bottle' and we've often joked about it.  We both drink although not to excess (except a very few occasions like my son's wedding) and there are more often times that he doesn't drink at all.  Even at his most tipsy, I've never seen him behave as badly as he has during this tumultuous time of our renovation, but then again I've never seen him so visibly stressed and dysregulated for an extended period of time. 

"They" say that if a couple can survive a remodel (building a house, etc) then they can survive anything.  It really IS that stressful even to the most seemingly calm individuals.  I'm surprised we've done as well as we have!

[real lady]

((RockyLove)) What has helped me with my uBPDso is that when I have "set a boundary"... .  I acted like I "needed" it FOR ME and that it was "no problem" and to "sweep it under the rug" so to speak.

If WE don't make an issue out of it, it is harder for them to "get triggered" and rage. I see you are on the staying board... .  have you considered counseling for yourself to find out how you can live with or deal with his drinking if he shows NO indication of change and very little consideration of you in needing your sleep?

I have calmly thought of it this way.  YOU LEFT to get some sleep. Period.

If he says he didn't like it,

say "I hear you say that you did not like what I did,

I understand, I had to do it for me". 

If he says 'YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED' to do that again

reply "it sounds like it really bothered you that I left"

If he says "That made me mad".

reply "I understand that you feel mad about me leaving".

SIMPLE VALIDATION of what he is feeling without feeling obligated to do what he is demanding.

YOU have the RIGHT to leave and you did it. He would not appreciate hearing how you have exerted your rights... .  it really bothers a pwBPD. If you keep playing it "low key" and present gently that "I just had to do it, no problem"... .  he will get the idea that you will continue to set boundaries without you spelling them out for him. Natural consequences of his behavior and YOU taking good care of you. Good things.

Don't feel bad about it, don't allow him "in your head" to make you feel guilty about it. If he was quiet and considerate and not drunk all the time, you would NOT have had to leave.

[Rockylove]

I see you are on the staying board... .  have you considered counseling for yourself to find out how you can live with or deal with his drinking if he shows NO indication of change and very little consideration of you in needing your sleep?

real lady... .  I was married to an alcoholic for 10 years.  I attended Al-Anon for the last 4 years of my marriage and plan to return as soon as I find a group close by that I'm comfortable with (attended 2 meetings with different groups last week, but they were not the ones I will attend regularly).  I'm no stranger to alcoholism~~it's been around me all my life (family members).  I will not discount the uncomfortable feelings I have with his over indulgence at the moment and he knows this.  I will not know if this is situational until the renovation is complete and our 'house guests' return to their perspective homes... .  or perhaps it will resurface if something different comes along to trigger him to over indulge again.  My crystal ball is cloudy to say the least.  I'll make no predictions other than to say that I will continue to do what I need to do to be healthy, happy and safe~~for now that includes being with him.

[Grey Kitty]

  Great job taking care of yourself!

This has been a huge issue for us.  From very early on (before I knew what I was dealing with) I'd said that I could do something (that involved someone else actually coming through for me) that I ended up not being able to do at that time and he's held it against me ever since.  It's something he ALWAYS brings up during rages and calls me a liar.  At first I would JADE, but eventually understood that this was ineffective so I just let it roll now and I DO EXACTLY WHAT I SAY I WILL DO.  I don't know if he's even noticed that, but I feel good about it.  He's always telling me to choose my words carefully... .  and now I do so he won't be able to hold it against me.

Good job not JADE'ing.

One other thought: Just let go of what he will bring up during a rage. Instead make sure you leave before a rage gets to that point!

Or try the validation suggestions from real lady--they sound really good and might just keep the rage from happening at all!

Either way--You won't get your life where you want it to be if you spend time worrying about his rages!

[Rockylove]

One other thought: Just let go of what he will bring up during a rage. Instead make sure you leave before a rage gets to that point!

Or try the validation suggestions from real lady--they sound really good and might just keep the rage from happening at all!

Either way--You won't get your life where you want it to be if you spend time worrying about his rages!

Thanks, Grey Kitty!  Being called a liar really hits my hot spot big time!  I know where it comes from and I'm still working at releasing old thoughts on this one. 

As for the validation... .  it's really challenging for me to validate when he is unreasonable and shouting obscenities at me.  Last night I was getting my tools together for work and he came into the room and I was grumbling to myself about having to go out in the rain to the shed to find something that I really thought was in the house... .  nothing to do with him what-so-ever, but of course he had to say something that I snapped a bit at him for and then he called me a btch and walked out.  I shouted at him "just stop with the name calling" and he said "just stop being a btch" and went into the bedroom.  A little bit later, I went in the bedroom to get my work clothes together for today and he said something and I apologized for snapping at him.  Then I said "I just really can't stand all the name calling" and he started in on me again.  I just shut my mouth and left the room. 

Truth is I really am tired of the name calling!  Finding an appropriate time to talk about anything is impossible at the moment~~tensions are just running too out of control.  So for now, I'll just have to suck it up and meditate A LOT!

[Grey Kitty]

Thanks, Grey Kitty!  Being called a liar really hits my hot spot big time!  I know where it comes from and I'm still working at releasing old thoughts on this one. 

Knowing where YOUR buttons are is good. Just knowing that you have to get away when he starts pushing them does wonders. Accept that sometimes you will be better at not taking it personally than others.

As for the validation... .  it's really challenging for me to validate when he is unreasonable and shouting obscenities at me. 

When it hits that point, it is pretty much too late for validation anyhow. Validation has better odds if you try it while he is becoming unreasonable but not yet shouting.

Truth is I really am tired of the name calling!  Finding an appropriate time to talk about anything is impossible at the moment~~tensions are just running too out of control.  So for now, I'll just have to suck it up and meditate A LOT!

I suggest you try another boundary: I will not talk to somebody who is calling me names.

If he calls you a name, try saying "I cannot handle talking to you if you call me that." and end the conversation at that point... .  doing whatever you need to do to disengage.

He can come back and try again later, but two or three strikes probably rates a real time-out.

If he wants to talk to you, he'll eventually figure out that doing without calling you names works better

[CodependentHusband]

GK,

    Good advice on boundary concerning name calling. I leave the room or hang up the phone after telling my pwBPD that I think the communication is unhealthy at the moment.

[LetItBe]

I suggest you try another boundary: I will not talk to somebody who is calling me names.

I third this excellent advice! 

A boundary of mine is I will not talk to someone who is yelling at me.

[Rockylove]

I'm just tired.  I'm tired of the bull crap.  His son is a drunken slug.  He stays up all night drinking, sleeps til 1pm works from 2-4:20 and then starts all over again.  He accomplished ZERO on Sunday, hung 2 sheets of drywall on Monday and little of nothing today.  I'm getting crap about my work taking too long.  I've been dying to do a really creative tile project and now's my opportunity and my bf is stepping all over me about it.  I can't say anything about his son because "we need his help"  yeah.  Like I need another friggin child to look after!  I'm trying not to lose my ___ over this.  I will have the shower done tomorrow and they can kiss my butt!  I've told them I needed to have them do certain things in order for me to get the rest of the bathroom done.  They haven't done it and I'm not going to move a muscle to help them.  I had friends of mine come help Saturday and we got more accomplished in 4 hours than they got done in 4 weeks!  I'm taking my sister's advice.  I'll finish the shower and then I'll be going visiting my grand kids and perhaps spend the night with my sister so I can have some "girl" time.  I'm tired of cooking (without the benefit of my kitchen) for and cleaning up after these boys!  They can do what they want and I don't give a royal poop! 

Of course I'm giving you the "I'm really fed up" version.  I'll probably not say anything of that to them... .  I'll just do what I do and go have some fun.  Whew!

[CodependentHusband]

RL,

   Visiting your family is a great idea! Getting your mind off of it will help you recharge.

[Grey Kitty]

 

Of course I'm giving you the "I'm really fed up" version.  I'll probably not say anything of that to them... .  I'll just do what I do and go have some fun.  Whew!

That's three thumb's up for taking care of yourself... .  

... .  and two more for not sharing the btch session with the natural target of it, which you know would just make things worse!

[Rockylove]

 

... .  and two more for not sharing the btch session with the natural target of it, which you know would just make things worse!

I'm sure I've said enough already, Grey Kitty.  The thing is that I know how overwhelmed he is by all of this and that's why he's behaving so badly and HE needs to get away from it as well.  I feel like he's partying every night to escape but that's just prolonging the agony and he doesn't understand that.  Staying sober and productive will gain so much more ground than having to nurse a hangover all day!  I can't say anything though because it's not a concept that he'll likely understand as reasonable anyway.  I just want this to be done so I can actually see if this (the excessive partying) is an acute issue or a chronic one.   Since he's never been like this around me before and it ceased when his son left for a few days, I'd be apt to think the former rather than the latter, but I'm holding back on my analysis of the situation until our home becomes OUR home again and not some wild Frat house.

[zaqsert]

Hi Rockylove,

It can be so frustrating to see that something is so likely to help a BPDso, yet they either don't see it or won't do it!  We moved several months ago for a temporary work assignment (my work), and my uBPDw complained about it from the day we moved.  Moving had been her idea in the first place.  But as soon as we actually moved, all the difficulties became "my fault".  Before and after the move, she had been talking about going to visit her family for several weeks, which probably would have helped by getting her away from what seemed to be triggering things.  But she didn't.  Now, finally, many months later, she is planning a short trip.  I'm not sure which was the chicken and which the egg, but in the past week or so she has also been gradually coming back to a better emotional place (more positive, less anger, less blaming, etc.).

I've been really impressed with you how've been handling yourself and focusing on your needs throughout this!  Way to go!

Enjoy the time with your family!  Fingers crossed that your bf ends up getting away somehow too.

Sending you lots of support from all of us over here!

zaqsert

[Rockylove]

Thank you, zaqsert.  I'm really trying not to lose it over this.  It just isn't worth it, but the more sleep I lose the more overwhelmed and angry I become with the situation. 

I have to chuckle a bit about your wife blaming you for all the difficulties surrounding your move... .  damned if you do and damned if you don't!  *sigh*  I'm glad things are looking up and I hope that the trip helps her get a bit more grounded. 

Now to get my Dr. Jekyll back... .  

[Grey Kitty]

Now to get my Dr. Jekyll back... .  

I'm wishing you the best there! But in the meantime... .  as long as you take care of yourself, you will be better equipped to avoid nagging, I told you so's, and other JADING. 

Remember--it takes the best in you to bring out the best in him!

[Rockylove]

Remember--it takes the best in you to bring out the best in him!

Unfortunately, I'm not at my best right now... .  but I'm surviving.  His son left suddenly this morning, but he'll be back tomorrow from what I understand.  It's always so peaceful when he's not around... .  I'm enjoying this evening.