It's about boundaries...again

[Rockylove]

Soo... .the saga continues.  If you don't know... .my husband had a severe stroke a year ago today.  He's recovered some, but is still very disabled.

A few weeks back he got all bent out of shape over a pack of cigarettes and threw all of my belongings out of the bedroom, said it was HIS house, blah blah and he threatened to call the cops to have me thrown out.  (Frankly, having my own bedroom is fine because I can keep it tidy and I sleep much better without him thrashing around all night)

Anyway... .His rages are escalating because I set boundaries.  He one-ups me every time!  I'm running out of things to say to him about this.  I guess I'm not sure what to tell him about the threats of being thrown out of the house and him throwing my stuff out in the yard.  I know he doesn't want me to leave and it usually passes in a day or two, but when he's dysregulated, he is destructive and it's always directed at my belongings.  I don't care all that much about "stuff" but I certainly don't want what little I have to get broken because he's nutz.  Any suggestions?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

  Hang in there!

First off, this sounds pretty normal for a pwBPD. When you start enforcing new boundaries, you will get an extinction burst, where he will get louder and more aggressive trying to break past them. And if you give in, you teach him that next time you try to enforce boundaries, this is the best way for him to get what he wants.

As for your situation. If he's trying to throw you out of the house, consider leaving. And I mean that with a small "l" not a capital "L".

Have you got anyplace you can stay for a night or maybe a week? A trusted friend with a couch or guest room? It is much easier to do something like this if you have already arranged the possibility ahead of time.

Really... .when he's that dysregulated, it doesn't do either of you any good to be together, although perhaps if you leave your belongings are at risk... .thus planning this out ahead of time for the next time it happens. And believe me, if you back down on something because of this kind of threat, it will happen again.

[Lostindirt]

Rockylove,

Sorry to hear about your husband's stroke.  I work in rehab (imagine a codependent type in a "helping profession" such a stereotype) and my first question when reading this was how much of this is BPD and how much is stroke?  Is he on any psych meds? If not now may be your chance to get him there  because often after stroke your impulse control decreases and that in turn typically worsens any mental health issues. If you can get him in to see a neurologist I'm sure they would have some ideas for helping with that or even a gp could refer to a psychiarist.

[Rockylove]

... .And if you give in, you teach him that next time you try to enforce boundaries, this is the best way for him to get what he wants.

... .If he's trying to throw you out of the house, consider leaving. And I mean that with a small "l" not a capital "L".

Have you got any place you can stay for a night or maybe a week? A trusted friend with a couch or guest room? It is much easier to do something like this if you have already arranged the possibility ahead of time.

Thanks for the reminder, Grey Kitty.  I do have places I can go.  I've gone before, but it's different now because of his disability.   I do think of his safety in all of this.  He isn't physically able to drive, but he's taken and hidden the spare car and truck keys and all of the house keys, except the one that I have hidden in my own truck.  In spite of the brain damage and craziness of uBPD, he's clever.

Lostindirt, it's a very good question... .how much is stroke and how much is BPD, but honestly it doesn't matter.  I have been able to get him to take anti-depressants prescribed by his MD.  There is a psychiatric med that a friend of his suggested (she's a psych nurse) and my husband was the one that brought it up to the psychologist, but he can only talk to the MD to see if that's something he can or will prescribe.  There is no way (without committing him) that my husband will go to a psychiatrist.

We had our 2nd session yesterday with a psychologist that his MD referred him/us to.  I could tell that he wasn't wanting to go because he was stalling.  We were 15 minutes late and then he walked out of our session after about 10 minutes.  I stayed for the remainder of the session.  When I came out, he was nowhere to be found.  I got a bit frantic looking then saw him in the distance walking down the road (a busy road, no sidewalks, 55 mph speed limit)!  I immediately went in and told the therapist about it because I NEED for someone who is in a position to attest to his state of mind know about his behavior.

I'm going to continue with the psychologist on my own.  I'm worn out and it's become difficult to deal with uBPDh's shenanigans.  It's about my sanity now and I'm doing this for me. 

[Lostindirt]

Grey Kitty,

Reminds me so much of a past patient I had.   This patient attempted to walk home despite home being 25+ miles away and it was a wet cold February.

Honestly you may have to commit (hospitalize ) him to get this worked out.  It sounds like he is a danger to himself. You might check into your local laws regarding all that. Ask your psychologist they will definitely know.  I'm glad you are seeing the psych.  Hang in there

[Rockylove]

Honestly you may have to commit (hospitalize ) him to get this worked out.  It sounds like he is a danger to himself. You might check into your local laws regarding all that. Ask your psychologist they will definitely know.

I've already checked into this.  I actually went to the police station and went through the process and upon talking with the Magistrate, decided not to follow through at that time.  Having him committed would be a temporary thing where the police would pick him up and bring him to a psychiatric facility for evaluation (up to 8 hrs) unless they deem him see fit to commit him longer (placed on a 72 hr hold).  He'd have to go before a judge after the 72 hrs to see if he should be kept longer.  Depending on who would make the initial evaluation, he could be home that same day and I've no doubt he'd be fit to be tied!  I'm holding off on that route because I know he'd totally resent me and he'd really do something drastic (wouldn't surprise me if he put the house up for sale and/or filed for divorce).   

[Grey Kitty]

I'm going to continue with the psychologist on my own.  I'm worn out and it's become difficult to deal with uBPDh's shenanigans.  It's about my sanity now and I'm doing this for me. 

 

Do take care of yourself.

And as far as his disability / personal needs go... .yes, you love him and care for him. Yes, that is a very good reason to take care of things he cannot do for himself, and perhaps even things he could do for himself but refuses to do.

HOWEVER, it is not a reason to subject yourself to abuse while you do care for him. If he cannot care for himself at home and cannot drive... .and throws you out of the house, whatever you were doing for him before becomes his problem.

Don't let him use himself as a hostage and emotionally blackmail you into abuse that way.

Meanwhile... .he is obviously trying to manipulate you, and escalating things. Be prepared and take care of yourself. When you are out, have (more) spare keys made for your vehicle and the house while you still have some. Hide some outside the house, or in your truck, or give them to a trusted friend (or all of the above). I hope your phone is in your name and not on a plan he has the authority to disconnect. Make a safety plan and figure out what you need to leave on very short notice without huge impact to YOU.

Honestly, I don't think I'd push for an involuntary commitment. Unless he does something so out of line to himself or attempts something against you that already has law enforcement / courts / emergency medical providers involved, in which case I'd suggest you not do much to protect him from the consequences of his own actions.

He sounds very likely to resist further treatment, and a 72 hour hold won't do anything for BPD...

[CharWood]

rocky:

I am sorry you are having to deal with this. my BPD ex and I share a home until the end of November due to the fact that we both are in a lease and have established residency. This past weekend, my BPD ex went into a drunken BPD rage and caused a few hundred dollars worth of damage to our home: broke my sliding glass shower door, tore the front off a drawer and started hitting the wall and my door with it. Tore up my bedroom door and knocked a huge hole in the wall. She was insane. Her BPD seems to get worse when she drinks. And, up until Sunday, she had been drinking every day. This is the worst she has ever behaved. She was being emotionally abusive during this rage as well. I realize she could easily focus her destruction on me and that is scary.

I have been putting up boundaries with her for years and she continuously pushes them. When will enough be enough?

My suggestion would be this: call the cops or have a mutual friend come over.

I had a mutual friend who is a nurse come over with his stepdaughter. He sat my ex down and gave it to her straightforward. She is embarrassed and 3 people have seen her behavior and the consequences of it now. While she is still unsure about treatment for her drinking and BPD, she has stopped drinking and removed all alcohol from the house. It is only day 3 though. She immediately went to home depot the next day and started purchasing items she needs to purchase to fix and replace everything she tore up at her own expense (rightfully so).

BPD sufferers have low self esteem and toxic shame, true. BUT, I notice when my ex is caught behaving badly by others, it makes her wake up a bit. I am not certain how long this better behavior will last but sometimes you have to get help in upholding your boundaries.

[Daniell85]

CharWood makes a really good point about the toxic shame and what happens when third parties see the BPD behavior.

It's that isolation that gets created in abusive relationships. The abuse becomes normalized to the abuser and without larger context, they think it's all ok.

He is disabled? Is it possible to get someone to come into the house to help out a couple of times a week? I wonder if not only that would help you be able to step out without being fearful for him, AND if it would remind him that there are people who can see his acting out... .maybe it would deter him some.

It all sounds so stressful and hurtful. I am sorry you are having this environment, I would be really upset most of the time from it. 

[Rockylove]

He sounds very likely to resist further treatment, and a 72 hour hold won't do anything for BPD...

I figured therapy would be short lived.  He had mentioned several times in the past that he was jealous of his brother (as a kid) because he got to go to therapy, so silly me thought he'd WANT to go.  Oh well.

I understand the concept of leaving when he's dysregulating, but I can't seem to stop the whirlwind of thoughts I have during one of these episodes that keep me from walking out the door.  I'm finding it very difficult to calm my own brain down during these times which makes me extremely uncomfortable.  I can't believe I let myself be sucked into the vortex of dysfunction and I need that to stop NOW.   

[Rockylove]

He is disabled? Is it possible to get someone to come into the house to help out a couple of times a week? I wonder if not only that would help you be able to step out without being fearful for him, AND if it would remind him that there are people who can see his acting out... .maybe it would deter him some.

It all sounds so stressful and hurtful.

Funny you should mention getting some help.  A friend (who has known my h for years) has been living with us since May.  He's a lot of help in some ways, but no help at all in others.  During my h's last rage,  he (our friend) stayed up in his room even though I was yelling out for help.  He's not the right fit for this situation, but at least it's someone who has seen/heard/experienced some of the craziness.  I know he's looking to move come spring and that's fine with me. 

This all IS hurtful and stressful.  I know I'm strong, but I'm finding that I can't keep it all together all the time.  I have to have my wits about me and all plans in place for when our friend finds a place and moves out (not likely til spring).

[Grey Kitty]

Calming your thoughts in the face of dysregulation is really hard.

Planning exactly what you will do with the possible/likely scenarios now while you are calm is easier.

If you have planned it out and rehearsed it in your head, you can take those steps you planned on even when your mind is trying to run in circles. You will calm down once you get out.

Hang in there!

[Rockylove]

If you have planned it out and rehearsed it in your head, you can take those steps you planned on even when your mind is trying to run in circles. You will calm down once you get out.

I guess I'm having trouble trying to formulate what I would say or if I should say anything at all.  Leaving is very unsettling.  I never know if he'll get worse if I leave in which case, I'd likely find all my belongings in the yard.  Although the rages are not new to me (geez... .I'm a seasoned vet Yay) the craziness from the stroke make it a different ball game.  Am I supposed to clean up the mess?  I don't need to have any more on my plate than I already do.  Is that an excuse NOT to leave?  I just don't know.  If physical abuse is an issue, I'd have to leave, but doesn't leaving (especially when he tells me to get out) re-enforce his position of control over me?  He knows I'll be back so what would the point be?  I have no desire to leave my home or my relationship.  I guess that's where I'm stuck.

[formflier]

 If physical abuse is an issue, I'd have to leave, but doesn't leaving (especially when he tells me to get out) re-enforce his position of control over me?  

Ugggg... .   

I struggle with this too.  Sometimes when I walk away she will say "You go upstairs and hide... ." or sometimes she will demand I leave.

I have worried that it is "giving in".  

Still... I think leaving is the right call.  They are not going to regulate themselves.  Your presence is triggering or it at least gives them an "object" to focus the hate and rage.

Last time I got in a mood to "fight leaving"... .I cooked up a plan to just put on headphones (nice noise cancelling ones) and let her rage... .that way I could "win" the battle of staying where I wanted... .

Yeah... .there were zero people on this board that thought that a good idea.  Luckily... .I never attempted it.

Him destroying your items... .tossing stuff around.

If it were me... .I would call cops for the mental eval.  I understand the concern about him filing for divorce... .not getting properly diagnosed... etc etc.

Someone else said it first... .but it is good to remember.  The consequence of having no consequence is... .

If you call cops and his is taken away... .then I would clean up the mess.

If you are not going to call cops... .I would never touch the mess.  My only communication would be about when he is going to clean it up.  

My .02 cents worth.

 

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I guess I'm having trouble trying to formulate what I would say or if I should say anything at all.  Leaving is very unsettling.  I never know if he'll get worse if I leave in which case, I'd likely find all my belongings in the yard.  Although the rages are not new to me (geez... .I'm a seasoned vet Yay) the craziness from the stroke make it a different ball game.  Am I supposed to clean up the mess?  I don't need to have any more on my plate than I already do.  Is that an excuse NOT to leave?  I just don't know.  If physical abuse is an issue, I'd have to leave, but doesn't leaving (especially when he tells me to get out) re-enforce his position of control over me?  He knows I'll be back so what would the point be? 

Leaving to avoid physical abuse is very clear, and I'm glad you understand that.

You are struggling about leaving to avoid verbal/emotional abuse.

First off, listening to his abuse is reinforcing his control over you far more than leaving when he tells you to go would.

As for your practical question of what to say, my suggestion there is very little, and nothing is completely acceptable. Here are a couple I've used that you can try on and see if you want to use:

I'm going away before I say something I'll regret later

I will not stay here and listen to that abuse

Since you expect him to start throwing your belongings out into the yard, plan ahead--If there are specific things that you really aren't willing to risk having that treatment, grab them as you go, or move them out ahead.

Honestly, you can take a lot off your plate and have much more time. Here is the "trick" to clean your plate, if you can believe it and live it. You are NOT required to do ANYTHING to care for him while he is being abusive toward you in anyway. It doesn't matter how much harm he will come to without you to take care of him. He's choosing to behave that way. In effect what he's doing is holding himself hostage to control you, and you are letting him win with it.

I think the best thing you can do about his threats to throw you out is to take him up on it and leave. If you just go away instead of getting all worried and upset and wondering what you can do to make things better with him, he doesn't get any reward for doing it. He might even stop when it doesn't give him the desired effect.

The next level is what to do if (when?) he throws your belongings out in the yard. Pick them up, put them in your vehicle and drive off with them.

As long as he can control you with threats to throw you out... .he will keep doing it.

I have no desire to leave my home or my relationship.  I guess that's where I'm stuck.

My first suggestion was that you should consider leaving (with a lower case "l" for the time being to get out of the abuse instead of Leaving (with an upper case "L" your home and relationship.

[KateCat]

Honestly, you can take a lot off your plate and have much more time. Here is the "trick" to clean your plate, if you can believe it and live it. You are NOT required to do ANYTHING to care for him while he is being abusive toward you in anyway. It doesn't matter how much harm he will come to without you to take care of him. He's choosing to behave that way. In effect what he's doing is holding himself hostage to control you, and you are letting him win with it.

This "trick" is a magic trick, Rockylove. It really is.

Thank you for stating it so elegantly, Grey Kitty.

[Rockylove]

Perhaps I'm over thinking this, but what exactly IS the desired effect in him telling me to get out of HIS house?  I just don't see how that would benefit him in any way.  I realize that giving him space to calm down is important, but if he knows I'll be back, doesn't that reinforce his position of "power" over me?  I've been trying to read up on this subject and can't seem to find any answers that explain it to my understanding.  Anyone have suggestions?   

[formflier]

Perhaps I'm over thinking this, but what exactly IS the desired effect in him telling me to get out of HIS house?  I just don't see how that would benefit him in any way.  I realize that giving him space to calm down is important, but if he knows I'll be back, doesn't that reinforce his position of "power" over me?  I've been trying to read up on this subject and can't seem to find any answers that explain it to my understanding.  Anyone have suggestions?   

My take on this... .

There is no benefit.  It's classic push pull... ."I hate you... .don't leave me"

Very likely that his feelings really scare him... .he can't deal with it... he has "externalized" his feelings and tossed them onto you.

Most of us nons are pretty good at "catching" the feelings and owning them... .so that reinforces their thinking that the bad stuff they feel is caused by us.

So... .after following that tortuous path in his mind he ends up thinking (erroneously)  "Rocky love is making me feel bad... if I make her go away I will feel better"

Then... .when you leave and he doesn't feel better... .he will twist it to be something else's fault.

Hope that helps explain the mindset.

Do you know what your husbands "Core wound" is?

For instance... .I'm 99% positive that my wife's core issue is that she was an "unexpected" twin.  Literally... they found out they were having twins when they delivered.  Her parents already had a girl... .and wanted a boy.  My wife came out after the boy.

Anyway... .the treatment of the 3 siblings is incredibly different.  Parents "gave everything" to first daughter, raised a boy with no expectations and told him everything to do (he doesn't figure out much on his own... even today) and then pretty much left my wife to her own devices to figure things out.

In all actuality... .that did her some favors (relatively speaking) because she is far more responsible than her brother and sister... .since she wasn't "given" things... .she does have a work ethic.

Anyway... .her core wound is not being wanted... .and her mom was and is obvious about it... .in addition to being a harsh "BPDish" lady.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Perhaps I'm over thinking this, but

Yes, you are overthinking it.

what exactly IS the desired effect in him telling me to get out of HIS house?

Last I checked, you haven't left when he said that yet. So the benefit doesn't come from you actually leaving. Think about that for a bit.

Next question. In the past, what have you DONE when he asked you to leave?

And how does what you actually did (as opposed to what he told you to do!) benefit him?

But stop overthinking what it does for him, and how it benefits him. Think instead about what it does to YOU. Standing by him while he's rejecting you like that hurts you. Stop subjecting yourself to that. 

[formflier]

Last I checked, you haven't left when he said that yet. So the benefit doesn't come from you actually leaving. Think about that for a bit.

This is the central question... .there are lots of answers and issues for both sides of the dynamic to consider out of this question.

FF

[KateCat]

Great questions from GreyKitty and formflier.

I only want to add that this dynamic was central to your relationship from the very beginning, wasn't it? He was always "throwing you out" and you were always "retreating" rather than leaving?

What a powerful dynamic this must be to persist after his stroke. (And what a powerful insight from GC that the benefit doesn't come from you actually leaving.)

I think you can change this.

[formflier]

 

I also think the 2nd most important question here is what happens when the friend leaves.

Please be diligent about searching for professional help that can come into your home and assist.

Very likely you will be told no many times... .keep searching... .

Rockylove,

I am in awe of the energy and dedication that you have to your marriage .  Your husband is a very lucky man.

This level of work as a caregiver is not sustainable over the long term

I'm comfortable stating that is not an opinion... .it's fact.  The only question is how long you can keep it up before you crack.  My gut says that is a long time... .you are an amazing caregiver.

Your job number 1 is to find outside support resources so we never figure out the answer to the question of how long can you keep it up.

 

FF

[KateCat]

This level of work as a caregiver is not sustainable over the long term

I'm comfortable stating that is not an opinion... .it's fact.  The only question is how long you can keep it up before you crack.  My gut says that is a long time... .you are an amazing caregiver.

Your job number 1 is to find outside support resources so we never figure out the answer to the question of how long can you keep it up.

 

I just wrapped up fifteen years of elder care duty (with one elder a wheelchair-bound stroke victim) and know for certain that this is a fact. No one can do this alone.

[Rockylove]

WOW!  Thank you all for your input.  Let me first say that I have indeed, left on several occasions when he's told me to get out.  I don't really see how that was productive as I came back. 

One time that he kicked me out, I was working a distance from home and decided to stay at my son's house.  My h was so crazy the entire time I was gone sending me awful emails and text messages.  It had me terribly stressed out.  I had to stop reading them and I darned sure wasn't going to respond to the nonsense!

I've left and I've stayed put.  I don't see any difference and he still wants to play that card.   

Thank you for the vote of confidence in my ability to be a caregiver.  Crack?  I feel like maybe I already have cracked but I'm just to busy and tired to notice. 

The issue about having someone come in and help is difficult.  He will not pay for a care giver to come help and I don't have the money to pay someone to do it.  Some things will have to give.  I've already told him that I won't cook dinner on days that I'm working because I'm gone from 8:30am til 6 or 6:30pm.   

I'm going to continue working with the (mental health) therapist because I really need to keep myself from going under.  The rest will have to be dealt with when the time comes.  I can only think about today... .tomorrow will have to wait.

[KateCat]

Good work on seeing a therapist for yourself. 

So you have an upcoming birth of a grandchild? And a planned month away from home to participate in the birth? Hmm. I wonder what your husband is planning to do during this time? 

[Grey Kitty]

  Good to hear you are seeing a T for yourself!

One time that he kicked me out, I was working a distance from home and decided to stay at my son's house.  My h was so crazy the entire time I was gone sending me awful emails and text messages. 

[... .]

I've left and I've stayed put.  I don't see any difference and he still wants to play that card. 

I disagree completely on your conclusion that your action makes no difference.

When he told you to leave, and you appeared to actually leave, he FREAKED THE F*** OUT.

Yes, it was difficult for you to get all that bile from him... .but I think it shows very clearly, that whether you stay or whether you go away makes a difference to him. A BIG difference.

He thinks he can control you by playing that card, and get you back to doing what he wants you to do. Since you've responded in pretty mixed ways, he's still things it works.

If you start consistently leaving when he kicks you out... .you are going to experience another extinction burst or two (like that one you described), but he will realize it doesn't work well for him.

If you made the choice to go away for the night (or longer if he stays on a dysregulated rampage) every time he told you to leave, I bet he won't do it very many more times.

[Rockylove]

If you made the choice to go away for the night (or longer if he stays on a dysregulated rampage) every time he told you to leave, I bet he won't do it very many more times.

Funny thing is the therapist told me that I need to be absolutely OK with leaving permanently even if that isn't what is necessary.  I understand the concept which may be the reason I'm resisting.  I've put so much time and effort into this house to make it a home and way more effort into the relationship than I probably should have.  It's difficult to walk away from it all.  I had to do that in my last marriage (to an alcoholic) after 10 years, hard work and heartache. 

I know that I'm responsible for getting myself into this mess and I feel so very foolish.  After all the soul searching and personal development work I've done, I never thought I'd be caught up in such a dysfunctional relationship ever again.  I thought I was tough enough to handle whatever sh*t was thrown at me.  I believed that all relationships are hard work and I was willing to make compromises as long as they weren't issues that would compromise my integrity.  But I ignored red flags.  I held firm at first, but it seems like my boundaries were weak and I allowed by h to chip away at my core belief system.  I thought I was being fair and open minded at first, but I feel now that I was being dismantled.  I've got to regain that inner strength I'd found and I've got to do it sooner rather than later or I'll no longer exist.

[Grey Kitty]

Oh honey, that is a tough one to face. Leaving permanently, and giving up all the time and effort you put into making a home and loving this man.

Dunno what to say, as that is where I am now. Separated, and cutting the remaining ties from the last two and a half decades (my whole adult life) together. For better or worse, she's not full-on BPD now, so there isn't fighting or abuse anymore. 

However where you are... .you MAY have to leave permanently someday. That isn't where you are today. If you do get there, you will feel much more peace if you believe you did everything you could to make it work first. And when I say that, I don't mean accepting all the abuse and bad behavior you possibly can--that is the "easy" way.

I mean standing up to the abuse, clear in your heart and your actions that you are working for your marriage, by NOT accepting the abuse that doesn't belong in it. Being firm and loving with your husband even when you enforce boundaries with him. When I say loving, I don't mean he will feel loved--I mean you know you are doing it out of love to save your marriage, not doing it to hurt him in any way. Even if he hurts terribly at the time.

I've done that too. When I stopped accepting abuse, it changed a lot of things. My wife much later shared what happened--she had all that abusive CRAP built up and had to send it somewhere. I went away as I wasn't going to accept it. Her first move was to aim it at herself instead. She had some VERY dark days with that. I knew it was bad, but had no idea how bad until much later. And after facing that, she somehow figured out she didn't need to do that, and even found a way to stop. And she even thanked me (also much later) for leaving her with no choice but to face it. We are both better people for that.

I'm living proof that this is possible. And looking back, standing up to the abuse while staying in my marriage is one of the things in my life I'm most proud of.

Sometimes I really wonder how I ended up there. Today I KNOW I'll never be back in that kind of situation. I know I'm strong enough to survive it. And I know I won't have to.

You are stronger than you know.

[Rockylove]

Sometimes I really wonder how I ended up there. Today I KNOW I'll never be back in that kind of situation. I know I'm strong enough to survive it. And I know I won't have to.

You are stronger than you know.

I wonder how I ended up here, too.  Thank you for sharing what's going on with you.  I didn't know that you were separated.  I've been in my own little world lately and I'm sorry that I've not kept up with all of you that have been so wonderful to me.  I can't say that I'll do any better, but I'd like to think that I will.

[formflier]

  I thought I was tough enough to handle whatever sh*t was thrown at me. 

Rockylove,

I'm wondering if you can examine this sentence that you wrote... .if it was an offhand comment... or represents the way you look at boundaries.

I'll also say... I get the sentiment... .

What I wanted to say for you... .and any other readers... .is that just because someone throws sh*t at you... .doesn't mean you have to "handle it".

I still struggle with this... .but sometimes it's better to step aside and let if fly by... .

Then... .and this is where rescuers/fixers struggle... .we have to be strong and not help the person throwing it... .clean it up.

Their mess... .the target is not involved.

FF