I am so tired. Is she doing it on purpose?

[joshbjoshb]

Just curious if you have similar situations... .she is not in a combative mood, but just in an accusing mode but it's being done in a slow conversation that doesn't end. Any time I want to stop she is insisting we need to continue. Overall about 2.5 hours today went on the same old mantras of her, how it's my fault, and because of my background, and how much she suffers etc. etc.

She just got me so tired. I was wondering if subconsciously she was trying to do something to me? To get upset? To abandon her? To make me feel bad so I won't abandon her? Not sure.

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[engineer]

Mine does exactly the same thing.

I get the impression she doesn't think there is anything wrong with it.  In fact, I think she is just "venting".  She has told me after sessions like this that she knows what she is feeling isn't quite reality, but being able to express how she is feeling in the moment helps her to get through it and see the truth.  She has even been very thankful after such a session (when I have managed to not react or defend myself but instead just let her talk).  And then she has even said she really appreciates being able to do that and that she has never been able to trust anyone else enough to let out what is actually in her head.

There are other times where she seems to be trying to pick a fight for reasons I can't imagine, but in the situation you described... .I think she is just airing the weird stuff going on in her head.

[Mutt]

HI joshbjoshb,

She has told me after sessions like this that she knows what she is feeling isn't quite reality, but being able to express how she is feeling in the moment helps her to get through it and see the truth.  She has even been very thankful after such a session

Maybe she wants reassurance? It’s hard to tell when we don’t know the details. Can you help members by telling us the context of the conversation?

[Tattered Heart]

hi joshb,

I understand this dyanmic. My H seems to get stuck on things and just can't let them go. It seems like a slow drip of torment to me at times. I always need to reassess my own state when I start to get overwhelmed by him by going back to the basics: What is my pwBPD trying to tell me with their behavior (not their words)? What is he feeling?


I'd like to second Mutt. Is there something in particular we can help you work through?

[isilme]

Yes to venting and yes to picking a fight.

No - it's not intended to do much to you, as your feelings about it are not even registering at the time.  

A pwBPD has trouble sorting through their own emotions.  H has told me he needs to "yell at a person" regardless of what is wrong, or if a person is even at fault.  Also, they can't accept that their feelings are their own to manage, that they CAN take charge of them, and they need to spew them out at the person closest and most enmeshed (you) to process them.  

I kinda think by the time we witness enough of the alarming things about BPD, we have been kind of absorbed as far as they are concerned.  We are the part of them that can handle this for them.  We are the part of them that can take the negative feelings, the blame, and face the reality they just can't.  This seems to be what they think part of our function is.  Maybe we are emotional kidneys for them, filtering toxins from their emotional state they can't seem to face.

This goes to venting AND the need to pick a fight.  If they feel negative, sometimes they will pick a fight so they can retroactively blame us for the negative feelings.  Actual facts and timelines don't matter - feelings = facts.

The best you can do is validate what you can, let them know you've heard them, and then find ways to end the conversation as drama free as possible.  Sometimes, this means leaving the room or building, bluntly saying you can't talk about it more, or subtly finding you forgot some errand you need to do.  Remove yourself as the emotional sponge, and they are forced to work on their atrophied self soothing "muscles".

[joshbjoshb]

The best you can do is validate what you can, let them know you've heard them, and then find ways to end the conversation as drama free as possible.  Sometimes, this means leaving the room or building, bluntly saying you can't talk about it more, or subtly finding you forgot some errand you need to do.  Remove yourself as the emotional sponge, and they are forced to work on their atrophied self soothing "muscles".

I am guilty of not practicing this today  another 2 hours of that stuff. Not even sure what it is.

This time she wanted me to admit that what I did 2 years ago was a mistake. It was a time we needed to reach a decision if we move out of our town to a different town. For a long time she said she wanted to leave, but she didn't, and it was my fault and bla blah. At some point I told her that she needs to reach a decision and let me know. She had an insane crazy time with it, spoke to people - and blamed me again for her issues - and in the end didn't reach a decision.

So basically I did... .

I told her it might have been a mistake, but I don't know what I would have done today if we faced the same issue, and I wish we went to learn how to communicate better. But she kept at it, and got angry and almost wanted to kill herself (not for real, but she got very upset) because I wasn't ready to admit it was a mistake.

So finally I told her yes it was a mistake, she knew it was bs but for some odd reasons that kind of made this rage go away and she became calmer... .

So what does she wants? I don't even have a clue. Does she feel better if I "indict" myself? Does she feel reassurance that I am a bad guy so she is a true victim?

[isilme]

It's not the cut and dry - no, we do not need to make a habit of validating untrue and unfair accusations against us - we all do it time to time simply to scale back the fight or the drama, but it's not the best thing to do.

Try to remember a BIG part of BPD seems to involve not managing shame (blame/responsibility) well.  They often would rather go through the most convoluted set of mental gymnastics to make it anyone else's fault then own it themselves, and will re-write history, invent conversations that fit their emotional state, interpret your comments in ways you'd never understand because they make no sense.

H also has what he calls "strong emotional memory",  When he gets upset, all instances where he's been that upset come back all as if the just happened, so I can end up with 20+ years of accusations being heaped upon me.  Recently, he started getting agitated remembering an incident over 15 years ago at a friend's house.  In this case, it was very easy to validate that yes, the friend was rude and it was uncalled for at that time. 

Saying "I wish we could learn to communicate better" is a perfectly normal thing to say... .to a person who does not have BPD.  What she heard in that instance was "I am blaming you for being a bad communicator, YOU need to learn to communicate better."   So, she bristled, got angry, needed to avoid any responsibility for it, and then turn it onto you to manage her emotions by taking the blame away from her.

After 10 years of this site, I would have tried to say, "You're right, that was a rough time, and decisions are often hard to make, but time ran short and one had to be made.  In the future, we both now have a better idea what such a decision could mean.  That will help next time we face something like that." 

Granted, if I am tired, sick, or just in a bad mood myself, all of that is likely to go out the window and I will end up JADEing until the shouting starts and then I will mentally smack myself in the forehead, "dang it, I made it worse, he was in a place where he wanted a fight to be able to vent, not a place where I can speak openly and freely."  No communication is perfect and there will always be flare-ups.  How you manage yourself is all you can control, and all you can work on.

One thing to try, you know she is emotionally disordered.  This means you can try to not let jabs and slights hurt.  If an angry toddler screams "I hate you," do you believe it and take it to heart?  Or a drunk person?  BPD makes people drunk on emotions.  You can disregard and not react to a LOT of what is said - it takes practice, and I have a small mantra "this is the BPD, this is his low blood sugar, if I react, it just makes it grow, if I am vanilla pudding and respond blandly, it can help it die down."  Their emotions feed off of ours.  Being polite, caring, but bland can help kill that fire a bit until your "real" wife returns from BPD-land.