I’m at a Loss, Need Help: Ongoing Silent Rage

[2Loyal2Long]

It’s been two weeks of silent treatment, uBPDh is still refusing to communicate.  He went home to his parents two years ago (left in a spiteful rage) and we’ve been separated since..He didn’t divorce me.  I never wanted a divorce and just recently learned about the trauma bond.  This has been the most wretched experience of my life.

I need some encouragement.  I had my own extinction burst on Friday, I’m not proud of the voicemail I left.  I hate to say it but I unwittingly handed over control of our marriage to him long ago because I knew nothing about this disorder.  The silent treatment is how he gets control and punishes.

The abuse cycle is entrenched behavior.  Is there any way for me to set boundaries and reverse this behavior or is it too late?  I finally got with a therapist who treats BPD’s and she identified his behavior as BPD with narcissistic abuse.  She treats BPD’s and those affected by the abuse, she told me she sees this all the time.

I do love the person but hate the behavior.  I have compassion but I have to set boundaries, this has destroyed my health slowly over the years.  I was slowly conditioned to the abuse and since his behavior is identical to my mother’s behavior during my childhood it appeared normal to me.  Now that I know what I’ve been through I’m trying to help myself.  I’m literally waking up from a nightmare.  I know I can only change myself and I’m working a 12-step program as well to handle the lack of boundaries that got me caught in this trauma bond.

I’ve never been one to be dishonest but it’s been suggested I just have “other plans” whenever he tries to reinstate communication.  It can’t be a healthy relationship if he has all control and I don’t want to play games.  He’s seen a therapist for the last year and there’s been no change in his behavior, I’m convinced he’s manipulated his therapist and she’s been recruited as an enabler.

I’m at my wits end but finally ended attempts at reconnecting yesterday.  Other than focusing on my own life, what next?  He’s a beautiful person when he’s stable but that’s not often since cohabiting with his parents destroyed what progress he’d made.

I have a feeling what I’d hoped for with him will never happen:  an adult relationship.  At the very least, for now, how do I handle a situation where he controls all access to communication without playing games?

I found out way too late what his disorder is and I have a feeling too much damage has been done to reverse this.

Kind feedback appreciated.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

hi 2Loyal2Long,

i was just reading on your back story.

It’s been two weeks of silent treatment, uBPDh is still refusing to communicate.  He went home to his parents two years ago (left in a spiteful rage) and we’ve been separated since..

do i have it right that youve been separated for two years, and not speaking for two weeks?

what is it, do you think, that led up to each of these circumstances? did he give any explanation?

[2Loyal2Long]

Yes, two years.  I hung onto every false promise and up until recently didn’t know it was his way of controlling the relationship and keeping me from divorcing.  I held onto false hope.  I was in shock the first year he was gone but he maintained contact and anytime he got too close for comfort he’d create chaos to create distance via stonewalling.  It’s been an effective way for him to have his space (fear of engulfment) and avoid me giving up (his fear of abandonment).  I’m just learning about BPD and my therapist confirmed my suspicions and said the silent treatment is a form of narcissistic abuse.

I never wanted divorce.  Our biggest fights (which generally result in him running home to his parents and stonewalling) were always because of me pushing the issue for him to make up his mind about the marriage.  He drags his feet and says he doesn’t know what he wants, sometimes he wants divorce and then he thinks “what the hell am I doing?”.  He’s ambivalent.  And because his parents financially support him, along with SSDI for a bipolar diagnosis which I never felt was a correct diagnosis, as long as I tolerate his behavior (in hopes he’ll come to his senses) he doesn’t have to make a decision.  It’s a hopeless mess but I’m starting to come out of this hazy fog and see it for what it is.  It’s emotional abuse.

We do great when we’re together, we knew each other as friends for five years before dating, but he gets in a paranoid, twisted fear about living together and his parents’ enabling behavior keeps him from having to make a decision, he’s supported.  Let’s face it, I’ve enabled and tolerated the behavior because he’s got some wonderful qualities (and this was the same type of relationship I had with my mother growing up so it registered in my brain as normal until I became conditioned to the abuse and hopeless repetition compulsion cycle) but my optimism and beliefs against divorce kept me hanging in to try and fix things.  It’s been like going through an emotional blender on high speed.

Yes, it’s a nightmare and horribly unhealthy.  We went to MC after MC and he would go for the first several sessions and then ghost.  Whenever he did come back to MC sessions the therapist would walk around the proverbial pink elephant and not confront his behavior (of course he never called and canceled, I went alone while he stonewalled both me and the therapist).  In 2011 I confronted a therapist when I asked if she was going to address the behavior and she snapped and told me I wasn’t going to tell her how to run her practice.  I told her she was being manipulated and he just sat there and watched the show as she ripped into me.  This therapist also confessed to having an affair while being a Sunday School teacher and ultimately married her affair partner.  I’ve met more than my share of sick therapists.

He’d said in October he wanted to reconcile and we were (well, I was at least) working towards a move home date of this December.  I said we needed to sit down and discuss this with his therapist and he stalled.  I was adamant and when we got there I found out he hadn’t discussed this decision with her at all.

He never intended to move home.  His engulfment fears are too great or he simply doesn’t want me to move on.  But I’m a hair’s breadth of letting him go altogether.  My head is clearing.

It’s awful and it’s embarrassing to admit how long I’ve tolerated the abuse.  I saw a link on here about caregiver syndrome and breaking the cycle.  I’ll probably be getting the book.  Something snapped inside me Saturday and I can’t turn back.  I won’t tolerate this treatment even if he is sick and this is his go-to method of coping.  I have hypertensive crisis from years of emotional abuse.  I’m to the point I want to end the marriage and rebuild my life.  I can’t go through this again.

There you have it, I hope this provides background.  I ask for having a marriage and he stonewalls after we fight.  This last round started because I asked him to spend a Saturday night and he accused me of pushing.  After a two year separation I don’t see how asking to spend a night together is pushing.  He said, “We’ll see how it goes,” with that childish, spiteful tone he gets when he wants all control.  The following day I retracted the offer (I’d never done that before) and he said, “Because you don’t think I’ll show up?” and I said yes.  He’s notorious for saying he’ll come in so we can have time together and then doesn’t show . . . enter the stonewalling because I got into a cycle of calling to find out what happened and then he refuses to answer.  When he does finally talk he’ll say he started thinking and got scared.  This cycle would mess with anyone’s mind.  It’s my anger at his treatment that fueled me to demand answers.  It’s sickening.  As I look at it now, I’ve disrespected myself terribly.  I never once believed I didn’t deserve better but that ‘in sickness and in health’  part made it hard to divorce.  He’s either sick (and he is, I believe) or he just manipulates to have his cake and eat it too.  He doesn’t stay in for marital relations, that died off years ago.  Sex was on his terms as well.

Thanks for listening, kind feedback appreciated.  I don’t expect coddling, just keep in mind this is already horribly painful but my resolve to change myself is what brought me here.

[once removed]

what led up to him leaving (his words)? did he give any reason?

i understand the pain and frustration.

the specifics are really important, in terms of how we can best support you, and try to help you get the relationship to steadier ground.

its obvious he is conflicted. its obvious you are as well.

we need to better understand what is driving the conflict.

[2Loyal2Long]

Here’s more background, I hope it helps.  Thank you for trying to help, this is so isolating.  I’m tired and this is really long.

I started a new job in 2016 about the time he was dealing with a lot of change at work.  It was the beginning of a downhill slide.  He got depressed and angry, I was in a very intense period on my new job.  I couldn’t be the emotional support he needed.  Conflict began.  Neither of us could give to the other, we were both drained.

In February 2017 I left on a business trip for a week.  My last day there I got a gut feeling something was wrong with him.  I had someone check on him and his vehicle was at home and he wasn’t answering the phone or the door.  No one could get him to respond.

He finally answered the phone before I got on the plane to return home.  I asked when he last went to work and he said, “I don’t remember.”  It’s his typical avoidance response, his go-to.  At this time the diagnosis was bipolar and everything seemed fine when he drove me to the airport to leave for my business trip.  He never went back to work again, he abandoned his job.  That was nearly three years ago.

His P thought he was cycling due to bipolar.  He lost his job, went to IOP for several months, and his anger outbursts got frequent when he was confronted in sessions.  His P suggested disability income for the time being and my world sank.  I gave pushback and said he does better when he’s working and I knew that if he gave up altogether it would get worse.  It did.

After eight months of him doing nothing I’d had it.  I tried to get him into vocational training, I fought the disability income process, and he started lying about trying to get a job (I found out later).  He wasn’t about to lose the chance at a carefree life.

I know this sounds harsh but I didn’t know what I was dealing with so I pushed to get him back into life and he spent too many of his non-working hours with his parents who didn’t like me taking their boy for my husband.  They could offer him the Peter Pan lifestyle I could not.

Money got tight, the city flooded, he had heart surgery, the Central AC had to be replaced, a pet had emergency surgery, and $8,000 further in debt I was angry coming home to a husband in boxer shorts with a smartphone in one hand and the remote control in the other.  All these crises happened back to back within a two month period, three took place within one week.  Everything was out of control.  I was sick of carrying us both and he rarely took initiative on any home chores.  I look back and feel awful that I didn’t handle things with more compassion.  He’d just had heart surgery but after eight months of playing wife, husband, mom, dad, landscaper, bread winner, housekeeper, I was imploding.  Hindsight won’t change anything but God I could kick myself.  Not a proud time in my life.

I spoke to his P and said I was ready to give him an ultimatum, either he started moving forward with his life or go home to his parents (I was obviously suffering from temporary insanity).  His P thought a few days with his parents would snap him back into reality (God, he’s a doctor, didn’t he know better?).  I regret the ultimatum but I was at my wits end.

He left in late 2017 and within six weeks of being back around his parents he changed for the worst.  Deep depression, quit basic hygiene, my heart broke every time I saw him which wasn’t very frequently.

He didn’t move out, he ran out.  He was angry at being backed into a corner and at me for expecting him to behave as an adult.

I still didn’t know about BPD.

We’ve tried to heal but whenever we’re progressing he digs his heels in and stalls.  He likes his carefree life and because I miss the man I married, whenever he chooses to see me I take the scraps offered on his terms and don’t know how to set boundaries with someone who holds the key as to whether or not he ever moves home.

In 2018 I was ready (I thought) to divorce.  I thought it would fix things (I was sick of the back and forth).  Two days after I told him I was finished he called and, in the sweetest voice, said, “If you still want to I’m really willing to try this time.”  I think he was scared I was going to file and actually I was ready to.

Once he regained his footing in the relationship the come close/go away cycle was back.  I could have screamed.  It’s just his cycle to keep me from ending the marriage and not coming into the marriage fully.  I have no clue how to break the cycle, I can refuse to see him when he wants to but that deprives me as well.  I’m like a worn out rubber band, I’m about to snap my own mental health if there’s any left.

And I do love him, his baseline is a beautiful thing.  It’s just very infrequent and it’s heartbreaking.

There’s much love between us, when he feels safe enough to come close, but since his folks provide an exit and enough money for him to survive (his disability income was also approved in 2018) he’s got no motivation to move home.  I literally feel like a puppet.  His parents enable him terribly and I don’t know what boundaries to set to shift things.

We do well together when we spend time together, then when I push for him to come home he holds the cards and fights ensue, then he goes back home to his folks and punishes me with silence.

If he could have a marriage that meets only his needs and I never complained about my altruistic martyrdom caregiving (sarcasm intended) we’d be fine.  That’s not a fair statement from me, he can be very giving and show compassion but his core self is mostly very childish when he’s pushed to cohabit in this marriage.

There was a forensic P study done 2 1/2 years ago and he registered at grade school level on emotional development and processing.  Six months ago he finally told me he abandoned his job in 2017 as a big F you to me to spite me after I left town.  Someone recently suggested he may have felt abandoned when I took my business trip, it was the second one in just over five weeks’ time.  I don’t know if he was upset because I’d landed a great opportunity and he was feeling bad about himself or what.  I do remember he started questioning what he was doing in his life because for the first time in ages I was really happy with my career.  I saw the jealousy from him increase.  As I look back I wonder if he abandoned his job to create a crisis to pull me down.  It did.  I was scrambling to get him help when I got back into town.  It nearly screwed my job.

Keep asking questions and I’ll answer what I can.  I really appreciate the help, no one understands his behavior, not even previous individual T’s or MC’s.  I currently have a new T who said this sounds like BPD with NC abuse.

I never thought it was bipolar, ever.  He received that Dx in 2014.  BPD seems more likely.

Have I contributed to his problems?  Yes, knowingly and unknowingly.  There’s no love loss between me and his parents.  I’ve tried to get him on his feet since they sold off the family business that they used to keep him under their thumb and to help him separate emotionally and financially from them.  They hate me for trying to help him grow up and function in the adult world.  I’m not aiming for sainthood, I promise.  I’m exhausted physically and emotionally.

A friend told me in 2008 she ran into my MIL.  She tried to engage MIL about how we were friends, etc, and MIL kept looking away, changing the topic and wouldn’t discuss me.  My friend was aghast.  She told me she was afraid I’d never truly have a marriage until his parents passed.  That was 11 years ago and she’s turned out to be right.  That umbilical cord couldn’t be cut with a chainsaw.

He and I met in AA.  Same sobriety date and knew each other five years before dating, we’d been casual friends up until dating even though he pursued me on and off.  Sobriety came first, I refused dating anyone for years and didn’t have time back then.  I’ve got over 21 years now, he’s got 11.  He drank one night in 2008 and started over the next day.  This is his fourth marriage and it’s my only marriage.  I wrote off his previous marriages to alcoholism and he worked a good program back then.  He tried to push quickly in the beginning and talked about marriage our first week of dating, I know now that was a red flag but back then I told him to slow down.  It frustrated him that I wanted to take things slower.  I just didn’t know marrying him meant unstable mood swings, relationship control, fears of engulfment and abandonment, and I didn’t know his parents insisted on having him for their husband.  He was very insecure in the beginning, afraid I’d cheat on him, afraid I’d quit my job and he’d be our sole support, and he was afraid I’d leave him at some point.  I had no clue why he was so insecure.  I’ve always been the more responsible type and cheating isn’t in my vocabulary.  I have strong beliefs and values.

So there’s a lot of factors involved.  He’s the only one in his family to pursue recovery, he does see a T and a P and is compliant with meds.  Let’s just say I didn’t know his parents came with the marriage and they’d undermine efforts for him to be a grownup.

So how do I handle boundary setting with a stonewaller who lives with his elderly mom and, for all practical purposes, has the upper hand?  Ultimatums don’t work.  I love a broken person but I’m trying to work on myself right now, whether or not I ever hear from him again.  I know my lack of boundaries from the beginning and not understanding he has mental health concerns has made things worse.

I saw him briefly Christmas night, gave him a small gift, he gave me a quick kiss . . . and the stonewalling picked up where he’d left off.  And we’re now into week three of the silent treatment.  This has pushed every button in me.

Why is he still giving me the silent treatment?

Because he was kind Christmas night and I called him the day after Christmas.  I’m guessing he felt I was pushing (yeah, I miss him, duh) and he’s still in his shell from the words we had from several weeks ago.  I had asked him to spend the night and when I heard the spiteful child in his tone I retracted the offer the next day because 70% of the time I ask to spend time with him he starts ‘thinking’ and gets in fear of all the horrible outcomes.  He’s told me he’s afraid to come home and I don’t know if he’s afraid I’ll expect him to do more than he can or if his sure deal with mom is just too much to give up.

I don’t understand how he thinks.  I don’t understand his fears.  I can’t rationalize with him.  I try to help and it makes things worse.  He says at times he’s not trying to hurt me, he just shuts down from fear.  I don’t understand, it makes no sense to me and I’ve obsessively blamed the parental interference.  I’ve made things worse and I’m angry at all the therapists that missed this.  This is something they ought to be able to understand, ya think?

I have no clue.

Thank you kindly, I’ve never seen such kindness until finding this site.  I’ve struggled alone for 16 years.

And please forgive the length and rambling.  I’m exhausted so I lost my ability to be concise.

[2Loyal2Long]

Looks like I’m going to switch boards.  I saw him at a 12-step meeting Wednesday night and tried to get an answer out of him as to why he’s shut me out these last three weeks.  His response?  “I was trying to give you a message.”  I knew what he meant.  I told him if he wanted a divorce then he could file, I didn’t run out on the marriage.

He was smug and spiteful, reminded me more of narcissistic behavior.  Since he refused to talk privately I just aired our dirty laundry there in front of everyone after the meeting.  I could see his shame but he was cornered.  I hate to say it but after the years of emotional abuse I’ve been subjected to I honestly didn’t feel bad for him.  His shame told me everything I needed to know, he’s perfectly aware of what he’s been doing.  He’s recruited a few flying monkeys that tried to back him up so I made sure they heard a side of it he’d never given them.

It makes no difference to me now.  I realized he never really loved me, he’s too sick to know what love is.

Thanks for your support.  See you all on a different board.  There’s nothing to save here.

[once removed]

hi 2L2L,

the details you gave help a lot. theyre clear and concise.

theres clearly a lot going on here, and there has been for a while.

the first real step to Bettering a relationship or Reversing a breakup is to stop the bleeding or "stop making things worse".

your frustration, particularly in this situation where you have been separated for two years, is more than understandable. youre at your wits end. i would be too.

at the same time, its not serving you or the situation.

so there are a few things here to assess.

the first is whether the relationship is reconcilable or dead. its hard to know for sure from my position. its probably harder to know when youre in the midst of it.

personally, i hesitate to say that its dead, or this would have been over at least a year ago. as i said, you are both conflicted. there is push/pull on both sides that you are both caught up in, that is making either path more blurry.

so if you believe the relationship is reconcilable, and you want that to happen, its going to require a change in mindset and tactics. its going to require stopping the bleeding. its going to require not pushing for reconciliation too hard too soon, or reacting emotionally, as frustrating as things are.

there are self (and relationship) defeating things you are doing, and have acknowledged. those things arent going to help you if you split. but they arent going to help you reconcile either.

so my question is, search your heart. do you want to reconcile? do you want to split? are you not sure either way? are you prepared to do what it takes to commit to whichever path you choose?

[2Loyal2Long]

Thank you so much, Once Removed.  I appreciate your reply.

I’m not even sure how I feel right now.  He seems to hold all control to communication and contact.  The cycle is entrenched by years of the pattern.  The silent treatment hurts beyond belief but finding out last night he was using it to break me so I’d file divorce struck me as incredibly childish on his part.  If he doesn’t want to come back then why doesn’t he just file?  That’s my first question.

He said he wanted to reconcile and move home back in October, then he got “too afraid” (he’s portrayed me as a monster).  The truth is when his elderly father walked out on his mother and he thought his brother was going to move their mom and sell the land he was terrified of having no place to go.  I feel duped by his sweetness (“I love you and want to come home”).  We were discussing where we were going to put some of the things he’s acquired these last two years and I thought he was being real this time.  My Alanon sponsor told me she was afraid once his mother dug her heels in and refused to move that he wouldn’t be moving home.

I feel used.  God it hurts.  For him to go from sweet and loving to spiteful and childish is mind blowing.  When I asked him last night in front of his sponsor what kind of man says he wants to reconcile and then yanks the rug out he said, verbatim, “I was stupid to think I could ever live with you.”  I guess that’s code language for “I didn’t need you as my backup plan anymore, get lost.”  I promise you, we were getting along terrifically when his “fear” of living together came out of the blue.  Nothing had happened that lead up to that other than him securing a roof over his head with his mom and I guess he was backed into a corner and needed a way out by blaming me.  I hadn’t done anything, to my knowledge, to make him afraid.  I’d asked on a couple of occasions if he was really going to move home because he’s got a pattern of saying one thing and doing another, i.e., not following through.  I don’t know if I came across as overbearing in his mind or not.  Truly, his mind is a dark place that I cannot possibly begin to understand.

What am I willing to commit to?  I don’t even know right now.  I think he wants me to divorce him so he can fulfill his prophesy and get others to feel sorry for him.  I’ll probably go into the pile of his exes who were all completely evil and totally at fault (sarcasm intended).  He’s always complained about his exes and when I’ve asked what his part was in the breakdown of previous relationships it turns into a blender of circular conversations.  He takes no accountability.  He says with us we’re both at fault but he says his only part was being stupid enough to marry me, that’s a way to blame me.  He’s told me in the past he was afraid if he didn’t marry me he’d lose me.  I believe that’s closer to the truth but it’s not a healthy reason to marry.

What is required of me to ‘stay in’ and stop the damage, stop the bleeding?  How do I cope with the God awful reality that he maintains all control over contact and will continue to keep us apart, on his terms?  I feel like a controlled puppet.  How do I set boundaries with a husband who refuses to live with me and doesn’t have to make a decision because he’s enabled and supported by his family?  I’m the odd man out.

If I divorce how do I accept the pain and reality that what I’d hoped for (a mutually beneficial relationship) is dead and gone?  I would have stood by him through anything as long as he was trying to better himself.  I don’t believe he wants to change and loves having all control.  His therapist has become one of his enabling, flying monkeys as well.

I have a faith in God that has been tested over and over again.  I have some solace in knowing I’m loved by a God who loved the very people He created, even when we rejected Him and nailed Him to a cross.

But I’m not God.  I don’t have the skills to love unconditionally when I’m being manipulated by a sick person with enough flying monkeys to believe his lies and support him in his self justification.

I’m at a loss.  And I’m so exhausted.

Changing oneself and my own reactions is not easy but I’ve committed myself to Alanon.  Since I’ve been back to the program I’ve met many who’ve fought through to change their own behavior.  Sometimes their loved one changes in response, sometimes they don’t.  Ultimately the driving force that determines whether someone stays and works the program is if at some point they decide to stay and change for themselves and no longer care what their loved one does.  It’s hard, but I’m committed to stay and work the steps this time.

Anyway, if you could tell me what’s involved with either route I choose (stay and tolerate, or divorce and continue to work on myself) I’d greatly appreciate it.  All the tools I’ve found discuss how to deal with a BPD still actively involved in the non’s life.  He’s far removed.  If I stop contact and wait him out, how do I handle it if he ever reaches out?

I’m tired of ultimatums but one thing I thought of if he ever stabilizes and reaches out is to let him know that unless he gets with a DBT therapist and moves home that I will not be a part of his life.  It’s a boundary for me because the status quo of his roller coaster is killing me, literally.  I doubt seriously it’s healthy for him either.

Feedback greatly appreciated, thank you for your kind coaching.  I just don’t have experience with this.  And I appreciate that you caught onto the fact that if I don’t change I’m reducing a chance at a reconciliation and will probably attract another borderline in the future if I don’t change.  Your thoughtful insight means a lot as I’m trying to look at my own contributions to the problems.  I do play a part.  If he wants a divorce I don’t understand why he doesn’t just go for it.  Why all the games?

[once removed]

I think he wants me to divorce him so he can fulfill his prophesy and get others to feel sorry for him. 

What is required of me to ‘stay in’ and stop the damage, stop the bleeding?

i wonder if, on some level, you are sick of being in limbo, and pushing the situation to where its make or break...he either comes back, or takes the step of ending it.

and i can understand why. its a heartbreaking situation youre in. its a confusing one.

Our biggest fights (which generally result in him running home to his parents and stonewalling) were always because of me pushing the issue for him to make up his mind about the marriage.

but pushing one way or the other is a self fulfilling prophecy in its own right. it has you feeling in a corner, and upping the ante to get the desired result, and that desired result shifts.

We’ve tried to heal but whenever we’re progressing he digs his heels in and stalls.

We do well together when we spend time together, then when I push for him to come home he holds the cards and fights ensue, then he goes back home to his folks and punishes me with silence.

there are a lot of layers when it comes to whats going on between the two of you.

there is the original conflict that led to him moving out. it sounds like things were coming to a head for a while. its an important part of the equation.

there is a complicated dynamic going on with him and his parents, as well as with you and his parents. its also an important part of the equation.

there is the long term and the short term of what is going on between the two of you.

i want to focus for right now a bit more on the short term. thats primarily what stopping the bleeding entails. not letting things get worse. getting out of the cycle. getting things on a healthier trajectory.

it sounds like the cycle right now is the two of you get closer and you push for more. he retreats. you threaten to blow things up. he retreats even further.

regaining a relationship...bringing him home...moving into more relationship secure territory. these are long term goals that require a long game approach.

with every time that the two of you have gotten closer, then blown up, trust has deteriorated, reconciliation has become harder.

to resolve this in the short term, i think, is going to require that you not react emotionally, and not push either way. and when i say short term, i mean in the perspective of a two year separation, not necessarily for a short amount of time. its one thing to acknowledge that this situation is extraordinarily unfair, and to hurt, and to feel and think even well beyond that. but confronting him and airing his dirty laundry at his 12 step meeting is not a constructive, marriage repairing move.

but its going to require more than that. it will require that the two of you have a consistent number of positive interactions that remind you of your love for each other, and then waiting for that seed to grow into more. that means if the two of you meet up, or speak, and it goes well, that you not push for or expect more, but build on it as you can, and wait. because he will have second thoughts and doubts. given that these are unusual circumstances and you have been separated for two years, that would be more expected than a means to toy with your feelings.

i dont mean to put it in light or simplistic terms. its a very, very tall order, and i understand you are at your wits end. seeing any positive development followed by a retreat, i can only imagine how frustrating that is. there are things that you can do that may seriously improve the dynamic and your odds.

but you have to weigh that against your commitment to do so, where you are at in terms of stay or go, and also where he is at, which may be the hardest thing of all to gauge. it will take months, maybe more than that, of consistent improvement (and by consistent improvement, i do not mean to suggest that there wont be ups and downs or him getting closer then retreating; both of you will likely test each other) and a healthier trajectory before the chances are good.

what do you think?

[2Loyal2Long]

Hi Once Removed, thank you for your insightful thoughts.

I haven’t learned excerpts so here goes:

Yes, this limbo has taken a toll on me for a very long time.  It’s his MO and what works for him.  It doesn’t work for me which is why I kept trying to force him off the fence.  That doesn’t work either.  If any divorce takes place it will be my doing.  He won’t take the action.  In the past he’s said he’s “just lazy”.  I’d give anything to know what he really means because I doubt “lazy” is the truth.

Like I said, he likes being married and wants to live in his parents backyard and visit me when he feels like it.  Keep in mind his parents don’t want their grown son leaving their side so they’ve done their share of poisoning him against me.  That’s not a marriage, it’s an arrangement (for him).  I didn’t have boundaries back then and the situation slowly evolved and I became conditioned to the abusiveness over time.  He claimed his demands in the family business were why we had a commuter marriage (the business ceased to exist in 2013).  At one point he finally came clean and said he married me because he was afraid he’d lose me otherwise (hostage taking).  The truth is, he’s too afraid to get close because of his distorted thinking and his parents proximity puts his abandonment fears to rest.  He’s had me at his beck and call (I didn’t know better and it’s a deeply entrenched behavior now), it puts his engulfment fears to rest too.

I aired his parental dependency and failure to live with his wife as a means of being hurtful.  16 years of emotional abuse came out.  I didn’t rage at him but I did confront him.  Yes, others were around.  I’d asked to speak with him privately and he stated, “Yeah but I won’t get in your car.”  Any private discussion we’ve ever had during times like this generally were in my vehicle or his.  He made that statement in front of others, it was to make me appear dangerous.  It doesn’t matter now, I found out that night he’d begun the smear campaign already.  I was surprised but shouldn’t have been.  He lies a lot.  What I did wasn’t helpful or sane, it was calculated retribution.  I’m not proud of my behavior but it did get me answers I needed.  The shame was written on his face, he’s embarrassed about his dependency on his parents and doesn’t want others to know he doesn’t live with his wife.  The stonewalling has been to punish me.  I needed to know.

And now?  I chose to stop contacting him.  His silence and not knowing why was deafening and incredibly disempowering and painful to the core.  I’ve made it through the hardest part.  This is Day 7 of NC on my part, I’m feeling stronger and more peaceful.  Tomorrow marks the start of week five of the silent treatment from him.  I chose to stop sticking my finger in a live socket, it hurt every time I did it and fed his illness.  I chose to do this to take care of me.  It’s helping tremendously.  He can’t punish me if I don’t play.

I also wrote out my own boundaries in case he ever reaches out but I’m not counting on hearing from him.  They are all “I” statements.  I ran them past my Alanon sponsor and got a thumbs up.  It’s about what I won’t tolerate in a relationship.  I can’t support his illness any longer.  It’s destroyed me.

I don’t much think I’ll be hearing from him.  I’m strongly considering divorce, to set myself free.  It’s not about him anymore.

A therapist told me (and she treats BPD for a living and family members who’ve been subjected to their abuse) that as long as his enablers remain in place (and his individual therapist is one of them, we met with her twice and I immediately picked up that he’d manipulated her and she fell for it) he has no motivation to change.  I believe she’s right.  And I’m not waiting around for his parents to die so I can be his caretaker.  I do love him, but I love myself too.

On a side note, I did speak with someone last night with a family member with dBPD.  I was told that, yes, they can and do manipulate therapists so this disorder is not correctly diagnosed or treated and that they are masters at convincing others we’re crazy, even hospital emergency room staff.  At that point I knew he is definitely BPD.  It’s all the same.

In the meantime I’ve located a Family Connections group near me, offered by NEABPD.  I’m going to need support from others.  I also started reading Kreger’s book.  I’m taking the reading slowly, as suggested.  It’s a lot to take in.

Thoughts and insight appreciated.

[once removed]

Like I said, he likes being married and wants to live in his parents backyard and visit me when he feels like it.

yes. but why is that the preferred arrangement.

is it a power move? is it laziness, as he says? is it, as you suggest, a reflection of an entrenched pattern over years?

the truth may be somewhere in between.

divorces can certainly be dragged out over years. youve likely heard the stories (some of them here). divorce is, to put it lightly, a pain in the ass, an enormous ordeal. sometimes people stay, or separate, for that reason. sometimes the reasons are more complicated. sometimes theres something theyre getting from the relationship. sometimes its because they arent prepared to leave.

the fact is, if it has anything to do with the latter two, and you want to salvage the marriage, then something remains that can be worked with.

the cycle may be entrenched by years of the pattern - and so that will take a lot of time and effort to undo.

i read in another thread that the two of you have been in contact. whats going on?

[2Loyal2Long]

Hi OR, thanks for your insight!

It was never the preferred arrangement, at least it wasn’t my decision.  The arrangement evolved that way due to his family business and a very enmeshed FOO of his.  It also serves his fear of abandonment (his mom is who he clings to) and serves his fear of engulfment (he doesn’t “lose” himself in me by keeping space and geographical distance between us,  he has a deep fear of being suffocated in relationships).  I hope that makes sense.  It serves both purposes, I’ve shown him I’m steady and not bailing on him.  Good for him, lonely for me.

Running home to the folks was a) a way to avoid responsibility I was imposing on him to go back to work (the family business folded in 2012/2013) and b) my lack of knowledge that he truly did have a disability that stressed him incredibly trying to regulate his emotions out in the workforce.

It’s the “If only I had known,” hindsight.  His dad moved away last October and left his mom.  She keeps an umbilical cord around his neck and with my incessant pushing to get the marriage back on track it’s pushed him further into his tortoise shell.  His mom doesn’t want him to leave her and keeps him comfy so there hasn’t been any motivation for him to make a decision.  I can’t exactly force him to come home and ultimatums don’t work well on this disorder.  We all know that.

His staying there is more of the latter, highly entrenched behavior.  I’m not sure what exactly will turn that around, either me appearing “safer” as I work on myself or his mother’s passing, whichever comes first.

Yes, we’re finally in contact and I’ve listened to your suggestions and haven’t pushed.  I’m taking it slower.  We are meeting for coffee tomorrow and both have separate plans afterwards so I believe that helps him feel less confined.  After over a month of the silent treatment this is enormous progress.

When I first landed on this site I had shamed him horribly and, basically, got what I deserved.  I do forgive myself though, hurt people hurt people.  However, I’ve learned more this last month or so and am working to implement new tools and validation where it’s appropriate.  Even though I was sick of the emotional abuse (through his actions) I still had no right to shame him.

All of you have taught me so much and I have more compassion that he’s doing the best he can with what he has.  So am I.  And I’m determined to stop the bleeding.  Thank goodness you chimed in early on.  I needed the voice of reason and that’s what I receive from those of you who have much, much more experience.

I saw your update and someone else’s comment on my other post, I’ll chime in later tonight.  I’m heading to an Alanon meeting.

It’s crazy to say, but this man is a blessing to me.  Without him crossing my life path I’d never have had the incentive to stretch and grow like this.

As DBT would say, there’s a lot of truth to things he’s been telling me for years but I didn’t understand his language.  I’m starting to.

Thank goodness for this site and all you wonderful people sharing your experiences and insights.  I am truly blessed.

I’ll update my other thread later.  Thanks Once Removed!  You hit every nail squarely on the head.