Big mistake

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

What I mean, is to keep the friendship and to perhaps have a sexual relationship but nothing serious and without any expectations that it could ever go anywhere.

 

How is parenting going with your first "BPDish" ex?

Am I correct in assuming that it is going well... .something you are looking to replicate with another person... .or are at least open to the possibility of doing it again?

FF

[formflier]

What I mean, is to keep the friendship and to perhaps have a sexual relationship but nothing serious and without any expectations that it could ever go anywhere.

 

How is parenting going with your first "BPDish" ex?

Am I correct in assuming that it is going well... .something you are looking to replicate with another person... .or are at least open to the possibility of doing it again?

FF

[Veryconfuseduk32]

How is parenting going with your first "BPDish" ex?

Am I correct in assuming that it is going well... .something you are looking to replicate with another person... .or are at least open to the possibility of doing it again?

FF

It's not the best situation and I'm not looking to replicate it. Which is why I am going to be as careful as possible to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[formflier]

 Without going into detail, I was doing as much as possible to ensure that there was no pregnancy... . 

Details are ok... this is an anonymous board.  

Since you were "doing as much as possible" to make sure there was no pregnancy... .am I correct in assuming you were wearing a condom... perhaps using a spermicide as well?  Perhaps I misread some of your earlier posts

FF

[Veryconfuseduk32]

Details are ok... this is an anonymous board.  

Since you were "doing as much as possible" to make sure there was no pregnancy... .am I correct in assuming you were wearing a condom... perhaps using a spermicide as well?  Perhaps I misread some of your earlier posts

FF

As much as possible without using protection as she told me she "didn't like it". Now, there's no chance whatsoever I will be having sex with her without a condom. A pregnancy is something I don't want to happen with anyone at this point in my life, regardless of whether they're emotionally stable or not.

[Cat Familiar]

Well, you may be able to have sex with her and "keep it casual", but from a woman's perspective, I think it's unlikely that she won't start becoming "bonded" to you if this becomes an habitual pattern. And people with BPD can express their "bonds" quite differently than healthy normal people: e.g. suicide threats, which you've already experienced.

I would suggest you learn about oxytocin, a hormone that is released during orgasm, and even during hugging. It causes "attachment" and is particularly present in the first six months of romantic relationships, i.e. "the honeymoon phase."  https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/275795.php

It is also present during childbirth and breastfeeding and it facilitates a bond between mother and newborn baby and can create social bonds in groups.

Now you may think you can get away with what author Erica Jong entitled "the zipless f*ck" but the reality is that having sex releases this hormone and establishes a bond between people. Perhaps it can be an ephemeral bond for you, but perhaps it wouldn't be for her. Michael Douglas's character in Fatal Attraction believed he could have consequence-free sex with Glen Close's character, having no idea that she would turn into a psycho bunny boiler.

I'm certainly not saying that she might do anything that extreme, but you've already experienced her suicide ideations. Please think very clearly about what you are entering into. For you to contemplate returning to any sort of relationship with her after what you've already experienced indicates to me that the sex must have been really memorable.  

[formflier]

 A pregnancy is something I don't want to happen with anyone at this point in my life, regardless of whether they're emotionally stable or not.

So... no pregnancy is important to you, especially since you have been there before.

Why not skip the sex?  Or the part of sexual activity that can lead to pregnancy?  


Hey... listen.  This is an anonymous board, we are here to help you "choose a path" and to sort out conflicted feelings that you have... .feelings you have for very obvious reasons.

Many times people with very obvious reasons to have conflicted feelings also have "reasons" (for being conflicted and confused) that are not so obvious to them.   Many times we can help people "see" that and they are able to reflect on why they "do that" and many times they will elect to change that behavior... and vastly improve their life.

Behavior change in our-self is usually most successful because you don't have to convince anyone else, once you "see" it and you "want" to change... the only person you have to contend with is you.

So... .here is what I see... .and I'm hoping you can reflect on this and fill in some blanks.

I suspect the way you talk to (I know... .you are really writing) us is much the same way you talk to yourself.  It's likely much the same way you "convince" yourself that (fill in the blank) is ok.

So... .grab something cool to drink, take some time to read this entire post a few times... .and watch for your "communication style" of saying you are doing "everything possible" to avoid (something disastrous)... .then there is the implicit thought that since I'm doing everything possible to avoid disaster... I'm ok to proceed.

Yet... .the least amount of probing reveals "everything possible" means everything except (this) and (that) and a bunch of other things commonly accepted to prevent (whatever the disastrous thing is).

You've been burned by this BPDish thing a few times in your life and what concerns me is I see very little apparent change in your life and your way of "dealing with" BPDish people that is "commonly accepted" to be effective in "dealing with" BPDish people.  

I get it... .this is fresh for you... and obviously confusing.

Can you spend some time reading this thread a few times... with an eye towards what I have described here... and then share your thoughts?

FF

[Veryconfuseduk32]

Well, you may be able to have sex with her and "keep it casual", but from a woman's perspective, I think it's unlikely that she won't start becoming "bonded" to you if this becomes an habitual pattern. And people with BPD can express their "bonds" quite differently than healthy normal people: e.g. suicide threats, which you've already experienced.

That's certainly my concern, I do like her and wouldn't want to hurt her by leading her to think it would be something more. She did hurt me in a big way last time, especially as she was sleeping with other people... .although I suppose from her perspective she felt as though she loved/was in love with all of the people she was sleeping with. It wasn't ever just sex.

I know I can't do it without having some feelings for her. I just know there's a limit as to how far I can allow those feelings to go. I can't get caught up as I did before.

I'm certainly not saying that she might do anything that extreme, but you've already experienced her suicide ideations. Please think very clearly about what you are entering into.

I have been, which is why I'm struggling so much with what I should do. I don't want to cut off contact with her and I don't want to rule anything out - other than a full-blown serious relationship. But I know that the steps our relationship took before mirrored both of the other relationships I've seen her in since so I know it will go that way if I get too close.

For you to contemplate returning to any sort of relationship with her after what you've already experienced indicates to me that the sex must have been really memorable.  

Haha... .yes, exactly. It would have been better if I'd gone back and it was nowhere near as good as I remembered. Unfortunately it was even better... .which makes it impossible not to want to go back again!

[formflier]

 Please think very clearly about what you are entering into.

This is really my point... .it's obvious to me that you are not thinking clearly, or if you are... .you are not communicating that clearly.

BPDish relationships lend themselves to us "nons" not thinking clearly.  

(prude alert... move along if you are prudish)  Guys that have gotten laid really hard or really "good"... .also tend to have a hard time thinking clearly.  You know the joke amongst guys... ."dude... .which "brain" are you thinking with... ?"  (we've all been there).

So... .let's get to it.  Is she your "top" sexual partner?  Most enjoyable?  Is that what you want to get back to?

FF

[Veryconfuseduk32]

(prude alert... move along if you are prudish)  Guys that have gotten laid really hard or really "good"... .also tend to have a hard time thinking clearly.  You know the joke amongst guys... ."dude... .which "brain" are you thinking with... ?"  (we've all been there).

So... .let's get to it.  Is she your "top" sexual partner?  Most enjoyable?  Is that what you want to get back to?

FF

She's amazing in bed and we're very compatible in that way. There was another girl I have been dating recently and the spark wasn't there in the way it is with my BPDex. I know there are a lot of reasons why that may be the case - especially with the history between us.


I do want to continue that but I know that the more often that happens the closer we will get and the bigger the risk that it blows up in a very dramatic fashion.

[formflier]

So... .here is a big picture question.

Why not spend your time and energy finding a relationship where "she is great in bed" AND... ."there is now downside."

Nothing wrong with wanting a relationship with "spark" (physically and emotionally).  I think you were right to move on from relationships were that was missing (assuming you gave it time to develop or not)

What I simply don't understand... .is a decision to spend time and effort on a relationship that "burned you".  Especially... .especially... .when you have been burned before in previous relationships with similar dynamics.

Have you had a relationship where there was spark... .AND... there was healthy emotional regulation, respect, consistent kindness and all that?

FF

[Veryconfuseduk32]

Why not spend your time and energy finding a relationship where "she is great in bed" AND... ."there is now downside."

I'm not sure there's ever such a thing as "no downside" even with emotionally healthy people. But I see your point. I don't particularly have the time to spend too much time looking for/investing in any relationship at present (I have a full time job, a child, some hobbies I focus a lot of time on and uni work) in many ways I think that's why a sexual relationship with this person which is fairly casual is attractive to me.

What I simply don't understand... .is a decision to spend time and effort on a relationship that "burned you".  Especially... .especially... .when you have been burned before in previous relationships with similar dynamics.

I agree, although I see her every day at work and that is where I generally spend time and talk to her. It's impossible to completely ignore her and I do enjoy the time we spend together.

Have you had a relationship where there was spark... .AND... there was healthy emotional regulation, respect, consistent kindness and all that?

Yes, I was with someone between 2010-2015 which was like this but I think I was too hurt from my previous relationship that I probably wasn't ready for it (trust issues, etc that came from my previous relationship). We are still friends and we have spoke about getting back together in the past but I don't know if it could really work considering the way things went when we were together. It didn't end on terrible terms, but I wasn't the person I wanted to be in that relationship and I don't think she was either.

[formflier]

  I wasn't the person I wanted to be in that relationship and I don't think she was either.

This is HUGE!

Who do you want to be?  That is a very important... perhaps THE most important question of all.  Combine that with a reflective... .realistic... .look at who you are now... .and you will find a lot to work with

I am a big believer that relationships are part of the way we mature.  I'm 48 years old, yet I still strive to add/improve "relationship skills" and other skills.  Certainly I like who I am, yet I also want to be better... .and have a "list" of things I want to work improve.

I'm interested in hearing about who you are and who you want to be... .   

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I don't particularly have the time to spend too much time looking for/investing in any relationship at present (I have a full time job, a child, some hobbies I focus a lot of time on and uni work) in many ways I think that's why a sexual relationship with this person which is fairly casual is attractive to me.

OK, you've got a lot on your plate. You're busy. You don't have time to get fully invested in a sexual/emotional relationship with a healthy woman. Got it.

So, instead, you're going to boink this crazy woman (crazy by definition because she's already threatened suicide) and get your physical needs met without having to have an emotional relationship. Got it.

Can you be assured that you won't be dealing with suicide threats in the future? Do you know that she won't get emotionally attached to you and demand more? What would you say if one of your friends were telling you this?

My thought is why don't you just enjoy casual flirting with this woman and find an attractive and skillful prostitute? In the end, I think the cost would be less.

[Veryconfuseduk32]

This is HUGE!

Who do you want to be?  That is a very important... perhaps THE most important question of all.  Combine that with a reflective... .realistic... .look at who you are now... .and you will find a lot to work with

I am a big believer that relationships are part of the way we mature.  I'm 48 years old, yet I still strive to add/improve "relationship skills" and other skills.  Certainly I like who I am, yet I also want to be better... .and have a "list" of things I want to work improve.

I'm interested in hearing about who you are and who you want to be... .   

I'm not sure I've done enough reflection to be close to knowing exactly. I really do need to take some time to do that.

OK, you've got a lot on your plate. You're busy. You don't have time to get fully invested in a sexual/emotional relationship with a healthy woman. Got it.

So, instead, you're going to boink this crazy woman (crazy by definition because she's already threatened suicide) and get your physical needs met without having to have an emotional relationship. Got it.

That doesn't make me sound great! But yeah, that is about right.

Can you be assured that you won't be dealing with suicide threats in the future?

No, and that does scare me.

Do you know that she won't get emotionally attached to you and demand more?

No, and I suppose I can't be sure that I won't get emotionally attached as well.

What would you say if one of your friends were telling you this?

Probably to run a mile... .but I suppose we all feel different when we're in this kind of situation.

My thought is why don't you just enjoy casual flirting with this woman and find an attractive and skillful prostitute? In the end, I think the cost would be less.

Haha... .that's an interesting suggestion haha. If there was a such thing as prostitutes who did all of the flirting, playing hard to get and all of that build up then I'd be interested! I think - as great as the sex with her is - that the whole build up and anticipation and then it happening is what made it so amazing.

[Red5]

Haha... .that's an interesting suggestion (prostitute) haha. If there was a such thing as prostitutes who did all of the flirting, playing hard to get and all of that build up then I'd be interested!

I think - as great as the sex with her is - that the whole build up and anticipation and then it happening is what made it so amazing.

Afternoon "V",

(Caveat) This is meant to be funny !

I have read many times, in regards to BPD behaviors in women... .that during the ideation phase, the "love bombing"... .that what is really occurring, is really a grand and complicated operation to "hook" you, the "non", it has been said (written) that the pw/BPD is indeed "mirroring YOU" during said "ideation phase"!

Like some kind of "Stepford Wives Tale"... .with a small portion of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" ,

... .ie, the pw/BPD is giving you exactly what you want, as in you're chasing and falling for yourself (?) !... .not really what they; the pw/BPD feel or want, but what you require to be able to identify with her as a somewhat "healthy?" dating realtionship, .or said a better way, and extremely desirable (sex pot) relationship.

You are her "supply", .maybe think black widow  !

And then... .once she's hooked you real good, hook set, and got you outa your nice warm water world of hooker night sexual fantasies ... .landed you, and you are now flopping round in her shrimp boat, she is really going to have her way with you, mask comes off, other shoe drops, and then you the hapless happy freshly de-boned "non" are now going to get the "real" treatment... .and I ain't talking about hotty totty sex, and happy happy boom boom forevermore... .no, I'm talking about head games, and not the head you're thinking with , .no, the other one !

... .something to think about... .is it all "fake" (?), is she really putting out what you think you are getting... .or it is all a parlor trick... .

Crazy stuff!

Be careful "V" !

And remember, "read the insert"... .

Red5

[Cat Familiar]

Haha... .that's an interesting suggestion haha. If there was a such thing as prostitutes who did all of the flirting, playing hard to get and all of that build up then I'd be interested! I think - as great as the sex with her is - that the whole build up and anticipation and then it happening is what made it so amazing.

There is such a service. The price will be commensurate with the status, elegance, and education you specify and the title of the service provider would be "escort" rather than "prostitute". Make sure you keep that bit in mind.