Many use NC as punishment or struggle with NC like quiting an addiction

[Circle]

Re: Having difficulty pulling the NC trigger

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=286067

split from

I haven't read the entire thread.

I was thinking about this yesterday though. Seeing the title of your post brought it back to mind. Pulling the NC Trigger

This is part of what I was pondering. How, it seems like, on these boards,

many people use NC as a form of punishment. Or, they struggle to go NC; like quitting an addiction.

What I was wondering to myself, is how could people look at it a different way? How could people get to the point, where they didn't care one way or another if they saw their pwBPD? I mean, isn't that really the goal of going NC; to not give a hoot? Or, to care less? So, what does it take to achieve not caring?

Does that mean not having sex? Does that mean not seeing them? Does that mean seeing them? Does that mean helping them, so you get frustrated with their crud and don't care?

Maybe the NC thing is just a habitual method for trying to achieve something else; like arriving at the point where this person doesn't have a grip on us anymore? And, what can we do to get to that point?

[steve195915]

I haven't read the entire thread.

I was thinking about this yesterday though. Seeing the title of your post brought it back to mind. Pulling the NC Trigger

This is part of what I was pondering. How, it seems like, on these boards,

many people use NC as a form of punishment. Or, they struggle to go NC; like quitting an addiction.

What I was wondering to myself, is how could people look at it a different way? How could people get to the point, where they didn't care one way or another if they saw their pwBPD? I mean, isn't that really the goal of going NC; to not give a hoot? Or, to care less? So, what does it take to achieve not caring?

Does that mean not having sex? Does that mean not seeing them? Does that mean seeing them? Does that mean helping them, so you get frustrated with their crud and don't care?

Maybe the NC thing is just a habitual method for trying to achieve something else; like arriving at the point where this person doesn't have a grip on us anymore? And, what can we do to get to that point?

Typically the nonBPD has intense feelings with our BPD partner though we've been abused, lied too, maybe cheated on and been through a nightmare.  We feel we have reached our breaking point and need to get away for our own self-preservation though the feelings for our pwBPD are still intense.  We go NC to try to get away and remove their grip on us because we know that maintaining contact we will fall right back.  Most of the time going NC doesn't work, We may justify their behavior as being their mental illness and just not them, we wonder if we could have done things to make it better, we may feel guilty for giving up on someone with a mental illness and actions they can't control, we wonder how they are feeling about the NC and our relationship, if they are feeling the same pain, we wonder what they are doing, we remember the intensity of the love we shared, and we miss them immensely.  So we may contact them or they contact us and we're hooked again.  Then the pattern repeats until we finally so beat down we can have the strength and/or support to stay NC or our pwBPD decides that they are through with you and have their replacement. 

Is there hope? There are a few success stories on here and I hope I'm one of them.  I've learned techniques to diffuse situations so I'm giving it one more try.  Cautiously optomistic.

[Skip]

Then the pattern repeats until we finally so beat down we can have the strength and/or support to stay NC or our pwBPD decides that they are through with you and have their replacement. 

Letting go, giving up, even if we have to force it (which is a CBT type of exercise), makes sense. It's the humble start of detachment. Its the first step in untangling our daily habits, co-values, etc., with another person and starting the process of transitioning from a couple to a single.

Pretty straight forward.

Often, the "action term" of "no contact" gets substituted for all of the above. Why is it preferred?  Because it sound like power, control, retribution.  Things we want.

It fails because we generally don't get any of these payoffs. First, most of the "no contact" is imposed on members, either by the partner walking away, or moving into the highly egregious behavior (i.e., setting our cat on fire and throwing it in front of a bus  ) This is not power, control, or retribution in most cases.

"Hey all, look at me, NC for 16 days "

"I am strick turbo charged NC for 27 days "

"Follow the golden NC rule, you will be saved "

We can get lost in power, control, or retribution (which incidentally are all couple transactions, so we are working against ourselves) and we can lose track of what we are trying to do - become a independent single entity again.

Humble words let "letting go", "surrendering to a higher power" might be truer when we speak to ourselves.  bpdfamily suggests DNR (do not resuscitate) as its not an action word.

"Hey all, look at me, do not resuscitate for 16 days "

"I am strick turbo charged letting go for 27 days "

"Follow the golden surrender rule, you will be saved "

See how the words really mask the true meaning or focus us in?

"Hey all, I went to the movies with friends last night and its the first time in weeks that I enjoyed myself and didn't catch myself daydreaming about my relationship pain"

[Joem678]

For now, NC has helped me get away from mind games and anxiety attacks.  After two decades of guilting, manipulation and cheating, I was left suicidal.  There are signs of a possible recycle attempt.  I'm not in a healthy state of mind to entertain communications.  I am only living for my kids now.  I was told by my therapist, "it's like they tell you on a plane, put the oxygen mask on you first... ."  So NC for me means healing and freedom.  Has nothing to do with her.

[Mutt]

For the first three months after she left me I was very angry and felt resentful because I felt like I had lost control. She was having an affair with another man and she had come out with her boyfriend shortly after she had left. My voice carried no way I felt like I had become insignificant when we had a relationship for several years and we were husband and wife. It was painful stuff.

I had seen in our marriage how she had treated ex partners and the high conflict with co-parenting and the emotional attachment that my step daughter's dad had with my ex wife. I witnessed this first hand for many years and I had believed that he was a bad father like she had depicted him. I understand now that people are not all good or all bad and we're somewhere in the middle ground. I didn't want to suffer like my step daughters father had and I had the advantage because I learned about BPD.

My goal with minimal contact was to detach and give myself the space and time to heal my emotional wounds and to learn how to stop reacting to my ex wife's reaction so that I would have peace. I didn't want the kids to feel resentment towards their mother or have them be in the middle of conflict with divorce poison. My kids look up to me and have unconditional love and see me as dad and They don't know that she has traits of BPD, they just see her as mom. I have a young family and they needed to have an emotionally string parent to guide them through their childhood with a parent that has social impairments, rigid thinking and can be very critical about herself and others.

Minimal contact  was a temporary tool that I had put in place to self protect until I felt like I was strong enough, to be able to understand why my ex wife behaved the way that she does and to coach with co-parenting instead of taking things personally so that it makes things easier for my kids.

[joel6242]

NC is not about our feelings, it is about letting go and focusing on ourselves. My exBPD is doing just fine and is with someone else that he torturing. The problem comes when the new person has had enough and they have no where to go. Yes this is a bad situation but I know if I take him back; he will do the same thing all over again. That is the recycle part. My situation is very bad and it is time that I take NC to another level and hide. My exBPD will try and get in my life again once I go dark, that is what they do.

At the end of the day, I want to get out of this in one piece and with dignity. I have said this before but I need to "let go and let God". I am not a religious person but that needs to happen so I have dignity. We care and we love the BPD but they drown us in their tragic episodes.

[kc sunshine]

These words make a lot of sense to me. Letting go, surrendering to a higher power. To me even the phrases "giving up" or "giving up hope" speak to the work that I need to do. 

Then the pattern repeats until we finally so beat down we can have the strength and/or support to stay NC or our pwBPD decides that they are through with you and have their replacement. 

Letting go, giving up, even if we have to force it (which is a CBT type of exercise), makes sense. It's the humble start of detachment. Its the first step in untangling our daily habits, co-values, etc., with another person and starting the process of transitioning from a couple to a single.

Pretty straight forward.

Often, the "action term" of "no contact" gets substituted for all of the above. Why is it preferred?  Because it sound like power, control, retribution.  Things we want.

It fails because we generally don't get any of these payoffs. First, most of the "no contact" is imposed on members, either by the partner walking away, or moving into the highly egregious behavior (i.e., setting our cat on fire and throwing it in front of a bus  ) This is not power, control, or retribution in most cases.

"Hey all, look at me, NC for 16 days "

"I am strick turbo charged NC for 27 days "

"Follow the golden NC rule, you will be saved "

We can get lost in power, control, or retribution (which incidentally are all couple transactions, so we are working against ourselves) and we can lose track of what we are trying to do - become a independent single entity again.

Humble words let "letting go", "surrendering to a higher power" might be truer when we speak to ourselves.  bpdfamily suggests DNR (do not resuscitate) as its not an action word.

"Hey all, look at me, do not resuscitate for 16 days "

"I am strick turbo charged letting go for 27 days "

"Follow the golden surrender rule, you will be saved "

See how the words really mask the true meaning or focus us in?

"Hey all, I went to the movies with friends last night and its the first time in weeks that I enjoyed myself and didn't catch myself daydreaming about my relationship pain"

[Joem678]

Joel,

Same here.  How many episodes have you gone through?

[Lonely_Astro]

I can say that NC for me isn't about punishing her... .she does enough of that to herself already.  NC is for me, because frankly I am addicted to her.  I got lost in the warmth that is her love, when she gave it to me.  Much like a drug addict craves that "one more score" every time, I too found myself wanting just one more score with J.  You know what the problem is with a drug addiction?  You usually end up with an overdose at some point.  Metaphorically, I was overdosing by allowing her to do/say things to me that I wouldn't let any other person do/say to me.  Sure, her method of abuse was typically silent treatment but there were other forms of psychological abuse from her.  She said ST was to protect me, which was probably true on her end, but that didn't make it right.

So, as I said, NC for me is about getting out of that "one more" mindset.  I have been LC for awhile.  It was forced by her, for starters.  She was LC with me, not me to her, but I eventually started to taper myself off of the drug that was her by embracing the LC and taking my time responding to her and so on.  I set a date of today to go NC because of some wounds that she re-opened the other day.  I just realized how unhealthy she was for me.  Did that make it easy?  No.  Did I meet the NC date line I drew myself?  Not really.  I still talked to her but it was very minimal and wasn't really about r/s (she asked me how I was holding up, I responded, she apologized again profusely for "how she is and how she wishes she could change it" and for "all the pain she caused" me this year as well as how much she "hated it and wished she could change it all".   This wasn't manipulation.  I could see the guilt/shame on her face when she was saying it.  I know that it took a tremendous amount of energy, trust, and bravery on her part to address that like she did to me.  I validated her and she had to walk away because we were at work.  In the end, it wasn't about fault, it was about moving forward.  J showed me today that she has matured, at least some.  Had this had happened 4 years ago (as it did), she would've simply ignored me and left me to figure it all out after the dust settled.  Thats how she left 4 years ago.  This time, she actually gave me closure.  She can't see the progress, but she is making it (though it is extremely fragile, it seems).

So, while I'm sure some use NC as punishment... .I feel the vast majority of us use it to heal the wounds without the risk of creating new ones until we are confident, brave, and healthy enough to face our former lovers with the steeled emotion that they can no longer hurt us like they hurt themselves (both emotionally and in some cases physically).

[mywifecrazy]

For me NC was about about getting my out of the FOG that was her gas lighting and manipulating ways. I didn't realize being in love with her. I was too close and attached to see that I was being lied to and that my reality wasn't reality at all. The world as I new it was a falsehood that she created to keep me from finding out who she really is. Going NC literally saved me from destruction. It allowed me to start the painful but necessary healing process by taking my focus off of her and her self destructive ways and re-focused them on me, my kids and my faith in God.

In the end it benefitted her too as going NC allowed me to learn more about her condition and how to protect myself and my kids. NC allowed me to process my anger in a healthy way detached from her. I am still NC or should I say very limited contact (we have kids) and it is serves as a healthy boundary for me. It's sad but necessary as every time I have contact With her I subjected to her lies and drama and I don't want any parts of that.

MWC... .

[patientandclear]

Addressing this to Skip in particular: my memory is that when I was first dealing with an extraordinarily painful breakup and feelings of betrayal some years ago, the materials on this site for people leaving stressed the importance of NC as did advisors. It was a rare poster who deviated and it took me 10 months to accept that NC was not allowing me to heal, I actually needed contact to move ahead because otherwise my ex was frozen in time in my head as a wonderful partner, as he'd been till he left. Have the materials and advice changed? I've found myself actually quite angry with people in my life who insisted then I stop talking with my ex. For one thing, I think possibly our r/ship was salvageable if I hadn't contributed to the trauma by cutting him off.

[Michelle27]

Like others, NC is about healing my own wounds.  I started working on this in our last year or two together, but there's no way I could have made the progress I have since going NC.  It's been just over 6 months since our last face to face meeting and there was one email exchange about 6 weeks after we separated.  Other than that, all I have heard is twice from his lawyer. 

What I don't understand, is how he can choose NC with his daughter.  She is 11 and right from when we first separated, I've been clear with her about how the issues between her Dad and I have no bearing on her and his relationship.  She has a cell phone and up until 3.5 months ago, they were in contact and I was careful about encouraging it.  She had 2 visits with him in the first 6 weeks after separation that totalled 5.5 hours and a week or so after she canceled what would have been the 3rd visit, he dropped off the planet.  Apparently he got a new cell number and never bothered to tell her the number or stay in contact.  I believe he is using NC as punishment, not against her but me.  So not fair.

[butterfly15]

If neither of us are contacting each other does that mean we are both punishing each other? I think NC by only one party would be the punishment that was stated earlier in this thread. I agree with the others though I am addicted and need to forget about him. He isn't good for me. Sure I wonder what he is doing. Does he miss me/us? I dont think so since he hasn't contacted me.

[kyon147]

For me I have been NC but then ended up in LC because we have had to exchange some possessions.

I plan to go full NC when I have finally dealt with the exchange of stuff. Why, because my exBPD was her cake and to eat it. They will continue to try and drag you back in, give them hope or whatever they think you need to keep you addicted to them. That way you are their lifeline. Even though she left me for the guy she was cheating on me with and is now with him instantly after we broke up she still wants me around. She has said herself she is terrified to lose me completely. Why, because she thinks I will always come back no matter what she does.

For me NC is my way of gaining control of myself and being able to break away. One thing I have learned is most pwBPD will try and recycle at some point. So when my ex is done with this guy she will most likely be back, NC for me is to detach myself enough for when that happens.

How you use LC, NC and any other thing is just a tool. But it should be a tool for yourself not aimed at the other person, we have all dealt more than enough with always thinking about our exBPD partners and now it has to be turned inwards for ourselves.

[Skip]

Lot's of good comments in this thread.

[cosmonaut]

NC certainly doesn't have to be punitive, but in my observation it often is.  There are indeed times when NC is unquestionably the best choice (abuse, domestic violence, etc).  I do, however, think many people use it as a way to try and punish their ex.  "Boy, they'll really be sorry when I'm gone.  I'm going to show them."  It's not healthy and it's certainly not healing.

I also think that we sometimes use it as a magic ritual that will ward off the pain of the breakup.  I don't see that often actually working.  NC is a side issue from actually working on healing.

Ultimately, NC is just a tool.  Frankly, I find it a rather crude one.  It's the cut from the same cloth as the primitive coping mechanism that pwBPD often use.  It's avoidance instead of dealing.  One of the things I have noticed in my time here, and certainly in myself, is that we are astonishingly similar to our exes.  Far more than we initially realize.  It is a very thin line that separates us.

[butterfly15]

Ultimately, NC is just a tool.  Frankly, I find it a rather crude one.  It's the cut from the same cloth as the primitive coping mechanism that pwBPD often use.  It's avoidance instead of dealing.  One of the things I have noticed in my time here, and certainly in myself, is that we are astonishingly similar to our exes.  Far more than we initially realize.  It is a very thin line that separates us.

If we contact them doesn't that just put us back into the cycle? My ex and I haven't contacted each other in over a month and I feel if I reach out to him I will just get the ST for not contacting him. That will take me steps backwards. Of course I want answers. From what I have read it appears I will never get them. I feel why should I try then? I will be even more upset. I dont like NC, but he isn't trying either.

[kyon147]

Ultimately, NC is just a tool.  Frankly, I find it a rather crude one.  It's the cut from the same cloth as the primitive coping mechanism that pwBPD often use.  It's avoidance instead of dealing.  One of the things I have noticed in my time here, and certainly in myself, is that we are astonishingly similar to our exes.  Far more than we initially realize.  It is a very thin line that separates us.

If we contact them doesn't that just put us back into the cycle? My ex and I haven't contacted each other in over a month and I feel if I reach out to him I will just get the ST for not contacting him. That will take me steps backwards. Of course I want answers. From what I have read it appears I will never get them. I feel why should I try then? I will be even more upset. I dont like NC, but he isn't trying either.

I think you have to do what is right for you at the end of it. You will most likely not get answers as pwBPD just can not give you them, that would mean they have to face themselves.

So think of it this way, how would it help YOU to speak to him? If you think there is a valid reason then go for it. If you can't and its because you miss him, love him, wants answers then don't it will just hurt you further.

Of course like I said it is your choice, only you can make the one that you think and feels right.

[Skip]

If we contact them doesn't that just put us back into the cycle? My ex and I haven't contacted each other in over a month and I feel if I reach out to him I will just get the ST for not contacting him. That will take me steps backwards. Of course I want answers. From what I have read it appears I will never get them. I feel why should I try then? I will be even more upset. I dont like NC, but he isn't trying either.

The alternative to no contact is not contact. You are exemplify the point on how this gets convoluted at times.

The solution you seek is not "no contact", it is detachment, letting go, acceptance, grieving, etc. No contact is to detachment the same way a hammer and nail is to building a home. We have to be careful not to become fixated on the tool - and instead fixate on the cure.

butterfly15, if the breakup was pushed on us, we really only have the option to detachment, letting go, acceptance, grieving, etc.

[cosmonaut]

If we contact them doesn't that just put us back into the cycle? My ex and I haven't contacted each other in over a month and I feel if I reach out to him I will just get the ST for not contacting him. That will take me steps backwards. Of course I want answers. From what I have read it appears I will never get them. I feel why should I try then? I will be even more upset. I dont like NC, but he isn't trying either.

No, I don't think that it does pull us back into the cycle unless we choose to reenter the cycle.  Sometimes we act like we are tricked or strong armed into returning to the relationship, but that's making excuses.  We make the decision.  No one can force us to have a relationship any more than we can force someone to have a relationship with us.

You may not be able to get the answers you seek from your ex.  And I'm sorry for that, because I know how much you want them.  I did too.  Your ex, however, may not understand themselves what is wrong, and may not be able to provide the answers no matter how much they might want to do so.  Or they may be too ashamed or find it too emotionally difficult to discuss such a painful topic.  This is very hard to deal with though, because we all want closure in the relationship.  In the end, we usually have to provide it to ourselves.

[hashtag_loyal]

I admit that I've used NC as a weapon, triggering her fear of abandonment in the hopes that she'd open up and provide answers. It worked the first time, not the second time. I did not do it out of malice, but it greatly aided in my understanding and healing.

Now I realize I've gotten all the answers I'll be able to, and have moved on completely from my ex. I'm currently struggling for what to say to help her move on, but there's probably nothing I can really do that will make a difference. I'm thinking I should gradually move us towards NC (or at least sporadic and superficial LC) as that would be in our mutual benefit. Either way, I am not looking to punish her and want to fade out as humanely as possible.

If we contact them doesn't that just put us back into the cycle? My ex and I haven't contacted each other in over a month and I feel if I reach out to him I will just get the ST for not contacting him. That will take me steps backwards. Of course I want answers. From what I have read it appears I will never get them. I feel why should I try then? I will be even more upset. I dont like NC, but he isn't trying either.

This is true, but wouldn't knowing you will never get any answers be better than just wondering if you will ever get them? For me, the more communication I have with my ex the quicker I heal because I am constantly confronted with more and more evidence of just how disturbed she really is.The "answers" I have gotten:

1. She has a terrible time with the truth. Whether she legitimately cannot remember something or is just unable to admit it is a novel distinction but wholly irrelevant from my perspective. I now know that I will never get the full truth out of her, no matter what.

2. She is spectacularly disordered! I now know I cannot have any kind of inter-personal relationship with her. We cannot be lovers. We cannot be friends. We cannot be enemies. The only way we can have a healthy coexistence is when she becomes that person who comments on my social media posts once every 7-10 days and I ask her how her dogs are doing. That's it.

[Skip]

In the end, we usually have to provide it to ourselves.

Or work together here to make sense of it in conversations like this where we try to better understand the ex, the relationship, and most importantly, ourselves.  

[cosmonaut]

Or work together here to make sense of it in conversations like this where we try to better understand the ex, the relationship, and most importantly, ourselves.  

That's an excellent point, Skip.  Working on closure here can be very helpful too.   

[once removed]

it may be the most popular subject on this board and im always kind of struck by the fixation on it. arguments from whether LC or NC is best, to how far you have to go to qualify as "no contact", whether you have to dispose of relationship memorabilia, whether even reading an email is "breaking NC".

when i think of NC, i think of a few examples. a person who has been abused by their partner, who is fleeing the relationship, and reasonably fears for their life or safety. a person who isnt sure whether they can or want to be friends with their partner, but needs some space and time to detach. both are completely reasonable examples.

speaking to the title of this thread, in another, similar thread, i saw skip describe a lot of what many do as not "NC", but simply "ending the pursuit". does that involve less or no contact? sure. its not a lifestyle change, and i think thats the problem, that some see "NC" as a lifestyle, not one tool, of many tools.

for a couple months i tried to force the exchange of belongings with my ex. i gave up (i ended the pursuit). we have never communicated directly again. is that "no contact"? it is a lack of contact. either of us is free to contact the other. its not a lifestyle, i dont count the days.

but on the other hand, i think some of us see these relationships as addictions more than others, and that is their truth, i would never argue with their perception. such a person typically feels that any exposure is like a relapse. who am i to quibble with that? if we were talking about an alcoholic, i would not judge them for avoiding bars. some alcoholics will quit and indeed go into a bar, and abstain from drinking. thats just two different approaches, neither is wrong. i think thats where we go wrong a lot of the time when we talk about NC. what has worked for us, for whatever reason, we insist upon to another. its just like what we do with triggers in the aftermath of our relationships; sometimes we expose ourselves to them to lessen the impact, sometimes doing so would genuinely be badly detrimental, too much. neither is right or wrong but unique to us and our situation. its not even an option for everyone, and to them, it is irrelevant. some, like hashtag_loyal find a means of detachment within continued contact. why not? reading old texts did the same for me.

in general, contact, no contact, low contact, i think its something we as members should be far less hung up about. its one tool of many tools, its not a lifestyle.