Hello,

This is my first time here. Hope someone can help. I have a mother with BPD. I have been placating her for a decade pretty successfully though it is time-consuming and draining to lie so much (in order to validate her feelings etc.). I felt it was safer for me to just keep her happy and I also had a vague idea that I was being helpful to other family members by "taking a hit for the team".

But now a member of our family is moving and I knew this would trigger a nasty result for me as her primary emotional support. She laid a trap for me and I fell into it. First, she baited me by intentionally violating a few of my boundaries. I remained passive. Then she asked if I like her ... Well, I have been having some work stress lately etc. and I snapped. My entire family has collaborated to keep our true opinions from her and I just dumped the entire, cold, truth on her head. I told her she is abusive, that I know she lies, that I am not a romantic partner but a daughter, etc. I told her she isn't safe to be around, I could go on. I haven't told the truth in so long it was almost like a drug. I couldn't stop. I'm also a bit scared at how much anger this incident shows I have.

Now I am sitting here wondering if I have done something wrong. If I should apologize. She isn't speaking to me but is doing things to show she isn't speaking to me (dropping stuff off etc.) I expect there have been repurcussions from this for other family members, which I feel guilty about. I am also suspicious I am confusing guilt with just fear of when and how she will get back at me.

Is it heartless to tell a BPD person the truth? I'm so confused. My system is broken and I don't know if I want to go back. Please help.

There's a current thread on the 'divorcing' board on this subject as well. One of the admins posted a link to an older
discussion of this question you might find helpful.

"I keep having the experience where she tells me: “I am treating you so much better, and I haven’t insulted you, put you down, or name called or accused you lately.”
I let her know that it is wonderful she is feeling better though her treatment, but that as good as that is for her, on my end I would feel seen a lot more if she were to ASK ME about my experience rather than telling me how much better she treats me.
This pretty much always gets an angry response and how I am am invalidating her, and how I am ‘refusing to let me get better’."

KD, I meant to comment on this. It seems like a familiar behavioral trait where the person tell you what you're feeling and thinking and doing.

She does seem to want to be better, which is good. But she still 'needs' you to validate her reality and therefore herself. The angry response is still the behavioral/thinking problem underneath, inability to see your point of view and to empathize with your experience. Which becomes you doing a 'bad' thing to her, "refusing to let me get better". You aren't doing that, at all, of course. But it's the game of invalidation and ascribing to you motives that 'make' her respond in a certain way.

Thanks everyone for all the understanding and suggestions. I really appreciate it. Especially the reminder that boundaries are for me and not her.
At this point, there is not much new to report. Her abusive emails from last weekend, in addition to blaming me for everything that was wrong, and accusing me of many things I never did, also said she didn’t want to have anything to do with me, she hated me, she wished I was dead, and she wanted me to get out of her life, if there were going to be conditions on financial support. It gets very transactional and she seems to only want money from me.I know she doesn’t necessarily mean all of this, and I try not to take it personally, but I reach my limit at times in terms of the abuse I can take.  I haven’t responded to any of these and am just letting her be at this point, and trying not to worry about her too much. It seems best to let her be the one to initiate contact. Thanks again for all the understanding! 

Hi again
As ever grateful for a place to go and any responses I receive are all gratefully received, thank you for taking the time.
I’ve had no contact with my pregnant daughter for over a couple of months now, she has another child  due in July
I cut contact & had to block her number and email as the abuse was effecting my mental and physical health plus no contact with grandchild, her decision . Today is my grandchild birthday- Like all grandmothers  I sent cards and gifts, which arrived as they should ( tracked)
 I’ve now received a message from my son saying she will not give the gifts to the child as I haven’t given her a proper explanation about … Blah Blah Blah & that she’s unwell with her pregnancy etc etc.
I truly despise her today and regret sending the gifts as I ‘enabled her ! She’s  using the child’s birthday to further abuse both of us !
She’s not fit to call her self a Mother, in my opinion, as I mentioned before,here, I worry about her child and unborn child given her mental health. I Was going to approach SS but became too ill myself to deal with the stress and ‘upset’ that would cause and frightened it would make things worse ? .
I just feel so sad for my little grandchild, she talks to no one in the family & the only saving grace is he’s at nursery 3/4 days a week.
Very upsetting day which should be a time of love and celebration for the little one.

Thank you for the responses and interesting how your daughter is aware of her behaviour around others but happy to dish out the abuse when alone.My daughter has  no control or off  button -I suppose you can always keep the meetings to a public place !

Livednlearned,

Thanks so much.

Just yesterday, he was considering doing a 900 mile car trip, for the two of us, to visit relatives. I immediately told him to go by himself, because I couldn’t sit for that length of time.  I also told him I saw that as torture, not a pleasure trip. He was surprised. He kept insisting that I should accompany him, and I kept refusing. I felt it was important to set boundaries. I don’t even want to be in a car with him for an hour — let alone 12-15.  He eventually suggested flying. I refused again, saying I simply wasn’t up for it, but he should go ahead.  In the past, I would’ve whined and  pleaded for him not to drive, assuming he was in charge of ME. No more. After a while, the whole idea of the trip magically went away!  I think it was because he realized I wasn’t going to let him beat up on me.  So yes — I learned I could set boundaries, without escalation! I stood my ground!

I know he was appalled  when he saw that I’d love for him to go away for ten days. That would be heaven for me! 

I think he’s going to be shocked when I refuse to get in the car with him next week. He can ride with Judge Judy , like he wants to. I’ll be home, safe.

Tangled Mangle,

Thanks so much.

I pray he doesn’t get violent. My first step is to have two peaceful days on my own, in a hotel.  We do have security in our building, but I hope it doesn’t come to that.  I plan to leave when he’s at a doctor’s appointment, so it will be easy to get out.

I’m old, and sadly, many family members who would’ve supported me, have passed on.  But I do have friends.  W/He have two adult children, but they’re not likely to support me. They’re his biological children.

Thanks so much for reminding me that the universe will step up to take care of me.

I'm trying to figure out which of these an ex had, if not more than one.

When I met her, she told me she'd been diagnosed with anxiety. Later, she switched therapists, and this one said CPTSD. Toward the end of our time together, she seemed to be seeing yet another therapist, and this one thought BPD might be at work (and some paperwork she showed me also noted this).

I know it's tough for therapists to diagnose any of these issues, and there can be comorbidities, but her behavior could get pretty extreme and included:

1) Frequent lying, even about sometimes trivial things. She once admitted she lied all the time, often without even knowing why.
2) Poor memory, both in terms of life events and even sometimes recognizing familiar places and people.
3) Changes in voice, gestures, and even facial expressions. She always has a kind of Marilyn Monroe-ish voice, but it can deepen at times. And with changes in expression come changes in demeanor, to the degree it can seem like a completely different person.
4) Pseudoseizures and abrupt mood shifts. She was also diagnosed with ADD and on several daily medications, including antidepressants and antipsychotics (for the pseudo seizures).
5) Outbursts of anger. She once got furious with me for being late due to unavoidable road construction, for example. She was inexplicably angry at a neighbor who only seemed to be trying to be nice to her.
6) Suddenly breaking up for no apparent reason. One time while shopping, I'd made an innocent comment to her, which wasn't critical in any way.  We parted happily, but by the time she got home, she called to tell me we couldn't see each other anymore because I'd hurt her feelings so bad.
7) Outpatient hospitalization for self harm or suicide ideation. She'd apparently attempted suicide years before I met her. When she got extremely stressed, she'd sometimes strike herself on the head. She could get incontinent.
8) Drug abuse (weed) and drug dealing (selling Adderall or some of the oxy she got prescribed for chronic pain). When she drank, she could be flirty and touchy-feely with strangers.
9) Bouts of extreme spending and making grandiose, unrealistic goals for the future.
10) Weirdly inappropriate comments, like telling me once how proud she was of her child's -- her words -- impressive genitalia.
11) Needing to be the damsel that would call at odd hours for rescue (ran out of gas, car won't start, etc.) even when she wasn't really in trouble.
12) Cheating. She told me she'd cheated in every relationship she'd ever had and had been married twice (at the time -- she might well be married again). While we were seeing each other, I caught her at her ex's or her ex at her place a few times, though in fairness I can't say I literally saw them together. Nonetheless, she alternated between saying she'd cheated on me and denying it. Whenever we broke up, she was back with the ex.

These are not the only things, but they're obviously a pretty healthy (or unhealthy) list. She'd also been a stripper (or so she said -- that was before I met her). Now, I don't hold dancing for a living against a woman, but it's sex work (if only marginally to some), and that seems to attract women with issues like BPD rather than, say, anxiety.  She also claimed to have been physically and sexually abused as a child by family and later raped by strangers.

Keep in mind I discovered all of this over time, as we actually saw each other on and off over a period of years. 

We'd get together, do okay for a while, I'd see red flags, then things would go south, and I'd break it off. Then she'd come at me like a Mack truck, insisting it would be different/she was getting help/I was the only one, etc.

To me, her behavior seems pretty classic BPD, at least based on what I've read. But then she showed me hospital paperwork with the other diagnoses. I've heard therapists sometimes diagnose BPD instead with, say, CPTSD both for stigma and insurance reasons.

So, what's it sound like to those of you with more experience?

P.S., Some may be asking why I want to know. Well, though that's really my business, no offense, some of it has to do with sorting all this out. For instance, I now know someone else with anxiety and wonder if I'll see the same patterns repeating themselves (though we're not romantically involved nor do I expect us to be).

What I wonder, too, is what the prognosis is for someone with this degree of issues, even with therapy and medication.

Thanks.

It really sounds like you’re between a rock and a hard place! The reason I thought of her having her own place, was that hopefully she wouldn’t keep hurting you and taking your things. Plus maybe she would face up to how messed up she was and get treatment.

Hugs!