BPD going through "manic" episode

[jsgirl360]

I mentioned in prior posts that BPDh goes through "manic" episodes, similar to a person with bipolar disorder.

The last episode was at the end of July. He went nearly a week without sleeping.  Occasionally he would doze off in the chair for a few minutes, then quickly rouse himself and get back to his iPad.  A few of the nights, I could barely sleep either since he would be up and down from bed every 5 minutes or so. Eventually he "crashes". I think the last "crash" finally occurred due to having surgery and receiving anesthesia,  which sort of "shocked" him back.

Well, he's having another episode.  It started a few days ago, he has been louder with pressured speech. I noticed I couldn't read for a minute because he was going 100 mph. Now he's having flight of ideas, turning the house into a state of disarray. This afternoon he suggested throwing out the kitchen table to make more room in the kitchen (leaving us no place to eat.) I quickly turned down that idea. The problem with his mania is that it can quickly turn into a dysregulation,  using all that manic energy to punch holes in the walls.

Being out of work actually makes the mania worse. He is physically healed from surgery,  so nothing is holding him back. At least when he is working, he has to spend about 10 hours a day out of the house. While he still has the manic episodes every few months, he is forced to channel some of that energy into at work, so the impact at home isn't so bad.  I also noticed the extended time out of work makes the mania more frequent.

Has anyone else experienced mania with a BPD family member? I'm curious as to how common it is.

While he is manic, I'm feeling "low" this week. Spending the past month with him with no respite at all is wearing me down.  Plus a few other things are going on in my life. A coworker who is very dear to me just retired (yes I had some romantic feelings for him.) I'm coming to terms with the fact I'll probably never see him again.  Also, due to BPDh being out of work and watching/criticizing my every move, I haven't been able to see the man with whom I'm having an affair. (I get comments if I take 10 extra minutes at the grocery store.) Now he's going back to his home country for over a month. I'm not sure what the status of our relationship will be when he returns.

Also, I have an incessant worry about the possibility of BPDh not returning to work. It won't go away until I'm  finally looking out the window,  watching him drive off.

[Cat Familiar]

Wow! You’ve got your hands full—no wonder your energy is not up to speed. Could it be that BPD is comorbid with bipolar? I’ve seen a bit of manic behavior from my husband, but it pales in comparison to what you describe.

[Lady Itone]

My exBPDgf was also bipolar/schitzoaffective. She would draw on her tablet nonstop, reorganize her stuff leaving everything in chaos, not eat or sleep for days. These episodes usually began with her taking too much of her adderall and/or not taking her antipsychotics. She rarely crashed naturally, usually got psychotic and required hospitalization.

Are YOU ok?

[Baglady]

Yep - my exBPDh had several what I now recognize in hindsight were manic episodes all during the course of our 21 year marriage - probably at least one annually at a guess.  However, I didn't see them for what they really were because he had a diagnosis of ADHD and he works in an artistic/creative field that enables/encourages short intense periods of little sleep and very creative outbursts of productivity.  However, at the end of last year, the latest manic episode turned into a two week period of complete and utter psychosis wherein he devalued and discarded me and walked out on our marriage.  He has stabilized now although still has episodes of milder euphoria at times still.

I worry about my son constantly when he is staying with his father during the week.  He is a teen and has been provided with a safety plan but I still worry about the possibility of another period of absolute dysregulation.  It was frightening to witness and sounds similar to what you describe - pressured speech and endless diatribes, flights of ideas, crazy levels of impulsivity etc.  My ex also managed his issues much better within the structure and routine of a 9-5 job which he was able to hold for most of our marriage but not during the last couple of years.  He was just let go again a couple of months ago - sigh.  I don't think him capable of holding down a steady job at this point although he is one of the most intelligent people I know. 

These manic periods were absolutely exhausting to live with so you have my full sympathy.  Please try to take good care of yourself and your needs as best you can.

Hugs 
B

[Tattered Heart]

I'm sorry you are having to survive through manic episodes. My H goes through them every few months too and once a year it gets really bad. These are the times when BPD gets unbearable. Sadly, you just have to ride it out. It will pass. One thing that helps me is that I try to remind myself that the mania is not something he is choosing to do. It's something in his brain causing these episodes. I can only control myself.

Usually during these times I might work a little later in the day or make sure to take some "me" time by shopping or just going to sit in the park. Quiet activities with no one else around helps to renew my ability to withstand. At home, I try to make myself smaller, such as not really engaging in conversation with my H, but instead just bounce his thoughts back to him so that he can continue talking, after all that's really what he wants to do. A common phrase I use is "I don't know. What do you think?"

Physical activity during these times tends to help my H. If we are shut up in the house not doing anything he will start to get agitated due to all his excess energy. If I can get him out in the yard handling a task, it expels some of the energy temporarily. 

[formflier]

jsgirl360

Ugg... that must be so hard to deal with.  I hope you are able to be extra kind to yourself?

I don't have any personal experience with mania and honestly not much experience reading about it on here.

Remind me again if your pwBPD is diagnosed officially?

FF

[jsgirl360]

Cat... .

Thanks for your reply!  Yes, it may be possible for  him to be co-morbid BPD and Bipolar.  He's even suggested it himself in the past when speech is so pressured he physically starts choking since he can't get words out fast enough. 

Problem is, even though he knows he's BPD and suspects he's bipolar, he refuses treatment for both.  I have heard that manic episodes can be part of BPD. It's difficult for me to discern if he goes through "lows" as well since his baseline is angry/depressed. I think there are times he's lower than usual.

The manic episode continues.  I was off work last night and he slept at most 2 or 3 hours... .enough to recharge him for another day of madness.  He now has the entire basement in disarray.  Behavior is leaning closer to a dysregulation.  I walked in the house after church last night and got 2 middle fingers and a "%$## you" directed at me - apparently I looked at him wrong.

[jsgirl360]

My exBPDgf was also bipolar/schitzoaffective. She would draw on her tablet nonstop, reorganize her stuff leaving everything in chaos, not eat or sleep for days. These episodes usually began with her taking too much of her adderall and/or not taking her antipsychotics. She rarely crashed naturally, usually got psychotic and required hospitalization.

Are YOU ok?

Physically I am ok... .thank you for asking!  Mentally I'm drained, but that's to be expected right now.  Wow... it must have been challenging and scary to deal with exgf's psychotic episodes.

BPDh isn't sleeping much. I noticed today he will go entire day without eating (never knew before as he used to be at work... .your mentioning exgf's not eating caused me to pay attention to eating habits)... .he won't have anything except maybe coffee then he'll binge on all the food in the fridge at night after everyone is in bed.

He isn't taking any meds, though I believe they would be beneficial. I've even offered him my Xanax (I'm prescribed this to deal with anxiety brought on by his BPD) and Seroquel (I'm prescribed this off-label for sleep... .also due to his BPD.) He refuses any kind of med.

In the episodes he's had in the past, he does crash on his own eventually.  However,  in the past, he had work, which kept him on a set schedule and was able to drain some of his energy. Now he's all over the place. His behavior is becoming more erratic and a psychotic episode wouldn't even surprise me at this point.

I hope everything is going well with you at the moment.  I've read some of your posts and it sounds like you went through some rough times, too.

[jsgirl360]

Baglady,

You have my full sympathy as well. I'm sure the psychotic episodes were terrifying to deal with.

As I mentioned,  my BPDh is currently out of work due to surgery.  My husband as well manages himself better working a 9 to 5 set schedule.  Even a few extra days out of work can throw him into a bad dysregulation.   He seems physically healed.  So all the extra time and energy is fueling his manic episode.

I also feel the BPD is another reason he's trying to delay his return to work.  Like many BPD's, it takes him much more effort than a neurotypical person to regulate his moods at work.  He is getting "comfortable" at home not having that pressure to regulate himself.  Unfortunately,  the longer he stays out, the more difficult I feel it will be for him to return to work and appear to others as functioning normally.  I don't think a psychotic episode is a huge leap away from where he is now.

Tattered,

Thank you for your reply. It's reassuring to hear from other people who have made it through these awful episodes.  I keep telling myself this too will pass. I think this episode is especially hard to tolerate because he isn't working now, so I don't get any respite at all.

You are right that the mania isn't their choice. I try to tell myself the same thing about his BPD in order to make it more tolerable.  I heard a saying once that we (nons) can take a day off from BPD by going away, etc. However,  a pwBPD can never take a day off from BPD. The disorder penetrates every part of their lives and thinking. If I focus on that,  I realize how fortunate we are to be nons.

FF,

Thank you for your reply. I hope you're doing well.

I'm being as kind to myself as I can. With him out of work, it's very limited what I can do. I'm getting by thinking about things I plan to do when he goes back (take myself out to a movie and a nice Chinese restaurant). I'm also hoping to go out to lunch with a former coworker this coming week.

Yes, husband is officially diagnosed with BPD (twice, in fact.) I have read in certain BPD sources on the internet that manic episodes can be a part of BPD. Problem is, how quickly the episodes can turn into a full-on dysregulation.  Since he's not working at the moment and has no other place to focus his energy,  I'm concerned his behavior is becoming more erratic.

2 weeks until his next doctor's appointment,  I'm hoping and praying he will be told to return to work.

[formflier]

Hey jsgirl360

So, your husband is officially dx BPD and has made a choice not to seek treatment.  How do you feel about that choice?  How have you communicated that to him?  Would you say that your words (which communicate things) and actions (which communicate things) to him  "match up" and are consistent?

Now... .after having given the answer you just gave... .get a cup of coffee (or other favorite morning drink) and spend some time trying to put on your "husband's lens"... .look at your words and actions from his point of view. 

You know him best, what do you believe he "hears" from you?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I'm being as kind to myself as I can. With him out of work, it's very limited what I can do. I'm getting by thinking about things I plan to do when he goes back (take myself out to a movie and a nice Chinese restaurant). I'm also hoping to go out to lunch with a former coworker this coming week.

I'm a bit unclear as to why you are currently limited about what you can do. If he's recovered enough to bring chaos to the basement, then he's obviously mobile enough that he doesn't need supervision.

Is it because of his mental state that you feel you need to be there so he doesn't do something bad to the house?

What would happen if you went to a movie by yourself and took a break from his mania?

[jsgirl360]

Hi Cat... .

When BPDh is working, he is on day shift and I work nights. This gives me the freedom to come and go as I please during the day without question.

The limitations that are stopping me aren't physical.  He admits he is completely healed now from surgery. He has now moved on from the basement to the house, which he turns into a state of disarray while I sleep.  It's difficult for me to sleep during the day after work with all the banging and crashing.

What's stopping me from going out on my own? With him home,  every time I leave the house I'm criticized and scrutinized.  If I suggested going to a movie by myself, it could lead to a dysregulation,  so I have to choose my battles. Most likely he would insist on coming, too. Thing is, he doesn't enjoy movies. So he would complain the whole time, possibly dysregulate if I disagreed with his complaints, and make me regret even going to the movie. So it's something I'll have to wait for patiently.

While he's out of work, and there's someplace I really desire to go,  I have to plan accordingly.  For example,  lunch next week with a retired coworker. I have to tell him about it for a week in advance, reminding about it each day... .otherwise, once the day arrives he will tell me I never told him and possibly dysregulate.  He might dysregulate regardless, so right now I have to choose things really worth it.

**Fun fact: BPDh doesnt enjoy fictional movies or TV shows. The only types of TV he can enjoy are sports events and instructional shows about building houses. If I do put on a comedy or drama with any emotional content,  I will hear "this is stupid" the whole time. It took me awhile to realize that due to his lack of empathy, he cannot "get into" any kind of fictional show and imagine what the characters are feeling. I'm not sure if this is related to his BPD or the sociopathic tendencies that run rampant in his foo.

Today there was another dysregulation.  BPDh's doctor made a reference to "when he returns to work". Well, this caused a meltdown. I suppose it was a reminder that, in the doctor's eyes, he will be capable of working again, possibly in the near future.  I feel that BPDh is going to do whatever he can to stay out of work. Today I had the chance to basically "read him the riot act". I reminded him that if he does quit his job, I won't be supporting his 34-year-old son. It didn't seem to phase him.

The mania also continues. Today he is looking at $1000 trucks to buy on the internet.  I didn't offer him any money towards this endeavor. Earlier in the week, he was charged $1000 to fix his current vehicle and received a $400 medical bill in the mail. I didn't offer to help pay any of these either. (As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm trying to make him learn that in order to survive financially,  he will need a job... .and hurry up his return to work.)

Hi FF... .

It aggravates me that BPDh is refusing treatment.  Since the beginning of our marriage,  when I suggested couples counseling due to dysfunctional patterns,  he has been adamant that he won't accept treatment. It shows me that he does not care about me or how I feel. I've realized over the years that it really isn't a choice on his part, but an inability to care for others (no empathy).

I'll admit, I'm resigned to my husband's refusal to seek treatment.  It's been so many years, and that is a firm limit he's always had.  My words and actions convey my resignation,  because I've given up asking.

A little disclosure... .we had some events this week that will result in my 7-year-old son starting to see a therapist.  I'll post about this at length at a later time. (DCF involved.)  I will say that my son's needing a therapist is a direct result of husband's BPD behavior.  My BPDh is informed of this, and it doesn't phase him at all. So even knowing that his behavior is damaging to his little boy gives him no motivation to seek treatment.

Putting on my "husband's lens". Hmm... this is sure difficult for me since we're so different.   Objectively he sees me not reacting to his not seeking treatment,  so in his eyes I must approve of his behavior.

(I have to note, as I stated above, he has sociopathic tendencies. He could care less what he "hears" from me, my wants and desires, what I approve of. What I want does not matter, and he has said that clearly many times.)

[formflier]

Putting on my "husband's lens". Hmm... this is sure difficult for me since we're so different.   Objectively he sees me not reacting to his not seeking treatment,  so in his eyes I must approve of his behavior.

 

Bingo... .your words and your actions don't match.

Your words said you need to get treatment... .your actions said "Ok... so you won't get treatment... I'll still be here for you, still follow your rules, still remind you every day of things I've asked your permission to do a week in advance, I'll still remind you that I won't support your son, I will still (xyz)... ."

Get the picture?

If you really want him to understand he needs to get treatment... .how should your words and actions match?

Question... not directing you to do anything.  But... a very serious question.

FF

[jsgirl360]

Bingo... .your words and your actions don't match.

Your words said you need to get treatment... .your actions said "Ok... so you won't get treatment... I'll still be here for you, still follow your rules, still remind you every day of things I've asked your permission to do a week in advance, I'll still remind you that I won't support your son, I will still (xyz)... ."

Get the picture?

If you really want him to understand he needs to get treatment... .how should your words and actions match?

Question... not directing you to do anything.  But... a very serious question.

FF

I agree... .my words and actions don't match. All my actions are doing is enabling him.  In fact, I may be contributing to him becoming sicker by allowing these patterns to go on.

I'm aware my actions should reflect his urgent need to get treatment. The problem is, no matter how much I urge him, he will refuse.  His ego comes before his family.  Myself and both our sons have all been in therapy, mostly to deal with the damage of his behavior.  Even though he is the source these issues, he refuses any kind of treatment.  The only other choice may be to ask him to leave the house (this may happen,  out of my hands, as my son has been speaking at school about our home situation, warranting a DCF investigation).

[Lady Itone]

I noticed today he will go entire day without eating (never knew before as he used to be at work... .your mentioning exgf's not eating caused me to pay attention to eating habits)... .

I hope everything is going well with you at the moment.  I've read some of your posts and it sounds like you went through some rough times, too.

I sure did go through tough times. She's out of my life right now, maybe someday years from now when she's worked on herself more... .well, probably not.

When she wouldn't eat, I was sometimes able to get her to drink Ensure, or almond milk, or some fresh-made juice. She often dehydrated herself as well because she didn't want to stop whatever insane thing she was doing to have to pee.

I just had a flashback to one fight during a manic episode. I was trying to get her to leave my house, go back to her own place as I couldn't handle the chaotic manic energy anymore. She demanded her Ensure powder, sitting on my front stoop with her stuff in disarray, rearranging everything in her backpack over and over. I just wanted her to go away. I threw the Ensure out the door at her, it came open, powder everywhere. That stuff isn't cheap, and I felt horrible.

This manic/depressive stuff is HARD. I hope you're finding time to take care of yourself.

[Cat Familiar]

My ex-husband did some manic-y stuff, buying materials for projects he'd never complete and getting amped up about wacky ideas of things he wanted to do (and never did)--but it wasn't anywhere near what y'all are experiencing. He also forgot to eat and at times looked rather emaciated. I took it as my job to provide food for him, which often irritated him, but whatever, I tried.

Reading these accounts, I see a similarity in how we were trying to help someone who didn't really want to be helped and at the same time, protect them from themselves. I remember having a great fear that if I didn't protect him, he'd self-destruct in some way. And therefore I was constantly fending off self-inflicted crises that he constantly created, many of which had serious ramifications in my life.

It's been years since our paths have crossed and I know he lives on the opposite coast, but I still occasionally get phone calls from creditors that he's skipped out on, looking for him. Darn Internet--my name will be perpetually linked to his.    So obviously he's still alive and creating chaos.  

[jsgirl360]

I sure did go through tough times. She's out of my life right now, maybe someday years from now when she's worked on herself more... .well, probably not.

When she wouldn't eat, I was sometimes able to get her to drink Ensure, or almond milk, or some fresh-made juice. She often dehydrated herself as well because she didn't want to stop whatever insane thing she was doing to have to pee.

I just had a flashback to one fight during a manic episode. I was trying to get her to leave my house, go back to her own place as I couldn't handle the chaotic manic energy anymore. She demanded her Ensure powder, sitting on my front stoop with her stuff in disarray, rearranging everything in her backpack over and over. I just wanted her to go away. I threw the Ensure out the door at her, it came open, powder everywhere. That stuff isn't cheap, and I felt horrible.

This manic/depressive stuff is HARD. I hope you're finding time to take care of yourself.

My BPDh will go without eating the entire day during a manic state. He has access to food but either is too manic to buy or fix himself something or has an expectation of me to take care of him.

One odd behavior he has... .even when he isn't manic... .is he will usually refuse anything I cook or buy for him. Then, as soon as I go to sleep or leave the house, he will eat the meal in its entirety.  Never understood this.

It sounds like you really did your best to provide care for her... .even with fresh-made juice!  I can completely empathize how frustrated you felt during a manic episode,  how you just wanted to escape from the chaotic energy. Yes, Ensure is expensive... .and I'm sure you felt bad... .but it wasn't something you did on purpose.  Dealing with their manic states can cause us to do things we wouldn't do in a typical situation.  It's tough!

I am doing my best to take care of myself.  It's difficult with him out of work, since my only actual break is when I go to work. So I don't have much down time. His next doctor's appointment is next week. I know he plans to "lay it on" so the doctor will give him more time out if work. There really is no end in sight right now. Going to work and having some accountability and responsibility is the only thing that can regulate him. Less time for nonsense.

Wishing you the best!

[jsgirl360]

My ex-husband did some manic-y stuff, buying materials for projects he'd never complete and getting amped up about wacky ideas of things he wanted to do (and never did)--but it wasn't anywhere near what y'all are experiencing. He also forgot to eat and at times looked rather emaciated. I took it as my job to provide food for him, which often irritated him, but whatever, I tried.

Reading these accounts, I see a similarity in how we were trying to help someone who didn't really want to be helped and at the same time, protect them from themselves. I remember having a great fear that if I didn't protect him, he'd self-destruct in some way. And therefore I was constantly fending off self-inflicted crises that he constantly created, many of which had serious ramifications in my life.

It's been years since our paths have crossed and I know he lives on the opposite coast, but I still occasionally get phone calls from creditors that he's skipped out on, looking for him. Darn Internet--my name will be perpetually linked to his.    So obviously he's still alive and creating chaos.  

Hi Cat,

I can relate to the buying of materials for projects that are never completed. It's like the idea is the center of his world for a moment,  then quickly falls to the wayside for the next big thing.

Earlier this year, he became obsessed with a web site (I can't remember the name) where he ordered multiple cheap trinkets from China for low prices. He spent hundreds of dollars on this site, all to buy this useless junk. He would get a few packages in the mail every day. I think initially he would feel a "rush", like a child opening a present. Then a few minutes later he would toss the trinket to the side, never to acknowledge it again.  

I think he gets the same kind of "rush" from spending $100 at the dollar store on things (junk) we don't need.  And gambling... .where do I begin.  Even if he were to win $1000 on a slot machine, he could not leave the casino without putting back every last penny and then some.  I think winning a few dollars on the slot machine gives him the same "rush" as opening the trinkets.

As a matter of fact, he went to the casino today. He hasn't mentioned how much he spent.  In a way I'm glad, because accumulation of debt may convince him to return to work.

I agree that there is a common theme in these posts. We all are trying to help those who don't want to be helped. I suppose the best thing to do are to let them fend for themselves,  the same way most adults do.  

In my husband's case, I am not supporting him financially and letting him learn on his own that being without a job just isn't feasible.  Once he comes down from his mania,  hopefully he can understand this better.