I am on the Bridge and am letting go of the rope - God have mercy

[Parents! Get help here!]

I am on the Bridge, and have been here for so very very long. [someone, please find the poem for me and post in a reply]

Holding the rope with both hands - DD26 is on the other end begging me to not let go, to hold her up from the unknown waters, that she will certainly drown if I let go. She is heavy, oh so heavy in her raging anger at the world and it is all projected onto me. And gd7 is hugging at my waist crying and I cannot hear what she is saying. My ears are ringing so loudly like in a wind blasting past.

I have to save myself, and therefore save dg7 from a certain doom if DD pulls us over with her. All of us will certainly drown. DD is ill - she is sick - she cannot save herself alone. Yet I cannot save her. So I pray for God to have mercy - to bring the intervention to heal DD and our family, have mercy so DD will not drown when she hits the water.

The rope is tossed high in the air and disappears into the darkness below. DD is crying out for me, how can I do this to her, we are family... .  God have mercy on her soul, rescue her as she is a child of your light too. God of the Angel Armies - rescue her.


DD texted yesterday to sleepover at the house Sunday then for me to drive with her to her probation meeting early Monday morning. She is fearful that her probation will be revoked. Yet, she is making the choices to smoke pot and not do UA's, not go to the required 2 hours of treatment per week (class or individual). I understand how stressed she is, and that she has created this for herself. Dh and I said - OK. And then I was so very distressed and consumed with regret at saying yes - locked up with fear. And this was distressing to gd and dh. I finally took a mild tranquilizer and time out til I calmed myself.

My T helped me get more clear today. I am so grateful for her.

I have to get out of the way so DD feels the full weight of her choices. And no matter the illness -- there are other choices she can make. I have to provide a safe, peaceful environment for myself and gd. Dh is with gd and I, he is a rock of self-control yet he gives into me thinking this will calm my worries! We have to stand together and know this most painful decision is the only one that we can make today. I have to become willing to let my worries go. There is no cystal ball or magic.

So how do I word my text to DD saying - OOPS, we changed our minds and you cannot come home Sunday?

She called me today because she lost her phone and her friend had not picked her up when agreed and she was freaking out. I called the friend - no answer. Sent text to him. DD called again demanding I call at that moment. I assured I would before I went into an appt. He answered  - yes her phone was in his car, he had just been there looking for her and was driving away. So he was parking to go find her. This is sign of the extreme level of DD's distress.

After this call, my fantasy of Sunday being OK was crushed. She just cannot come. There is too much risk of her anger exploding and someone getting hurt - more than feelings hurt. She is who she is until SHE CHOOSES TO DO TREATMENT TO CHANGE.

"I feel the intensity of your stress and it must be so hard to understand how dh and I can ask you to be out there with your friends instead of in our home. It is so hard to manage such intense anger when under this much pressure. We have been ordered to keep our home a quiet, safe place for gd7. She is feeling so sick - headache, stomachaches, maybe an ulcer starting. She is so young. We are so sorry that you cannot be at the house. When you are able to show us that anger treatment is being done and is working, then we can talk about the future. You are able to make it to your meeting with PO before I am able to drive there after putting gd7 on the bus. You can let us know how it went later. We love you always even from a distance."

Would this all fit in a text? The image of her clawing her way up the rope to the empty end, screaming for me and cursing me -- almost too intolerable for me. Will be searching in prayer for that quiet pond floating as a lotus flower - seeking peace.

qcr  :'( :'(  

[qcarolr]

I am on the Bridge, and have been here for so very very long. [someone, please find the poem for me and post in a reply]

Holding the rope with both hands - DD26 is on the other end begging me to not let go, to hold her up from the unknown waters, that she will certainly drown if I let go. She is heavy, oh so heavy in her raging anger at the world and it is all projected onto me. And gd7 is hugging at my waist crying and I cannot hear what she is saying. My ears are ringing so loudly like in a wind blasting past.

I have to save myself, and therefore save dg7 from a certain doom if DD pulls us over with her. All of us will certainly drown. DD is ill - she is sick - she cannot save herself alone. Yet I cannot save her. So I pray for God to have mercy - to bring the intervention to heal DD and our family, have mercy so DD will not drown when she hits the water.

The rope is tossed high in the air and disappears into the darkness below. DD is crying out for me, how can I do this to her, we are family... .  God have mercy on her soul, rescue her as she is a child of your light too. God of the Angel Armies - rescue her.


DD texted yesterday to sleepover at the house Sunday then for me to drive with her to her probation meeting early Monday morning. She is fearful that her probation will be revoked. Yet, she is making the choices to smoke pot and not do UA's, not go to the required 2 hours of treatment per week (class or individual). I understand how stressed she is, and that she has created this for herself. Dh and I said - OK. And then I was so very distressed and consumed with regret at saying yes - locked up with fear. And this was distressing to gd and dh. I finally took a mild tranquilizer and time out til I calmed myself.

My T helped me get more clear today. I am so grateful for her.

I have to get out of the way so DD feels the full weight of her choices. And no matter the illness -- there are other choices she can make. I have to provide a safe, peaceful environment for myself and gd. Dh is with gd and I, he is a rock of self-control yet he gives into me thinking this will calm my worries! We have to stand together and know this most painful decision is the only one that we can make today. I have to become willing to let my worries go. There is no cystal ball or magic.

So how do I word my text to DD saying - OOPS, we changed our minds and you cannot come home Sunday?

She called me today because she lost her phone and her friend had not picked her up when agreed and she was freaking out. I called the friend - no answer. Sent text to him. DD called again demanding I call at that moment. I assured I would before I went into an appt. He answered  - yes her phone was in his car, he had just been there looking for her and was driving away. So he was parking to go find her. This is sign of the extreme level of DD's distress.

After this call, my fantasy of Sunday being OK was crushed. She just cannot come. There is too much risk of her anger exploding and someone getting hurt - more than feelings hurt. She is who she is until SHE CHOOSES TO DO TREATMENT TO CHANGE.

"I feel the intensity of your stress and it must be so hard to understand how dh and I can ask you to be out there with your friends instead of in our home. It is so hard to manage such intense anger when under this much pressure. We have been ordered to keep our home a quiet, safe place for gd7. She is feeling so sick - headache, stomachaches, maybe an ulcer starting. She is so young. We are so sorry that you cannot be at the house. When you are able to show us that anger treatment is being done and is working, then we can talk about the future. You are able to make it to your meeting with PO before I am able to drive there after putting gd7 on the bus. You can let us know how it went later. We love you always even from a distance."

Would this all fit in a text? The image of her clawing her way up the rope to the empty end, screaming for me and cursing me -- almost too intolerable for me. Will be searching in prayer for that quiet pond floating as a lotus flower - seeking peace.

qcr  :'( :'(  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[pallavirajsinghani]

I feel the intensity of your stress and it must be so hard to understand how dh and I can ask you to be out there with your friends instead of in our home. It is so hard to manage such intense anger when under this much pressure. We have been ordered to keep our home a quiet, safe place for gd7. She is feeling so sick - headache, stomachaches, maybe an ulcer starting. She is so young. We are so sorry that you cannot be at the house. When you are able to show us that anger treatment is being done and is working, then we can talk about the future. You are able to make it to your meeting with PO before I am able to drive there after putting gd7 on the bus. You can let us know how it went later. We love you always even from a distance."



This would be such clear and empathetic communication between two nons.  It seems to me that all she will see is a "NO" and betrayal and abandonment and everything negative in her will become refocused once again on you personally.  

So, perhaps it would be better to make it more concise like,  "I am sorry we cannot drop you at the PO.  We love you.  Let us know how it goes."

You will get a barrage of hateful texts, phone calls etc.  Leave home for a while, leave the cell phone home, to give yourself a breather.

Hope others will chime in with some suggestions.

[qcarolr]

I also have to tell her she cannot come to the house Sunday to shower and change clothes. She cannot be here with gd nor I. It is just a toxic mix when she and I are together since I am the black one right now. Dh works on Sunday or gd and I could be gone for a couple hours.

Guess just have to say I am sorry you cannot be here on Sunday. You can get to PO on the bus and call later to let us know how it went. Or I could offer to meet her there but last time she was done before I could get there.

You are right - too many words. But at least I got to share them here -- I mean well.

qcr  

[lbjnltx]

THE BRIDGE - A METAPHOR

"The Bridge"

There was a man who had given much thought to what he wanted

from life. He had experienced many moods and trials. He had

experimented with different ways of living, and he had had his

share of both success and failure. At last, he began to see

clearly where he wanted to go.

Diligently, he searched for the right opportunity. Sometimes he

came close, only to be pushed away. Often he applied all his

strength and imagination, only to find the path hopelessly

blocked. And then at last it came. But the opportunity would not

wait. It would be made available only for a short time. If it

were seen that he was not committed, the opportunity would not

come again.

Eager to arrive, he started on his journey. With each step, he

wanted to move faster; with each thought about his goal, his

heart beat quicker; with each vision of what lay ahead, he found

renewed vigor. Strength that had left him since his early youth

returned, and desires, all kinds of desires, reawakened from

their long-dormant positions.

Hurrying along, he came upon a bridge that crossed through the

middle of a town. It had been built high above a river in order

to protect it from the floods of spring.

He started across. Then he noticed someone coming from the

opposite direction. As they moved closer, it seemed as though

the other was coming to greet him. He could see clearly,

however, that he did not know this other, who was dressed

similarly except for something tied around his waist.

When they were within hailing distance, he could see that what

the other had about his waist was a rope. It was wrapped around

him many times and probably, if extended, would reach a length

of 30 feet.

The other began to uncurl the rope, and, just as they were

coming close, the stranger said, "Pardon me, would you be so

kind as to hold the end a moment?"

Surprised by this politely phrased but curious request, he

agreed without a thought, reached out, and took it.

"Thank you," said the other, who then added, "two hands now, and

remember, hold tight." Whereupon, the other jumped off the bridge.

Quickly, the free-falling body hurtled the distance of the ropes

length, and from the bridge the man abruptly felt the pull.

Instinctively, he held tight and was almost dragged over the

side. He managed to brace himself against the edge, however, and

after having caught his breath, looked down at the other

dangling, close to oblivion.

"What are you trying to do?" he yelled.

"Just hold tight," said the other.

"This is ridiculous," the man thought and began trying to haul

the other in. He could not get the leverage, however. It was as

though the weight of the other person and the length of the rope

had been carefully calculated in advance so that together they

created a counterweight just beyond his strength to bring the

other back to safety.

"Why did you do this?" the man called out.

"Remember," said the other, "if you let go, I will be lost."

"But I cannot pull you up," the man cried.

"I am your responsibility," said the other.

"Well, I did not ask for it," the man said.

"If you let go, I am lost," repeated the other.

He began to look around for help. But there was no one. How

long would he have to wait? Why did this happen to befall him

now, just as he was on the verge of true success? He examined

the side, searching for a place to tie the rope. Some

protrusion, perhaps, or maybe a hole in the boards. But the

railing was unusually uniform in shape; there were no spaces

between the boards. There was no way to get rid of this newfound

burden, even temporarily.

"What do you want?" he asked the other hanging below.

"Just your help," the other answered.

"How can I help? I cannot pull you in, and there is no place to

tie the rope so that I can go and find someone to help me help you."

"I know that. Just hang on; that will be enough. Tie the rope

around your waist; it will be easier."

Fearing that his arms could not hold out much longer, he tied

the rope around his waist.

"Why did you do this?" he asked again. ":)on't you see what you

have done? What possible purpose could you have had in mind?"

"Just remember," said the other, "my life is in your hands."

What should he do? "If I let go, all my life I will know that I

let this other die. If I stay, I risk losing my momentum toward

my own long-sought-after salvation. Either way this will haunt

me forever."

With ironic humor he thought to die himself, instantly, to jump

off the bridge while still holding on. "That would teach this

fool." But he wanted to live and to live life fully. "What a

choice I have to make; how shall I ever decide?"

As time went by, still no one came. The critical moment of

decision was drawing near. To show his commitment to his own

goals, he would have to continue on his journey now. It was

already almost too late to arrive in time. But what a terrible

choice to have to make.

A new thought occurred to him. While he could not pull this

other up solely by his own efforts, if the other would shorten

the rope from his end by curling it around his waist again and

again, together they could do it. Actually, the other could do

it by himself, so long as he, standing on the bridge, kept it

still and steady.

"Now listen," he shouted down. "I think I know how to save you."

And he explained his plan.

But the other wasn't interested.

"You mean you won't help? But I told you I cannot pull you up by

myself, and I don't think I can hang on much longer either."

"You must try," the other shouted back in tears. "If you fail, I

die."

The point of decision arrived. What should he do? "My life or

this other's?" And then a new idea. A revelation. So new, in

fact, it seemed heretical, so alien was it to his traditional

way of thinking.

"I want you to listen to me carefully," he said, "because I mean

what I am about to say. I will not accept the position of choice

for your life, only for my own; the position of choice for your

own life I hereby give back to you."

"What do you mean?" the other asked, afraid.

"I mean, simply, it's up to you. You decide which way this ends.

I will become the counterweight. You do the pulling and bring

yourself up. I will even tug a little from here." He began

unwinding the rope from around his waist and braced himself anew

against the side.

"You cannot mean what you say," the other shrieked. "You would

not be so selfish. I am your responsibility. What could be so

important that you would let someone die? Do not do this to me."

He waited a moment. There was no change in the tension of the rope.

"I accept your choice," he said, at last, and freed his hands.


--From "FRIEDMAN'S FABLES" by Edwin Friedman,

published by Guilford Press

[griz]

qcr:  How can I help you hold on to the rope.  I wish so badly I could.  To give you more strength.  I think shortening the message is a good idea and of course always reinforcing your love for her.  Yes, we have to at some point let go even though every fiber of our body wants to hold onto that rope.  I think if we don;t let go we run the risk of us all going over the edge with them.

Please take care of yourself as best you can.  I will be thinking of you.  

I have planned a mothers day BBQ this year.  Poor DH just found a small job and has to work.  It will just be myself and my mom, who is slipping away more everyday.  I hope on Sunday she remembers why we are together and who I am.  I have let DD know that I am making a BBQ and I am hoping that she can make this a nice day but my guess is that it will be a day filled with anxiety for me.

So I am having you all over on Sunday.  I am baking a cake and I have already purchase candles for me to blow out and when I do you will all be there with me.

Griz

     

[DreamGirl]

((qcarol))

Just want you to know that you're doing the right thing.

No matter the outcome. 

  DreamGirl

[pallavirajsinghani]

Guess just have to say I am sorry you cannot be here on Sunday. You can get to PO on the bus and call later to let us know how it went. Or I could offer to meet her there but last time she was done before I could get there.

It seems to me that this rings of an apologetic tone that is a dead giveaway that you can be manipulated with bullying.  So I would suggest something like this:

"I am sorry we cannot have you here on Sunday.  We cannot drive you to the PO.  We love you and let us know how it goes."

When you a) give her choices, she may get confused and freeze up.  b) again, you are being a "controlling mother" by giving her choices and solutions.

The purpose of letting go of the rope is to teach her how to hold on to the railing of the bridge and slowly haul herself up by the skin of her teeth if necessary.

When you offer her obvious solutions and choices, it may defeat the purpose.

What does your intuition say about my approach?

On a superficial level, my approach appears to be callous.  In this particular circumstance, it is a gesture of love.  You are like a mother bird who is giving little pushes with her beak to the fledgling to leave the nest.  This is a gesture of the mother bird to teach her fledgling to fly.  The bird is terrified.  What is a more loving gesture, to continue to give those little beak pinches or to let the fledgling stay in the nest and never fly and never soar and never come to the full fruition of its being?

It is very hard for the mother bird to accept the possibility that the fledgling may just fall.  This possibility is a more ethical choice than letting the fledgling never have chances to fly.

... .  and I send you warm hugs too.

[qcarolr]

I get so confused between being a loving mom and being a safe person. My T keeps taking my focus off of gd7 as my motivation to protect myself and to focus on what I need to do for ME. I will be taking care of gd by taking care of me. I get this in my mind - too much pain in my heart. Feel frozen - cold.

Think I will wait til dh is home later to send text to DD. Need someone with their loving arm around me to read the reply.

Life is just hard. And I am tired.

Thanks - your ideas are so valuable to get me thinking clearly.

qcr  

[mggt]

qcr, My sincere thoughts are with you as we approach this mothers day .  It will be very hard for your d and all of you.  You got some pretty good advice here so I would suggest re read through them all and decide which fits you the best to text your d.  As you said you could run it through your h first.  Take it easy and do what you have to for your own health lots of hugs and prayers mggt

[Thursday]

q-

How weary you sound, this has gone on for such a long time. If something you could do would have changed this situation for the better, it would have already happened. I can't think of anyone who has loved harder, or more or better.

Somehow, this love we feel for our pwBPD keeps them stuck. Gotta love them enough to let them go. Otherwise, no change and they end up destroying not only their own lives but their loved ones too.

In the end, the best sort of help they can get is to help themselves.

Wish I had more comfort for you. Wish I could reach through the computer and give you the biggest hug.

You are doing the right thing. It might feel awful but it IS the RIGHT THING.

Thursday

[somuchlove]

You have been so strong and supportive to me.  I understand how difficult it all is.  How hard when you know you are doing the best you can and know that you are probably right and it still doesn't help.  When I hear someone say to me,  take care of yourself, i get rather upset.  Taking care of myself means if my dd is ok then I will be ok.  But I feel the need to tell you, to take care of yourself.  You can't be helpful for your gd or your dd if you are not well.  However,  that is so much easier said then done.

You have recieved some excellent advice.  I noted how to respond.  I , too use way to many words, think how I would respond, but have to remember it is how my dd would view and see it.

Sending you hugs and you deserve a huge HAPPY mothers day.  Your dd is lucky that you are so willing to stay in her life and do the difficult things to make her stronger.   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[angeldust1]

Oh dear dear qcarolr,

What a life this is,  the simply phylosophy I live by is "when in doubt don't" It is short but to the point.

You will hurt if she doesn't come,  you will hurt more if she does come.  She is making some very bad choices,  sad as it is,  they are her choices.  We as mother,  want to shelter our children from natural consequences,  but if we do,  we will surely hurt them. 

Just a suggestion,  text her short and sweet,  dad and I have decided against your coming home.  Nothing more,  no excuses,  no explanations, nothing.  Because you know she will be sure to make something of it.  If the answer is just no,  she will have less to blame you for later.

So sorry you have to go through this just before mothers day,  I do so hope things will go ok,  but you do have another child to think about,  and don't think for a moment she is not watching every thing you do with this other child.

[angeldust1]

dear ibjn,

what a beautiful story and so profound.  Yes we are in control of our own lives,  and our life is our responsibility,  no one elses!

[qcarolr]

Well Geez -- DD showed up this evening with friend G. He had his mom's car tonight. She was fine - I left and went to grocery store. They took the 2 doggies on a walk - it is really muddy. Then they came home and gd helped them give doggies baths. I have pretty much refused to do that chore. I brought home dinner from the deli counter - dh , gd and I ate. Then DD and G left.

What an awesomely normal visit.

Dh is saying - we cannot predict the future beyond today. His suggestion is to wait to say 'no' until closer to Sunday let the days unfold. Maybe she won't even show up - often the case on a weekend.

Gd really enjoyed seeing both her mom and G (he had lived with us for about 10 months 2011-1012, another long story with a violent end that is now another 'happy' beginning - DD recycling bf's).

I feel left hanging empty-handed with my mouth hanging open not knowing what to say. Yet - I let go of the rope today. It is gone from my hands. I will trust that I will get what I need to cope with what comes as long as I remember - I am not holding the rope.

My T told me over and over when I called her today (after our session) that I am not the crazy one, I am not thought of as crazy by anyone that knows me -- and she knows some of them. I will choose to believe her.

I am reading some posts about boundaries and detachment and SET. Getting my perspective back. I need to go to bed and sleep better tonight -- have been hearing things going off at night that are not. Like cell phone text alert tones! Think I will turn off my phone tonight.

You all have been so kind to me today - thank you so very very much. I do not know what I would do without you.  

qcr

[pessim-optimist]

qcr... .        

Look to your husband for guidance on what to do this weekend.

Other than that, remember your T's advice, and look to God for strength, peace and wisdom.

Thinking of you and praying for your family.   

[angeldust1]

Since this has occured today, I agree with your husband he seems to be a wise man.

[qcarolr]

Dh is a very wise man, and compassionate. That is what attracted him to me in 1975. Actually May 1, 1975. We got married 9 months later. He has persisted through lots and lots of troubles. Even with others telling him to leave, he persisted. Another good quality. He does blow-up on occasion - he is learning to be aware of his withdrawal coping strategy and expressing his feelings in the moment more and more. And I am more open to listening - really listening. The learning and practicing I have learned here is sifting over to him slowly.

He has also made a very supportive connection with his new boss at work. They can share about anything. This is so healthy for him, and for our marrige. We have been too reliant on each other in our isolation the past 15 years.

He has actually agreed to work through the book "Parenting a child with intense emotions" - well at least the first chapter today. Have to hold him accountable for that promise.

Dh started celebrating Mother's Day with me last night - asking what flowers I want for the yard. He and gd7 were full of ideas. Last year I refused mother's day flowers with chant of 'no money'. We don't have money this year but what the heck - that's what credit cards are for. Joy is worth the cost

We are going to my mom's for a family BBQ tomorrow. To celebrate lots of spring birthdays as well as mother's day.

So life is good for today. Will do my homework from T - buy yoga DVD and do 2 minutes of mindfulness excercise.

qcr  

The first book I read when I came to bpdfamily.com in  2009 was "The High Confict Couple" - DBT for couples. DH did not read it, but did agree to 6 weeks of couples counseling through is EAP at work. It really was a beginning for us to be aware of our listening skills. I suggest it for any parent with BPDkids. It gives a great practice of DBT skills for you as a couple. Was my first exposure to DBT. Here is review:

https://bpdfamily.com/book-reviews/high-conflict-couple#lastPost

[Thursday]

qcarolr-

Ummmmm, there is not a standing ovation emoticon.

These will have to do... .  

             

and

 

and give your husband a big kiss too! 

thursday

[pessim-optimist]

Just read your post on Verbena's thread:

"... .  My struggle seems to be to keep my mind calm and not jump to conclusion that any contact from DD is wanting something from me that I do not want to give. I do feel like the crazier one right now. Because I just don't want to have to deal with any more bullying from her. The past 2 times she has stopped at the house went OK -- I found things to do in other parts of the house or went out to the store... .  And then she leaves without being asked to go... .  

... .  She is stopping over a couple times a week so far to get clean clothes, do laundry, etc. She also has spent a little time with her daughter (gd7 that dh and I have custody for since she was a baby) and walking the dogs. Will this turn into a manageable pattern? For how long?

It makes me sick to feel the need to avoid her -- but there being any kind of yelling I can't tolerate either. Working with my T weekly now to find some balance for myself."

How's is going today? Looks like so far so good?

I can relate to that feeling of dread and 'jumping to conclusions'. I think it is just us reacting out of trauma that we have gone through with our kids. Good for you, working on that with the T.

For me the healing is two-fold: finding the workable solutions for such situations (so I don't have to dread them) and then the letting go of the past stress and hurt.

BTW - I like your new logo (how appropriate - flowers for mothers' day). I liked the other logo too, but was wondering what it was (thought it was a patterned rock)

[parent of bpd daughter]

Peace and love to you qcarolr today. You have been an inspiration to me since I joined this virtual community

You always seem to know just the right thing to do and you have worked so tirelessly with your BPDD.

Agree with others - less info is more regarding why your BPDD cannot come to your home - just a few short

lines - the more you give them - the more they use it against you unfortunately.

Glad you have a good Therapist - good to keep seeing him/her. I have to say, in case it helps,

the years (about 2) that I went NC due to RO against my own BPDD were 2 of the most peaceful

in my life for me and my youngest daughter. Of course, there was pain at times, but not having

to worry about the next explosion or suicide attempt or whatever was wonderful for a few years

at least.

Perhaps that will give you some hope - knowing that letting go for a while can be such a relief -

a little sabbatical from drama that all of us here - especially you - need to re-strengthen ourselves.

Peace to you.

[qcarolr]

I manage so much better when dh is here. He works on Sundays. He has such supreme self-control - a gift! And I am still on the edge so much of the time. I think there is a lot of grieving going on, and PTSD -- both from life for 27 years with DD (her bday is in2 weeks) and from a couple things in my growing up years (not in FOO). The new T is picking up on these very quickly even without my saying anything directly. We are going to focus on the trauma work needed as we move forward. So easy to get caught up in manageing day to day life in sessions and forgetting the internal emotional help I so need.

BTW - I like your new logo (how appropriate - flowers for mothers' day). I liked the other logo too, but was wondering what it was (thought it was a patterned rock)

The yellow/orange avatar is a sunet painting by an impressionist painter - I would have to go back and find it to tell you who. It is very similar to the style of painting I have done in the past. Need to make a space in my house to set up my paints again - DD's room?

So off to meet DD for a home visit with gd for mother's day. gd has written her a card and picked pretty grasses and dandelions and made a sweet arrangement for her mom. Hoping to keep this on the "how's the weather" side. She and I have had such a toxic r/s for many years, at least since she was about 14.

qcr  

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

Talked to D at 1pm to meet her, then come to the house. Arrived 1/2 hour later, texted and called that I was in the lot waiting (w/gd). No reply. W- aited 10 minutes, text will wait 5 more then return home. Called one lsat time - no answer. At 2:10 she calls and wants to know where I am - she 'just got texts'.

Working to not make assumptions if this is real, a lie, or her belief of reality. Said I was not driving back again - she asked me to do this. Suggested her dad could pick her up on his way home. So he is there, she just called. So expect them home soon. She answered his call?

Life is so puzzling sometimes. Hoping for a good evening, night and morning tomorrow. DD asked to stay the night so I can drive her to see her probation officer at 8am tomorrow. Gd's bus comes at 7:35 so can barely make it on time.

Wish me luck and patience and a quiet mind and still tongue.

qcr  

[mamachelle]

 

Wishing you lots of goodness and light!

mamachelle

[qcarolr]

Well so far I have had some patience and a mostly still tongue.

We went to Wendy's for dinner - were nearly done and DD was getting anxious to leave. Gd was talking about catching her first fish and about a little 2nd cousin's bloody nose at my mom's yesterday. OOPS - DD wanted to know why she was not invited -- we cannot just 'sweep her under the rug', and we cannot take gd anywhere without first consulting her... .    She knew we were there, but we did not tell her it was a family gathering. She would not have come anyway. It just felt bad to not be invited. I did not want to risk her choosing to go, so I did not invite her. It would have been misery the whole time.

I just kept eating my salad. And she started harrassing me - just basic rudeness and put downs. So I got up to leave.

I so hate it when she has to draw gd into it - and our custody, and that she is 'not your child'. I just kept quiet -- gd kept quiety -- dh talked about his work day to me on the drive home. Gd got out her bike as soon as we got home  -  she and I went to park where some neighbor kids were playing. Great exit on her part.

DD is sleeping downstairs. Think we will just leave her be. If she is here in morning, will take her to her PO meeting after get gd on school bus. Hope she can just keep herself quiety before gd leaves.

I am so tired of being prodded. It seems sad but I wish the PO would send her to jail, or DD would leave town with bfM. She wants to take one of the dogs with her. We will see how that goes - if she takes him we will not be buying dog food or paying for vet bills. That is up to her and bfM.

Thanks for listening to my ranting. I am really doing OK. Gotta go get gd in the bathtub.

qcr  

[pessim-optimist]

That sounds like a success, qcr.   

You were able to get together, did not have to renege on your word to have her over for Sunday, and - you did a WONDERFUL JOB not biting the bait. 

There will be ups and downs in the future, but yesterday was a success.

    

[qcarolr]

DD did not stay last night - went on her own to PO meeting. He said a probation violation summons in coming in the mail with court date. DD said I can open it and contact her with date. She has another appt with PO in 2 weeks and should know court date by then.

She and bfM took the one year old doggie with them today - I dropped him off on my way to work. Picked him up this evening with dd to spend some time with gd. I told her no friends, she jusr her with gd. I went out for my social time with women friends from church. Then got some food, dropped DD back at apt she is staying at with bfM. She took clothes and food. She is moving out slowly. Seems to have accepted the new routine of not being here except to see gd and dogs and do laundry.

Told bfM we need the money we put into storage unit, so he needs to find a new place for his stuff that is mostly still in our garage. He said he would talk to a friend that might have room. Said we needed that money for DD's commissary in jail. He knows all about that having been in and out of county jail.

So another good day at home - I am being able to stay calm and be direct in what I need with everyone - DD, gd, dh. And at work today.

Now that was a nightmare that is going to be drama the rest of the week. Keeping me from getting my work done. Having to keep telling the owner and his wife that I am not getting in the middle of their disputes. I am not a marriage counselor. I get involved with my management of the money. There are much deeper issues at work here, many years of patterns of ineffective communication, lots of power plays esp. by wife -- it all shows up through the money. Right now the owner has the money and the wife wants the authority. He paid back her investment last year, and somehow she is not accepting this since it went to their househol bills and not into her personal account. She was making some very unreasonable financial demands today. I asked her to leave my office - walked her to the door while she was still talking and slowly closed it behind her. She came back a little later and apologized for drawing me into the middle, then drew me into the middle and left. THen the owner had his turn in my office when wife went to lunch. I walked out of my office and did some other things - like updating our accounting software before they shutdown our payroll service. Now that is IMPORTANT.

Sometimes I wish I had less intelligence and a simpler life. Guess I will have to just keep working for thie simpler life. Any suggestions?

qcr  

[hurtmomma]

Oh My!  I am new to this site. . . and I cried all through your first comments!  I am totally there with you.  I have a daughter with BPD.  And I am holding that rope!  I know for my own good I need to let go. . . but how can I "abandon" my daughter?  But for my own mental health and that of my family. . . I must let go! 

To see someone else going though the same drama that we are is so . . . I don't know.  Like I'm not alone in this.  I also have Fibromyalgia so having the strength to deal with all the drama is not mine.  My daughter make me physically ill when she causes drama.  The stress is "killing" me, so to speak.  I am praying for you as I hope you will also pray for me and my family.  Hang on. . . My T says it gets better as they get older. . . which I pray is so.  HUGS

I see how your reasoning goes, just like mine. . . well today she is better . . . well maybe I can deal with it. . . then she goes "witchy" again and I am in a state and can't sleep and she has done it again! 

[margjo]

Thank you for posting this.  It helped me to understand that if my daughter refuses to do her share things won't change.

Her latest mantra is, Let's agree to disagree on a certain subject. But then adding, given the choice I would make the same one I did.  No compromise there. Just a statement that she has no plans to look at how her choices affect others.

THE BRIDGE - A METAPHOR

"The Bridge"

There was a man who had given much thought to what he wanted

from life. He had experienced many moods and trials. He had

experimented with different ways of living, and he had had his

share of both success and failure. At last, he began to see

clearly where he wanted to go.

Diligently, he searched for the right opportunity. Sometimes he

came close, only to be pushed away. Often he applied all his

strength and imagination, only to find the path hopelessly

blocked. And then at last it came. But the opportunity would not

wait. It would be made available only for a short time. If it

were seen that he was not committed, the opportunity would not

come again.

Eager to arrive, he started on his journey. With each step, he

wanted to move faster; with each thought about his goal, his

heart beat quicker; with each vision of what lay ahead, he found

renewed vigor. Strength that had left him since his early youth

returned, and desires, all kinds of desires, reawakened from

their long-dormant positions.

Hurrying along, he came upon a bridge that crossed through the

middle of a town. It had been built high above a river in order

to protect it from the floods of spring.

He started across. Then he noticed someone coming from the

opposite direction. As they moved closer, it seemed as though

the other was coming to greet him. He could see clearly,

however, that he did not know this other, who was dressed

similarly except for something tied around his waist.

When they were within hailing distance, he could see that what

the other had about his waist was a rope. It was wrapped around

him many times and probably, if extended, would reach a length

of 30 feet.

The other began to uncurl the rope, and, just as they were

coming close, the stranger said, "Pardon me, would you be so

kind as to hold the end a moment?"

Surprised by this politely phrased but curious request, he

agreed without a thought, reached out, and took it.

"Thank you," said the other, who then added, "two hands now, and

remember, hold tight." Whereupon, the other jumped off the bridge.

Quickly, the free-falling body hurtled the distance of the ropes

length, and from the bridge the man abruptly felt the pull.

Instinctively, he held tight and was almost dragged over the

side. He managed to brace himself against the edge, however, and

after having caught his breath, looked down at the other

dangling, close to oblivion.

"What are you trying to do?" he yelled.

"Just hold tight," said the other.

"This is ridiculous," the man thought and began trying to haul

the other in. He could not get the leverage, however. It was as

though the weight of the other person and the length of the rope

had been carefully calculated in advance so that together they

created a counterweight just beyond his strength to bring the

other back to safety.

"Why did you do this?" the man called out.

"Remember," said the other, "if you let go, I will be lost."

"But I cannot pull you up," the man cried.

"I am your responsibility," said the other.

"Well, I did not ask for it," the man said.

"If you let go, I am lost," repeated the other.

He began to look around for help. But there was no one. How

long would he have to wait? Why did this happen to befall him

now, just as he was on the verge of true success? He examined

the side, searching for a place to tie the rope. Some

protrusion, perhaps, or maybe a hole in the boards. But the

railing was unusually uniform in shape; there were no spaces

between the boards. There was no way to get rid of this newfound

burden, even temporarily.

"What do you want?" he asked the other hanging below.

"Just your help," the other answered.

"How can I help? I cannot pull you in, and there is no place to

tie the rope so that I can go and find someone to help me help you."

"I know that. Just hang on; that will be enough. Tie the rope

around your waist; it will be easier."

Fearing that his arms could not hold out much longer, he tied

the rope around his waist.

"Why did you do this?" he asked again. ":)on't you see what you

have done? What possible purpose could you have had in mind?"

"Just remember," said the other, "my life is in your hands."

What should he do? "If I let go, all my life I will know that I

let this other die. If I stay, I risk losing my momentum toward

my own long-sought-after salvation. Either way this will haunt

me forever."

With ironic humor he thought to die himself, instantly, to jump

off the bridge while still holding on. "That would teach this

fool." But he wanted to live and to live life fully. "What a

choice I have to make; how shall I ever decide?"

As time went by, still no one came. The critical moment of

decision was drawing near. To show his commitment to his own

goals, he would have to continue on his journey now. It was

already almost too late to arrive in time. But what a terrible

choice to have to make.

A new thought occurred to him. While he could not pull this

other up solely by his own efforts, if the other would shorten

the rope from his end by curling it around his waist again and

again, together they could do it. Actually, the other could do

it by himself, so long as he, standing on the bridge, kept it

still and steady.

"Now listen," he shouted down. "I think I know how to save you."

And he explained his plan.

But the other wasn't interested.

"You mean you won't help? But I told you I cannot pull you up by

myself, and I don't think I can hang on much longer either."

"You must try," the other shouted back in tears. "If you fail, I

die."

The point of decision arrived. What should he do? "My life or

this other's?" And then a new idea. A revelation. So new, in

fact, it seemed heretical, so alien was it to his traditional

way of thinking.

"I want you to listen to me carefully," he said, "because I mean

what I am about to say. I will not accept the position of choice

for your life, only for my own; the position of choice for your

own life I hereby give back to you."

"What do you mean?" the other asked, afraid.

"I mean, simply, it's up to you. You decide which way this ends.

I will become the counterweight. You do the pulling and bring

yourself up. I will even tug a little from here." He began

unwinding the rope from around his waist and braced himself anew

against the side.

"You cannot mean what you say," the other shrieked. "You would

not be so selfish. I am your responsibility. What could be so

important that you would let someone die? Do not do this to me."

He waited a moment. There was no change in the tension of the rope.

"I accept your choice," he said, at last, and freed his hands.


--From "FRIEDMAN'S FABLES" by Edwin Friedman,

published by Guilford Press

[qcarolr]

hurtmomma -     I am so glad you are here. Things are still hard so many days, yet having understanding ears for sharing my story eases the suffering. And I have learned so much here on how to find ways to take of myself, so I am stronger to cope. And lots of strategies and tools to make that coping work better more of the time.

Oh My!  I am new to this site. . . and I cried all through your first comments!  I am totally there with you.  I have a daughter with BPD.  And I am holding that rope!  I know for my own good I need to let go. . . but how can I "abandon" my daughter?  But for my own mental health and that of my family. . . I must let go!

I see how your reasoning goes, just like mine. . . well today she is better . . . well maybe I can deal with it. . . then she goes "witchy" again and I am in a state and can't sleep and she has done it again! 

So often it does feel like 'abandoning' my D. The truth -- it is protecting myself and allowing her to experience her own life. The choices she makes create the results -- I am just an easy target so often to blame. And then I tend to take on that blame and own it as if it is mine. I have no control over my DD and her daily choices - it makes me sick too.  I have my share of medical and autoimmune system issues that are very much worsened by the stress I carry. Letting go is a process, and it is hard. Because I cannot go totally no contact with my DD26. That is a different kind of misery. But I have let go of the rope - I am able to be in control of myself when DD is being intimidating and get away.

Yesterday was good with DD. There were a couple things she forgot, so I was to drop them off when in town today. She asked to come a get come more clothes - OK. I had an errand to run - she said she could go with me. Then she started asking for money - I said "No, we are not giving you money". She just kept at me, kept at me. So when I was done with my errand at social services (for my gd7 who lives with dh and I) and got in car she just would not let up on this. I was willing to drive her to the food share - I had brought her proof of address for that purpose. But she wanted money instead now. So got out of car and asked her to get out of car. She refused. I walked around the building. Asked her again to get out of car - take bus back to where she is staying. No - she loaned the bus pass to bf (we bought her the bus pass). I said, can you be quiet while I drive you back to apartment? She said "NO", I need $30. So I told her to get out of the car or I would need to get a securty officer to assist her out of car. She said "NO". So I walked toward offices and she followed me, grabbed me ---- a staff person walking into parking lot stopped and asked me if I needed help, could she get securty. I said yes and walked into building with her, with DD on my heals. Inside I kept moving away from DD, she kept following me. The staff person asked DD to sit down and stop following me -- the security officer was there by then. DD walked out. We went out, she was sitting in car. So he asked her to get her stuff and get out of car. She said "NO, my mom is taking me back where she picked me up". I said she needs to get out of my car.  So she got out. I drove home. I did not answer when she called. I did answer when dh called - he was begging me to go help her as she was calling crying that she was in come kind of trouble. So I explained the circumstances. I said "we need to stay strong. she made the choices to get herself into this, and she is resourceful and can get herself out".

This event all feels so intentional and manipulative. Like it is premeditated. And I have so much denial about this -- I get in the 'poor baby with mental illness and learning disabilities can't make good choices". Well today - I did not go to this pity party place. I beleive DD knew exactly what she was planning to do when we had contact before I picked her up. She was going to try to manipulate money from me in whatever way was needed. Asking nice, pleading it was to stay in with her friends and not be on the street, ... .  eventually that i owed it to her as her mom.

I kept my cool today. Just kept repeating my answer. No, I am not giving you any money. I bought your bus pass, pay your court costs installment, pay for you phone. That is all that is budgeted for you. And I bought you $50 of food last night.

She was not going to back down, so I needed to leave. And I did that without losing my cool, and getting appropriate help to make it happen. Then I drove away and left her in the trained hands of the security people. She has left me a couple messages - I can tell she is walking. She is demanding her dog all her stuff and a place to 'put it'. She can have her stuff, we can't stop her from taking the dog (though gd will be crushed as this dog sleeps with her now), we do not have the resources to pay for anywhere for the stuff. We got her a storage unit which up to now she has refused to access. Maybe she will change her mind about that. We will see.

Need to get some work done before gd gets home on bus. Thanks all for you compassionate listening.

qcr  

[pessim-optimist]

qcr, that must have been really stressful, and you did wonderfully!   

I can see from your post that your dd will try and try. But when she saw you were serious, she got out of the car eventually, nobody had to drag her out. That's boundaries working for you. 

[vivekananda]

ah qcr,

I am so sorry I have not been here - but I notice there have been other wonderful people instead 

I am so proud of you carefully stepping aside and letting the security person help you. You did good girl.

When your dd does stuff like that, she is using the skills that have worked in the past. She is doing what works for her... .  it is so good that your response did not get her what she expected. And then when your dh contacted you he was able to understand what had been happening and you weren't split like you have been before. That is so much the right thing to do.

I am thinking of you qcr,

viv     

[qcarolr]

Taking a walk around the county compound helped me do what I needed in control of myself. I told DD before I walked that she had to agree to stop bullying me and yelling or she had to get out of car. When the security officer said he could call the police over to help her get out of car, that is when she complied.

Dh did great -- he actually called me before he left work on his lunch to drive her, compelled by her tears and sad story of 'doing nothing to deserve this' --- ie. being abandoned. I am sure she believed this for herself. She can only change her path when we get out of the way.

All the encourgement I get from you all here - even if you only read - is giving me so much courage. Thanks.

qcr love

[vivekananda]

I am sure she believed this for herself.

of course she did. Her reality is not the same as ours.

Self compassion for yourself, ok? compassion for all others - when you are sufficiently soothed and grounded.

I love your lotus 

viv     

[griz]

qcr:  I am constantly amazed by your strength and all that you do.  I don't have much to add as I wish I had some magical words but I think of you often and want to say thank you for being such an inspiration.

Griz

[jellibeans]

qcr

you handled that well... .  it is hard to remain calm when they are in that mood and following and bullying... .  I am glad you had help near by. At the same time I am a bit scared for you. Her violence against you seems to be increasing... .  please be careful  

[qcarolr]

I am doing OK. Dh is struggling more than I am wanting to rescue DD in her distress. My faith is carrying me through this. I want to share the email I sent today to my friends in my women's bible study group. This explains so well how I am able to be strong in this right now.

Hi my friends,

Thank you so much for encouraging me through a difficult time this year. You are all awesome friends. Please pray for Jesus to find an opening into DD's heart as she is in so much distress. Her actions are so close to being out of control for whatever the reasons are.

Yesterday, after our group, I had to get security to make her leave my car when at a county building. I am thankful for the staff person in the parking lot that intervened when DD was attempting to stop me from this action. I drove away, did not answer her calls, helped DH to not leave work and rescue her after she called him in her distress. God is working in our lives here. I have to limit my contact even further with her, and I am feeling so much sorrow as her mom in this.

She is waiting for the summons to come for probation violation and anticipates some jail time when she goes to court. I know she is choosing this path, she has chosen to follow toxic friends examples that are leading her away from helpful opportunites and into jail. I am praying for God to carry my worries in this and remind me that he is the only one that can lead her, redeem her, have mercy on her soul.

This scripture speaks to me about keeping my integrity whole, and keeping the boundaries that are in place to protect my values.

1 Thessalonians (MSG), 5:16-22

Be cheerful no matter what, pray all the time; thank God no matter what happens. This is the way God wants you who belong to Christ Jesus to live.

Don't suppress the Spirit, and don't stifle those who have a word from the Master. On the other hand, don't be gullible. Check out everything, and keep only what's good. Throw out anything tainted with evil.

Thank you for your prayers for my family.

qcr  

[Reality]

qcaroir,

You are being respectful, honest, truthful and kind in holding to your essence and sense of life.

Reality

[qcarolr]

DD got summons for june 14th today. Biggest point made is her defiant attitude that she does not need any of the treatments order by the court at conviction last Oct. DD's belief she is innocent, has no drug or alcohol problems, or any need for mental health treatments has led her to jail. The PO recommended the full 365 sentence - she will not succeed at any attempts for further probation.

I will try to stay out of her way - not going to be in a car or any small space with her. I fear for my life. She wants money - I fear it is going for drugs, even if only pot. I can text her suggestions, her replies are requests for money for food and rent. I do not have this money.

How to get her family plan phone back - or report it stolen/lost if I do not get it back. Will cancel service and pay the penalty of $375. brand new smartphone - not a good decision on my part when her other one broke. Cancel the storage unit and donate stuff in there - mostly belongs to bfM. Told him to get it out my 5/31. We need the money for DD commissary at jail. Who to let know we will not pay for anything other than commissary - ie. alterntive sentences like house arrest or halfway house. She has medicaid. She will lose her food stamps and county stipend and can reapply when she gets out. Have to work with gd's T on contacts with her mom.

Dh says he just puts it all out of his mind. Why can't I do the same. He is tired of listening. Glad I have therapy tomorrow morning.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

qcr of course she is hitting out. She stuffed up big time and I expect she knows it too. She will want to be in denial, she will want to blame, she will want to hit out.

Your bible reference above (Thessalonians) makes it clear what is good for you to do. Do you have an emergency back up plan if it goes awry with your dd? You did well the other day with the security guard. Do you have other ideas for just in case? We have 4 weeks to get through. Is it safe at your workplace? Is gd safe?

We are with you, take care please,

sending you strength and love and my prayers,

Viv     

[mggt]

Dear qcr , I have been reading all your post I am so so sorry.  I wish I had some good advice but... .  I know what you mean about h my h does the same thing I wish I could shut off all of my feelings but I cant .  Be strong and stick with your boundaries you are doing amazing.  I will keep all of you in my prayers sending you love and support mggt  

[Thursday]

Hello q,

What an ordeal.

Right now, we are hitting the brick wall of SD's defiance and defensiveness and her certainty that she knows what is best. Yep, like a toddler knows what is best for herself... .  an all cookie and soda diet and well, if she gets sick we better take care of her too. This attitude includes pouting and tantrums when she doesn't get her way. Right now she is angry because, in living with her grandmother, now her Aunt is in her business, trying to protect the grandmother from SD's lies and manipulations. (I don't like the Aunt, mind you, she is a mean spirited person at best! so I do get   satisfaction that in her malingering SD is being confronted by the reports from the mean Aunty and SD's "slacker" lifestyle is being questioned and not by ME!

I am looking at the year your DD faces in jail as much needed healing and strengthening time for you. Maybe jail will make a difference in her attitude. Maybe. Meanwhile you can focus on your gd, get some rest and respite and rebuild what has been beaten down.

I think it takes a really long time for natural consequences to come into play and the same long time for our BPD loved ones to be able to feel these consequences in a manner that makes them want to change it up.

I overheard a phone conversation between SD and my husband yesterday. He and I talk about SET (support, empathy, truth) and he was practicing the principles, however, he was sugar coating the TRUTH part... .  minimizing the needed impact by adding modifiers at the end, modifiers such as sometimes, pretty much, might be, could be, maybe. He explains that he fears running her off, their contact is so minimal. Right now, he explains, to see her costs him $. When he asks her to come over or meet him, she complains she doesn't have enough gasoline. I cannot know if that is true or not. Her saying so doesn't mean it is true. It also doesn't mean she is lying. My suspicion is that she is lying. This is due to a past so fraught with lies to believe her now would be foolhardy.

My husband wishes to continue to have a relationship with her so that he can be a positive influence in her life- no matter what else she sees out there, he keeps the window open (if not the door) so that she can for sure, see what a good life looks like, what it looks like when people work hard and are productive and sober and loyal and truthful. I don't think he would continue with her were she to be openly hostile. I see there is a "set" point for him. There are natural boundaries with her Dad and my SD, through her awesome intuitive skills, KNOWS THIS.

When I read your story, I see that your DD works to find the tiniest fracture in the walls you have put into place for protection. She goes and goes like a human battering ram. Only outside intervention seems to influence her to make her stop. If she is incarcerated, you will have some time to get your strength back, to talk to your husband without her next crises, like a frying pan upside your head, making you see stars, confusing him and you, clouding things, putting you both into the FOG.

You will have time to show your gd how a home that is peaceful and composed feels, for a sustained period of time so that she can unlearn some of what she's been picking up on from your interactions with your DD and from her interactions with your DD. My hope is that your DD will get some benefit from programs in jail. My guess is that if she doesn't participate, when she gets out and goes back to same old same old, we will see a Q-family  that is healthier and with boundaries of the unbendy type.

When SD moved to the sober house, her first time out from under our roof, DH promised me she would not be moving back. I felt uneasy, unsure this could possibly be true, for over a year. To call this PTSD would be an overstatement, but truth is, hearing a text message coming into his phone makes my stomach do a flip and I go on full alert. Still. Of course, about half of the texts he gets from her are the beginning of some new issue du jour.

This isn't how it should be.

I think living with or caring about someone with BPD is a super-super-super stressful existance. That's why we need to practice self-care. The world at large isn't handing us any cookies... .  in fact as many here have witnessed, the world at large is sort of blaming the parents and the parents are just searching and searching and searching for something, anything that might help.

Last night DH and I discussed SD's immaturity. He believes she will grow up in ten years. Wow, that would be nice. I am, however, not planning for this to happen. I think it is more prudent to understand and place my boundaries and to get on with living, try to stay in a place of wisdom and compassion and find and appreciate joy wherever it resides. Think of the serenity prayer-

God, grant me the serenity

to accept the things I cannot change;

courage to change the things I can;

and wisdom to know the difference

and how it starts with serenity, because with chaos making hurricanes out of our lives, how can we begin to have any wisdom concerning what is what. How do you know what you cannot change if you are in the midst of chaos.

Sometimes, when I respond to your posts I cut and paste what you have posted. I think you post to sort of solidify your resolve and make your resolutions. With that said,

I will try to stay out of her way - not going to be in a car or any small space with her. I fear for my life. She wants money - I fear it is going for drugs, even if only pot. I can text her suggestions, her replies are requests for money for food and rent. I do not have this money.

How to get her family plan phone back - or report it stolen/lost if I do not get it back. Will cancel service and pay the penalty of $375. brand new smartphone - not a good decision on my part when her other one broke. Cancel the storage unit and donate stuff in there - mostly belongs to bfM. Told him to get it out my 5/31. We need the money for DD commissary at jail. Who to let know we will not pay for anything other than commissary - ie. alterntive sentences like house arrest or halfway house. She has medicaid. She will lose her food stamps and county stipend and can reapply when she gets out. Have to work with gd's T on contacts with her mom

You have a plan! That is awesome. In it I hear your apprehensions and I just want to hug you bigtime.

And lastly, there is this,

Dh says he just puts it all out of his mind. Why can't I do the same. He is tired of listening. Glad I have therapy tomorrow morning.

Don't you feel like maybe you and your husband complement one another with your differences? If you both had the same response, nothing would get done, you would stay in upset land and he would stay in "it's out of my mind" mode.

If he is tired of listening you can come here, give him a little break. My husband constantly tells me he can't keep talking about SD when we are in a crisis. It's so hard to just shut up! no way to do a woman's vent! and so I tend to overshare on here even when I am just complaining and whining.

I guessing that your husband appreciates all of the energy you expend towards your DD because otherwise he would have to expend even more of this energy he guards against depleting. And I know, from your posts, that when the going gets tough, he is THERE, Johnny on the spot, for you.

So, today I am dreaming of serenity for you and yours. I already see so much courage and wisdom.

Thursday

[qcarolr]

Thanks everyone for your love and encouragment. Don't know what I would do without you all here.   

And yes Thursday, I think you post to sort of solidify your resolve and make your resolutions is a good description of a primary use of my threads for myself. Kind of like being my own cheerleader. It is nice to know that others care enough to read and some to reply. I also hope that something of what I share can give something good or helpful to someone else. There is no way to be here as a parent, and survive this all alone. I am so sad with you that our SD is struggling and our dh is trying so hard to hold onto something that may become a mist or fog. It is so very very hard when our BPDkids resist taking responsibilty for themselves. And fail to get that they create the consequences that are pounding them on the head.

I am putting DD last tonight.

I might ramble a bit - gd was up with the birds at 4:30am running through the house with the two doggies (big 60 pounders). I forgot to close her window - there are lots of birds. And howling coyotes - the pups are out of the den a mile away across the open s-space. And getting very close to our house - gd was howling back at them just across the field tonight when dh went out to bring her in for being so loud. She thinks she is being brave - she is scaring me. These are wild animals. Need to get some mace that shoots out 30 feet. I hope thay cannot jump our 6 foot chain link fence.

Gave her Intuniv early at 6 am, and she settled down before bus time and seems to have had a good day. (med for ADHD and anxiety - really helps with the "H" part for her, not so much on the "A" part). She said it was from the excitement of getting to ride a horse today. She is in equine therapy and this is the 3rd session. The first there was snow, the second there was rain and no volunteer horse handler, so today was sunny and hot. She was so quiet, and rode a really big horse. She loved it. We are working out a way to pay for every other week plus maybe some 1/2 day horse camps this summer so I can work at the office. I believe she has a hundred horse figurines from one inch to the big Breyer models. Some from her mom's collection and many from her gathering. Gd is a collector of everything. We are working on the stashes of trash, some with stickiness attached. She hides it now because she knows I will throw it away if it escapes the little boxes and bags that she is allowed (though none of the sticky kind gets to stay if I find it). One of her therapy goals is to learn to let go of stuff. It will be a long slow process I think.

Gd is the joy of my life. She gives me so much love back. She holds my hand now as we walk back towards home from the horse farm behind our house. They so love the dandelions and long lush grasses just our of the reach over the fence. Gd can spend hours there watching them and feeding them these natural treats. I think they are getting to know her smell - they come over for a pet and a treat. I used to sing a little song with her name as I rocked her in the evenings as a baby. I have taken to singing to her again at random times when we are alone together - first name, middle name then JOY. So very thankful we have legal custody so we can protect her from her mom right now. DD would be in the 'take her away and never see her again' mode - that is my intuition.

Dh had a couple days off and now is working the whole weekend. I will miss him tomorrow. He usually has Fri and Sat off, but his new boss has asked for one weekend a month with his family. It works out OK - we get a little extra couple time. He is enjoying my weekly time out with my women friends (for book or bible study or simple social gathering) - Gd is going to bed for him and is asleep when I get home. I realize how lucky I am to have this calm, self-controlled, loving man in my life. And he is so commited to me, protective of me with DD right now. He has stepped up to respond to her - and tonight got the full impact of her current craziness. And he is sticking to our plan - our boundaries. No money. If she needs something, we can buy it for her. NO MONEY. And she pulls out the stops in her anger and vengefulness. And she is working so hard to split us - calling me and screaming that Dh won't give her $20 and saying he told her to ask me and I just told her "you are with him - you has to work it out with him". And guess what - NO MONEY.

She came to the house today and packed up a lot of clothing and other stuff. Dh loaded in his truck to drop her at the apartment she is staying at. She says she needs the money for food and rent. I say they have to wait for her to get her benefits on the 2nd. And her story about what she is doing with the money changes mid-sentence. Sounds like she is needing to repay debts for drugs to me. Feels like meth to me -- the raging. Seems more than just stress or terror of jail, but that could also be it. And our pulling away from her - she probably does feel abandoned. We have to stay safe.

I think she is planning to leave the state to avoid jail. No idea of the how or when. She asked me today if I had heard from "A", gd's daddy. He is in CA. seems to finally have timed out on his parole for violent assualt about 5 years ago - he never did the parole, just waited for the warrant to catch up with him, back to prison for 3-4 months, released to half-way house or relative, never checked in with PO, wait for warrant... .    DD said he has been calling her. I know they have fb contact as DD has mentioned this over the past few months. He last called to talk to gd about 8 months ago just before his last jail time. Gd does not even ask about him any more - he left when she was 18 months old and had been in/out of the home since she was 6 weeks. So I am guessing that DD is planning to go to him in CA. I hope she is OK there, and I hope she goes soon.

I am doing the best I can to let her go. To include her in the worries I am giving to God every day, all day. And there is some peace that settles on me for a bit each day.

Then today she mentions that she wants gd to meet the people she is staying with - she has introduced me to the lady of the house "K" when I dropped some stuff off last week. I talked with gd's T about how to talk with DD about this and that we are not going to let this happen. Not a good thing for gd. T said, it does not matter how you say this to her, she will be angry. Just stick to saying "NO". And she suggests we further limit DD being at our house to zero. Get her stuff out of the house. Yet we closed the storage unit today. It was too small for all DD's stuff anyway. We need that money for other things. I just cannot set it on the curb yet for the donation truck either. Have put the mountains of clothes in big plastic tubs though. Working in that direction. After she is gone - either out of state or in jail - I will tackle her room. We are going to "repurpose" it - this is what dh told DD, but I don't think she took this in. Dh does not want me to communicate these plans to her while she can come to the house - he is wise about this. It is hard for me to feel secretive about this plan. We have to stay safe.

After tonight, dh does not want to be in a vehicle with DD either. If she skips out on jail, we will most likely continue to pay for her cell phone. Will stop paying her court cost installments. Will not have other small costs either. So will have more money to do activities with gd this summer, and maybe do some special stuff when we get vacation in August.

So my verses from Thesselonians 5, I am thinking of the last verse tonight as I am at peace with DD being gone from our lives in many ways, and having the time to figure out how to be strong and not let her move back home again.

On the other hand, don't be gullible. Check out everything, and keep only what's good. Throw out anything tainted with evil.

We are ready to throw out the toxic people in our lives - DD and all her homeless friends. They are toxic for her. She looks so happy, laughing and smiling with them. Good for her to keep moving around - so they do not become the black target for her anger. It will move on from us at some point. At least this is where I am tonight.

Oh, there are positive ripples in the neighborhood with DD and friends gone. Gd is being invited to play again with her friends. I know the parents still gossip about us, but at least they are letting their kids play with gd again. None of them really understood the ban on gd over the past year.

qcr   

[Thursday]

Qcarolr-

I woke up too early this morning... .  I am typically compelled to get out of bed because I so love the quiet hours before the world wakes up. Just me and the birds... .  and I feel a kinship with your grand daughter. If we had coyotes here I would be howling with them too. (and I understand your fear too!)

Q- I am worried by this- it is instinct, a hunch but I got the hair raising on the back of my neck which I try never to ignore and I don't know you or your DD BUT,

she mentions that she wants gd to meet the people she is staying with

You mention that you think your DD is planning to avoid her jail time by leaving the state.

Your quote from Thesselonions encourages you to not be gullible. Could your DD be thinking of getting your GD away from you so that she can take her away? Please be careful.

Please be careful.

thursday

[qcarolr]

Thursday

My intuition gives me the same punch in the gut. Knowing I need back-up to be strong in saying NO to DD about this, I called and talked with gd's T. She reinforced for me that dh and I are gd's parents, not DD. And we get to make the decisions for what we deem to be the best for gd.

Today DD called wanting me to take her to check her phone - it will not turn on. So I told her to get the bus over to the Verizon store - she goes past there every day moving from where she is staying to the city parks where they all hang out during the day. Started with the excuse that dh was at work and gd was home with me. So she wanted me to bring gd and to leave her with DD for some kids birthday party! So a deep breath, and then I was very direct with her:

I will not be in a car with you after 3 weeks of bullying EVERY time I have given you a ride. And dh is in same place after driving you yesterday. --- lots of denails by DD.

Gd is not coming to visit DD in town anywhere. She would not feel safe there, she is very cautious with people she does not know. DD started down the path of "she is my kid, not yours". I said, No - dh and I are her parents day to day... .    She was threatening me

saying she would come to the house and 'take care of me' or something like that.

She hung up on me. I was ready to hang up on her.

I went to a womens spring gathering at my church today. Was asked to share what the group - community - had given me this past year. It was hard to talk with tears and my hands were shaking so much. I got through it all. The most important part is the acceptance and growing friendships I have found. There is so much support here for me. This gave me the courage I needed to be direct with DD on the way home from this gathering.

When pulling into the driveway after picking gd up from my SIL, the neighbor called across the street for gd to come over and run play in the sprinklers with her kids. Amazing - gd so happy. This neighbor was the harshest in her judgements about having DD and her friends in our home. I have come to understand this was about the safety of the neighborhood, the safety of her kids. This reinforces the hard choices and boundaries dh and I are maintaining.

GD home -- gotta go. Thanks for listening.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

I am so relieved qcr, so relieved. Thursday I am glad you vocalised my fears... .  

qcr it's good to know you have your church group and now the neighbours opening up. Your dd will shortly feel the consequences for her actions and I hope she can learn from that. In the meantime, this is indeed your chance to have some peace and strengthen your grounding.

love to you,

Vivek    

[pessim-optimist]

qcr,

good to hear about all the progress you are making regarding your boundaries and the FOG clearing when your dd is not around.

Something caught my eye in your posts. You may be aware of it, just wanted to mention it for good measure, hope you don't mind:

Gd is a collector of everything. We are working on the stashes of trash, some with stickiness attached. She hides it now because she knows I will throw it away if it escapes the little boxes and bags that she is allowed (though none of the sticky kind gets to stay if I find it). One of her therapy goals is to learn to let go of stuff. It will be a long slow process I think.

This reminded me of the reality show episodes of "hoarders - buried alive". Have you seen that show? It is about people (adults) who collect everything to the point that it becomes unsafe to live in their own homes. These people usually have a psychological problem, most often some traumatic loss in their past (bad divorce, death of spouse, too many moves and loss of friends/possessions as children, etc.). And the therapeutic process for them focuses on processing that trauma in a more healthy way. Only then they can move on and let go of things. Otherwise, they repeat the cycle, or get very anxious and angry when other people limit their 'collections'... .  

Your dear little gd has been through a lot, so it is no wonder she 'collects'. It makes her feel safer, comforted and more in control, I think. Hope the T can help her deal with the root of the problem; then the symptom will be easy to deal with... .  

[qcarolr]

AM I GRASPING FOR THE ROPE -- IT IS GONE. THIS IS CRAZY MAKING.

DD made a comment today in our phone conversation. As it keeps popping up, and makes some sense to me, I need to write out for clarity. I feel the need to explain or apologize and cannot come to terms with whether this would help or hurt DD right now.

She stated "How can you offer me an apartment, then take that hope away, and then kick me out of the house the next week"

I have written about this impulsive plan in other posts. We were going to have to invest proceeds from selling our travel trailer - our escape for an affordable vacation -- undertake the liability knowing there was a big chance of the apt. being trashed -- etc.

I wrote out what we expected from DD for the six months we planned to pay the rent. I sat down with her an went over them. She agreed that she would do all these things (follow lease rules, work with community vocaitonal program to get a job, do all of her probation requirements). Then I told her that if she could not pay the rent at the end of 5 months we had to give 30 days notice to leave apt. and she would have to find somewhere else to live. She assumed she would move back home -- I said no. The purpose of the apt. was to give her a start to live on her own. She would not be moving back home.

This was the beginning of her continous anger and agression against me, and now against dh as well since we are not allowing her to split us. Gd is being injured by the fall-out.

Her comment today really made it clear to me that I did set her up with the expectations for how life would be doing this apartment. She has never been able to stick to anything for more than 2 months - why did I expect this to be any different. She was just going through the minimum motions for all the things listed. And now she has given up on it all.

Yet, I want to tell her I understand how painful this is for her, how betraying it must feel to get her hopes up and then feel like her whole life is taken away. Her home, daughter, money, food, etc. that we were providing for her. And I don't feel that badly about these losses to her with the violence of her response to losing this apartment opportunity.

I tried to tell her on the phone today that this was an impulsive decision, and when we got down to doing it - I had this talk with her 10 minutes before we were to look at the apartment - I decided it would just not work. The costs to the family were too high.

So many losses for DD. Yet, she is just too violent with us to have in our home.

Need to just stop the thinking and let it rest tonight. Sharing this is not helping tonight, just spinning it faster. Any ideas?

qcr  

[vivekananda]

oh I'm so sorry. You tried and it didn't work, wasn't going to be able to work.

My ideas are do not justify yourself. I am thinking as I write and will try to make sense... .  

She is thinking with her emotions, she is hurt. She is hurt because she has stuffed up again. She is projecting onto you all of that. She is avoiding responsibility for what her choices were. She knows when she is working with her thinking mind, that there is more to renting an apartment than she 'dreams'. She is like a child dreaming of a life that is like in the movies, one where she doesn't have to do anything, where everything is done for her. That is not life. And you are not responsible for those dreams. You offered her a chance and she blew it. There is no need for you to feel guilty. You were not setting her up to fail. You were giving her something to aim for. If she had avoided the drugs and the 'friends' who bring her down, if she accepted the terms she had been given, she would be on the path to recovery. She chose not to and she is facing those consequences.

Remember the FOG. Remember the skills she has learnt in using FOG to get what she wants, to split, to project, to avoid her responsibility. She is just applying those time tested skills that have got her what she has wanted in the past. Don't let her succeed again. This is a lesson she needs to learn, don't let her get to you, it is not good for her.

If you justify, if you explain... .  you are allowing her to twist the logic so it makes sense to her that you have been cruel again. All you should be doing is applying your boundaries and validating. Just validate when she speaks to you. You need to be able to hear her. You could try to ask her a question perhaps to ask her what she would have done if she were you... .  that sort of thing. But don't get sucked into that vortex of justification and defensiveness. Stay out of the fog.

You are responding with your emotions. You are feeling guilty. Identify in yourself what your emotional need is, why do you feel this way. Then when you identify it, come up with the words to soothe yourself and do the things you need to do to meet that need. Go to your dh and lean on each other and hold each other upright in this. Remember your mantras, stay on track,

love you carol,

Vivek        

[Thursday]

q-

It must have felt so bad to hear your daughter's words and to see how your previous attempt to figure something out for her went so poorly. I am of the kicking myself around the block type, hate it when I make mistakes.

Mistakes, however, are how we learn.

Would your daughter gain any benefit from hearing you say,

"I made a mistake and caught myself before it went any further."

I'm  not sure that there would be a benefit. I would guard against your DD gaining some sort of feeling of superiority over you because you have admitted a shortcoming. If she is anything like my SD she will take it and run. SD is very judgemental.

I like Vivek 's advice. Try to use SET if you chose to address this issue with her,

I can understand how upsetting it was to you to hear that your Dad and I were planning to get you an apartment. I would hurt too if someone offered me something like that and then changed their mind. Your Dad and I had a chance to think about it after we offered this to you and decided... .  and we just don't feel like it is in anyone's best interest.

Give it three days sweetie... .  won't hurt so bad by then is my guess. Won't hurt so bad for either of you.

thursday

[Thursday]

Q-

I just had another thought=

As time goes on with my SD it is important to let go of expectations. For example, if we give her money she will not do with it what we expect. Sometimes she will lie to get the money but if we expect that what she says is true it is likely we will be disappointed. Since it's hard to give hard earned $ to someone so irresponsible that they might use the money unwisely, now, when she asks, we say NO. We do still allow her to work for some $ when she claims desparation but have no expectations that she will do anything smart with what she earns.

We still give her the message of what we would like her to do. Hopes and dreams stuff... .  

If you had gotten the apartment for your daughter and she had done nothing of what you asked, where would you be then? And now that she is likely going to jail for stuff she was doing or not doing at the same time you were discussing the apartment... .  so glad you and your husband got out of that horrible foggy place and looked down the road a bit.

My SD does not live with us, she doesn't have her own place, she couch surfs and has open invitation to sleep at her GMs house when she doesn't have anyplace else. She is unemployed.

In the last week SD has:

been to a first run movie,

watched a pay per view of another movie with a friend,

gone fishing,

eaten out at least ten times,

gotten a large Yobe Smoothie,

gone to a birthday party wearing a new dress and shoes

and gotten a pedicure.

This is just what I know about from facebook. She gets on facebook from her smart phone, the one for which her Dad pays the monthly bill. She daily drives the car he paid for and for which he pays insurance.

She claims that all of these activities are free, paid for by someone else. All of the people who give her money for gas should be gratifed to know that the only thing she spent the money on was gasoline. (?)

I don't know why so many people are funding her lifestyle. She occasionally follows a lead on a job that is given to her by someone she knows, usually someone who is concerned by seeing her constantly on the dole and someone, like me, a little bit bitter that she is having so much fun! and not working to pay for it herself. When she follows a lead she shows up a day late or dressed inappropriately. Or, the minute she gets to the "in person" phase she drops the "addict bomb" where she tells them she used to use drugs and alcohol but she is in AA now.

Love AA- don't really need to tell everyone who will listen that you are daily involved in several meetings. No need to tell a prospective boss about your bottom... .  

I've asked her to think how, if she were someone hiring, she would feel about hiring an addict in recovery... .  do addicts relapse? Do lots of addicts going to AA relapse? How do I run my business? Do I do what I can to protect it? She can surmise the correct answers but cannot relate this to herself.

This is pretty much same situation you have going on. Your DD knows herself enough to get it that at the end of the six months she will get kicked out And she wants it how she wants it, no matter if she could clearly see that if you are trying to protect the sanctity and peace in your home that you would be risking it all to allow her to fail with a paid for apartment and then just move back on home.

Be glad you didn't go there.

I TOTALLY give you a ":)odged a Bullet" pass on guilty feelings

but I sure do understand them.

Thursday

[qcarolr]

Vivek  - so grateful for dh. he is so steady. and he gets the level of violent rage DD is projecting on me. Yes, we have to lean on each other, and it is working like a ray of sunshine in the FOG. Today things are more clear. We are on the right path.

Be glad you didn't go there.

I TOTALLY give you a ":)odged a Bullet" pass on guilty feelings

but I sure do understand them.

And the bullet was coming from my own weapon! Now that is tricky.  Reading the summons from the PO to the judge for the revokation hearing was eye-opening for me. They knew from the start that DD was not interested in doing the probation. Maybe DD was in her dreamland of no consequences. He is recommending to judge the full 365 days in jail. DD had her 6 month allowed to show her intentions with probation. Her claims of not being able to follow a schedule, plan ahead, etc. makes to difference.

I can hope the jail experience pushes her to some desire to change her path - I am not expecting this to happen. Expect an increase in her sense of how unfair life is and how trapped she is as its victim.

So I will keep praying for mercy and planning how to respond in a validating way to the feelings she expresses to me. I will choose to avoid initiating contact with her and focus on making it through the summer jumble with my ELJ (gd EL) as an expression of my Joy).

Side note: forgot gd's Intuniv yesterday. At 36 hours she became totally defiant - would not stay with us walking the dogs. The coyotes are teaching to pups to hunt and they are starting to do pounce and run on children. Two in the news last night. On a playground standing next to mom. So we need to stay in wide open areas with long view, and I need to get some mace.

No walks for gd for a week as consequence for not listening yesterday. Will padlock the gates and lock front storm door if needed. Just as when she was 5. This also shows me some regression in her coping skills. So glad DD is out of our home, no longer undercutting our authority with gd daily.

qcr  

[pessim-optimist]

I agree with Vivek  on the FOG and not getting into justifying your actions.

On the other hand, I think that validating her feelings would be appropriate. When you look at it from her staNPDoint (and you already did) - you see how she was hopeful to be in an apartment you would be paying for, and then, she's suddenly on the street. She does not think about the fact that maybe it was too much for you to afford and that it was unrealistic in the long run anyway. She only thinks about the fact that you offered something and then took it away.

I believe it is appropriate for us to be genuine and acknowledge that when we change our mind, that it hurts the pwBPD.

One caviat - I think it is dangerous to do that, if we do not feel confident we can handle that situation with our skills and where we are emotionally at the time. In that case, I'd just leave it alone, but know that what they are feeling is not altogether irrational.

Ideally, we would know what's best, decide what we will do and THEN tell our pwBPD, and follow through on it. But we also are human, and do not foresee everything, and that makes it harder on our pwBPD. However, that's part of life, and it's ok.

The SET idea seems good to me. I would validate her feeling of disappointment, anger and fear. The Truth part is, that though you would like to help her and have her at your home, it became too violent and unsafe, and therefore no longer an option.

The good news in all this is: you did not waste your precious resources on postponing the inevitable. Your dd is now on the streets, when the weather is much better than it would be in six months. When she goes to jail (hopefully for a year), she will again be out while the weather is still good.

One little thing at the end - do you think you could pack some of her clothes and things and stuff them into a garage or somewhere? I think for her to find out  (now or in a year) that you got rid of her stuff might trigger a lot of new hurt (not saying you should keep it all, but maybe enough of the good stuff, so that she does not feel "disposed of"... .  ?) I know your space and resources are limited, so just giving my two cents. Not sure what's realistic... .  

Hang in there, qcr      

[qcarolr]

pessio - lots of good stuff here

author=pessim-optimist link=topic=200889.msg12256850#msg12256850 date=1368983594]I agree with Vivek  on the FOG and not getting into justifying your actions.

This is hard - part of my integrity value is to be as transparent in my life as possible. Deaing with BPD makes this a time bomb, esp. right now. Have to balance that with safety needs.

On the other hand, I think that validating her feelings would be appropriate. When you look at it from her staNPDoint (and you already did) - you see how she was hopeful to be in an apartment you would be paying for, and then, she's suddenly on the street. She does not think about the fact that maybe it was too much for you to afford and that it was unrealistic in the long run anyway. She only thinks about the fact that you offered something and then took it away.

I believe it is appropriate for us to be genuine and acknowledge that when we change our mind, that it hurts the pwBPD.

One caviat - I think it is dangerous to do that, if we do not feel confident we can handle that situation with our skills and where we are emotionally at the time. In that case, I'd just leave it alone, but know that what they are feeling is not altogether irrational.

Ideally, we would know what's best, decide what we will do and THEN tell our pwBPD, and follow through on it. But we also are human, and do not foresee everything, and that makes it harder on our pwBPD. However, that's part of life, and it's ok.

My own tendencies to be impulsive really get me in trouble with being a consistent influnece in my family. It has the greatest impact on my r/s with DD. What a turbulent bunch of females dh lives with - all three of us are impulsive. Gd and I are conscientously working on our self-control. DD seems to think she has an immunity pass on self-control - ie. does not apply. Reminded of gd's comment in therapy after one of DD's episodes. "My mom doesn't think there are any rules" which started a conversation about "we know there are rules, right?"

The SET idea seems good to me. I would validate her feeling of disappointment, anger and fear. The Truth part is, that though you would like to help her and have her at your home, it became too violent and unsafe, and therefore no longer an option.

Well, for now the safety plan puts lots of delay on my initiating any validating conversation. I am trying to be grounded so can put these skills to work when she contacts me. If I am getting too close to any truth, she hangs up on me with a veiled threat to my life or our house.

The good news in all this is: you did not waste your precious resources on postponing the inevitable. Your dd is now on the streets, when the weather is much better than it would be in six months. When she goes to jail (hopefully for a year), she will again be out while the weather is still good.

This is exactly what DD said when I told her at the end of 6 months she would be on her own. "mom, I would be evicted, all my stuff would be in the dumpster, and I would be homeless at the beginning of the winter. HOW CAN YOU DO THIS TO ME"  That is what really stopped me from going to look at this apartment. She was so right about this -- I had been in denial that it would come to this. In my thinking errors I imagined that DD would participate fully in the opportunites there for her to have a job within 6 months, have her SSI approved, and be successfully engaged in her probation. Super, gigantic thinking errors.

One little thing at the end - do you think you could pack some of her clothes and things and stuff them into a garage or somewhere? I think for her to find out  (now or in a year) that you got rid of her stuff might trigger a lot of new hurt (not saying you should keep it all, but maybe enough of the good stuff, so that she does not feel "disposed of"... .  ?) I know your space and resources are limited, so just giving my two cents. Not sure what's realistic... .  

I really want to rent a 5x7 storage unit for her and put her stuff in there -- not throw out anything. I have wanted to go through all the thrift store clothes she has hoarded, but there was never a safe chance to do this while she was here. It costs about $100/month and we really need that money. Espcially as gd needs to get involved in more activities that get more costly as she gets bigger. Her love is horses - probably not much more costly than some of the sports leagues in our area. I really want to do this for her in a small group environment. That is a major goal in her IEP, to work within groups and relating to others better.

I already have 5 plastic containers (121 gal.) of clothing and that was just what was piled in the laundry room. I haven't even taken inventory of her room yet. For now, we are going to store her stuff at our house. Maybe motivate us to clean out our garage and shed  Several people in our life have said - "Give her 2 days to get her stuff and then donate it".  Gd's T was one. I told her this was against my values since she had no way to get the stuff and nowhere to put it. So dh and I are going to wait to make any decisions until after the court hearing June 14th. If she is going to jail for a year, we can write her with what we want to do. She can call us - we will offer 2 calls per week, 15 min each. They are costly under the inmate prepaid calling account.

Dh asks me to stop thinking about all the details until we know what is happening. God tells me this too - leave the future for the future, the past is done and cannot be changed. Live in today and you will have the skills you need when it is time. He tells me this over and over and over in many different ways. Whew -- takes mega loads of radical acceptance on a daily basis to do it though.

High point of my day -- gd went to church with me today. She brought it up last night in kind of a reverse postive way (I know you want me to go the church tomorrow, right? Well maybe I will go and maybe I won't) I went to Sunday school with her at a new time. We have now explored all the classes and this is the smallest and quietest. She was laughing and playing at the end. She needs so much reassurance that she is not invisible, that the other kids 'know I am playing without my having to speak'. Her words today on the playground at the end playing tag. The middle-aged man leading the class was great with her - including her without any pressure, allowing her to take time-out (with hand signal of T) next to me until she was ready to engage again. I am hopeful I will be singing in the auditorium again soon while she is safe and happy with the other kids. (Gd 'forbids' me to sing durng services, or cry, or laugh, or express any emotion or sound. She is the same way at the bus stop in the morning, riding in the car, ... .  Is this some kind of sensory-integration thing? Where would I get this checked out? Her hearing is normal - had it checked.)

Love you all so much.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

(Gd 'forbids' me to sing durng services, or cry, or laugh, or express any emotion or sound. She is the same way at the bus stop in the morning, riding in the car, ... .  Is this some kind of sensory-integration thing? Where would I get this checked out? Her hearing is normal - had it checked.)

My hearing is normal too when tested, but it can be super sharp and sensitive at times (most times). gdJ probably the same, plus a bit of embarrassment and seeing grannie actively involved... .  

My dd forbade me to sing at home... .  gee it was the only thing giving me joy at the time... .  she was about 16 then... .  ugly anger.

cheers,

Vivek    

[mamachelle]

oh my qcr... .     for you. I've been reading today and getting caught up... .  

(Gd 'forbids' me to sing durng services, or cry, or laugh, or express any emotion or sound. She is the same way at the bus stop in the morning, riding in the car, ... .  Is this some kind of sensory-integration thing? Where would I get this checked out? Her hearing is normal - had it checked.)

My hearing is normal too when tested, but it can be super sharp and sensitive at times (most times). gdJ probably the same, plus a bit of embarrassment and seeing grannie actively involved... .  

My dd forbade me to sing at home... .  gee it was the only thing giving me joy at the time... .  she was about 16 then... .  ugly anger.

cheers,

Vivek    

Could be auditory processing disorder issues. Different than hearing. I think the school speech therapist can test for it or a speech pathologist... .  

  mamachelle

[qcarolr]

mamachelle - I have thought of the auditory processing. DD has trouble with this, though she refused any kind of therapy even as a young child. A call to gd's primary care doc for a referral may be my next step.

I read a excerpt from a new book coming out in one of the women's magazines, maybe Good Housekeeping. By Jeannette Walls. I downloaded her other books - I enjoyed her writing. The first is called "The Glass Castle, A Memior". Such a neglected life of poverty they had. Her parents did not get it that their life was not normal or OK. The kids got out of this loop and the parents ended up living homeless - that is where the story starts when Jeannette is a successful adult and her parents refuse her offers of help. They are OK with their life.

Somehow reading this book the past couple days has given me some acceptance about DD's life. When I see her with her friends, all of them struggling with issues and often homeless or in conditions I could not tolerate, she is laughing and smiling. If things go bad with one part of her 'clan' (her label) then she attaches to others. And within a relatively short time (days to weeks) she is back with everyone. It is a tight group with their own set of values - their own view of reality. It is just so foreign to me. I can see that it works for her. This perception has often been there after a good visit with DD while she has been homeless. [note: when things are in transistion and feel so bad to her - then I am to blame for it all of course.]

DD wants to have gd with her in this life - which will not happen. There are other kids in the house where she is living - she doesn't seem to get the terror this would cause gd to be pulled into this unkown place even for a visit. DD has never been able to see any of gd's needs. In fact gets angry that gd needs anything and that I treat her as a young child and not a little adult. I see that I am stepping out of the conflict of emotions that have torn me apart, being pulled between my two girls. I have yet again just now let go of DD's rope again - the one in my mind.

At our house she feels trapped and gets sad, lonely, depressed. Like she doesn't really belong here. And this leads to the anger. I still have to protect myself and gd. I need to protect the life that fits me - I cannot give it all away. I have to stop fantasizing that somehow DD will change to become who I want her to be. She is who she is.

I downloaded these books looking for a break from the intensity of searching for answers in her label of mental illness and her NLD. This book has led me toward letting go of the labels and my goals for her accepting treatment and 'getting her life together'. Maybe she is who she is, and she can find some level of contentment with herself once in a while. Maybe we offered her this opportunity over the past couple of years while she was back in our home. The DWAI conviction and the pressures to do treatment that she is unable to accept is a big part of pushing her to where she is now. I am very sad that jail or running away seem to be the options open to her.

I will pray for her safety, and mercy (which means the opposite of judgement) wherever she ends up. Dh and I will figure out what we can safely and financially do to support her however she chooses to spend her days. One day at a time.

qcr  

[Thursday]

I've read The Glass Castle too. The parents in this memoir really believed their own hype, was my take on it. They dragged innocent children through the mire of their own inability to live with structure and created a chaos that their children had to struggle to overcome.

q- you are so loving and forgiving and judgement seems not to be a part of your personal paradigm.

In the book, the strength of their own intelligence and resolve is how the three older children cope and escape. The youngest child is ruined by the experience.

In addition to being loving and forgiving and without judgement I see someone smart too... .  smart enough to know that your gd would be traumatized if she were to be pulled out of your secure home and into your DD's world of chaos.

There is a reason for your having custody of your gd.

Sometimes judgement is fair.

Thursday

[qcarolr]

Thursday,

The end of the book, when it is discovered by Jeanette that her mom has had inherited property worth humdreds of thousands of dollars her whole life is the most important statement of the mental health issues of her mom in the whole book. That this mom allowed her family to suffer severely due to her skewed beliefs in "keeping the property in the family forever". And yet, Jeanette still loved and accepted her mom - there was a moment of judgement followed by mercy.

The 3 older kids got lots of loving attention while they were young, even in their poverty. The youngest was neglected from birth -- no opportunity to develop the perseverece for survival. Just my thinking based on what I have learned about attachment and child development.

With DD, I am coming to accept that she truly makes the choics to be homeless now. When we first evicted her back in  2009, yes - this was "our fault". We were the parent birds pushing the baby out to see if she could fly. Taking a big risk for our own survival. And guess what - she did survive. She knows she can survive - she is resourceful and streeet wise. In our last phone call, when she made her standard statement; "This is all your fault. How can you do this to me?", my reply was different than in the past. I said something like; "I don't have that much power. We each make our own choices. You are making your own choices."  She had not comeback on this, and shifted to a new topic.

All things come together for good. As humans we are often blind to this. It gives me peace in the midst of chaos.

qcr  

[qcarolr]

Quick note from work today: another toxic person is moving out of my life. The wife of my boss who has been pushing to be the one in authority for 18 months since she sold her business. IMHO, she has PD of some kind. I hope my comments the past 2 weeks of distress at work were supportive for them to find their way through this. Morale is better overall in shop today. 

qcr  

[ihavehope]

Hello,

I have read your post from the beginning. I'm new to this site and I must say THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! My d24 also takes everything out on me. She was just diagnosed a few weeks ago. I have been living just like you for the past 6 years. My d24 is still living at home and I take care of my gd4. Since this is all new to me still just getting my feet wet. Just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your posts. I had no idea!

[Thursday]

I don't have that much power. We each make our own choices. You are making your own choices

Those are three very important and memorable sentences.

I truly don't want to diminish their importance by speaking of choice in greater detail.

Like your DD, my SD is chosing not to work towards specific goals. My SD will not put forth the effort to look for a job and thus is jobless. If she fills out a single job application per week we are ahead of the game. She accepts a lower standard of control over her life with this choice.

I am conflicted and wonder if my SD's choices, so motivated by fear, are really choices. So much fear of the unknown (if she gets a job she will be the new girl, she won't know how they do things, what if nobody likes her), poor self-esteem hidden by bravado keeps my girl from really being able to choose her path with the same direction and power I know in my own life.

She cannot free herself with reason. I can remind her that she has conquered these fears before but she won't assure herself. She knows that when she is carefully guided, if she gives her hand to be held, she has fewer troubles, her confidence builds and she wants that comfort but it isn't realistic, it's co-dependant, it's a really bad idea. I think she feels like if she doesn't have a hand to hold, there will never be another hand offered. She bites at you when you try to move her, try to say something that might get her over her own paralysis.

I don't know where I'm going with this. Struggling. Last night SD called and said, "I'm going to ask you for money."

She phrases this in such an interesting way. Today she will say,

"Remember my call from last night? Yeah, I'm going to need to ask for that."

The phrasing allows her not to really ask for it, going to need to... . if she keeps this as an idea sometime in the future she might not feel so ashamed to do it.

On Monday last week she started driving an AA fellow to and from work. The deal was 40.00 per day for the two trips and gasoline whenever she needed it.  She has no bills. For reasons we don't know (she is secretive) he no longer will be paying her to do this but last week she made 200.00 and had her gasoline paid for. But by Sunday night she is calling and asking for money.

Her justification will be that she hasn't asked for awhile. Oddly, sometimes this works on my husband. I didn't have the heart to ask him if he is going to give her any money. He probably won't. He will probably let her come over and do work but not until the weekend.

She is stuck. This is the same girl who had a major addiction to benzos and got herself sober. She has had jobs. She's been a long term employee before.

Until she gets a job her life on her own doesn't begin. This is a half-life she is living. But look at it. She's having a ball! And she has an entourage of folks willing to hold her hand... . kindof like your DD's homeless troop.

Sorry for the hijack.

Thursday

[qcarolr]

Thursday - it feels so unfair when our disordered kids seem to be having all the fun, and we carry all the worry.

Ok, so 'all' is a fantasy word. And 'seem to be' is important.

I cannot truly know the distressing moments in my DD's life. She might share these with her friends. Most likely she holds them tightly in secret as sharing often comes with a price.

I met with school social worker today to discuss gd's summer plans - summer school, etc. She made a comment to me after I had shared with her for about an hour. "QCR, love for you is so painful. Love is not painful for everyone." My reply, "It is hard for me to believe this."

I still have to ponder on these statements. They feel really important.

We live our life loving our kids with all we can muster. And the paradox is we have to take the risk to let them go. They are the ones in control of their lives, whether they choose or allow 'non-choice' to choose for them.

I can only survive, to be here for others in my life too, if I find the boundaries that can protect my values and my safety. It is easier in the moment to give away my power and give into DD's request/demands. But I know that this does nothing for either of us in the long run.

My prayers are for someone to connect with her and open her to accepting the resources and opportunites there for her. It will not be her family at this point. And like your D, there always seems to be someone willing to be her victim/rescuer in the friend pool.

Deep sadness, grief. But my despair has lessened as I am letting go more and more.

See from email I got from Verizon that DD made it there to get her phone working - not sure what the problem was. See, I stayed out of the way and she got it taken care of without me.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

Ok, I think I understand what you are both speaking of. I know I 'get it' but also I am trying to tease out meanings.

Choice. We all have choices. I recall referring to the feeling of compulsion to do something I didn't really want to do as a 'forced choice'. I also am familiar with the idea that there are things we have to do and things we want to do and that they are not necessarily the same. While I think these ideas have a truth in them, I am not so sure if they are helpful any more.

If I embrace the concepts of mindfulness and (self) compassion, then I embrace every choice I make. If I don't open myself to being mindful and compassionate, then I am in a situation of possible forced choices or doing things I have to do.

I feel this is getting deeply philosophical... . so, if I allow myself to be happy, no matter what life brings: if I practice radical acceptance, if I let go of ego and attachment to 'worldly' things, if I open myself to the universe and its higher positive energy - then no matter what happens, no matter what I do, it is.

Now, our beautiful adult children as adults are responsible for what they do. There is a world that tells them how to behave, it isn't just us. Because they are hurting and dealing with the confusions in their heads they make what we consider poor choices. This is a judgement on our behalf. This is a 'moralistic judgement' that says she is making bad choices. This is an expression of our needs and values.

This is a great dilemma for me. I can see that my opinion that dd's choices are poor choices is a 'moralistic judgement' and that this blocks my capacity to communicate with her and have a sound relationship with her. But I also see the pain that those choices bring her.

So, I return to that which will bring me happiness: mindfulness (acceptance, detachment, being one with the universe - all in the present) and compassion with a plan on how to life my life. Worry is a wasted energy. Worry about what will be is too.

If love is painful, is that because our expectations are not being met? Our needs and values violated? Is it because the assumptions upon which we base our relationships are flawed? Do our dd's drag us down with their expectations of us and the behaviour towards us, is that because our boundaries are nebulous?

I don't know. I do know that my dd is a legal adult and lives as an adult who makes her own decisions. They are definitely not the ones I would make (but then so many people make decisions I wouldn't!). She has all the support at her arms reach, if she wanted. For whatever reason she doesn't want that. So, I work on achieving my happiness and developing a good relationship with my dd (boundaries and validation) so that when she is right, I can help. 

Thank you for your posts to help me get back on track,

Vivek        

[qcarolr]

DD and her friend G (he had his mom's car) stopped by without warning about 4pm today. She brought some food and cooked a casserole. Said she wanted to do some laundry. Dh got home soon after she came. Then G had to leave (he is on ankle bracelet monitoring and had to be home within about 15 minutes per DD) and DD asked for a ride back later. Dh said OK. Then she asked to take 'her dog' - ie. our dog that is friendly. We said no. She had suggested trading dogs - she wanted a dog with her (she is homeless though staying at friends apt.). We let her take dog for visit early last week, and they all had a good time. But they have no money for vet., right food, etc. and the household already has lots of people, cats and a dog. We have trouble being direct with her out of fear of violence for her.

She started out arguing that we had traded dogs and we could not stop her from taking him. But we would have to drive her and dog to town as G cannot have dogs in his moms car! It quickly became a power struggle and we asked her to leave immediately with G. She did. She took the casserole with her. Sad that we could not have a meal together in peace.

Feels like she wants me to rescue her. That bringing food would draw us closer to her. I know she is scared about going to jail - they really do not care if she can't follow procedure to not. She has to fill out forms, which is hard due to her learning disability, to get any services. She has to initiate.

Feels like I am unable to be validating - I am so disappointed in her inability to do the probation. Disappointed in myself for holding expectations that some miracle would happen for her to accept the treatments and realize they could make her life better.

She believes she is innocent of DWAI charges, had a bad lawyer (which I do agree with), and judge could see her attitude and gave the maximum sentence with long probation period ( 2-4 yeras) and longest jail sentence lawy allows (one year) upon failure to do probation. I expect no mercy when she goes to court.

I got the summons letter - gave DD the date, she has not asked to see letter which is her pattern of avoiding the truth. She only wanted me to tell her the court date. My belief is she needs to know what is in the letter to know what to be prepared when she sees her PO June 4th and goes to court June 14th. But I do not want to give her this info in person - do not want to risk getting hit. Dh says to leave it. She does not want to know the truth set out clearly.

Feeling so sad that I cannot give her any comfort. Prayin for her to find solace somewhere else, and help to get a public defender to speak for her in court. A competent one - the one at trail did not present any defense at all.

Maybe I am asking for advise about summons. Maybe I am sharing my sadness and pain. Thanks for listening.

qcr