A potentially fatal development

[RestlessWanderer]

Things have stabilized a bit. Though that is a completely relative state that would sill be way off in a nonBPDrs. We took our son out trick-or-treating last night (there were a handful of places nearby with drive up treat giving). It was important for us to take him since a year ago my wife was in the hospital and our son was with my brother’s family.
Overall it was a nice night. Our son had a good time, ate too much candy, and stayed up late with us watching Halloween movies and eating pizza.
Whenever we have times like these my wife takes the opportunity to remind me how our marital troubles are in large part my fault. She likes the line “I’m not fighting with you but...” she will usually list a few things that I have done or forgotten to do and connect the dots to support her claims. Something I’m sure many of you can relate to. Refuting these statements is futile and will lead to an argument. So I stay quiet, thinking to myself how wrong she is about me. Lately her thinking like this has created a negative feedback loop. She will believe that I cheated and lied, and therefore can’t trust anything I say. Then if she asks me something and I don’t give the answer she wants, it will tailspin.
I can see this happening again and can do nothing about it. I try to find ways to still show kindness. But I fear that she is falling into a depression that is hurting her body in different ways. She creates so much stress mentally that her insomnia together with her physical pain limit her sleep to very unhealthy levels. Yesterday she showed me two lumps in her breast and she went on to tell me that she’s not going to seek medical attention. She has been through chemo before and the doses she had were small compared to what she thinks she would have to endure for this. She says she would rather her son not see her wither away to nothing. She lost a dear aunt this way as a child and the mental image is still with her. She doesn’t want this for our son.
Last night while out we ran into her godfather and his daughter. Our conversation lead to the loss of our son last year and the other woman turned the dialogue towards god. Since the accident happened we have not been very receptive to this line of thinking and have had some strong reactions to well meaning but ill timed condolence giving. Due to the relationship and respect for these people my wife bit her tongue. During this conversation the other woman made a comment about my wife needing to forgive the other driver and herself. She told her that holding on to so much anger will only kill her, give her cancer, and hurt her soul. This comment stuck with my wife and she brought it up later while we were driving home. Basically correlating me, her stress and anger, and now her health issues, supported by the words of the woman earlier in the evening.
It seems like my wife is giving up in many ways. I’m trying my hardest to be good and not make things worse. As many of you know, this is very difficult when pwBPD perceive the smallest things as personal slights or offenses. I don’t know if I will ever figure out a better way of communicating and interacting with my uBPDw. I may already be doing the best that is possible given her mental state. But I think if she is actually letting cancer slowly kill her, divorcing her now and putting my son in a position to watch that unfold while I go about me life separately could cause far worse damage to him than growing up the way things are.
I am making this choice to remain after weighing the options. It’s not going to be easy. I know I will be fine, I always am. But I need to give my son the best chance at developing that same resilience and positive thinking that I have.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[AskingWhy]

Be strong in all this.  Weigh the factors with your son, and make the best decision for you and your children.  You have been through enough grief.

I am sorry about your W.  pwBPD have a way of destroying themselves.  My uBPD H has a uBPD D who is addicted to drugs.  She makes and breaks friendships, dates many men, has had several car accidents (likely to the drugs in which her F has bought her new cars, enabling.)  Nothing H has offered to her have helped.  He even offered to pay for her rehab.  (He has a son who is drug addicted and on the streets.)

BPD does not make sense.  pwBPD are caught in their own drama and world of their own making.

 

[formflier]

If you are "fine", then what is your purpose for coming on these boards and learning more about BPDish stuff?

I'm assuming since you didn't mention it and you are doing stuff with her..she has put the money back and you have boundaries in place to prevent against that ever happening again.

Best,

FF

[globalnomad]

If you are "fine", then what is your purpose for coming on these boards and learning more about BPDish stuff?

I'm assuming since you didn't mention it and you are doing stuff with her..she has put the money back and you have boundaries in place to prevent against that ever happening again.

Best,

FF

Hey formflier. I've always learned a lot from you on these threads and really appreciate your respectful contributions here. That's why I was a little puzzled by your response to RW. I can only speak for myself, but living with a partner who suffers from BPD is often a bewildering experience -- some days I feel "fine" and some days I don't. It's a bit of a rollercoaster. Just because I feel "fine" one day doesn't mean there is no longer a purpose in me visiting this site and learning more about BPDish stuff. There are always new skills to pick up.

I'd also note that there are times I've gotten great advice on here that I just wasn't quite ready to implement (sometimes for complicated reasons), even if it was something really important to address. It's great to be challenged because we all have blind spots, but I think there is a fine line between that and shaming someone for not taking a certain piece of advice -- or not reporting back on it.

Anyway I have gone on for too long already. Can't speak for RW but I just had a negative reaction to your response. Apologies if I misread the tone.

[formflier]

Anyway I have gone on for too long already. Can't speak for RW but I just had a negative reaction to your response. Apologies if I misread the tone.

No apologies necessary...let me clarify.

I try to be succinct, sometimes that leaves out way too many words and a concept gets missed.


One thing that many of us do (I certainly do, although I hope I do it less now) is "lie to ourselves" or perhaps that's a bit strong language..."whitewash a situation" that shouldn't be whitewashed.

Most of the time what we write here is a reflection of our inner monologue and if things are "fine", but they really aren't, the most likely impact is inaction or rest...when action should be taken.

There is also this thing that pwBPD do/contribute to. 

Have you noticed that nothing EVER gets solved?  Just move from one crisis to another.  "Oh that money I took was so last week...this week xyz...forget about the money..it's fine"

Many of us jump from crisis to crisis with brief stints in "fine" or "normal" (usually based on things the pwBPD are doing)

Lastly:  Perhaps there is a big hole in the story and things really are fine (so there is a legit question there...something I don't understand)

Big picture:  For a long time Restlesswanderer has been reacting to the drama of the moment from his pwBPD.  I'm hoping to nudge him to a place where she reacts to him.  That's when I think things will start to get real.

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Those of us who are navigating relationships with pwBPD may well overestimate our abilities to cope with the erratic behavior we experience and may underestimate our needs for self care.

Dealing with anyone with a personality disorder can be exhausting and it’s easy to sweep that under the rug and say, “I’ve got this” or “I’m fine.”

I know there were times I didn’t want to look clearly at myself and how I was coping with my extremely difficult ex husband, for fear of opening that door of unprocessed emotion and being swept away by the flood of anger, sorrow, and despair.

So I said, “I’m fine,” to concerned friends and soldiered on, hoping that things would somehow get better.

[formflier]

And also...

I should have made it clear there was no "snark" intended or weird tone.

Yes...feelings matter, so even if you feel "fine" we want to develop the ability to compare our feelings to "objective reality".

If they match...all good.

If they don't, then most likely we have work to do.

Best,

FF

[globalnomad]

FF - Thanks for clarifying. Your explanation makes sense to me, and I can certainly relate to that feeling of just moving from one crisis to the next without necessarily resolving anything. That's not always easy to see in the moment. It helps to have some distance and perspective.

Sorry if I have hijacked this thread. I hope we hear more from RW.

[RestlessWanderer]

I am resilient. I might get knocked down but I always get back up. My rs with my uBPDw knocks me on my heels quite often, and sometimes it knocks me on my butt. But I get back up, dust myself off, and I don’t lose myself or who I know I am. So, when I said “I will be fine, I always am” that’s what I meant.
Many times when I do get knocked on my butt, BPD Family is the friendly supportive hand that pulls me back up and points me back in the right direction. Sometimes BPD Family gives me a slap across the face to help me see straight. And every once in a while that slap can be a little too hard.

[formflier]

What's the status of money?

Apologies if I come across sometimes as "too hard".  If anything need clarifying...open book..anytime.

I'm a military guy, so my analogies tend to go in that direction.  

So...let's take it as a given that pwBPD will "take shots" at you and right now...many times those knock you on your butt.

What would it be like in the future if you could be "hit"...but it would be a glancing blow and ricochet away.  Sure it will likely still be scary...but in terms of real damage, you will feel secure that you can survive the shots...even perhaps come back to win the war.

https://youtu.be/q21AazXT9xo

Look at about 1:25 to 1:30 or so...the tank gets hit, but no real damage is done.  

How do you feel about building up your "armor"?

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

From 30k’ I think the money issue (a couple hundred) was a move to feel empowered and in control. As evidenced in the beginning of this thread, her stress is growing.
I’ve overseen our finances for years doing things the way I see fit. She doesn’t always agree and expresses that since I don’t tell her what the balances are or what the bills are then I must be hiding something.
Regarding opening a new account and moving my direct deposit there, I understand why that is being suggested. And it’s not a bad idea. But to me it is in direct conflict with the concept of not making things worse, or not making more problems. Until last year we didn’t have a joint account. This was degrading to her. While the move she made to take the money out of the account was her way of displaying power, and could have been a taste of things to come. I’m going to take a more passive approach. This may be a mistake. Or it may not. Moving the money to a new account will protect it. But it will be an aggressive move that will certainly add a $#*+ ton of fuel to the fire and would likely cause it to burn hotter than ever.
I understand why it’s being suggested but I just don’t feel like it will do anything but make my life worse.

[formflier]

Worse in the long term..or short term?

Big picture question:  Should our actions have consequences? 

You obviously are considering your actions and how your wife feels about it?  Does your wife do the same?

Perhaps she believes you are ok with her taking the money?  After all...did her life "get worse" because of it?

OK...let's look at this another way.  If I understand correctly there were no joint accounts for the majority of the marriage.  Then last year she expressed herself about it...a joint account was created...and doing that made her feel better and your relationship is dramatically better...right?

Asked another way...how did your relationship change due to creating and using the joint account?

If you could time travel back...would you do it the same way?  Why or why not?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

RW, I’m looking at the situation you presented from two perspectives. One, perhaps it’s an inconsequential amount of money and you understand her motivation to feel more in control, so it could be easier to let this infraction slide rather than confront it.

On the other side, if she doesn’t have consequences for acting out in inappropriate ways, then perhaps she will be emboldened  and do even worse things. And possibly if she had been held to account earlier in the relationship, you wouldn’t have experienced some of the bad behavior that you have become accustomed to.

[formflier]

  And possibly if she had been held to account earlier in the relationship, you wouldn’t have experienced some of the bad behavior that you have become accustomed to.

Ding ding ding...we have a winner!

So...I take $100 from Cat Familiar...she doesn't want to cause a stink, so she lets it slide.

A month later I slip a grand out...and I'm very emotional.  She can make it up quickly...so it slides with some "side eye" which I don't catch.

Another month and I really want a car...so I slip 10 grand out and I'm so happy with Cat F and I take her for a ride in the car.  It's been so long since she has seen me happy...and she likes the car, so she let's it slide.

Another month and I decide a big RV is for me...so I grab 100 grand.  Of course I pick up Cat F and show off my new purchase...she's kinda silent and I assume she is just overwhelmed by my manliness and good judgement about how to spend her money.

Another month... and I pull out a cool million.   That Cat Familiar is a handy money maker to have around.  Before I can spend it she files for divorce and discards me because she is tired of me taking money without asking.

I'm truly perplexed...asking?  Why on earth would I do that?

So...RestlessWanderer...who trained me to take money in the way I did...in this story?

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

Ding ding ding...we have a winner!

So...I take $100 from Cat Familiar...she doesn't want to cause a stink, so she lets it slide.

A month later I slip a grand out...and I'm very emotional.  She can make it up quickly...so it slides with some "side eye" which I don't catch.

Another month and I really want a car...so I slip 10 grand out and I'm so happy with Cat F and I take her for a ride in the car.  It's been so long since she has seen me happy...and she likes the car, so she let's it slide.

Another month and I decide a big RV is for me...so I grab 100 grand.  Of course I pick up Cat F and show off my new purchase...she's kinda silent and I assume she is just overwhelmed by my manliness and good judgement about how to spend her money.

Another month... and I pull out a cool million.   That Cat Familiar is a handy money maker to have around.  Before I can spend it she files for divorce and discards me because she is tired of me taking money without asking.

I'm truly perplexed...asking?  Why on earth would I do that?

So...RestlessWanderer...who trained me to take money in the way I did...in this story?

Best,

FF

I hate to jump in here, especially with not knowing RW’s money story, but simply to reply to you FF.

For starters, I take your point.  Boundaries.

I would argue, however, that Cat didn’t train you, FF, to do anything. Never in a million years would I take advantage of another human as you illustrate, let alone someone I profess to love.

See, I believe in your scenario, Cat (sorry Cat) would have innately been capable of taking advantage. Yes, your lack of boundaries allowed it to continue/progress. But most people wouldn’t take advantage like this in the first place.

Yes, boundaries are needed but it feels somewhat placing blame on RW for his W’s willingness to take advantage. That is on her in the first place.

And I would echo that some people’s situations are far more insidious than others and often people are doing the best they can with what they have and with their own objectives and tolerance.

I’ve had the struggle to understand and it took me a long time to see my part in it. Lack of boundaries for sure, but I do NOT feel responsible that my H’s reaction to whatever slight slight he perceives is to rant vile nasty things and break dishes/decorations, etc. I never respond in kind, I simply don’t behave that way. I didn’t know how to respond (lack of boundaries) but it didn’t make my H able to cross a line that most people would never.

I can’t be responsible for me and him too.

I know you’ll refute this and perhaps a hairline distinction, but I want to be clear that I do not believe RW trained his W to sneak money(?) she wouldn’t have done on her own. Could he have put it to an end? Perhaps. Would she have found another release? Most likely. Just my opinion.

[formflier]

  That is on her in the first place.
 

I 100% agree that it's "on her" (rw wife) in the "first place". 

Who is it "on" in the "second place" and third...and fourth.

Yes there is a point here about boundaries, there is a larger point here about how we communicate with each other...especially with nonverbal/implicit communications.

Thoughts?

Seriously though...I'm 100% with you on "the first place".  Let's be explicit about "the second and follow on places".

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

There’s a similar issue in so many of these stories. The person with BPD does something so outrageous and unthinkable for the non, that the non is completely blindsided and has no idea how to respond.

Many times the non tells him or herself that this weird behavior is a one-off and if I just ignore it, maybe it won’t happen again.

I did that in my first marriage, beginning with verbal violence, then physical violence, and infidelity.

I couldn’t imagine treating someone I allegedly loved that way. And when he apologized afterwards, I believed he’d seen the light and wouldn’t repeat those behaviors again.

How wrong I was!

So I wouldn’t say I trained him to do those awful things, but I did train him to know that I would tolerate it and believe that he was appolgetic about behaving those ways.

If I could go back in time, knowing what I know now—not that I’d have any desire to ever be around him, but merely as an academic exercise...here’s what would happen.

He would make some critical remark about me and I’d think about it and look for anything valid in what he had said and address that. I would also address how he said it and would let him know that criticism is fine; demeaning language is not.

Any physical violence would be met with a 911 phone call and should it happen again, that would be the end of the relationship.

Infidelity one time possibly could be forgiven if there was sincere remorse and regret. The second time would be non-negotiable.

In sum, I do believe that we can “train” our partners to be abusive and by the same reasoning, we can also train them to be respectful.

It comes down to how we feel about ourselves and what we feel we deserve. If we feel we deserve to be honored and valued, we will not tolerate behavior that is unkind. Period.

[AskingWhy]

It comes down to how we feel about ourselves and what we feel we deserve. If we feel we deserve to be honored and valued, we will not tolerate behavior that is unkind. Period.

I agree with this a lot, Cat, as my uBPD M utterly destroyed my self esteem as a child.  No wonder I got picked on so much in my childhood and teen years because I had that persona that NPDs like to pick on.  The NPD children saw this and got their thrills abusing me.

Likewise, I had one uBPD H and current H is uBPD. 

[I Am Redeemed]

Basically, the saying goes that we teach people how to treat us. Meaning, we teach them what we will and will not tolerate.

If I took out a loan from a bank and did not pay it back, would I be able to go back to the same bank and get a second or third loan? Likely not. If the bank hypothetically did continue to give me loans when I had no history of making payments, then they would hold some responsibility for their decision to keep giving me loans when I have demonstrated untrustworthy behavior.

If we hesitate to set boundaries out of fear of what the other person might do, it teaches the other person that Fear, Obligation, and Guilt work.

[RestlessWanderer]

While I understand the recommendations being made for establishing boundaries and the logical predicted response of respecting these boundaries-modifying behaviors, any boundaries I have set in the past have not been respected. She feels so justified in her actions that I don’t anticipate being able to inspire any change whatsoever.
My wife has been hurt by so many men in her life, she now perceives nearly everything that I do as having some veiled motive. Just this morning I wanted to run to the post office to mail some late Halloween cards from my son to his cousins. She is certain that I used that as an excuse to check for some package that I don’t want her to know about. If she asks me something and I hesitate for even a second to consider my response, then I must be contriving a lie to cover my tracks. So, basically, unless I am behaving as her model husband I must be fulfilling her perception of a “typical male.”
Unfortunately, over the years I have responded to this as trying to prove myself to not be her negative image of a man. This has taught/trained her that I can be intimidated and manipulated to suit her. I have also been taught/trained that she will respond negatively (understatement) to so many things that I have changed my behavior to avoid this.
This toxic environment is so deeply ingrained in both of us, I don’t believe that I alone can change it by standing my ground in boundaries or any other method recommended by the tools here. The more steadfast I am, the harder she pushes back. Which leads to her starting more arguments. Which I don’t want my son exposed to.
Logically, I should just get out then...right? Then I will have to fight for time with my son. I would most likely eventually win that fight. But how long, and how hard would that fight be? My son would really be the only victim here. So I choose to stay. I choose to spend every day with my son. I choose to sit in this crazy storm just to be able to be with my son. I choose to try my hardest to not make things worse (but even checking the mail is a ruse). I choose to wait for her to decide it’s time for a divorce, because at least this way she won’t be convinced that I am kicking her to the curb.
If anyone else walked a mile in my shoes, they may understand why it’s so hard to push for change and why opting for a peaceful/passive/patient approach is the path I choose. As with everything in my relationship, I’m doing my best and choosing what I perceive to be the best option. I will never be able to fully describe what my world is like day in and day out, so my choices may not make sense to others, however similar their situation may seem. It is very complicated and very fluid, and I will always assume the best out of people. Maybe that’s naive, but it’s my nature.

[Cat Familiar]

Just to clarify, boundaries are behaviors that you do, and do not involve your partner’s cooperation nor respect there of.

Of course she feels justified in her actions/beliefs. She has a personality disorder. This is by definition.

And you’re right. You may not inspire any change in her behavior.

But that is not the point. What is the point is that you can make change in your own behavior so that whatever she does does not impact you nor damage you as much.

Certainly staying in a relationship with a BPD/NPD is challenging and difficult and much less fulfilling than being in a relationship with an emotionally healthy individual. But you have made your choice and that is to stay for the sake of your son.

In reading your response, and the thought that we don’t understand how difficult it is to change longstanding patterns with a spouse who is relentlessly abusive, I think you are underestimating the wealth of experience of members here.

Of course it’s much easier to deal with a partner who only has BPD or NPD traits, rather than one who is willing to go scorched earth.

But change is indeed possible. You say the more steadfast you are, the harder she pushes back. Well, yes, that makes sense because ultimately you fold, don’t you?

I’m not saying that you should participate in arguments, and I certainly believe you shouldn’t, especially in front of your son.

But at the same time, couldn’t you say something like “I’m willing to participate in this discussion only if we can be respectful to each other.” And if she cannot, then walk away.

I know this sounds simplistic, but if repeated over and over and over, you might actually have a respectful conversation at some point.

You want to stay for the sake of your son. You want to avoid a contentious divorce battle. And at the same time, you refer to your relationship as toxic.

This is the environment your son is seeing as he grows up. You are modeling the behavior of what it means to be a man to him and how adult relationships work.

I’m concerned about your approach to be passive and hope that her better angels prevail. Has it worked up to now?

[formflier]

  any boundaries I have set in the past have not been respected.

Boundaries aren't about getting her to respect them.  Or agree..or whatever.  She is not involved.  (yes..kinda if she chooses to bang into the boundary repeatedly...but that's her decision).

Can you give examples? 

Boundaries should not require "respect", although I do agree life would be easier if she did respect them.

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

I think you are underestimating the wealth of experience of members here.

Thanks for your thoughtful response Cat. I’m sorry if that’s the impression I gave. I have been feeling very frustrated with how things are going and the amount of negativity is hard to hear. I am so grateful for the knowledge and experience here on this site. It helps me every day. I check in constantly and read through many different posts and articles searching for nuggets that can help me get through this. My comments were a reaction to what I felt was over simplifying the complexity of my wife’s personality. I felt like it was counterproductive to think of her as a one dimensional figure. I was also feeling frustration over the comments that suggested that I was to blame for how she treats me, this together with the amount of blame my wife puts on me for the state of our r/s. In retrospect I better understand the message that was being delivered. At times I also get frustrated when I am having a hard time answering some of the questions that I’m asked to think about.
I think what’s hardest for me to do is to put all of this together in real time: the 30,000’ view of our actions, the analysis of what is happening, thinking of how to respond/apply the tools, and the mindfulness of myself and my behaviors. Doing this for a single event is doable, but at times I can’t keep up with what is happening.
But at the same time, couldn’t you say something like “I’m willing to participate in this discussion only if we can be respectful to each other.” And if she cannot, then walk away.

I know this sounds simplistic, but if repeated over and over and over, you might actually have a respectful conversation at some point.

You want to stay for the sake of your son. You want to avoid a contentious divorce battle. And at the same time, you refer to your relationship as toxic.

This is the environment your son is seeing as he grows up. You are modeling the behavior of what it means to be a man to him and how adult relationships work.

I’m concerned about your approach to be passive and hope that her better angels prevail. Has it worked up to now?

Regarding the boundary setting, I don’t think it’s overly simplistic. I actually appreciate how you put it. The example you used is one of the boundaries that I keep. It gets her blood boiling when I walk away, but I’ve been good about keeping this one and not folding.
Regarding my son and how this is affecting him, I agree with your concerns. The end goal is to be able to model a healthy relationship for him. In the meantime, the best I can do is model the contrast in losing your temper vs. staying calm in the face of a bully. I discuss this topic frequently with my therapist and he helps me to understand the different aspects of what he is seeing and learning. Thankfully the time I spend with my son is very positive and constructive. Probably around 75% of his time during the pandemic has been exclusively with me. So, hopefully he is getting more positive modeling than negative. But it could still be better.
As for my passive approach, I understand the fallacy of this relative to a r/s with pwBPD, but it’s my nature and the hardest thing about me to change. I think saying that I am hoping for her better angels to prevail is a misinterpretation of what I meant. I think it’s healthier for me to give her the benefit of the doubt rather than think that she is always going to react with negativity. I feel that this at least gives off a more positive vibe that she can sense. If I anticipated negativity constantly she would sense this and react in turn.

I think the length of this response reflects the complexity of my interactions with my wife as well as the difficulty of applying the many tips and tools I value from this site. I’m trying to do my best and I hope those helpful souls here don’t give up on me. I am so very grateful for the time and energy that goes in to the responses I get here, especially considering you all are doing this as you deal with your own r/s with pwBPD.
Thank you

[Cat Familiar]

The major issue I see you grappling with is the constant chaos that your wife creates. Just to reiterate some things I remember from previous months: 1. Not OK to take son camping  2. Need to move couch  3. Divorce threat  4. Draining money from account  5. Potential breast cancer scare  and I think there was some physical violence or rock throwing in there too. I’m sure I’ve missed a lot, without going back and reading the history.

Yes, your wife is a multidimensional human being, not a cardboard cutout. However, these patterns of behavior, are repetitive and if you extract the details, expected.

I would guess all this has kept you in a state of mental exhaustion and chronic anxiety: what will she pull next? I know I felt that way in my first marriage.

So many of our comments are coming from an “Ignore the details; look at the overarching structure” point of view. This in no way reduces her to a one dimensional character, but gives you a way to see the pattern more clearly as you dig out from the chaos.

If we apply this type of analysis to you, we could say that your pattern is to be strong, silent, and passive, hoping not to feed this current crisis.

And that can be an effective strategy at times. But even better is having more strategies to deal with the chaos that she certainly will create.

[RestlessWanderer]

Cat, thank you for your last post. That helps to give me a better understanding of what’s being recommended for me and where you are coming from. The hard part now is learning and applying the lessons.

Do you, or anyone else, have any advice on different strategies to learning and applying them?

I’d like to think that I am open to constructive criticism. If I have been getting in my own way, help me see it and correct it.

I’m not sure if it’s too late to improve my relationship, but it is worth trying. It often feels like my wife looks at me and only sees me for every mistake or negative thing that I have done. Some of that is based on fact and some is based on her perceived slights.

Is this a common characteristic/trait of pwBPD? I haven’t read this particular one, but it may be a manifestation of others that I have read.

[formflier]

Is this a common characteristic/trait of pwBPD? I haven’t read this particular one, but it may be a manifestation of others that I have read.

Yes...my opinion is that it is a kissing cousin to "projection".   Just like they don't want to feel and own their own stuff/emotions...it's much easier to look at the mistakes of others, rather than look at themselves.

Then...when they explain your faults and horribleness to you...they start getting used to the reaction...they start to get they have control...and the monster grows.

One thing to work on.  Stay "soft" and "empathetic"...even when they are going off the rails.  (at least at first).

Step 1 is to give them a chance to "bring it back to nomal"

If that doesn't work..go to boundaries and protection yourself.

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

One thing to work on.  Stay "soft" and "empathetic"...even when they are going off the rails.  (at least at first).

Step 1 is to give them a chance to "bring it back to nomal"

If that doesn't work..go to boundaries and protection yourself.

I need to work on shifting from silent to soft and empathetic. Can you give some examples that have worked for you? I’m afraid of sounding patronizing, which would probably escalate things. It will take some practice to be able to do this in the face of blame and insults.

[formflier]

So..expect lots of trial and error.  Don't let one "failure" make you abandon a method.  That said...if you are convinced you have tried something 10 times the right way...and it's not working...try something else.

Once you have 3-4 things that work or kinda work...start rotating through them.

You also want to use your response to build space and insert time.  Many/most BPDish things don't get fixed they just burn themselves out.

So...

"Oh my goodness babe...(babe or similar thing will help you be softer), let me stop and listen to this again."

"Oh wow..this sounds important.  Let me get us something to drink and then I can focus better"  (see how you build space and validate that she (her issues are important)

"Oh my..this seems important enough to give it my undivided attention.  Let's push pause and talk about this after dinner, perhaps with a glass of wine."   (you are giving it time, saying it's important..kinda using a boundary that you will deal with this stuff when you are at your best..when you choose and see how this reduces the crazy...you deal with it on your schedule...not hers.)

Do you get the vibe?

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Do you, or anyone else, have any advice on different strategies to learning and applying them?

Here are a couple of links that might help:
Listen with empathy

Don't be invalidating

I suggest these two concepts because I think you are a very caring man, but over time, communication between you two has gotten mired in past history, and to change this pattern, you’ll need to focus on doing something different, rather than your previous patterns.

At the beginning, it will feel forced and awkward, but over time as you practice, it will become a normal habit and you won’t even have to think about it.

I’ve thought of myself as caring, but what I didn’t realize until the last couple of years is how invalidating I can be to my husband. I’m a thinker, more than a feeler in the Meyers Briggs paradigm—and I suspect you are too.

It’s easy for us thinkers to say something, which feels so logical, so normal, but is very triggering to our partners who are so immersed in their feelings.

A recent example comes to mind. My husband was complaining that many people at the post office weren’t wearing masks, and our community has been recently having an increased number of Covid cases.

I said, “Why don’t you go less frequently?” We live in a rural area and have a P.O. Box instead of getting home delivery.

I know one of the things he enjoys is getting mail, and he also wants to protect me from being around those anti-maskers.

Next thing I knew, he was starting to dysregulate. I can catch it at the very beginning of that cycle, now that I see the body language, facial expression, and verbal signs.

I quickly said, “I’m so concerned about your wellbeing, that’s all.” Then I dropped it, went outside to do something while he cooled off emotionally, and thus, no problem.

In the past, I would have had a far different response. I would have tried to persuade him to only go a couple times a week, while at the same time telling him that I was worried about him.

Though I meant well, that type of response would have been perceived by him as totally invalidating, for a variety of reasons.

You say your wife sees you through a lens of all the mistakes you’ve made. That may be true, but at the same time, you are also hanging onto those mistakes in your mind.

What if you just endeavor to forgive yourself and let that past history go? After all, we all make mistakes. That’s just part of being human. And mistakes are useful in teaching us to choose differently in the future. Feedback, not failure!

So what if she thinks whatever she thinks. If you don’t buy into it, you won’t help her perpetuate that. Instead, you might think how hypercritical and unforgiving she is being, and could that be because she has so much guilt and self-loathing that she’s projecting that on you?

Let her have her feelings, but you don’t need to accept that mantle of judgment.

[formflier]

So..take a peek at how Cat deals with it when she sees something is brewing and also my suggestions, which I have personally used several times

I'm not so interested in you exactly learning the words...as you kinda get the concept.

Cat expressed concern...and gave him space and time.  It protected her from the dysreg AND ALSO..perhaps gave him space to mutter, cuss or do whatever he does to blow of steam..without the potential shame of doing it in front of your partner.

My wife likes to "mutter really loud" in the other room.  I used to confront her..or even casually ask who she was talking to (hint..I wasn't really curious..I was making a point).  It was likely shaming to her and I can't think of many (perhaps any) times where it was helpful.

Her "temp" was rising and he needs space...so I now go do something else (and I kinda know to be on my toes)

The key is to realize that what you are doing right now is not working so well...so try something else...

Best,

FF