Here we go again… What to do?

[formflier]

“Hey... it’s been a while… I’ve missed you… I think we should talk, and see if we can figure out what happened and to see if we can come to grips with where we are at.“

 

NOOOO

Talking..figuring it all out..coming to grips  where are we at?  Ugg uggg triple ugg 

Would you rather get together with someone for a pleasant walk and a taste of your favorite beverage...or...would you rather do all the work that seems to go with "figuring it all out"

Hey man...open the door.  Make it look inviting and the go on with your life.  She may walk through..or she may not.

She may hate you...or she may not.

She may think your belly button is a secret recording device..or she may not.

Set the bait...and go on about your life.

Best,

FF

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

Talking..figuring it all out..coming to grips  where are we at?  Ugg uggg triple ugg  

its heavy. no one ever responded well to "we should talk".

edit: let her initiate/lead any "where are we at" discussions.

[Mr. Kelly]

NOOOO

Talking..figuring it all out..coming to grips  where are we at?  Ugg uggg triple ugg  

Would you rather get together with someone for a pleasant walk and a taste of your favorite beverage...or...would you rather do all the work that seems to go with "figuring it all out"

Hey man...open the door.  Make it look inviting and the go on with your life.  She may walk through..or she may not.

She may hate you...or she may not.

She may think your belly button is a secret recording device..or she may not.

Set the bait...and go on about your life.

Best,

FF

Ironically, she would probably tell you that I am the drama queen… And I do have my share, but it’s her that seems to get all hung up about stuff and makes way bigger deals out of things that are really nothing.

I do get what you’re saying about wordiness and not implying that the walk necessarily has to be to figure stuff out.

We do like to walk, but we don’t really have a “usual“ place, and the coffee place is right next to the entrance, so if we walk there, we usually stop for coffee there. It’s a neat little stop.

So… Kelly rewrite…

“Hi there… Care to join me for a walk up by the café in the next few days? We could stop for coffee afterwards.  It would be nice to see you.”

Still too many words?

[once removed]

i like it.

just understand there are no magic words she will respond positively to. its more a case of playing your best hand, and avoiding things she will respond negatively to. even if she responds positively, it may take some time.

[formflier]

I like it too.

Just me..I try to reduce words...but you obviously like them..so go for it.

I'll echo the "no magic words thing". 

Best,

FF

[Mr. Kelly]

its heavy. no one ever responded well to "we should talk".

edit: let her initiate/lead any "where are we at" discussions.

Well, it’s almost hard to imagine that if I see her after a week of silence that the topic of that silence isn’t going to surface. Usually, it’s me that will say something like “so, what’s been on your mind for the last week?”.

It’s going to be very hard to get out of there without saying something like that.

I don’t remember who initiated the “talk“ six weeks ago when we reconciled after a month. I’d be hard-pressed to tell you and how it even came about, but I think after going back-and-forth with her and professing my love to her in various texts over about two weeks, I finally just simplified it and said… “I’d be more than happy to get together with you and answer any questions that you have“, to which she replied, OK I’m available tomorrow.

If I think about it, That exact scenario has happened almost every time we have broken up. It almost seems to be expected.

That being said, she has said multiple times that she is very traditional and expects the man to lead and be the one to advance things. It’s like that every thing that we do. She’ll say “what are we going to do”, and I will say, I haven’t really thought about it yet what would you like to do do you have any ideas… “No, you can just pick some thing and we can go do it”.

I would much rather have her help in the process, with maybe suggesting some things or negotiating. I’d like that sense of partnership. She seems to just want to get on with it.

Also in the bedroom… I would love to see her give me an indication that she would like something to happen at some point… Most of the time, if I don’t initiate it, it ain’t happening.

I digress, but I guess it’s all part of the package. I do miss her terribly, but she’s so screwed up in a fairly profound way, and I am screwed up as well, but at least I seem to be able to unravel what’s going on in my brain and make sense of it… I’m not so sure with her. Well, I am sure. She’s not very good at it.

Part of this dilemma continues to go back to whether or not this is a workable situation for me. My therapist this morning asked me “what do you think you deserve?“. That’s a relevant question, even though it is a basic therapeutic question… Well, I know I don’t deserve to be kicked around regularly, even if it’s due to a mental health condition.  That’s no way for almost any person to live. It’s really not even a way for her to live, so I can empathize what she is likely going through, as well.

Maybe it’s true that this just isn’t the healthiest relationship for me… Well, obviously it really isn’t… So, I continue to ask myself the question, why do I want to do this?

There’s no easy answer, but I keep ruminating about it and wondering one way or the other. My brain can’t slow down… What if I lose her forever… Why would I want this forever… She’s been my best friend… She’s been my worst enemy…

I believe I am partly BPD myself, but somewhere in the middle of the trajectory. My therapist didn’t even mince words when we started to talk about trauma, she just automatically said… “Yeah, it’s obvious that you have a trauma history“.

My head is all screwed up regarding this, wondering if I had a little more self-confidence and nerve I would have texted her the first night she didn’t call me back and say “what the heck… Why didn’t you call me back?“. That might’ve put an end to all of this. I couldn’t do it. I was too neurotic that something bad was happening, like the million times before, and I was almost waiting for the ax to hit the back of my neck, if you know what I mean.

I probably shouldn’t judge myself harshly for feeling that way, because that’s pretty much the truth. I have felt that axe at the back of my head way more times than the average person should in any given relationship.

Then there’s the other side of that coin, with what an absolutely marvelous and beautiful partner she can be. As Ric Ocasek wrote… “It’s all mixed up…“.

[once removed]

Well, it’s almost hard to imagine that if I see her after a week of silence that the topic of that silence isn’t going to surface. Usually, it’s me that will say something like “so, what’s been on your mind for the last week?”.

It’s going to be very hard to get out of there without saying something like that.

i understand.

leading can look like a lot of different things. it can mean sitting back and being cool. people with bpd traits are especially attracted to strength and stability.

some of the things im suggesting/advising are a little bit generalized, a little bit "gender rolesy". but telegraphing insecurity really doesnt get anyone anywhere, and ive done enough of it for a lifetime. im no player/ladys man/whatever, but ive kept score of where ive gone wrong.

but its about human nature, too. shes pissed. she made a dramatic show of unfriending/blocking you/whatever. calmness and confidence will catch her off guard. "we should talk" will get you ignored, or she will say there is nothing to talk about.

in any event, im not saying "under no circumstances should you bring any of this up at any time". just be cool and go with the flow.

Part of this dilemma continues to go back to whether or not this is a workable situation for me. My therapist this morning asked me “what do you think you deserve?“. That’s a relevant question, even though it is a basic therapeutic question… Well, I know I don’t deserve to be kicked around regularly, even if it’s due to a mental health condition.  That’s no way for almost any person to live. It’s really not even a way for her to live, so I can empathize what she is likely going through, as well.

Maybe it’s true that this just isn’t the healthiest relationship for me… Well, obviously it really isn’t… So, I continue to ask myself the question, why do I want to do this?

theyre important questions. continue asking them. the wrong reasons are the wrong reasons, and the relationship will fail, or remain unhealthy/unstable. the right ones will give you clarity, and your best shot. these relationships arent picnics, and theyre a choice. they require one to really level up their skills, even on a good day. and at the same time, not all relationships are built to last, no matter what skills you bring to the table, and its valid to say "this isnt for me".

My head is all screwed up regarding this, wondering if I had a little more self-confidence and nerve I would have texted her the first night she didn’t call me back and say “what the heck… Why didn’t you call me back?“. That might’ve put an end to all of this. I couldn’t do it. I was too neurotic that something bad was happening, like the million times before, and I was almost waiting for the ax to hit the back of my neck, if you know what I mean.

just like if she doesnt respond to your message, it doesnt mean you chose the wrong words, this isnt about one incident here or there. its about a slow and steady breakdown of trust, of a relationship, and the uphill climb it takes to rebuild.

[Mr. Kelly]

i understand.

leading can look like a lot of different things. it can mean sitting back and being cool. people with bpd traits are especially attracted to strength and stability.

some of the things im suggesting/advising are a little bit generalized, a little bit "gender rolesy". but telegraphing insecurity really doesnt get anyone anywhere, and ive done enough of it for a lifetime. im no player/ladys man/whatever, but ive kept score of where ive gone wrong.

but its about human nature, too. shes pissed. she made a dramatic show of unfriending/blocking you/whatever. calmness and confidence will catch her off guard. "we should talk" will get you ignored, or she will say there is nothing to talk about.

in any event, im not saying "under no circumstances should you bring any of this up at any time". just be cool and go with the flow.

theyre important questions. continue asking them. the wrong reasons are the wrong reasons, and the relationship will fail, or remain unhealthy/unstable. the right ones will give you clarity, and your best shot. these relationships arent picnics, and theyre a choice. they require one to really level up their skills, even on a good day. and at the same time, not all relationships are built to last, no matter what skills you bring to the table, and its valid to say "this isnt for me".

just like if she doesnt respond to your message, it doesnt mean you chose the wrong words, this isnt about one incident here or there. its about a slow and steady breakdown of trust, of a relationship, and the uphill climb it takes to rebuild.

You are completely right… I don’t think she digs insecurity. That’s been pretty much how I’ve been handling her for the last few weeks. Insecurely.   I think she senses it, and I think that it makes her feel triggered in other areas. I’ve been very insecure… But I have been confidently guising it by telling her I want her to make decisions for herself, based on your comfort level of what she would like to do, rather than me leading. That hasn’t gone well, because I think she starts imagining things that just aren’t true.

I know by her personality that she is probably thinking “he needs to put on the big boy pants and get a grip on things“. That is her anxiety speaking, though.

That being said, she has many times said to me that when she is done with someone, she has done, and she doesn’t look back. Even though we’ve been through this exact same scenario about 12 times in the last year and a half, this one feels a bit different, and it’s too quick after the last make up. That worries me a lot.    She may just be done, for all I know. 

[Mr. Kelly]

I hate to keep pestering you guys with my stream of thoughts… But…

I have a reason to believe that my lady friend has characteristics of both NPD and BPD… She’s not way out of control a lot of the times, mostly when she splits, but I do see elements of it elsewhere.  I don’t mean to be judge mental, and I am certainly not really qualified to make these determinations… But somethings are fairly apparent…

Let’s just say that this split has narcissism written all over it, and her ghosting is meant as a punishment, because she feels I jave insulted her… Even though a neuroypical woman would never interpret the conversation that way… Let’s just say as a matter of discussion…

Wouldn’t Me reaching out to her in many ways be a sign of weakness? Wouldn’t that give her the impression that she has the power, because I am reaching out to her, and she can continue to use these kinds of strategies in the future, because it’s obvious I’m not going to hold her accountable for them?

[once removed]

chasing, begging, or pleading, would do that, yes. your message is confident and upbeat.

she is punishing you, in the sense that shes mad (about something(s) and wanted you to know it. thats not the same thing as NPD.

this isnt a woman in a power struggle, except with herself.

[Mr. Kelly]

I wonder about that… The narcissistic question.

She gets quite nasty when I even suggest something that contradicts what she is saying. That is one of the prominent thing that comes up in her splits… “You never listen to me, you are constantly disrespecting me“. That’s absolutely not true, but isn’t that something a narcissist does, and my disagreeing with her seems to trigger that. 

It’s fairly incessant, and anytime I say something even remotely contradictory to her, even if it is conversational, I can see it gets under her skin. It’s been that way since I’ve known her, and caused, or at least has contributed, to every different split.

Partially related question… What do you think it is about girls like this, or anyone, who have a hard time just calling me up or texting and say, “hey, I was kind of pissed about what you were saying today…”.

Why is that so hard for her to do, and consequently, why would it be so hard for her to get it that I didn’t want to keep pestering her if she didn’t respond to my first two phone calls? That would seem almost like a “duh” situation.  Why unfriend someone because they haven’t called you or texted you in a week? She may have no idea why I have or have not called her, and it shouldn’t take too many brain cells to figure out that if I called her twice and she didn’t call me back, well, how many more times am I going to call her?

What do you think is the root of all of that? Do you think it helps fill her narcissistic supply for me to beg, and when I don’t, then she starts to get anxious and want to punish?

I’m not sure of the thinking there.

[once removed]

She gets quite nasty when I even suggest something that contradicts what she is saying. That is one of the prominent thing that comes up in her splits… “You never listen to me, you are constantly disrespecting me“. That’s absolutely not true, but isn’t that something a narcissist does, and my disagreeing with her seems to trigger that.  

when trying (the best most of us can do without a diagnosis) to better understand where your loved one is on the (any given) spectrum, its important to look at what is driving it (and when it comes to a diagnosis, the severity of it, which is difficult for a loved one to do objectively, all of it feels severe to us).

for example, people with bpd lie. people with npd lie. everyone, to some degree, lies. what drives the lying? whats the motivation behind the lying?

what you are describing is extremely commonplace with BPD. could it be something more? it could. could it be something less like high sensitivity or immaturity? it could.

this can help. check out the other resources in the top left corner of your screen under "Diagnosis+Treatment": https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder

whether its bpd or npd, or more, or less, you love someone with a high degree of sensitivity, and a high degree of sensitivity when it comes to rejection, invalidation, perceived slights, or criticism.

Partially related question… What do you think it is about girls like this, or anyone, who have a hard time just calling me up or texting and say, “hey, I was kind of pissed about what you were saying today…”.

to do so requires a level of trust and vulnerability, something that isnt easy for your loved one; either that, or someone who will fire off at you for the littlest thing. people with bpd traits are needy, generally very needy, and tend to pick...less than constructive ways of meeting their needs or having their needs met.

Why is that so hard for her to do

fear of rejection, of vulnerability, being stuck in her ways/having gotten results from those ways...or anger, or pride, or any of the other reasons we all tend to do dysfunctional things.

Why unfriend someone because they haven’t called you or texted you in a week?

possibly to get your attention, but otherwise, the same reason that members who are going through a breakup decide to block someone not speaking to them.

Do you think it helps fill her narcissistic supply for me to beg, and when I don’t, then she starts to get anxious and want to punish?

no. i think that might be giving too much credit to a person who doesnt have a plan, as such, so much as she is reacting, to you, to her emotions, in the only way she knows how. mental illness isnt a super power. it can be confusing when we are in it especially, but there is a human nature rhyme and reason to most things.

[formflier]

Circling back to an earlier point...make sure she brings "it" up..don't lead her to anything.

If she brings it up...be curious and listen. 

Best,

FF

[Mr. Kelly]

Circling back to an earlier point...make sure she brings "it" up..don't lead her to anything.

If she brings it up...be curious and listen. 

Best,

FF

Thanks!

That’s pretty much exactly what I did last time, and it seem to work well.

When we did start talking about our problems, I started talking a lot about what I have been learning about trauma, and trauma survivors, without actually bringing up BPD… And I was relating it to myself, but she was glued to what I was saying…

Didn’t hear a peep about it, after that.

[Mr. Kelly]

I just had a really interesting thought…

What if I sent her what seemed like a random text… Which simply said…

“You know… Whenever I see a picture if you on my phone, all I can do is smile… I hope you are doing well. Would you like to go for a walk some day this week?“

It’s pathetically sad that somethings so simple can turn so dramatic unnecessarily.

[Mr. Kelly]

New thought…

I awaken today with this thought… My lady friend is likely too smart to fall for a simple uncomplicated message to her… She’s going to think I’m trying to play her, unless I start talking about why am asking her to get together.

I have almost no doubt that even if I sent her a simple “hey let’s go for a walk“ text, she’s going to come back with drama and insist on going more rounds.

I think I’m prepared for that, by responding “I don’t think it helps either of us to go back-and-forth like this now. If you’d like to talk about these things as we walk, which has served us well in the past, I think that would be best“.

Of course, she’s going to feel the shifting power, and think I am condescending and obnoxious, based on the frame of mind she may be in.

I still think there is a considerable amount of power optics going on in her behavoir.  Mine, too, if you think about it. I am trying to make a point by not contacting her, which is my passive way of conveying to her that her behavior was not OK, and I’m not going to chase her. In her brain, she’s going to think that’s a power struggle on my part, which technically, it is.

[once removed]

power struggles (or fear of rejection, or fear of vulnerability, or pride, or...), in this case, are human nature.

theres nothing that applies to people with bpd traits that doesnt to the rest of us, the difference is just the extremes (we all have a fear of abandonment, some more, some less, people around bpd adapt their entire lives around it, for example), and the extent to which it is or isnt pathological.

you may be overthinking this. i can understand why, and i have the same tendency.

you cant really control how she receives the message, and it may take her some time to process...she may feel multiple ways about it. its a good message.

preparing for how/if she responds is smart. you may want to take a little time on it, bring it to the boards, and get some feedback.

[tvda]

Mr. Kelly... I don't mean to be harsh to you... But has it occurred to you that a lot of what you are writing feels like a mix between the "denial" and "bargaining" phase of mourning?

You seem to be consumed with the composition of one message... I hope you are doing okay and still functioning outside of this part of your life. And I wish you well.

You know what I sometimes think when I read this thread? Why not "do nothing"? In the end, if you want her to come back, she is the only person who can decide this... And if there is one thing I've learned about women, it's that if they don't feel it, there is nothing you can do to sway them.

Maybe it's best to just sit this one out, and start to let go and process your grief. If you get "lucky", it might trigger her fear of abandonment and she might come back. Or charm you because her plans without you failed. And if not, you will have gained time already processing...

[Mr. Kelly]

power struggles (or fear of rejection, or fear of vulnerability, or pride, or...), in this case, are human nature.

theres nothing that applies to people with bpd traits that doesnt to the rest of us, the difference is just the extremes (we all have a fear of abandonment, some more, some less, people around bpd adapt their entire lives around it, for example), and the extent to which it is or isnt pathological.

you may be overthinking this. i can understand why, and i have the same tendency.

you cant really control how she receives the message, and it may take her some time to process...she may feel multiple ways about it. its a good message.

preparing for how/if she responds is smart. you may want to take a little time on it, bring it to the boards, and get some feedback.

You are right, 0R… Thanks for the nudge.

What did you think of my slightly more personal version of the check in text?

said…

“You know… Whenever I see a picture if you on my phone, all I can do is smile… I hope you are doing well. Would you like to go for a walk some day this week?“

This would probably be something much more believable to her. Is it pushing a little too hard? I think it may be.

[Mr. Kelly]

Mr. Kelly... I don't mean to be harsh to you... But has it occurred to you that a lot of what you are writing feels like a mix between the "denial" and "bargaining" phase of mourning?

You seem to be consumed with the composition of one message... I hope you are doing okay and still functioning outside of this part of your life. And I wish you well.

You know what I sometimes think when I read this thread? Why not "do nothing"? In the end, if you want her to come back, she is the only person who can decide this... And if there is one thing I've learned about women, it's that if they don't feel it, there is nothing you can do to sway them.

Maybe it's best to just sit this one out, and start to let go and process your grief. If you get "lucky", it might trigger her fear of abandonment and she might come back. Or charm you because her plans without you failed. And if not, you will have gained time already processing...

These are all very valid thoughts, thank you.

I read an article in psychology today that said that people who have a hard time making up their minds and are indecisive often make better decisions in the long run, because they don’t make quick decisions that are more likely to fail. I don’t know how much I believe that in this case, but I will take it for what it is… :-)

I am indecisive for the exact reason you described. If I reach out to her, it could start the merry-go-round spinning fastly all over again. Part of me cares enough about her to maybe want to endure that. Part of me isn’t sure I’ve got it left in me.

I know she values the good that we have shared. I think both of us could probably say it has been the most connected and intense relationship we maybe have ever each had… 

It’s completely possible that she has disconnected, has it wrapped up in her brain that it’s just to screw it up, and that we are just too different to work effectively, and she has unplugged her feelings.

In many ways, that would be pathetically sad. So, because I don’t really know what she’s thinking, I haven’t quite yet started the process of mourning.  Hard to say if I ever will. I could take this girl’s legacy to my grave.

[formflier]

Hey...I am a major "overthinker".  I used to be much worse at it.  So please believe me when my "overthinker alert" goes off.

Simple is better.  Let her "call you on it".  Stay simple..stay chill.

Best,

FF

[tvda]

I know she values the good that we have shared. I think both of us could probably say it has been the most connected and intense relationship we maybe have ever each had…  

Hi Mr. Kelly - just a fair warning... Don't make yourself crazy or infinitely sad with thoughts like these... There must be a lot of cognitive dissonance going through your head at the moment, because the way she is treating you does not correspond with what you write above... Watch her actions, not her words.

And most of all... How do you know the above is true? I am sure this is what YOU felt. And I am equally sure this is what she TOLD you. Maybe you are correct. But you don't know. I can tell you two things: after 18 months of superintense passion, supposed connection and sky-high declarations of love, it became clear in half a day, that it was all a lie. A lie that she herself possibly believed in at times, but nonetheless a lie.

Hard to say if I ever will. I could take this girl’s legacy to my grave.

I'm just going to ask you one thing: please consider the option that maybe you will move past this faster and more easily than you think. One week ago I was hurting beyond belief and thinking "I'll never be able to process this". This week... I can't say I'm doing well, but I can definitely say "I don't love her anymore - and I don't think I ever want to talk to her again."

Don't lose yourself in dramatic thinking. The change starts with yourself, your own beliefs and your own intention.

[once removed]

“You know… Whenever I see a picture if you on my phone, all I can do is smile… I hope you are doing well. Would you like to go for a walk some day this week?“

This would probably be something much more believable to her. Is it pushing a little too hard? I think it may be.

you would have a better idea of if that message is more likely to be well received.

from where im sitting, it reads as something that is especially romantic, in a context that doesnt really fit, and might confuse her (or piss her off for that matter).

I am indecisive for the exact reason you described.

i get it, too. when ive been anxious about a girl, i always over thought everything (i still do) and id lean on my friends. its a lot easier for your fellow overthinkers to see these things more objectively as we arent directly involved.

[Mr. Kelly]

I am a complete over thinker and over the hill anxious about all of this…

I’ve been like this my whole adult life… It’s hard to really say where it came from, but I have this absolute panic over the thought of abandonment.

It’s not without history. At the risk of seeming like i’m trying to be a victim... I am approaching senior citizen ship… I don’t attract partners easily, and I feel like I’m running out of time.

It’s true that I have to be the pioneer of my own ship, and truthfully, after we were broken up for a month until about six weeks ago, I was getting to the point where I was functioning OK and starting to look forward more than backward. I do believe that will eventually happen. It’s a matter of whether I want it to happen.

This may be the only girl in my adult life that I have been able to let go a lot of my anxiety with, and really felt valued for who I was. I don’t think it’s an act. I think we have a lot in common, but we don’t have in common is culture.

I pretty much grew up out in the woods in Canada, and she grew up in an inner-city in Massachusetts. She is rough and tumble, where I am earthy crunchy/touchy-feely. Sometimes it really works well, but often times there are clashes of culture.

She leans hard one way politically, and get sucked into the politics of the simplest of conversations, whereas I lean fairly heavily the other way.  Many of our earlier splits were because I would disagree with her in a fairly aggressive manner, and she would label that is disrespect and go into a split.

There are times where I even wonder why it bothers me that she splits like this. I’ve been through it so many times, and each and every time I wonder if I will ever see her again, or ever wake up next to her. Then, the inevitable seems to happen… She says really nasty things to me by text, we go back-and-forth about a dozen times, I invite her out to talk, and we start dating again as if nothing happened.

It’s the classic push/pull cycle. Each time, there seems to be evidence that things are getting better, and maybe this time we will last longer… It just hasn’t happened.

Another thing that is relevant… I pretty much live by myself out in the woods, with my young teenage daughter here half the time.  I do have a musical group I plan which gets me out once a week, but for the most part, I spent an inordinate amount of time by myself, alone, ruminating about my belly button.  That’s tough.

I do the best I can… I go out to eat once in a while by myself, or up into the mountains for an overnighter, etc. But loneliness sets in, and it sucks. I suspect you guys all know exactly what I’m talking about. This last year has not been easy in that way. The one coming up may not be any better in my camp.

So, I do know what I need to do. I need to either let this girl go, or I need to get better at managing how I react to her when she starts to get complicated.

I did neurotic things this time around. When she didn’t call me as expected, I got pouty and felt rejected, and went and slumped in the corner, rather than pick up the damn phone and call her and say hi. That would have likely been a complete game changer right there, but I just didn’t have it in me. I felt defeated and I sensed bad things were coming, so I chickened out and left her alone, which in itself isn’t a terrible decision. It just lent itself to a terrible result.

I digress.

[once removed]

i completely get it. im an obsessive person, myself. just weeks ago, i was an absolute basket case to my friends over a pretty simple encounter with a gal. not anxiety over someone id been in a relationship with, mind you.

youre right; for all of us, those things dont change, necessarily, at least not dramatically, its more about management. for example, i still get anxious about things like "should i talk to her, should i let her talk to me", but i dont act on anxiety.

theres a lot to consider here. you want to play your best hand. we want to help you do that.

overthinking, in this case, was more referring to what is or isnt going on in her own mind. not only can you not control that, but in my experience, i have a tendency to imagine more (or less) going on for the other person than actually is. i think thats generally true for most of us in these relationships. what feels to us one way isnt necessarily an accurate reflection of them or where theyre coming from.

its also important to consider how much of that is driving you here. remember, right reasons and wrong reasons.

[Mr. Kelly]

Oh, geez.

I ended up sending out the text I described here, the simple one, a little while ago.

She responded, and asked about my plans for the night, and for my daytime, but never actually said that she was interested in excepting my offer for a walk, although I guess that’s presumed.

Now, I’m hugely anxious as to what she’s going to say during that walk that I suspect will be coming.  I suspect I’m going to hear, “Kelly, you and I are just not on the same page and I just don’t see it working in the long run”.

I’m very anxious… Any thoughts or recommendations?

[Mr. Kelly]

So… She seems interested in going for a walk, but it’s hard to say what she may have in mind as a goal.

I guess she could’ve said “Kelly, we’ve been down this road too many times, and I don’t think going for a walk is going to fix anything“. She didn’t say that.

However, my fearful brain also thinks that this could be her opportunity to start reinforcing her walls that her and I are just not meant to be.

Her responses were fairly brief, and without much warmth.  I guess I shouldn’t expect anything differently, all things considered.

I did tell her I could easily rearrange my afternoon and meet her later in the afternoon, but she told me not to rearrange anything and she would see how the day unfolds, considering her current plans.

Not bad, I guess, but not a lot to hang my hat on.

[formflier]

Dont worry about what to say.  Be honest.

She says a bunch of stuff.

You say "I hear you it's important and I will give it some thought."

Then keep listening.

You can do this. 

Best

FF

[Mr. Kelly]

Thank you FF…

My fear is that if I am honest with her, I am going to open up wounds and potential continued splitting.

She has said to me many times during these kinds of situations… “I just don’t think we are right for each other“. I have always suspected that this is coming from a trauma response, so I can often ease her discomfort and slide her back into the relationship…

I know that it is often recommended not to say certain things when trying to resurrect from a split… For example, I have to stay away from saying anything that indicates that what she is saying or feeling is not true or invalid… Correct?

I have to try to respond using DBT elements of SET and JADE… I should look those up again and re-familiarize myself with them.

I’m not even sure what my goal is with getting together with her.

[formflier]

My fear is that if I am honest with her, I am going to open up wounds and potential continued splitting.
 

I should have been more specific.  Only ONLY be honest about "not knowing what to say". 

That will allow you to be "genuine" and also likely empathetic.

DO NOT be honest with her about ANY OTHER MATTER. 

Listen..."that sounds important, will give it thought...not sure what to say at the moment" and variations of that.

Best,

FF
Best,