There Seems To Be Many Of These People

[ve01603]

Or at least I find them all.  I have just realized that I had very brief encounters with two in the past.  Scary.

About ten years ago, there was a guy that worked in the same buiding as me but for a different company.  He pursued me and we started talking and hanging out.  The first way that he made contact with me was by calling my office because he knew where I worked.  Anyway we went out and had lunch and after that we started to kiss and all of a sudden he went nuts on me and started yelling that he can't do this, he has a girlfriend!  I was stunned.  After that, I found out that I was not the only one.  He had done this same thing with a couple of other women that worked in the neighborhood!

There was another one that I met that was overly interested right away and talked way too soon about me meeting his kids, then he showed up without them.  He dumped me with no warning, no reason, and when I went to talk to him about it, he went nuts on me.  

Now I realize years later that it was some type of PD.

[T2H]

That sucks - must have been pretty scary to have people suddenly rage at you.

There's a good number of people out there that have some pretty serious issues.  Not all are PD - but either way, it's good to stay away.

[ve01603]

That sucks - must have been pretty scary to have people suddenly rage at you.

There's a good number of people out there that have some pretty serious issues.  Not all are PD - but either way, it's good to stay away.

Yep. Scary. 

[AlexDP]

Yeah, there are quite a few. Three days ago I met a girl on the bus, who said she was from my college. She was very cute and we hit it off, so I told her my name. By the time I got home she had already added me on facebook using her smartphone. When I accepted her friend request, she immediately started talking to me and even asked me to come over later on. Then she said something about her boyfriend being an ass. At this point of course I know what is going on. I check her facebook profile, turns out she switches back and forth between hating him and being in love with him on a daily basis. She proceeds to some sexy talk, but I just ignore her. Two minutes later she updates her status and it reads "I have loved you from the start". Supposedly this is about her boyfriend. Within minutes three guys ironically like this and make fun of her.

All of this happened in about an hour or so.

[ve01603]

Yeah, there are quite a few. Three days ago I met a girl on the bus, who said she was from my college. She was very cute and we hit it off, so I told her my name. By the time I got home she had already added me on facebook using her smartphone. When I accepted her friend request, she immediately started talking to me and even asked me to come over later on. Then she said something about her boyfriend being an ass. At this point of course I know what is going on. I check her facebook profile, turns out she switches back and forth between hating him and being in love with him on a daily basis. She proceeds to some sexy talk, but I just ignore her. Two minutes later she updates her status and it reads "I have loved you from the start". Supposedly this is about her boyfriend. Within minutes three guys ironically like this and make fun of her.

All of this happened in about an hour or so.

Amazing.  So many people with issues out there. 

[confused101]

It's a bit like 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers' once we understand the condition. I've definitely been involved with three BPD's over my time and one of my male friends is also BPD.

These behavioural traits just don't ring true in someone who isn't.

[once removed]

dated four of them. had a male friend that might be. he dated a few of them. have an online friend who is. knew a girl in high school who is, who is now dating my best friend. read through a case of my dads, a BPD marriage horror story.

i've attracted disordered, troubled people, or people of troubled back grounds all my life. it's exhausting.

[Firelite]

There are so many people with this disorder that I am absolutely astounded that I never heard of it until I left my ex and did the research to understand what happened to our relationship.  The stats online say that possibly 2% of adults have this disorder.  If these stats are anywheres near accurate, then that is 6 million people in the US alone!  It is believed that many men go undiagnosed and unreported in statistics which would make the numbers even higher.  It is widely rumoured that Princess Diana, Marilyn Monroe and Michael Jackson may have lived with BPD.  Since BPD is likened to a post-traumatic stress response, that presumes that a huge number of people undergo traumatic events in their developing years.  When you think about it, it is so very very sad.  I forgive my ex and I grieve for all these hurting people.

[ve01603]

dated four of them. had a male friend that might be. he dated a few of them. have an online friend who is. knew a girl in high school who is, who is now dating my best friend. read through a case of my dads, a BPD marriage horror story.

i've attracted disordered, troubled people, or people of troubled back grounds all my life. it's exhausting.

Yes.  I realize now that my ex father-in-law was and my sister-in-law; don't see much of my brother because of her.  Makes so much sense because my husband at the time and I got to where we couldn't take it anymore and stopped hanging with my brother and I always said that as soon as she had us out of the picture, it seemed like she started trying to get my mom and dad out of my brother's life.  This was 20 years ago before I knew anything about this.  Guess I was pretty accurate.

[Noob]

I'm realizing the last few years of my life have been saturated with this disorder.

My boyfriend (now ex), my one very good friend (I'm in the process of distancing myself from this relationship after spending an evening listening to her rage about how her fiance had the audacity to cancel their wedding on the wedding day after she physically assaulted him in front of all their friends and family the night before - I mean, how dare he  ); my best friend's boyfriend (she's still recycling with him); and my boss (now ex)!

 

So yup. Tons of them everywhere, and I was like a magnet for them. I read and post and see a therapist and am moving on with my life! I'm also a thousand times happier now.

[The Ride]

I too have had a few in my life, male and female.  Does anyone have any theories as to why they may gravitate towards us? 

I just got through reading "How to Spot a Dangerous Man".  There is one part in there where the author interviews sociopaths and they claim that they can work the room without even getting out of their chair.  They can tell by a woman's body language and the way she moves as to what type of woman she is.  Also, by the way she accepts a complement.  One even said that he can smell it on them.  I think I'll email the author and see what her theory is on it. 

This blew me away and makes me leery to say the least.  What do yall think?

[ve01603]

I too have had a few in my life, male and female.  Does anyone have any theories as to why they may gravitate towards us? 

I just got through reading "How to Spot a Dangerous Man".  There is one part in there where the author interviews sociopaths and they claim that they can work the room without even getting out of their chair.  They can tell by a woman's body language and the way she moves as to what type of woman she is.  Also, by the way she accepts a complement.  One even said that he can smell it on them.  I think I'll email the author and see what her theory is on it. 

This blew me away and makes me leery to say the least.  What do yall think?

What do they say about body language and how they accept a compliment?

[2010]

Tons of them everywhere, and I was like a magnet for them.

Tons of them everywhere, and they are like a magnet for me.

Does anyone have any theories as to why they may gravitate towards us?

Does anyone have any theories as to why I may gravitate towards them?

Magnetic attraction works both ways.  While it's true that there are disordered people in the World, many people don’t allow them an all-access pass.  If those people do and the entry person proves disordered, healthy people remove the all-access pass and turn away and avoid all contact- cut and dry- boundary-wise, like non-stick Teflon. To remain attached to these people *or* to gravitate to them and not turn away should be under investigation.

If it’s your magnetic appeal that brings disordered people your way, then assume that you respond to these people for a reason and they to you. (Otherwise you’d be wearing a Teflon coat and nothing would stick to you as far as attachment goes- you’d be quite safe in your choices of who you let in and who you kick out of your life.)

And it’s all about choices. There must be a reason that you continue to interact with maladaptive personalities (and don't escort them out of your scope of energy.) These reasons are far more important to consider because they are the reasons that are most sinister to your mental well being.

If you are going to claim progression in your life that, over the years, disorderly people are magnetized to you, then there is a mutual attraction that needs investigating. If you find yourself continually attracting and then responding to those that are disordered- something's going on here.  Reasons?

1) Attempts to be heard by a deaf and disordered person are repetitious and compulsive and it’s all about your identity and voice (that’s been disallowed) from childhood.

1a.) “Maladaptive” personalities are basically blind, deaf and unable to foster change.  They cannot hear you!  *Stop trying.* Quit trying to tell them how to think. They cannot hear you. You do not have a gift- you are not a PD “whisperer.” (note: this is a.k.a. repetition compulsion in altruistic cloaking)

2) Perhaps you keep giving these people another chance to prove you’re wrong. Yes, maybe they just need a little more time to understand their disorder. Is this your attempt to be fair and balanced while getting your voice i.e., “needs” heard? (This facilitates your attraction.) Is it possible that you keep returning to this person to get your needs met because you are conditioned from childhood to return to a person who cannot and will not hear you? (a person that disallows your voice based upon their pattern of maladaptive behavior?) If so, you need to stop.

2a.) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is only as good as the “do unto you” part. It’s being changed surreptitiously by a cluster B personality into an “eye for an eye” which leaves the whole World blind. (Walk away from your generosity; it’s being manipulated to fulfill the moral misconduct, i.e, “precept” of the disorder.) Sorry about that- but it’s a disorder. Do not disrespect it.  It’s not up to you to determine the outcome of it except for the removal of it as it tempts your own reaction and response.

3) If the purpose of your attraction is to distract you from your own life while complaining about theirs- this needs to be confronted. Denial of your own personal responsibility to avoid these people can keep you focused in blame, never to accomplish your own goals. Meanwhile, you are stuck in neutral on the highway of life while using these people as roadblocks *or* you are allowing them the driver’s seat while complaining that they are driving erratically. This might be a way for you to claim a rocky road, but it’s really not about the road- it’s the passenger and driver, isn’t it?

3a.) You can linger on the side of the rocky road and look under the bonnet of the car, but this isn’t about the road and it isn’t about the vehicle. It’s about the passengers. A paved road waits up ahead and it's yours to travel if you'll just understand why the attraction to giving over the wheel to an insane person (so they can off road into Hell's gulch with you sitting shotgun) exists.

Find the reward you seek when you stay and try to change this person. Do you realize you are allowing a disordered person to determine your fate?  Are you staying just to fight them for control of the wheel? Are you trying to be heard by them?  Let go- but don’t let go of yourself.

Perhaps you’ll hope that the disordered person will determine the road (a.k.a. boundaries) for you. (this is not going to end well.) Disordered people have a disorder. You could call it an agenda. They don’t set boundaries, and they rely on other people to have non-existent boundaries or to let their boundaries down because of reasons unknown.  Now we can re-read #1, #2 or #3 again. What is the excuse for lack of boundaries? (Let’s make them known.)

You lock the door to your house so that burglars won’t come in and steal your possessions, so why is it that you allow someone to steal your piece of mind? (There must be a reason?)  

Did you just leave the door to the house unlocked? Did someone just come in or were they invited in? If they were invited in, what is the reason why they could not be escorted out again? Put on your Teflon coat.  Calling yourself a magnet is just an excuse to avoid responsibility for your own lack of personal boundaries.

From this day forward, you are now going to be an orderly person with boundaries that cannot be crashed. You are going to understand that personality disorders have patterns-and your reaction to those patterns keeps you hooked and you are going to confront your reason(s) for this.

You might want to be heard by a person who cannot hear you. You might think that if you said it better, that they would hear you. Speaking up is important but it’s also important to realize when your voice is NOT HEARD.

Fugeddaboutit! They’re deaf.  If people should prove themselves to be deaf to your voice- they are never, ever, ever going to hear you- EVER.  You deserve better, now put on your Teflon coat and avoid them at all costs.

Here’s a thought- the more you try to be heard by a person that cannot hear you, the more you fail to believe they are deaf and the louder you shout- and try to overcome the disorder. This is what keeps you going back for more as you don’t believe personality disorders are valid reasons to avoid someone.

This is the disordered dance that goes nowhere but down, and someone needs to say- HEY- the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. You have every right to cut off the interaction and turn away and avoid all contact after several attempts to be heard. You tried. You gave it your best. Now, let go.

If you did speak your mind about what you would not allow- once or twice or three times, and they kept disappointing you – they gave you proof of the disorder. Could it be that you didn’t want to admit it as such? You placed a line in the sand (an easily erased boundary) that was disallowed by a disordered person and you wanted proof again and again by moving that boundary to accommodate your disbelief.

Something tells me that you want to be kind to people, but are unaware of how unkind it is to yourself. Why allow these people access to hurt you in spite of evidence to the contrary that proves them to be hurtful?

Sooner or later you’ll realize that the current situation is just a replay of old conflicts. You’ll see that the only outcome is to place a final line in the sand (called stability) and ignore all attempts to breach your claim to your own sanity- this permanent line will allow you to stand unmoved from your position and allow you to deal with the anger (against yourself, against others) as well as the residual anger from the original conflict that will arise.  Sadness comes later when you realize that you were unable to resolve the original conflict as well as the reproduction of it in the present day conflict.  All of this was a repetition compulsion of your own making and you’re going to have to deal with the failure of getting your voice heard.* It wasn’t heard.* You must be OK with that.

If you are trying to get your voice heard- begin with LISTENING to yourself. Be alone and listen. You are the best judge for what happened in the past and you are the best rescuer for yourself. Thanks to this current abstract your own pain from childhood is on the surface now. Seek to resolve it. Be aware that *what you need* cannot be found outside of yourself  in any maladaptive personality- the struggle just has unlocked repressed pain that’s been under the surface for too long so you can deal with it.  You’ve tried to be heard. It’s time to let go of outside validation from people that cannot give validation to you because they cannot give validation to themselves.  Allow for change to happen when you don’t seek validation from someone else. BE ALONE. When you turn the attention to yourself- you’ll see the possibilities of change.  You’ll find your Teflon coat.

On a last note: change comes with great sadness.  Especially when it involves your own personality.

It can be very depressing not to blame others. When you find yourself free from the attraction to maladaptive personalities, you also find yourself free from blaming them for your woes. There is no hit of pain from the addictive conflict to keep you preoccupied from addressing yourself. Oh sure, there will be several attempts to transfer blame onto others- you know this is a process- Doctors, the Government, friends, etc. but when those fail, abandonment depression occurs and reality replaces fantasy.( For the first time ever.) You see, all of this was an attempt to recreate your childhood in a sort of reunion fantasy with your parents. The hope was that you would finally be heard and seen but it turned out to be another attempt and failure to be seen and heard by people who could not see and hear you.

Only in reality, with its stark, dismal beginnings, will you see that the road up ahead looks purposeful- lonely, yes, but filled with possibilities for a new start. And there’s no need to be distracted by the disordered. You’ll just turn and look away when you recognize them.  :)on't be afraid of shutting yourself off from people- it's only with time that people prove themselves to be fit and responsible enough to share an attachment. This applies to you as well- so learn to be OK with being alone. It's only when you are OK with yourself that you cannot be manipulated by others.  

[once removed]

oh yeah. highly relevant.

for me most of it was even conscious. after dating 4 i had made all sorts of comparisons and connections. i did find girls with BPD easier targets. it felt like crawling into each other. they felt normal, they felt like home. normal girls, even interested ones, were ruled out or overlooked for various reasons. consciously, i kept wanting to "beat it" this time. i even consciously, after being single for 3 years, decided "im ready. even if its another crazy girl. to prove to myself what i've learned, to prove im capable of breaking up with her, whatever." no. why would "another crazy girl" even be an entertained option? shouldn't THAT be what i need to prove to myself? i'd learned a lot about boundaries. i had several. some stronger than others. i frankly think thats what sustained this relationship. i was guarded against so much this time. but it wasn't enough. i told her "it's over" a thousand times and never meant it. it was as much to prove to myself as it was to prove to her, but that's practically all it was. i mean, i did it when i knew i SHOULD, at the moments when any rational person would say enough. but it was never enough. and with every one of them, i had red flags. i even called them red flags. they gave me some reason to overlook them, and i did. i think i was resistant to a lot of hooks. yet i still got hooked, ultimately, somehow. you cannot be superman with these people. i thought in this relationship i finally had it down. i can see the progress i had truly made. and it got me nowhere but worse than before.

also:

i do not see myself as fitting classically in a rescuer or savior role. i do see having felt victimized and persecuted from each of my previous relationships. a little bit of rescuing and savior behavior on my part, but not pathological. i think my exes saw themselves somewhat as rescuers of me. a little bit of "well this guys great. those other girls really wronged him. i don't see whats so bad/what their problem was but i'll treat him better." i also had a great childhood. and i have an innate and intact sense of self esteem and self confidence as i mentioned. but it's damaged and battered from these relationships, among other things. that's made me an easier target, made a pwBPD an easier target, and played into ruling out "normal girls". what bothers me is that like i said, i've always known no one should or can rely on me for their happiness or to complete them, that i can't fix anyone, etc. the problem is i sense the lack of sense of self these people have. i find myself semi consciously thinking "hey, come hang out with me and my friends, you can find your sense of self from us." almost like a cult leader. the mirroring/copying would simultaneously creep me out and flatter me.

[Noob]

2010 - Where have you been all my life?

We are soo lucky to have you. Nail on the head again here, and many other posts, of great benefit to this entire board.

You are correct, and I love how you remind us to turn it around... ."I was a magnet to them... ." = "they were a magnet to me". Truth and beauty there. Beauty because it's just *that* simple (on the big level), and there *is* a door out of this maze... .

This Teflon coat you speak of... .Want it, need it. And the truth is, for me, that it's not that all the people I encountered in my life were disordered, but all those who *I* devoted myself entirely to sure were.

It's really amazing how this last round, with BPD has really slapped some *real* survival instinct into me, and the ironic catalyst for me claiming my own mental health. I look back at past partners who "jerked me around" "treated me badly" blah blah blah blah blah. The SIMPLE fact is that I allowed it. Not only allowed it, but welcomed it with open obsession. It seems so obvious now... .That ongoing conversation, the desperation to be heard over and over and over... .

And you know what I was trying to say? "I DON'T DESERVE THIS! I DESERVE BETTER".

And I told it to him, and the others before him, in a myriad of ways ranging from the eloquent to the obscene, to the emotionally violent.

And I really should have been saying that to MYSELF.

I think I'm finally ready now to listen  

Thank you from my heart, 2010. You helped me really a lot today <3

And thanks to every single person on this board. I shudder to think where I'd be without y'all <3

[ve01603]

2010 - Where have you been all my life?

We are soo lucky to have you. Nail on the head again here, and many other posts, of great benefit to this entire board.

You are correct, and I love how you remind us to turn it around... ."I was a magnet to them... ." = "they were a magnet to me". Truth and beauty there. Beauty because it's just *that* simple (on the big level), and there *is* a door out of this maze... .

This Teflon coat you speak of... .Want it, need it. And the truth is, for me, that it's not that all the people I encountered in my life were disordered, but all those who *I* devoted myself entirely to sure were.

It's really amazing how this last round, with BPD has really slapped some *real* survival instinct into me, and the ironic catalyst for me claiming my own mental health. I look back at past partners who "jerked me around" "treated me badly" blah blah blah blah blah. The SIMPLE fact is that I allowed it. Not only allowed it, but welcomed it with open obsession. It seems so obvious now... .That ongoing conversation, the desperation to be heard over and over and over... .

And you know what I was trying to say? "I DON'T DESERVE THIS! I DESERVE BETTER".

And I told it to him, and the others before him, in a myriad of ways ranging from the eloquent to the obscene, to the emotionally violent.

And I really should have been saying that to MYSELF.

I think I'm finally ready now to listen  

Thank you from my heart, 2010. You helped me really a lot today <3

And thanks to every single person on this board. I shudder to think where I'd be without y'all <3

Good stuff.

[The Ride]

I too have had a few in my life, male and female.  Does anyone have any theories as to why they may gravitate towards us? 

I just got through reading "How to Spot a Dangerous Man".  There is one part in there where the author interviews sociopaths and they claim that they can work the room without even getting out of their chair.  They can tell by a woman's body language and the way she moves as to what type of woman she is.  Also, by the way she accepts a complement.  One even said that he can smell it on them.  I think I'll email the author and see what her theory is on it. 

This blew me away and makes me leery to say the least.  What do yall think?

What do they say about body language and how they accept a compliment?

Ve,

She doesn't go into details on it.  That's the reason I was going to email her.  It would be interesting to know these things.

[T2H]

A quick guess that covers both... .  someone that responds well to compliments - ie. in the way that the dangerous person can use it to their advantage.  If someone likes attention or doesn't get compliments often, etc - then they will likely blush, turn away, look down, react very positively, etc.  Since it would be a little more exaggerated than the norm (someone simply saying "thank you" and that's it) - then anything extra would be very noticeable to someone paying close attention for the purposes of manipulation.

Again, just a guess/theory.

There are probably generalizations for groups that dangerous people go after - but for us, it's important to identify our specific triggers/buttons that folks used against us so we are more aware when someone is doing it again in the future (since we can't completely change ourselves from caring/open/etc people, we'll likely always be a little somewhat receptive to people who want to take advantage).

[The Ride]

Thanks.  Excellent post 2010, as usual.  I did a copy and paste so I can go back and reread it until it sinks in as there is alot of food for thought there.

I'm still curious to know how someone can pick a vulnerable person out of a room of people without even talking to them first.  I'll let you all know what I find out. 

[The Ride]

A quick guess that covers both... .  someone that responds well to compliments - ie. in the way that the dangerous person can use it to their advantage.  If someone likes attention or doesn't get compliments often, etc - then they will likely blush, turn away, look down, react very positively, etc.  Since it would be a little more exaggerated than the norm (someone simply saying "thank you" and that's it) - then anything extra would be very noticeable to someone paying close attention for the purposes of manipulation.

Again, just a guess/theory.

I think you're right on this one T2H, as I've been thinking about it alot.  I'm very receptive to compliments and probably do all of those things that you mentioned above. 

[T2H]

I'm still curious to know how someone can pick a vulnerable person out of a room of people without even talking to them first.  I'll let you all know what I find out. 

Confidence shows.  So does the lack of it.  If you look closely, you can also often see when someone's way more focused on themselves than the other person (and if that other person is following along by being way more focused on them too).

Books on abusive people often explain a lot of things people like that do to manipulate - most of it along the verbal/emotional lines but there's occasionally some reference to body positioning / physical power plays / etc - they are a good read - especially if you also think about the other side (how/why we didn't notice those or let them slide or even were more attracted) while reading.

[C12P21]

just got through reading "How to Spot a Dangerous Man".  There is one part in there where the author interviews sociopaths and they claim that they can work the room without even getting out of their chair.  They can tell by a woman's body language and the way she moves as to what type of woman she is.  Also, by the way she accepts a complement.  One even said that he can smell it on them.  I think I'll email the author and see what her theory is on it.

Mine told me he looks at three things: how she orders coffee, the kind of shoes she wears, and how she responds to attention.

I used to think this was odd... like so many other conversations we had. In truth, he was telling me what he is through those odd comments and behaviors. I ignored these  's. Why? Because I was in a trance...

How did I get there?

disorderly people are magnetized to you, then there is a mutual attraction that needs investigating. If you find yourself continually attracting and then responding to those that are disordered- something's going on here.

Call me the Mother Teresa of the disordered, the healthier I become the more I see they are all around me in my relationships. Of course I exaggerate, but I do see the patterns AND how the patterns fit my childhood schema. I am attracted to pwPD/s due to four things:

1. FOO

2. Need to heal myself through healing FOO, since that can't happen pwPD's will do just fine.

3. I didn't know any different or better, got into T with a unlicensed person that practiced hypnosis and continually told me it was my "specialness" and ability to heal others that attracted folks like that in my life so my life work was to heal others due to my gifts. Right.   So it made my all ready confused mind even more confused.

4. I didn't know any better or different. I do know. I am in T and work on boundaries, self awareness and steps to take to protect me. Now that I know what I know, there is no going back. I take responsibility for my actions and am mindful about my interactions with others-my naive thinking has changed.

Magnetic attraction works both ways.  While it's true that there are disordered people in the World, many people don’t allow them an all-access pass.  If those people do and the entry person proves disordered, healthy people remove the all-access pass and turn away and avoid all contact- cut and dry- boundary-wise, like non-stick Teflon. To remain attached to these people *or* to gravitate to them and not turn away should be under investigation.

This is true. I have had to do a lot of soul searching as to why I would want to help, fix or explain to my exPDbf anything about himself. Once again, it is due to FOO and my need to heal my family. The only person I can heal is me. The desire to fix him borders on this:

“Maladaptive” personalities are basically blind, deaf and unable to foster change.  They cannot hear you!  *Stop trying.* Quit trying to tell them how to think. They cannot hear you. You do not have a gift- you are not a PD “whisperer.” (note: this is a.k.a. repetition compulsion in altruistic cloaking)

When I think about my unraveling and calling him, emailing, etc., I cringe. Why? Because I looked to him to validate my emotional experience and gave up my personal power. The other is-he is what he is and my contact was cruel. Think about it... how can you show a blind person what it is to see? You only remind them of their blindness... how cruel is that? The other is, I fed into the illness-if his desire was to have power over me-I gave it away. He needed a Karpman triangle in order to seal the deal with his fresh source of victimization-I was the bully. This pattern was obvious in our relationship in the beginning, I did not see this, I do now. He was fleeing another relationship with a "stalker".She wasn't of course, she was just as devastated and appalled as I was when he abruptly replaced her with a new object.  AND if I continued in this dysfunctional dance by replacing him with a new person, I would create my own Karpman triangle. The best thing is to not date and to heal and grow from this experience.

Perhaps you keep giving these people another chance to prove you’re wrong. Yes, maybe they just need a little more time to understand their disorder. Is this your attempt to be fair and balanced while getting your voice i.e., “needs” heard? (This facilitates your attraction.) Is it possible that you keep returning to this person to get your needs met because you are conditioned from childhood to return to a person who cannot and will not hear you? (a person that disallows your voice based upon their pattern of maladaptive behavior?) If so, you need to stop.

You got this one right. I still continue to hope I am wrong. I still fight the urge to write an apology letter for my excessive contact of him as we were in the process of disengaging. I feel badly about my actions, but also know it would be one more attempt on my part to be heard, understood, etc. But I do hope I am wrong about him and his new relationship is the best one of his life and he is happy and fulfilled. This is because I genuinely do care. The best way I can is to remain NC, and ensure I wipe away all trails that lead to my door. In the off chance he ever tries to contact me, again-I want to ensure I have left no bread crumbs. Why? In order to protect myself emotionally from this person. The enmeshment is too strong.

If you are trying to get your voice heard- begin with LISTENING to yourself. Be alone and listen. You are the best judge for what happened in the past and you are the best rescuer for yourself. Thanks to this current abstract your own pain from childhood is on the surface now. Seek to resolve it. Be aware that *what you need* cannot be found outside of yourself  in any maladaptive personality- the struggle just has unlocked repressed pain that’s been under the surface for too long so you can deal with it.  You’ve tried to be heard. It’s time to let go of outside validation from people that cannot give validation to you because they cannot give validation to themselves.  Allow for change to happen when you don’t seek validation from someone else. BE ALONE. When you turn the attention to yourself- you’ll see the possibilities of change.  You’ll find your Teflon coat

.

And this leads up to really mourning losses and the destructive patterns in life. I have mourned this past year so many things... my childhood, a bad T experience that was more like brain washing then help (I am filing a law suit in June), my former marriage, and the impact my dysfunctional behavior has had on my children as they grew up with a mother that had such poor boundaries. It has been tough... and the best  year of my life because I am finally awake. I am free. There is pain... but there is also a growing sense of inner strength that was there all along inside me and a wisdom.

The other day I met someone and felt such a strong attraction, it was like electricity filled the air between us. I spoke with him for thirty minutes and KNEW he was disordered by the conversation. It was apparent, not in any glaring way but in the process...

I ended the conversation and thought, okay- I now know I am attracted to pwbd but it doesn't mean I have to stay in the game...

Good post and 2010-you make it all so clear.

C

[ve01603]

I too have had a few in my life, male and female.  Does anyone have any theories as to why they may gravitate towards us? 

I just got through reading "How to Spot a Dangerous Man".  There is one part in there where the author interviews sociopaths and they claim that they can work the room without even getting out of their chair.  They can tell by a woman's body language and the way she moves as to what type of woman she is.  Also, by the way she accepts a complement.  One even said that he can smell it on them.  I think I'll email the author and see what her theory is on it. 

This blew me away and makes me leery to say the least.  What do yall think?

What do they say about body language and how they accept a compliment?

Ve,

She doesn't go into details on it.  That's the reason I was going to email her.  It would be interesting to know these things.

Oh heck yeah.  Let me know when you find out.  I would dig into all of it furter myself, but I am supposed to be studying right now.

[ve01603]

So funny that we are talking confidence and Sociopaths.  When I met my exBPD he was hanging with a guy that was a total Sociopath.  One time the Sociopath actually yelled at me for showing confidence!red-flag  ?

I was telling my ex that I thought that I would be able to drive and trailer his boat if we had to take two vehicles where we were going.  I said that I'd never done it before but I'd driven it enough with the trailer, etc. and I was sure that I could do it.

He screamed "Confidence!  Where do you get all of this confidence"?

[The Ride]

Mine told me he looks at three things: how she orders coffee, the kind of shoes she wears, and how she responds to attention.

I used to think this was odd... like so many other conversations we had. In truth, he was telling me what he is through those odd comments and behaviors. I ignored these  's. Why? Because I was in a trance...

C,

Did he elaborate on this?  What makes her different by the way she orders coffee?  What kind of shoes?  Fascinating, but scary too.

[C12P21]

Coffee-if she orders a latte' with stipulations... she is high maintenance. If her shoes are impractical to the weather, as well as her clothing, HM.

I remember once I was dressed as I usually dress for snow, heavy boots, parka, wool sweater. We drove out for dinner is subzero temps. Anyway he called attention to two women with full makeup, hair, heels, leather coats and said "don't be intimidated by those high maintenance women, I look at them and shudder".

I remember thinking hmm. A. Why would he think I would be intimidated? B. Why would he need to shudder? C. Maybe they are from out of town and got caught in a snow storm.D.  Who cares... don't make more of his comment than what it is... a passing comment.

But now I see it in a whole new light. I also remember thinking how lucky I was that I had a guy that was okay with me the way I am. 

He was laying his  in my head... and I bought it hook, line and sinker. The other is-I needed to have asked him to explain more to me so I could understand his thinking and how he viewed women. Next time a man says to me "you are a prize", or "other men look at you and I know they want you, your the kind of woman a man looks at and desires instantly"    (I remember laughing at him when he said this) I will run in the other direction.

Sorry for going off subject here.

[ve01603]

Coffee-if she orders a latte' with stipulations... she is high maintenance. If her shoes are impractical to the weather, as well as her clothing, HM.

I remember once I was dressed as I usually dress for snow, heavy boots, parka, wool sweater. We drove out for dinner is subzero temps. Anyway he called attention to two women with full makeup, hair, heels, leather coats and said "don't be intimidated by those high maintenance women, I look at them and shudder".

I remember thinking hmm. A. Why would he think I would be intimidated? B. Why would he need to shudder? C. Maybe they are from out of town and got caught in a snow storm.D.  Who cares... don't make more of his comment than what it is... a passing comment.

But now I see it in a whole new light. I also remember thinking how lucky I was that I had a guy that was okay with me the way I am. 

He was laying his  in my head... and I bought it hook, line and sinker. The other is-I needed to have asked him to explain more to me so I could understand his thinking and how he viewed women. Next time a man says to me "you are a prize", or "other men look at you and I know they want you, your the kind of woman a man looks at and desires instantly"    (I remember laughing at him when he said this) I will run in the other direction.

Sorry for going off subject here.

Don't apologize.  It's cool.  He just wanted you to feel bad about the way you were dressed.   When I became single and thinner, I used to really dress up and go all out.  Still do.  With mine though, he was looking at everyone else and everyone else was looking at me.  That's why they want us, to make themselves look good. 

I felt that I had to get really deck out because that way, when he was dissing me, I still felt O.K. because others were looking at me and if I knew that I looked good, his little games did not bother me as much. 

[T2H]

When I became single and thinner, I used to really dress up and go all out.  Still do.

Not saying you shouldn't dress up, feel good, etc - but isn't that also what happened with this new guy - he was sorta using you to make himself look good?

That's why they want us, to make themselves look good.

My exBPDgf certainly didn't need me (or anyone) to make her look good.  (at least visually)

I felt that I had to get really deck out because that way, when he was dissing me, I still felt O.K. because others were looking at me and if I knew that I looked good, his little games did not bother me as much.

It's interesting the things we do to make ourselves feel better rather than dealing with the source of the problem.  Getting our self-worth internally lessens our dependence on external validation.

[ve01603]

When I became single and thinner, I used to really dress up and go all out.  Still do.

Not saying you shouldn't dress up, feel good, etc - but isn't that also what happened with this new guy - he was sorta using you to make himself look good?

That's why they want us, to make themselves look good.

My exBPDgf certainly didn't need me (or anyone) to make her look good.  (at least visually)

I felt that I had to get really deck out because that way, when he was dissing me, I still felt O.K. because others were looking at me and if I knew that I looked good, his little games did not bother me as much.

It's interesting the things we do to make ourselves feel better rather than dealing with the source of the problem.  Getting our self-worth internally lessens our dependence on external validation.

Yeah but that's all done and now I just like cute clothes and I have so many, why not wear them?  Actually the pant suit that I had on Friday someone gave to me because they lost weight and it was too big.  I can't help it if I made it look good.   The dress that I had on Mother's Day I bought a few years ago.  A friend found it and said, "you have to go and buy this dress, it's on sale and it will fit you and it won't fit me," so I did.

[T2H]

Yeah but that's all done and now I just like cute clothes and I have so many, why not wear them?

Like I said - I'm all for that!  It's great that you look good and have clothes that accentuate that.

I'm just saying factor that in when guys approach you - if you look like arm candy / trophy gf, some of the guys you're going to attract will only be into you for that reason.

I'll repeat what another poster said - there are good guys out there.  But then disagree with another one (who may not have been generalizing to ALL men)... .I dated two very beautiful women recently (one being my BPDex) but I was attracted to them for other reasons - and very much wanted an emotionally intimate relationship with them.  Unfortunately it turns out they couldn't reciprocate.  Looks weren't everything to me before - and now, even less so.  In fact it's almost turned into a negative, based on my experiences.

[When I was on a business trip a little while ago, there was a girl there that all the guys were saying was very attractive - at one point after I passed her, she followed me to my table and started flirting.  Found out she had seriously cut herself in the past and a few otherred-flag  .  From the start, I wasn't interested (she did look good tho) - but I played along for a bit - and pretty quick got to the "we're soul mates!" comment, which was my cue to leave.]

How about instead of dressing up and going to a bar - you dress up and go to a volunteer event?

[ve01603]

Yeah but that's all done and now I just like cute clothes and I have so many, why not wear them?

Like I said - I'm all for that!  It's great that you look good and have clothes that accentuate that.

I'm just saying factor that in when guys approach you - if you look like arm candy / trophy gf, some of the guys you're going to attract will only be into you for that reason.

I'll repeat what another poster said - there are good guys out there.  But then disagree with another one (who may not have been generalizing to ALL men)... .I dated two very beautiful women recently (one being my BPDex) but I was attracted to them for other reasons - and very much wanted an emotionally intimate relationship with them.  Unfortunately it turns out they couldn't reciprocate.  Looks weren't everything to me before - and now, even less so.  In fact it's almost turned into a negative, based on my experiences.

[When I was on a business trip a little while ago, there was a girl there that all the guys were saying was very attractive - at one point after I passed her, she followed me to my table and started flirting.  Found out she had seriously cut herself in the past and a few otherred-flag  .  From the start, I wasn't interested (she did look good tho) - but I played along for a bit - and pretty quick got to the "we're soul mates!" comment, which was my cue to leave.]

How about instead of dressing up and going to a bar - you dress up and go to a volunteer event?

Dressed up and went out with my son for Mother's Day.  Then went back with my son for dinner because they have a great happy hour menu.  Won't be dressing up and going anywhere

for a while except to work.  Too busy studying.  

As far as volunteering, I plan to make a donation to the charity of that 28 year old hockey player from the NY Rangers that died on Friday.  Tragic.  :)id you hear about it?  I am going to make a donation to his childrens' charity because my son was devestated by the news and I thought that it would be a nice gesture.

[T2H]

As far as volunteering, I plan to make a donation to the charity of that 28 year old hockey player from the NY Rangers that died on Friday.  Tragic.  :)id you hear about it?

Yeah, very sad.  Good of you to do what you can to help.  I wonder if there are any more causes - for helping kids in person - that might increase the opportunities of meeting some single dads who are decent guys.

Good luck with your studying!

[ve01603]

As far as volunteering, I plan to make a donation to the charity of that 28 year old hockey player from the NY Rangers that died on Friday.  Tragic.  :)id you hear about it?

Yeah, very sad.  Good of you to do what you can to help.  I wonder if there are any more causes - for helping kids in person - that might increase the opportunities of meeting some single dads who are decent guys.

Good luck with your studying!

Thanks for the support but I'm doing well.  I will meet someone when the time is right.  Can't force it.  Back to the books.

[The Ride]

I find it interesting that these men steer away from high maintenance women... .maybe because they are high maintenance too?

Here is an interesting link I found to an interview with Sandra L Brown, author of "How to Spot a Dangerous Man".  Her answer to question number three is interesting.

www.girlfriendbooks.com/?p=187

[seeking balance]

Thanks.  Excellent post 2010, as usual.  I did a copy and paste so I can go back and reread it until it sinks in as there is alot of food for thought there.

I'm still curious to know how someone can pick a vulnerable person out of a room of people without even talking to them first.  I'll let you all know what I find out. 

Look at yourself, your childhood, how you learned to value yourself and what you base your own sense of self on.  From this self anayzing, you will be able to let us know how you have been picked out of the crowd by PD's.  It is through self analysis that we change the energy we put out into the crowd... .T2H gave you a good starting place - dig deeper and see what you come up with.

Overall, I think we need to be careful not to label all emotionally immature people or addicts as PD - there is a difference.  I know when I first joined here, I was prone to seeing PD's everywhere - but going back to the actual 9 criteria for BPD; many emotionally immature or addicts have 3 or 4 traits - but it takes more than that to be an actual PD.