Recalling back to the moments after initial breakup.

[IntoTheWind]

I forgot that this happened and wanted to share/write a note so that I remember it, and maybe it'll help others that are going through something similar.

When I initially broke up w my ex, it felt like I was in a different universe. The limbo halfway between complete enmeshment and regaining my identity again was awful. I can only describe the feeling as my mind/soul literally being pulled apart.

I had two identities, the "old me" that pre-existed my ex, and the "new me" I had created to stay with her. The breakup left me somewhere in-between those two identities. This, along with the confusion was one of the most traumatic things about the breakup. The breakup challenged my entire sense of self, which was purpose built to spec completely around her and her multiple facades, I fully intended to become this "new me" forever. I wasn't even happy with the "new me" and I couldn't keep it up, it was seriously unhealthy but I wanted to stay there. If she didn't break up with me I'd still be in it.

It felt so much safer and easier to stay with her than confront the reality of what was happening and let go of the "new me". I desperately tried to make that happen, rather than face the reality or revert to the "old me" that seemed so far away. Months later, I still feel a little pain in my chest when I think about doing something I enjoy that she wouldn't approve of, as if I'm being a "naughty" child, it's fading but it's still there. I do remember during the relationship I tried to pull elements of the "old me" into this new identity I created but it was like she knew and batted it away. I don't blame her for this, we were both participating in it.

No Contact and time is the only way to get clarity on the situation. It's very easy to forget how low you were when you start to feel better. I'm writing this note so that I can remember how bad it was in case she ever contacts me again.

If you feel like you're going through this, you're not alone, and believe me, when you start to peel away from the enmeshed state "reality" comes back piece by piece. When I look back on the relationship, I have a sense of "what the hell happened?", as if it flew by in an instant, I remember the early days and the ending well, but the middle where I felt like I was literally someone else are so foggy and unclear, it's as if I was intoxicated - the passage of time in the relationship was seriously warped in a few other ways too that are still mind blowing to me. I'll probably post about that in another thread.

[Dogslistentome]

First of all, I’m so sorry you had to go through that experience. I am really grateful you chose to express all of this because I need those reminders as well. I am in the thick of it, attempting no contact and desperately trying to piece myself together .. mostly trying to find the self that I lost years ago before this toxic rollercoaster  ride.

I’m sure I will need this reminder to and I can come back to your post to breath a sigh   of relief that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.. even if I can’t see it yet.

[Sappho11]

BPD relationships really have the potential to turn a healthy person into an empty shell.

Every New Year's Eve, I fill in a little free booklet called the YearCompass, which helps you close out the old year and set aspirations for the new year. Usually I know exactly what I want, but last year, while still together with my BPDex, I struggled to fill it in. The only wish I could think of was "to get closer to [him]", both emotionally and in terms of living together. Everything else, all my other aspirations which supported my true, core personality, seemed meaningless.

It was the same with activities I had previously enjoyed. Compared to the "high" of being with him, everything else seemed boring and unattractive. I put "high" in quotation marks because being around him didn't even feel like a high, a) because we argued constantly and b) save for the idealisation phase, even when things were good, they were just that... barely good. And yet, the serotonin spike was so huge that it made everything else pale in comparison.

This was already at the stage where I knew I wasn't my "old self" anymore, an old self I had been quite happy with, and which had been replaced by a needy, clingy, desperate woman whom I didn't recognise, and whose sole reason for existence was to please that pwBPD. Rationally I knew that this was wrong, but I didn't know how to help myself, and I was far from being able to see the abuse angle at that time.

He discarded me for the first time barely a week into the new year. For the two weeks that followed, the emotional pain was so indescribably intense that I would rather have been dead than endure it any second longer (thankfully, I had one loyal friend who didn't leave my side during that time). Nothing else in my life – my parents passing away, my first love passing away, abuse at the hands of foster parents and step siblings, being on the streets as a student etc. – had ever elicited such a severe emotional response. Nothing.

In hindsight, it was partially the breaking of the trauma bond/the emotional addiction, as well as the death of the False Self (or "new me", as IntoTheWind writes) this relationship had caused me to create. I remember listening to compositions of mine during the first discard and thinking, "I wrote that? I was that person once? Impossible". We had only been together for four months before the final discard, but the person I had been before I'd entered the relationship seemed impossibly far away.

My ex came back after two weeks and h00vered me back in, and as is typical, the second round was even worse than the first. This time, though, I kept remembering every now and again who I truly was, and laid down some boundaries. This wasn't well received. In fact, the more I returned to my old, True Self, the more mistrustful my BPDex would become. At the same time, whenever I fell back into the False Self, trying to please him, he was disgusted with it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, it was a no-win situation.

The second discard in May hurt tremendously, but it was far removed in terms of intensity from the first. My False Self had nothing left to give, and my True Self was beginning to flare up here and there. What a combination! My ex promptly, and I mean PROMPTLY, dropped me like a hot potato. Still, while it hurt, it hurt a lot less. Why? I now faintly sensed that there was this old, True Self that I could go back to, that it was still there somewhere if I just followed the thin thread I was holding. Luckily, this was indeed the case. (A luxury that my ex, who had no personality whatsoever, certainly wasn't able to indulge in... I suppose someone with a stronger inclination towards schadenfreude might find that delicious.)

I remember listening to some Brahms after the second discard and thinking "this was your life before all this mess started, and this life is still here for you right now". It was like coming home after an egregiously exhausting, failed holiday.

I'm three-and-a-half months out now and I feel pretty close to my old True Self, with very few, mild interruptions. The other day I read that these intermittently-reinforced relationships actually alter your brain's physical (!) structure, enlarging the amygdala (the "lizard brain" which conjures up primal fears and anxieties) and shrinking the hippocampus (involved in short-term memory, which is crucial for activities such as reading and learning). I still have trouble focusing for any longer stretch of time, but it slowly gets better with practice. A brain rehab is really in order now.  

[poppy2]

This is a wonderful thread. I've found that only now, 4 months out, I have begun to really integrate the shattering experience, and it feels to me as if focusing on the pain, damage, and hurt that I was previously projecting onto my ex is a kind of homecoming for this self lost (or taken over) in the relationship. It feels great and very fragile. And I think it will also ameliorate the need to protect myself from her in the future.. as I am taking back the parts of myself that were invested in her in the first place. That is not to say I don't ruminate about conversations with her every single day.. but these conversations are connected to my wish for recognition, healing, justice etc. rather than a specific person. I don't even know how I'd feel if I saw her. Does anyone else find this? The BPD-ex becomes like a straw (wo)man in your head after a while?

Sappho, I love your name. At the beginning of the silent treatment/Stonewalling, which at that point I could never have imagined would turn into a full, NC breakup, I was reading Sappho and trying to connect to her idea of 'not mourning at the site of the muses'.. from Fragment 150, here www.gillianspraggs.com/translations/sappho150.html  ... but then again I was in a lesbian relationship so go figure.

For me, I remember very clearly the experience of feeling absolutely, utterly worthless.. and it felt so foreign to me, not because I always have such great self-esteem, but rather because I have never actively felt so incredibly lacking of any worth at all. And a part of me was surprised, and this is how I knew that somebody else was making me feel this way. I so wish I had protected myself emotionally from this sort of emotional reasonace, without needing to find out why, fix or repair it, or act in a reciprocal way. Then again, I didn't know what I know now about the disorder. I also loved her, was feeling vulnerable, and couldn't imagine that, for some people, love is ever greater control, or like a script you only have a role in and nothing more. And it actually scares me greatly that our reptilian brain has been amplified thru the process of intermittent reinforcement... did it say, anywhere, how we might remedy that? probably creative activities can help.

I'm raising a glass to the four of us
poppy

PS does anyone else have the control style(s) of their ex identified? I was thinking about this and the FOG today. mine was the tantalizer, with a strong undercurrent of punisher. And IntoTheWind your descriptions really speak to me, major parts are also like a blur for me. I think towards the end I was in such a state of denial I literally invented fantasies of togetherness to prop my brain up... but also based on the trust, safety and support that had been intermittently dangled in front of me. I still have lots of these chest pains, with music, certain words, locations, artworks, really so many things. Today I was trying to imagine them as doorframes, instead of as stabbing wounds.. something i could pass between. If it works out, I'll let you know

[Sappho11]

This is a wonderful thread. I've found that only now, 4 months out, I have begun to really integrate the shattering experience, and it feels to me as if focusing on the pain, damage, and hurt that I was previously projecting onto my ex is a kind of homecoming for this self lost (or taken over) in the relationship. It feels great and very fragile. And I think it will also ameliorate the need to protect myself from her in the future.. as I am taking back the parts of myself that were invested in her in the first place. That is not to say I don't ruminate about conversations with her every single day.. but these conversations are connected to my wish for recognition, healing, justice etc. rather than a specific person. I don't even know how I'd feel if I saw her. Does anyone else find this? The BPD-ex becomes like a straw (wo)man in your head after a while?

I think my ex was a strawman all along. He was a symbol of the love I'd always longed for, though I wasn't really sure what exactly I loved him for. I once put his good qualities in writing before we got together, but even then I knew that most of it was my projection. At the time I was listening to a lot of Welsh music, and one song in particular made me think of him. It was called Llyfr Gwag – empty book. That's what he felt like to me.

I also wondered why this good-looking, intelligent, empathetic, charming man who came from a caring family and a solid economic background had achieved absolutely nothing in life. I thought I could be the motor to spur him into action – no matter which action, I just wanted him to to make something, anything out of his life. When we got together, he told me: "For the past six months, you've been my driving force." That went well for about a month or so, until the first narcissistic injury happened – ironically related to exactly that (he had complained about his dead-end low-income job and I had naively asked him whether he wanted to take time off to work on his passions). It was all downhill from there.

What I'm trying to say is, there was simply nothing to him from the beginning. He cleverly reeled me into his life by pretending to be exactly the person I wanted to be with for a while (he had been making actual, written notes on my likes and dislikes for two years!), and I filled in the blanks with my own projections, drunk with misguided hope.

Sappho, I love your name. At the beginning of the silent treatment/Stonewalling, which at that point I could never have imagined would turn into a full, NC breakup, I was reading Sappho and trying to connect to her idea of 'not mourning at the site of the muses'.. from Fragment 150, here www.gillianspraggs.com/translations/sappho150.html  ... but then again I was in a lesbian relationship so go figure.

Thank you. Literature does help a lot, doesn't it? It's curious how such texts often seem to find us when we need them most. Sometimes I've had unread books on my shelf for years and when I finally decided to read them, they contained exactly whatever consolation or tough love I needed to hear at that particular moment.

For me, I remember very clearly the experience of feeling absolutely, utterly worthless.. and it felt so foreign to me, not because I always have such great self-esteem, but rather because I have never actively felt so incredibly lacking of any worth at all. And a part of me was surprised, and this is how I knew that somebody else was making me feel this way. I so wish I had protected myself emotionally from this sort of emotional reasonace, without needing to find out why, fix or repair it, or act in a reciprocal way. Then again, I didn't know what I know now about the disorder. I also loved her, was feeling vulnerable, and couldn't imagine that, for some people, love is ever greater control, or like a script you only have a role in and nothing more. And it actually scares me greatly that our reptilian brain has been amplified thru the process of intermittent reinforcement... did it say, anywhere, how we might remedy that? probably creative activities can help.

Yes, you are absolutely right, creative activities played a huge part. From what I recall, the article quoting that study mentioned several remedies, which were
1) learning to play a musical instrument (generally one of the best things one can do for one's brain – apparently regularly playing the piano can even stave off Alzheimer's)
2) meditation (which thickens the prefrontal cortex, which is linked to planning and attention control) and
3) reading, particularly material on a level that is slightly challenging.

[ILMBPDC]

He discarded me for the first time barely a week into the new year. For the two weeks that followed, the emotional pain was so indescribably intense that I would rather have been dead than endure it any second longer (thankfully, I had one loyal friend who didn't leave my side during that time). Nothing else in my life – my parents passing away, my first love passing away, abuse at the hands of foster parents and step siblings, being on the streets as a student etc. – had ever elicited such a severe emotional response. Nothing.

This is so interesting and is making me rethink my thoughts surrounding my first discard in January. I thought my over-the-top emotional response was about a previous ex  (psychopathic con man, a relationship which I never processed my emotions surrounding and instead went on antidepressants and ignored it), but now I'm wondering. I was walking around in such a high from all of the love bombing that his discard was like having the rug ripped out from under me. It made no sense, whatsoever.  At the time I felt like it was such a short relationship (technically just 6 weeks but I had been in love with him for months before that so it should count IMO, even if we weren't officially together) that that strong of a response couldn't have been about him, but I think it was. Wow

[jaded7]

That is not to say I don't ruminate about conversations with her every single day.. but these conversations are connected to my wish for recognition, healing, justice etc. rather than a specific person. I don't even know how I'd feel if I saw her. Does anyone else find this? The BPD-ex becomes like a straw (wo)man in your head after a while?


For me, I remember very clearly the experience of feeling absolutely, utterly worthless.. and it felt so foreign to me, not because I always have such great self-esteem, but rather because I have never actively felt so incredibly lacking of any worth at all. And a part of me was surprised, and this is how I knew that somebody else was making me feel this way. I so wish I had protected myself emotionally from this sort of emotional reasonace, without needing to find out why, fix or repair it, or act in a reciprocal way. Then again, I didn't know what I know now about the disorder. I also loved her, was feeling vulnerable, and couldn't imagine that, for some people, love is ever greater control, or like a script you only have a role in and nothing more. And it actually scares me greatly that our reptilian brain has been amplified thru the process of intermittent reinforcement... did it say, anywhere, how we might remedy that? probably creative activities can help.
 

Raising a glass to you, such a thoughtful post. Of course, much resonated with me, I execrated a couple pieces here because they really hit me.

Rumination for me goes on, not as bad as it was 15-16 months ago, but it goes on. And the conversations in my head with her, trying to get her to understand that's not what I said, that's not my intention, but you said you'd _______, remember?, but we made the plan, together, remember? You yell at me and accuse me of the very things you do to me, can't you see that it's confusing to me?

Ahhh, how I could go on. But mostly, like you say, it's about recognition, healing, justice. I've been slandered and gaslighted, and there's not a thing I can do about it, now or then. And it's so ...frustrating to be so, intentionally it seems, misunderstood.

And the feeling of worthlessness. Ugh. When the person you love calls you names, tells you you're a fraud professional, have no friends, contribute nothing to society...all so untrue, how could she believe that? How could she say those things? It's so out of my wheelhouse...I've never said things like that to anyone, and never would. And she even used the word 'worthless' to me- when I offered to go shopping for our camping trip to save her time and money, she exploded at me saying "you don't want to go shopping, you're just trying to cover your ass...and you're worthless in a grocery store anyway, I'd just have to do it all over again.". Oh, these words ring in my ears.

I'd be interested in the type of control people identify here. She was very controlling, extremely controlling- especially about the food I ate, about how I marketed my business, how I talked with customers, on and on. I once even gently pointed out to her that she was controlling, gently and kindly, when she had mentioned to me that she might be hard to deal with.

[poppy2]

"I think my ex was a strawman all along. He was a symbol of the love I'd always longed for, though I wasn't really sure what exactly I loved him for. I once put his good qualities in writing before we got together, but even then I knew that most of it was my projection. At the time I was listening to a lot of Welsh music, and one song in particular made me think of him. It was called Llyfr Gwag – empty book. That's what he felt like to me."

hey Sappho, you know, I entered a BPD forum with some questions because I wanted to understand what it's like in their head. I did this because I was hoping to forgive the ex who lives inside my head, to find her humanity somehow and let her go.. and my way to forgiveness is usually understanding. You know what I found? this post:

'I don't know what happened.
But I've hurt people before by creating a person that they could love, and then couldn't be that person any more...
I've also been hurt by being someone they could love, and then them not loving me anymore.'

ie, it's all true. They really do create a person, and we prop up the relationships. This also really explains to me why, when I needed my ex' s help, for her to step up, she just left... without me doing most of the work, it was just too difficult impossible for her to continue. This hasn't helped me to forgive though. I find it psychopathic..to lose what should be a shared reality so suddenly, it's not wonder we go crazy afterwards.

It hasn't helped me to forgive, but I think it will help me to find distance. People without PDs just don't act like that, and that is an encouraging thought.

 

[Sappho11]

hey Sappho, you know, I entered a BPD forum with some questions because I wanted to understand what it's like in their head. I did this because I was hoping to forgive the ex who lives inside my head, to find her humanity somehow and let her go.. and my way to forgiveness is usually understanding. You know what I found? this post:

'I don't know what happened.
But I've hurt people before by creating a person that they could love, and then couldn't be that person any more...
I've also been hurt by being someone they could love, and then them not loving me anymore.'

That is fascinating. Thank you for this insight.

ie, it's all true. They really do create a person, and we prop up the relationships. This also really explains to me why, when I needed my ex' s help, for her to step up, she just left... without me doing most of the work, it was just too difficult impossible for her to continue. This hasn't helped me to forgive though. I find it psychopathic..to lose what should be a shared reality so suddenly, it's not wonder we go crazy afterwards.

Yes to every single word! It was exactly the same here. My ex discarded me the very minute I asked him to be there for me a little. He just couldn't handle doing his share of the relationship. Yet somehow he managed to keep up a facade of being caring and kind, despite being neither of these things.

It's a difficult thing to process when that shared reality turns out to have been a complete illusion.

Light-hearted anecdote, I always used to do the laundry, his included, even in the earliest stages of the relationship (big mistake – ladies, don't recommend). Once I was running late and I asked him to fold the laundry when it came out the dryer. He said sure. When I came home that night, he had neatly folded and put away all his clothes, while mine were still in a pile. When I asked him why, he said he didn't want to "fold them wrong"... and at the time I thought it sounded plausible. In hindsight it was just one of the hundreds of instances where he was only looking out for himself, with no regard for my side o the story.

It hasn't helped me to forgive, but I think it will help me to find distance. People without PDs just don't act like that, and that is an encouraging thought.

That's a good thought to hold on to for sure.

[poppy2]

Hey,

I really like reading your replies. It's soothing to know it was exactly like that for somebody else out there, although you seem to be having a better time recovering. I wonder if it's because you could see the PD behaviour the second time around? I think it's helpful with abuse to really suffer the 'last straw'. I didn't get that chance (also a blessing in disguise, of course.) Mine just disappeared right after the needing help moment, and then painted me black. I'm convinced that the total out of the blue shock is why I still can't accept it, somehow. My mind cannot catch up. But I'm trying.

Thanks for your sharing your light-hearted remark. That's so dysfunctional! Oh my God. I also remembered one today, but it was more about manipulation.. she told me how much she loved being cooked for as 'nobody ever cooked for her.' Naturally, I kept cooking. I feel a little like Pavlov's dog when I think about cooking for a romantic partner now.

[poppy2]

I feel like I should be clearer, sorry. What I mean is - the mind needs to somehow accept that a certain reality was real, even though it had participated in an illusion for a long time which it thought was reality. And I think 'seeing' the PD, or at least a destructive pattern of behaviour, and recognizing it as such can help with that. Whereas I feel like I was a victim of a hit and run. Of course there were signs and bad behaviours before. But I also think our minds are sort of basic. Like, creating an effigy of the person and burning it, or hugging it and walking away, or whatever.. that is what I think my mind also needs (and therapy).

[Ad Meliora]

Yes, I do know what you are talking about.  In my first post 2 days after this one I described it as an "alternate reality", but it may as well have been a different universe.

I think why my BPDex didn't want to meet my family or friends even, was because she wanted to keep me there, in her reality where she could have better control.  No one to call her bluff, see her tricks from a different angle.  It's only a theory in my specific situation.

I had a decent self-concept and good amount of self-confidence.  I think this may have been one of the things that attracted her to me.  I think she wanted to have some of that--knowing who oneself is and being comfortable with it.  And if she couldn't have it, well, destroy what there is and bring me down to her level.  She did a pretty good job.  Better than anyone else.

I remember driving home from her place most nights upset (a 10+ mile drive).  Upset I didn't stand up for myself, that I didn't set better boundaries, that I let her talk me into or out of something.  I was in a fugue, often driving in icy conditions down winding roads along the Mississippi bluffs.  I would go for miles like this not consciously registering the lights or crossings because my mind was in knots.

These feelings would pass, and then I would rationalize that I was just momentarily upset and overreacting to the drama she wished to create.  I'd go back the next day or next week, and do it all over again.  It did seem easier at the time than a hard break and no contact.  She was a beautiful woman, I was intensely attracted to, we had many things in common--or so I thought.

[Sappho11]

Hey,

I really like reading your replies. It's soothing to know it was exactly like that for somebody else out there, although you seem to be having a better time recovering. I wonder if it's because you could see the PD behaviour the second time around?

The truth is, while the relationship had been bad from the early days, I didn't put the pieces together until after it had ended for good. There was PD behaviour even in the first half, before he first discarded me, but I just didn't recognise it as such and thought I had lost my soulmate. There were so many doubts in my mind, including the little voice that said "But if he were your soulmate, would he be treating you this way?" And this little voice received more and more credibility the second time around, that's true.

And you're right, had we only broken up once and left it at that, I might never have put two and two together and figured out his behavioural patterns matched that of my diagnosed high school friend exactly. The abuse was there from the beginning, but perhaps it took the intensity of the second cycle to figure out what was going on.

It's terrible but occasionally looking at the "Bettering" board helped, too. Some of those stories on there – they made me realise that things would ever only have got worse, not better.

I think it's helpful with abuse to really suffer the 'last straw'. I didn't get that chance (also a blessing in disguise, of course.) Mine just disappeared right after the needing help moment, and then painted me black. I'm convinced that the total out of the blue shock is why I still can't accept it, somehow. My mind cannot catch up. But I'm trying.

From what you're saying, that's plenty of abuse right there. The rug pull feels the worst.

It's likely that your ex will be back at some point for a second cycle (there was a statistic somewhere here, which said that more than seventy (?) percent gave the relationship more than one shot). The option to delve deeper into the pits of hell is probably there, somewhere, and will manifest in the future. It's up to you to take or to reject it. To be frank, I don't regret my second cycle: It helped me uncover things that would otherwise have been completely inaccessible to me, and helped me develop a new compassion for others as well as the ability to stand up for myself in personal matters. So it wasn't all for nothing.

That said – you and I were lucky. I think it was Couper who called ordeals like yours and mine a "commuted sentence". I have no inkling of what it must be like to get drawn back in, spend ten years, twenty, thirty or more in a fog, only for it all to come crashing down and having to regret all the time of your (!) life that you lost and will never get back.

Thanks for your sharing your light-hearted remark. That's so dysfunctional! Oh my God. I also remembered one today, but it was more about manipulation.. she told me how much she loved being cooked for as 'nobody ever cooked for her.' Naturally, I kept cooking. I feel a little like Pavlov's dog when I think about cooking for a romantic partner now.

Oh goodness, that's a sentence I might have said myself at some point But in all seriousness, I relate to the sentiment. After the breakup, I too thought "I will never do this and that again for a partner". I was so burnt out. Truth is, I've now warmed up to the fact that I will probably do many of the same things again (short of doing someone else's laundry during the honeymoon phase!), but not only because my partner will enjoy it, but because I enjoy doing things for my partner.

What I'm trying to say is, if you enjoy cooking for someone else (you're probably quite good at it, too!) and it gives you joy, this joy will eventually come back. As it should. 

I feel like I should be clearer, sorry. What I mean is - the mind needs to somehow accept that a certain reality was real, even though it had participated in an illusion for a long time which it thought was reality. And I think 'seeing' the PD, or at least a destructive pattern of behaviour, and recognizing it as such can help with that. Whereas I feel like I was a victim of a hit and run. Of course there were signs and bad behaviours before. But I also think our minds are sort of basic. Like, creating an effigy of the person and burning it, or hugging it and walking away, or whatever.. that is what I think my mind also needs (and therapy).

I see! Forgive me if I have mentioned the following before. After the breakup, I made a bulleted list of all the little things, situations and instances where my ex had behaved poorly towards myself and/or others. It included the big lies, but the majority was made up of small instances that seemed harmless at the time (as so many detrimental factors did). Initially I didn't think this would anywhere, but it ended up being an entire catalogue of several pages, and it kept growing and growing as I remembered more... This was probably the moment where it clicked for me just how bad that relationship had been.

Perhaps this could help make more sense of your relationship? It's difficult to see the PD aspects if we think of an anecdote or two. But seeing them all at once can really make a difference.

[Sappho11]

Yes, I do know what you are talking about.  In my first post 2 days after this one I described it as an "alternate reality", but it may as well have been a different universe.

I think why my BPDex didn't want to meet my family or friends even, was because she wanted to keep me there, in her reality where she could have better control.  No one to call her bluff, see her tricks from a different angle.  It's only a theory in my specific situation.

I think your theory is spot on, and I arrived at the same conclusion after the breakup with my ex.

He actively eschewed all social meetings with third parties, and explicitly (!) discouraged me from any that I wanted to organise. In hindsight it's amazing how he managed to weasel out of every single social obligation I had with ever-changing excuses.

During the handful of meetings with other people that were inevitable – such as presenting me to his parents for Christmas and meeting my best friend who lives next door to me – he would nervously clam up and not say a single word for hours.

In the idealisation stage, we went to a concert and two gallery openings, and he would sulk by my side as I talked to other peope. Afterwards, he gave me such a hard time about this that we never went to any cultural event ever again.

And him presenting me to his friends? Completely out of the question. In all the time that I knew him, I never got to meet a single friend of his.

The control aspect in our relationship, too, was huge. Part of the reason for the second discard was that I had told him I had lined up with some new acquaintances who really wanted to get to know him, too.

I had a decent self-concept and good amount of self-confidence.  I think this may have been one of the things that attracted her to me.  I think she wanted to have some of that--knowing who oneself is and being comfortable with it.  And if she couldn't have it, well, destroy what there is and bring me down to her level.  She did a pretty good job.  Better than anyone else.

This reads a lot like symptoms of narcissism, which is highly comorbid with BPD. Being your own person and having good self-confidence signals to narcissists that you'll be a good source of attention and validation, in other words – narcissistic supply.

Some psychologists equate BPD with so-called covert narcissism. Might be a good keyword to google, if you haven't already. The parallels are mind-blowing.

These feelings would pass, and then I would rationalize that I was just momentarily upset and overreacting to the drama she wished to create.  I'd go back the next day or next week, and do it all over again.  It did seem easier at the time than a hard break and no contact.  She was a beautiful woman, I was intensely attracted to, we had many things in common--or so I thought.

That's a valuable piece of insight right there. My therapist said early on that everyone has this inner warning system, but most people – especially the caring, empathetic souls – mistakenly "learn" to discount their intuition, to turn it off or tune it out as they grow up, to their very own detriment. And in this case, one's task is to re-learn this pattern, and instead heed this inner voice and act accordingly – by standing up for what one feels is right.

Easier said than done, especially if you're someone who likes to approach things from a pure rational perspective (been there... am still there).

[poppy2]

I think why my BPDex didn't want to meet my family or friends even, was because she wanted to keep me there, in her reality where she could have better control.  No one to call her bluff, see her tricks from a different angle.  It's only a theory in my specific situation.

I experienced this exactly. Once after I tried to hold my ex to account for something she did her reply (a legal letter smearing me) gave me the feeling that I just didn't know her at all. I knew about her friends, we even have distant mutual friends, but I never met anyone, and I *never* saw her with anybody else. How strange is that? and how strange we accepted it. It is such a huge red flag.

Yes to all the other things you said as well. In terms of being destroyed, I can only relate that I agree with Sappho and I am convinced my ex has 'quiet borderline' or vulnerable/covert narcissism. Part of that is pathological envy and a need to be superior to others. But I think the knowledge of a pathology only goes so far on feeling the truth of it. For me, it's now helpful to think of it as a hit and run. I guess people who suffer that don't bother asking why it happened, just focus on recovering from it.

in terms of what you say about driving and being so preoccupied, it sounds like you could have had an accident. And I think there are these sort of 'collateral' damages to the relarionship... like many people wrote about losing money, or friends. I would like to list mine:
- some clothes and objects I really care about
- the ability to earn money for 4 months (now trying to change that) and my savings
- the ability to think, research and write -
- good sleep
- motivation to keep up my physical health
- the focus I had on recovering from a past sexual trauma has been really pushed under... now it's hard to trust anyone

and what I have gained is:
- a therapist
- immense knowledge about PDs and bad behaviours
- some disturbing knowledge about my childhood
- help from different communities, online and physical

[poppy2]

It's likely that your ex will be back at some point for a second cycle (there was a statistic somewhere here, which said that more than seventy (?) percent gave the relationship more than one shot). The option to delve deeper into the pits of hell is probably there, somewhere, and will manifest in the future. It's up to you to take or to reject it. To be frank, I don't regret my second cycle: It helped me uncover things that would otherwise have been completely inaccessible to me, and helped me develop a new compassion for others as well as the ability to stand up for myself in personal matters. So it wasn't all for nothing.

That said – you and I were lucky. I think it was Couper who called ordeals like yours and mine a "commuted sentence". I have no inkling of what it must be like to get drawn back in, spend ten years, twenty, thirty or more in a fog, only for it all to come crashing down and having to regret all the time of your (!) life that you lost and will never get back.

Thanks, yeah. I think the boards are so helpful because it basically gives you an insight into the future. They helped me to understand why my ex never actually broke up with me... she just stonewalled me. So many times I realized she was piggybacking, or mirroring, the things I said, and so for example after I had mentioned she broke up with me, she still hedged her bets and said she broke up with the 'dynamic' between us. Actually, it's just a way of keeping the supply around. But I seriously doubt she will try and contact me again. I tried to hold her to account for a sexual assault, and recieved a legal letter in return smearing me as a stalker. Part of my motivation for writing that email was to let her know she couldnt gaslight me anymore and that I knew what she had done and I think this is such a 'threat' to the true self that I need to be painted black in return. It's true that the circles of hell are always waiting, if you want to enter them... and I rationally agree with you. We were lucky (although it hardly feels like that.) And maybe reading those other boards will help me accept that, on a basic level. Where I'm coming from now is just the attempt to try and 'accept' what happened to me, and I think for that the mind really does need some kind of trick or trigger.

What I'm trying to say is, if you enjoy cooking for someone else (you're probably quite good at it, too!) and it gives you joy, this joy will eventually come back. As it should. 

Thanks... I love cooking for others

I see! Forgive me if I have mentioned the following before. After the breakup, I made a bulleted list of all the little things, situations and instances where my ex had behaved poorly towards myself and/or others. It included the big lies, but the majority was made up of small instances that seemed harmless at the time (as so many detrimental factors did). Initially I didn't think this would anywhere, but it ended up being an entire catalogue of several pages, and it kept growing and growing as I remembered more... This was probably the moment where it clicked for me just how bad that relationship had been.

Perhaps this could help make more sense of your relationship? It's difficult to see the PD aspects if we think of an anecdote or two. But seeing them all at once can really make a difference.

Thanks a lot. I have tried to do this occasionally, although I haven't assembled them all in the list. I think part of the benefit of such a list, for me at least, is to imagine how I should have been treated differently, or what I deserved, and re-write the relationship in those terms. I'll definitely keep this very helpful suggestion in mind. But, for me at least, I suffered a kind of 'betrayal' and it gave me ex a huge amount of psychological power over me, which reason doesn't seem able to comprehend. I'm going to make another post about it actually. Thanks again for your advice Sappho. I'm curious to ask - Was this list a sort of light bulb moment for you, where you emotionally accepted it was an abusive situationship and not a relationship? Like you could put the illusion behind you?

[Sappho11]

(...) We were lucky (although it hardly feels like that.) And maybe reading those other boards will help me accept that, on a basic level. Where I'm coming from now is just the attempt to try and 'accept' what happened to me, and I think for that the mind really does need some kind of trick or trigger.

That's understandable. Acceptance will come in due time, and probably sooner than you think. You're doing so well – working through everything here, in writing, and with your therapist. Our brains are hardwired to resolve trauma and to provide closure, and it will come – there's simply no way around it.

Thanks a lot. I have tried to do this occasionally, although I haven't assembled them all in the list. I think part of the benefit of such a list, for me at least, is to imagine how I should have been treated differently, or what I deserved, and re-write the relationship in those terms. I'll definitely keep this very helpful suggestion in mind. But, for me at least, I suffered a kind of 'betrayal' and it gave me ex a huge amount of psychological power over me, which reason doesn't seem able to comprehend. I'm going to make another post about it actually. Thanks again for your advice Sappho. I'm curious to ask - Was this list a sort of light bulb moment for you, where you emotionally accepted it was an abusive situationship and not a relationship? Like you could put the illusion behind you?

I hope this is not triggering to you, but what may stand in your way currently is the unresolved sexual abuse angle. This from another survivor of sexual assault (happened when I was 16, spent around five years working through it on my own with only the help of online forums, didn't have the means to afford therapy back then). These experiences come with so much irrational shame, irrational guilt, fear, panic, distress, feelings of disgust etc. that I imagine it's almost impossible to work through a broken relationship without addressing this first.

In many ways, my current situation is a lot easier than yours. While my ex did torture me emotionally, I was fine with the sexual aspects of the relationship, which always make up the most primal and vulnerable part. Since I got out before he could physically harm me (he battered his ex so it would likely only have been a matter of time), it was relatively easy to objectively look at the everyday ways in which he behaved like a common jerk – and luckily I had a good friend who still makes fun of my ex's shortcomings to this day. Comedy is tragedy plus time, and turning some of my ex's behaviour into light-hearted jesting helped a lot.

To answer your question, yes, the list helped immensely. Another thing I did was write out a realistic (!) timeline of my life had we stayed together, got married, had children etc., and it turned out to be the worst possible life I could imagine. But it all finally clicked when I went back to my super-detailed journal entries from the time when I suddenly "fell in love" (or rather, fell for the ruse), and I realised, in hindsight, that what I had described wasn't love, had never been love – it had been callous, conscious manipulation from my ex even before we got together. E. g. he would fish for compliments and then wait for my reaction; were they forthcoming, he would be tender, and when I gently teased him, he would punish me (telling me I had "no heart" and was an "unempathetic piece [of work]", for instance – all with a smile, of course, so he'd have plausible deniability later). When I told him that such he remarks hurt, he didn't take responsibility and never apologised for anything. There was something snaky and calculating in his gaze at all times. His attentiveness was precisely measured and/or withheld. And so on and so forth. That's when it finally clicked that this love had never been real, that it had been a complete sleight-of-hand, bait-and-switch illusion right from the start.

It also led me to the realisation that this manipulation had been the norm from the start, and the idealisation stage had been the exception, which only happened because I had single-handedly propped it up with my own efforts. It was a valuable realisation, because it made me see that whatever good there was in that relationship didn't come from him, it came from me – and that I would thus be able to carry these positive aspects into my next romantic relationship, too, whenever it may happen.

[poppy2]

hey Sappho,

You know, I just wanna say how much I appreciate your reply (and others I've gotten). I've never actually been on online forums before and I'm surprised at how engaged people are, and it can be a lifeline.

It's great that you kept journal entries of the time, so that you can revisit them and see yourself in a whole new light. This seems to be the transcendent good in having a relationship with a BPD person - they were mirroring you, and so you can see your best qualities come out (but in a hopeless situation). I just have my memory, and abuse amnesia as well I think. For me there is definitely the added aspect of a 'confused' attachment, that is, returning to an abuser. It's a survival mechanism - the threat induces the need for protection from the person who is a threat. Fortunately I have a therapist and I imagine eventually, as you so rightly point out, the body and mind will be able to integrate the trauma. Thanks for pointing that out too.

You know how we have the feeling that what they do is inhuman, or monstrous? Apparently their 'lizard brain' is over developed. The more self-aware ones even realize this, I found this blog entry very helpful - https://meowse.livejournal.com/277600.html What I mean is - I think the wish to reconcile the 'Jekyll and Hyde' dynamic that PDs create is actually laudable, but it might be more like 'two brains' - the cold as ice manipulator or abuser/assaulter, or lizard brain, which was over developed through trauma, and the mammalian brain, responsible for our more humane functions, ethics, and so on.

Did you study classics, by the way? I did (through philosophy), I don't know if I agree with the statement comedy is tragedy plus time, but it's a great expression and certainly belongs to a 'classical' mindset. It's great that you have a friend who can make jokes. Since feeling so disempowered I also wrote quite a few 'reads' of my ex to make myself feel better, such as:

Youre so insecure if I met you on the street I'd put up warning signs

Youre so incompetent that knives aren't safe around you

Youre so egocentric that if I sneezed you would say bless me.

So I hope you get a chuckle out of them. And it's inspiring as ever to read about your journey of recovery and how you're able to re-write the situationship.

[Ad Meliora]

Thanks Sappho and Poppy for the comments.

"Some psychologists equate BPD with so-called covert narcissism. Might be a good keyword to google, if you haven't already. The parallels are mind-blowing."

I'll have to check this out.  I haven't googled it.  There's lots of terms I'm still unfamiliar with so it helps to write them out where appropriate.

I'm like you Poppy, I'm not on other forums.  My BPDex just affected me so deeply and is still bothering me a year later, I decided to seek out other resources.  I looked up 'how to cope with breaking up with someone with bpd' and got to this website.  I'm glad I did.  Already learned about Trauma Bonds and, yeah, gonna need a therapist if I want to keep moving forward on this.  Brain chemistry was altered--no doubt!

[Ad Meliora]

Some psychologists equate BPD with so-called covert narcissism. Might be a good keyword to google, if you haven't already. The parallels are mind-blowing.

I did look this up, and my mind is blown.  The parallels are uncanny. This article really did it for me on the behaviors I witnessed.  They seek out empathic and positive people--seeing that as valuable (to destroy?)

https://www.verywellmind.com/understanding-the-covert-narcissist-4584587

Here's a snippet which was exactly what I experienced:

"Rather than explicitly telling you that you're not important, they might stand you up on a date, wait until the last minute to respond to texts or emails, always show up late for events with you, or never make confirmed plans with you at all. There is no regard for your time or interests, leaving you feeling small, unimportant, and irrelevant."