Emotional immaturity - I think I get it now

[unicorn2014]

As I'm preparing for the possible ending of my relationship due to having to set a boundary I'm beginning to understand. One thing my partner always told me is he didn't think he was married. He simply couldn't wait to get together with me. I understand being unhappy and lonely in your marriage. I had that experience in mine when my ex relapsed after our daughter was born however I knew to get out before I had an emotional affair. That was a long time ago.

It's funny but after understanding my partner it kind of seems futile to be angry with him . Maybe that's the radical acceptance I was looking for.

Somebody at my church asked who I was spending Christmas with. I think she was concerned about me,

I think if my partner doesn't have a lawyer by the end of the year I'm going to simply tell him to contact me when he does. I am sure he is going to leave me if I do that,

Someone said people in dysfunctional relationships threaten abandonment as way of getting over the person. I've been threatened with that so many times by my partner that I am sure my soul is full of scars. In fact my former sponsor left me because things got so bad in that department she couldn't take it anymore.

This is an aspect of my relationship I haven't talked about on BPD family. It's shameful to me but I want to bring it out in the open so I can be prepared for the probable dysregulation if I have to enforce my boundary. This whole subject is very sad to me,

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[whitebackatcha]

As I'm preparing for the possible ending of my relationship due to having to set a boundary I'm beginning to understand. One thing my partner always told me is he didn't think he was married. He simply couldn't wait to get together with me. I understand being unhappy and lonely in your marriage. I had that experience in mine when my ex relapsed after our daughter was born however I knew to get out before I had an emotional affair. That was a long time ago.

It's funny but after understanding my partner it kind of seems futile to be angry with him . Maybe that's the radical acceptance I was looking for.

Somebody at my church asked who I was spending Christmas with. I think she was concerned about me,

I think if my partner doesn't have a lawyer by the end of the year I'm going to simply tell him to contact me when he does. I am sure he is going to leave me if I do that,

Someone said people in dysfunctional relationships threaten abandonment as way of getting over the person. I've been threatened with that so many times by my partner that I am sure my soul is full of scars. In fact my former sponsor left me because things got so bad in that department she couldn't take it anymore.

This is an aspect of my relationship I haven't talked about on BPD family. It's shameful to me but I want to bring it out in the open so I can be prepared for the probable dysregulation if I have to enforce my boundary. This whole subject is very sad to me,

You aren't the only one here with a situation that some people would judge. You deserve support, not shame. Nobody else has the right to judge your life. 

I'm so sorry you're going through this. You are very strong to know you need this boundary. I'm not very good at saying the right thing in my posts like the more experienced members here seem to be. I just wanted to let you know you have support here.

[Concerns]

Hi, I'm a little confused. May I ask.

Are the two of you married?

Is he married to someone else and you're having an affair with him?

Does he need to get a lawyer to divorce her?

What is the boundary you set?

[babyducks]

Hi Unicorn,

It's not unusual for people, all people not just people with PD's, to be impulsive and unwilling to face the real hard work of the practical realities of forging a relationship together.   It's easier to kick the can down the road.   Blame others.   Crumble under the difficulties of standing up against conflict.  Find excuses.   Prevaricate.

Judging is not usually helpful.    Whether it is us judging ourselves or judging the people around us.   Acceptance goes a long way to bringing peace.   Acceptance doesn't mean agreeing.   Or liking.   To me it means, this is what I have today, this is the best I can do with it.

'ducks

[unicorn2014]

T

As I'm preparing for the possible ending of my relationship due to having to set a boundary I'm beginning to understand. One thing my partner always told me is he didn't think he was married. He simply couldn't wait to get together with me. I understand being unhappy and lonely in your marriage. I had that experience in mine when my ex relapsed after our daughter was born however I knew to get out before I had an emotional affair. That was a long time ago.

It's funny but after understanding my partner it kind of seems futile to be angry with him . Maybe that's the radical acceptance I was looking for.

Somebody at my church asked who I was spending Christmas with. I think she was concerned about me,

I think if my partner doesn't have a lawyer by the end of the year I'm going to simply tell him to contact me when he does. I am sure he is going to leave me if I do that,

Someone said people in dysfunctional relationships threaten abandonment as way of getting over the person. I've been threatened with that so many times by my partner that I am sure my soul is full of scars. In fact my former sponsor left me because things got so bad in that department she couldn't take it anymore.

This is an aspect of my relationship I haven't talked about on BPD family. It's shameful to me but I want to bring it out in the open so I can be prepared for the probable dysregulation if I have to enforce my boundary. This whole subject is very sad to me,

You aren't the only one here with a situation that some people would judge. You deserve support, not shame. Nobody else has the right to judge your life. 

I'm so sorry you're going through this. You are very strong to know you need this boundary. I'm not very good at saying the right thing in my posts like the more experienced members here seem to be. I just wanted to let you know you have support here.

thank you, as you know I did not know he was married when he first started talking to me and when I asked him he lied and said he wasn't.

I went to confession and cleared the board.

Now I wait... .

[unicorn2014]

Hi, I'm a little confused. May I ask.

Are the two of you married?

Is he married to someone else and you're having an affair with him?

Does he need to get a lawyer to divorce her?

What is the boundary you set?

We are not having an affair, that is the point I was making. He hid his marriage from me because he didn't think he was married. He was disassociated or deluded or deceptive or all three. He needs to get a divorce . He lied to me about that as well. There's a lot of past history.

[unicorn2014]

Hi Unicorn,

It's not unusual for people, all people not just people with PD's, to be impulsive and unwilling to face the real hard work of the practical realities of forging a relationship together.   It's easier to kick the can down the road.   Blame others.   Crumble under the difficulties of standing up against conflict.  Find excuses.   Prevaricate.

Judging is not usually helpful.    Whether it is us judging ourselves or judging the people around us.   Acceptance goes a long way to bringing peace.   Acceptance doesn't mean agreeing.   Or liking.   To me it means, this is what I have today, this is the best I can do with it.

'ducks

Thank you baby ducks, that's what I'm working on. Confession allowed me to heal , now I have to forgive and prepare for the possibility that my relationship might be ending. I don't think he realizes I'm serious about my boundary. I think it's going to be as simple as let me know when you get divorced. I really hope I don't have to do that.

[patientandclear]

Unicorn, I really relate to what you're saying here about the scars from the BPD partner's instinct to abandon or threaten abandonment as a way to manage difficult emotions.

My ex partner with BPD handles fear and pain in that way.  It's made it so hard for me to say the things I need to say when we are in communication -- it always feels like the stakes are tremendously high.  When he leaves, he leaves for months, and it shreds what we were doing and learning and building.  Sort of the ultimate in high-level extinction bursts.

In your case, while your partner may react to your real boundary (and good for you for being so clear about where that needs to go to truly take care of yourself) by saying he's going to leave -- I wonder if he will maintain that.  I'm guessing he may tell you he is leaving in order to dissuade you or punish you or get you back on the farm.  If that doesn't work, he may move on to Plan B, which involves getting a divorce.  Or trying in some other fashion to persuade you not to require one.

[unicorn2014]

Unicorn, I really relate to what you're saying here about the scars from the BPD partner's instinct to abandon or threaten abandonment as a way to manage difficult emotions.

My ex partner with BPD handles fear and pain in that way.  It's made it so hard for me to say the things I need to say when we are in communication -- it always feels like the stakes are tremendously high.  When he leaves, he leaves for months, and it shreds what we were doing and learning and building.  Sort of the ultimate in high-level extinction bursts.

In your case, while your partner may react to your real boundary (and good for you for being so clear about where that needs to go to truly take care of yourself) by saying he's going to leave -- I wonder if he will maintain that.  I'm guessing he may tell you he is leaving in order to dissuade you or punish you or get you back on the farm.  If that doesn't work, he may move on to Plan B, which involves getting a divorce.  Or trying in some other fashion to persuade you not to require one.

Thank you patient, I remember it got so bad my former sponsor left me over it. My partner would tell me he would have a woman come over to my place and get his stuff, or he'd tell me he'd be coming out to my area, but he wouldn't be seeing me, or he'd tell me I had three days to contact him and then he was changing all his information. I remember the last time he did that he totally denied it afterwards. He had told me he was going to be changing his number and then when I pointed this out to him afterwards he flat out denied it.

To be truthful, I have caught him in a disassociation, that was a long time ago, he said he forgot who he was. I was naive at that time and tried to pull him out of it. That is when I still believed he was getting a divorce.

He is carrying on with me as normal and its Mon Dec 21. I think he's confident he's going to have something for me at the end of the month. Today he's working.

I remember when you and others recommended I set that boundary, that I would be happy to resume the relationship once he was divorced. I also think its true that I had to be ready to take that step, and now I am. I know its going to be hard if I have to and nasty, so I am reading about extinction bursts. Ive been through a lot already but I was never able to hold my boundary before. Now I am ready to.

-----------

Modified to add my partner has never actually left me because I got frantic when he threatened to and tried to get him back. I'm not that person anymore. Now I'm ready to let him go. I have no doubt its going to be awful if it comes down to that but I know I can post here about extinction burst and get support . I don't think he has any idea I am serious about upholding my boundary this time.

[flourdust]

Good luck to you. From the recent history you've described, I guess he'll try to ignore your attempt to go NC, by continuing to email, text, call, etc. To maintain the boundary, you'll have to stay strong and ignore the attempts to manipulate or wear you down into contacting him. To make this easier on yourself, reduce the number of channels he can use to reach you  -- block him on FaceTime, set your email program to dump his messages unread into a spam folder, etc.

[patientandclear]

Modified to add my partner has never actually left me because I got frantic when he threatened to and tried to get him back. I'm not that person anymore. Now I'm ready to let him go. I have no doubt its going to be awful if it comes down to that but I know I can post here about extinction burst and get support . I don't think he has any idea I am serious about upholding my boundary this time.

I know my ex partner was shocked when I found my line and held it.  At first he expected that when he warmed and reached out, I would just resume where we left off.  I didn't and it really threw him for a loop.  He did show a lot more respect for me after that, and that was the only thing that ever cracked his certainty about whether it was good to handle things as he had been.  However, it also shifted my value in his eyes.  Until then I was valuable because I would always be there no matter what.  He didn't treat me especially well, but he did keep coming back regularly to renew our association because I was very reliable.  Once I set that boundary and meant it, I gained his respect, but lost my value as a sure thing.  It made me feel weird about how much he had liked our connection -- made me wonder how much of it stemmed from me being the biggest doormat on his horizon.

[unicorn2014]

Patient and clear, I'm sorry you went through that. I just talked to my SO and he was actually on his way to meet with a divorce attorney so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'm not getting my hopes up. Next time there's a problem I'm not going to let it get this far, I will set a boundary much sooner.

My former sponsor could not help me, she was just telling me to leave, she finally threw her hands up and left me. She had some borderline too, she used to tell me she was my friend and she'd be there for me. She abandoned me, and my partner didn't. It was ironic.

[unicorn2014]

Good luck to you. From the recent history you've described, I guess he'll try to ignore your attempt to go NC, by continuing to email, text, call, etc. To maintain the boundary, you'll have to stay strong and ignore the attempts to manipulate or wear you down into contacting him. To make this easier on yourself, reduce the number of channels he can use to reach you  -- block him on FaceTime, set your email program to dump his messages unread into a spam folder, etc.

Thank you flour dust, its not January 1 yet. I'm not going to set a no contact boundary if he doesn't follow through, however he did say he was going to meet with a lawyer today so we will see what happens. I'm not leaving him. He said he would leave me if I separate from him so I'm preparing for that possibility. I'm merely setting a boundary and it looks like maybe I won't have to separate from him. We will see. I had wanted to do a therapeutic separation but he refused so I have to set a boundary instead.

[flourdust]

Good luck to you. From the recent history you've described, I guess he'll try to ignore your attempt to go NC, by continuing to email, text, call, etc. To maintain the boundary, you'll have to stay strong and ignore the attempts to manipulate or wear you down into contacting him. To make this easier on yourself, reduce the number of channels he can use to reach you  -- block him on FaceTime, set your email program to dump his messages unread into a spam folder, etc.

Thank you flour dust, its not January 1 yet. I'm not going to set a no contact boundary if he doesn't follow through, however he did say he was going to meet with a lawyer today so we will see what happens. I'm not leaving him. He said he would leave me if I separate from him so I'm preparing for that possibility. I'm merely setting a boundary and it looks like maybe I won't have to separate from him. We will see. I had wanted to do a therapeutic separation but he refused so I have to set a boundary instead.

I'm sorry - I couldn't follow any of that. I know that your plan is to do something on January 1, but now I'm confused as to what it is.

I thought that your plan was to tell him that you didn't want to hear from him until he files for divorce -- and then enforce that.

It sounds like you are saying that your plan is to tell him that you don't want to hear from him until he files for divorce -- and then just carry on as you have been, unless he decides to leave you. This sounds like a passive-aggressive play -- leave him by getting him to leave you. It might work with a non, but BPDs are great at making threats and not following through on them.

So what are YOU planning to do, regardless of what he does?

[unicorn2014]

Flour dust I am sorry for the confusion. I am not passive aggressive at all. I had wanted to separate from him if he couldn't show me proof he took action to file his divorce by the end of the year but he didn't want to do that. So I was told I was going to have enforce a boundary. It's not the end of the year yet. That is why I have not enforced my boundary yet. I'm giving my significant other an opportunity to fix things. The reason for this thread was not to rehash that but to share an insight, that is in my original post. I was talking about how my significant other didn't think he was married and I was relating that to emotional immaturity. I don't want to lose sight of my original insight.

Can we please focus on my original topic?

[patientandclear]

That's positive news, Unicorn. You asked for what you want in clear, unequivocal terms, and that is giving him a chance to actually meet your actual needs if he decides he wants to do that.  That's terrific.  Who knows what he will come through with, but this is all heading in the right direction it seems.  Less drama, more clarity, more ownership.  

[unicorn2014]

Thank you patient and clear, I've really worked hard on the undecided board and then on the staying board and now here I am on the saving board. He keeps telling me he didn't think he was married and I'm like "yeah but the rest of the world thinks you are." At any rate, we will see what the rest of this month brings. I'm not happy it took him this long to get to this point, but at least I know where I stand now.

[Skip]

I think if my partner doesn't have a lawyer by the end of the year I'm going to simply tell him to contact me when he does.

I think this is exactly right.

You want this relationship. He does too. He has not been honest with you. 

You have, in turn, been picking him apart in day to day communications. This can't end well.

Both of you stepping away and then deciding how important this relationship is, is very important.

I think the challenge for you is to step away in a constructive way.

What do I mean?  He is mostly looking at your actions as manipulation and punishment. Whether you intend it or not, he is having a reasonable negative reaction to it. It's important to heal that injury.

How?  One way is to send him a nice card with a hopeful message that explains what you are doing in loving terms. "I want to be with you in a regular relationship. The conflict over the divorce is tearing us apart. I want to restructure the interim relationship so that we have realistic expectations of each other and we are enjoying each other. I want to get away from things that hurt you and hurt my feelings... ."

You have to heal this if you want it to work.  You also have to stand your ground with strength and grace.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you Skip, as it turns out the lawyer he talked to today is in the building he is staying in! Its hard for me not to make a snarky remark about that.

I actually have sent him cards in the past. He asked me to get a church calendar for him. Perhaps I will send it at the end of the year along with your suggested message.

One of the things he attacks me over is he says I totally destroyed the structure of our relationship that we had in the beginning. I had set up as a DD/lg relationship and when I realized that he was not mentally fit to be leading the relationship I had to tear that structure down.

We just got into an argument over the phrase "then I won't concern myself with that", he said that to me. There is a conflict in my family between my dad and my brother over my grandmother's will that I am not a part of. My significant other had offered to call my father because my father was speaking harshly to me. I told my significant other that would not be necessary as I have heard nothing further from my father, and that was what was hurtful.

I know others had told me in the past that I had a lot of triangles going on in my relationship. I am now trying to keep my significant other out of my relationship with my father and he was hurt by this.

I don't have a whole lot of patience left for my significant other which is why I started this topic on emotional immaturity after somebody suggested I look at the subject.

I'm having a real hard time accepting that my partner didn't think he was married. Any suggestions?

[Skip]

I'm having a real hard time accepting that my partner didn't think he was married. Any suggestions?

Most of what is going on between the two of you is negative - I said to you many times - don't paint him black - there won't be any relationship left to recover. The interaction between the two you is toxic - both ways. It has to stop. You have to stop your end of it.

If you can't moderate it - and maybe you can't - then just ask for six weeks of space so you can get your act together.  Apologize for being difficult, tell him you want things to work out, the divorce issue is a deal breaker, and then bug out.

Don't wait until its too late. It's getting progressively worse.

[unicorn2014]

Skip, I hear what you are saying and I was able to have a constructive conversation with him today. He has said so many things to me that were negative in the past and now he thinks I am overreacting. I told him he needs to be very careful with phrases he's used in the past prior to a dysregulation such as "then I will not concern myself with that."

I have faith we can work the relationship out, if I can stop being bothered by the fact that he said he didn't think he was married.

I appreciate the warning not to paint him black. That might have happened in my previous marriage and my ex had done something really bad to me, like along the lines of relapse and not pay child support. I'm not going to compare the two relationships.

I'm going to be patient as he is going back to meet with the divorce attorney tomorrow.

I told him I was hypersensitive right now and that we are going through a difficult phase.

I do believe if I had been firmer on my boundaries earlier in the relationship we wouldn't be in this position now however I didn't have the help I needed in the beginning.

As I said my former sponsor left me because she couldn't handle what his dysregulations were doing to me. That was before I found this website. My last therapist asked me if I felt safe with my partner. My former nurse also asked me the same thing.

[Skip]

So if he says he went to an attorney, does he get a saucer of milk?  

This is still push, pull, manipulate, dodge, complain, react - day in, day out, both ways. It's toxic Unicorn. Its setting all kinds of bad precedence. Healthy people don't do this.

Are you engaged, not engaged, did it change yesterday, did it go back a day later? If he sees the attorney, can he call you sweetie?  If the divorce isn't filed on February 17th, does "sweetie" go away?  

This is emotional immaturity - as you say.  Both of you.

I suggest that you select a therapist to oversee the therapeutic separation and have him set the ground rules and monitor the two of you. He can work with each of you separately.  You can get someone to work on Skype. It doesn't have to be intensive or costly.

At this point, it looks like anything short of that is going to be toxic.

He doesn't accept you as a person able to administer this type of thing, and you r don't respect him, so get someone you both will respect and trust.

[unicorn2014]

Skip, I can not afford a therapist and he will not do a therapeutic separation. I took off my ring and have stopped referring to him as my fiancé. That hasn't changed. I'm dealing with my discomfort at his pet names. I don't know if you read my other posts but he only goes to a therapist if he thinks he has a problem he can not solve. Otherwise he uses to therapists to vet my concerns and prove to me he doesn't have the symptoms or behaviors or traits I say he does.

He's going to meet with a divorce attorney tomorrow.

I understand you think I'm being emotionally immature.

I think he should be more mature then me as he is 16 years older then me but I guess that doesn't matter.

I should also add we are both adult children in recovery, so we have that in common, so we are both going to act like children at times. I have been the one leading the cause on recovery throughout this whole relationship.

I think it was you that said because he doesn't want to do a therapeutic separation that I was going to have to set a boundary if he didn't file and i said I was prepared to do that. He told me today that he's going to meet with this attorney one more time and then give me proof so that I can contact her to verify.

If we make it through this gauntlet then I'm going to be very careful to make sure I stick by my boundaries in the future no matter what he says or does.

As far as saucer of milk goes, well, I'm the kitty, that's one of his pet names for me, so do I get a saucer of milk if I remain nonreactive and calm? 

(This hurts, don't get me wrong.)

[Skip]

I understand you think I'm being emotionally immature.

I think he should be more mature then me as he is 16 years older then me but I guess that doesn't matter.

I said both of you    You see it in him. You may not be seeing it in yourself. I'm trying to help with that.

My suggestions are just suggestions.  At the end of the say, you have all the information, so you are far better than any of us to make assessments and decisions.

[unicorn2014]

Skip, I do see it in myself and that's why I'm working an adult child program of recovery and reading understanding the borderline mother. I realize my post could be taken as painting him black so I guess I should stop posting about his immaturity. That just leaves his extinction burst if I have to enforce my boundary at the end of the year. Lets hope it doesn't come to that. I should point out I couldn't afford to be in this relationship. He's the one who made it happen. I couldn't afford to fly to see him much less pay for a therapist to supervise a therapeutic separation he doesn't want. I have enough on my plate taking care of my own therapy needs. That's part of the imbalance in this relationship, he's way out of my league financially  speaking.