Mediation: When the other party changes their mind.

[jp617251]

Hi,

Some general advice required with thanks in advance... .

Long story short... .Orders in place that allow for extension of weekend time between Dad and (nearly) 4 yr old.  

Currently alternate w/end until 12pm Sunday, Dad requesting increase to 5pm Sunday prior to child starting kinder, aiming to settle child into every other w/end as a regular and ongoing arrangement.

Mum declining to increase that time, also declining to give a projected date that this could happen.

Recent mediation, Mother agreed to extend to agreed time in Jan 2017. (Not yet signed as presumed documents in mail).

Mother then reneges on agreement with lengthy emails claiming favouritism by mediator towards Dad, that child will not be emotionally ready to extend time by set date, claims emotional abuse from Dad towards Mum for comments during mediation that were 'not picked up' by mediator.

Just after some thoughts, experience and opinions from anyone on these boards, next course of acton is court application I expect but any other advice would be appreciated.

Although we have not signed on the agreement made, is the summary of mediation document admissible as future court evidence?  To demonstrate that we agreed and then Mum backed out?

The family dynamic is one where we parallel parent mostly with some co-parenting.

Mum seems unable to respect boundaries, lacks emotional control but displays controlling behaviours, frequent paranoia - asked if mediator was working for Dad etc.

Accusations of abuse, pressure when Dad asserts himself in trying to reach agreement, discuss alternatives.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks

J



 

[ForeverDad]

A standard comment is that mediation early in a separation or divorce case is unlikely to reach agreement and even if one is reached then it is high risk it will be objected to before it can get to court to become a court order.  Often too the judge will give opportunity for a last minute recanting before signing and filing the settlement and making it a part of the court record.

That appears to have been the case with you too.  Everyone is blamed as basis for her to recant so she holds tightly onto her control.

I separated when my son was nearly 4 years old and fortunately had 3 day weekends from Friday 6 pm to Monday 6 pm.  But that didn't stop my Ex from obstructing as much as she could.

Do you and/or your ex use daycare?  What parenting time do you currently have?  Is it alternate weekends for you?  Do you have one or more midweek overnights or evenings?

You could spend a lot of time going back and forth with her trying to get mediation to work.  Generally courts want you to try that first anyway.  Or even require that.  But once you decide it is doomed to failure then you do take it to court.

What I would encourage you to do is not to 'timidly' request your bare minimum.  You're the parent, you have a right to make requests you believe are appropriate.  For example, if you both work then likely you use daycare.  So you could file with court your request to expand your weekend since, among other things, Sunday 3 pm cuts Sunday activities too short, can't have dinners with relatives, etc.  So request Friday 6 pm to Monday 6 pm.  That way you can pick up from daycare Friday afternoon and drop off to daycare Monday morning.  Surprise, fewer in-person exchanges!  Yay!

Then when your child starts preschool or kindergarten the long weekend can reinforce your current goal, Friday after school to Monday before school.  That's not an unreasonable request.

Similarly, if you don't have midweek overnights or only evenings, then you can ask for an overnight between your weekends.  There is nothing unreasonable about that.  I recall when I had a 3 hour visit 6 to 9 pm, there was barely time for supper and then it was time to get back in the car for the return exchange.

One consideration, courts listen to parents who state that they need their child back early so they can be settled and ready for school Monday morning.    You need to be prepared to answer such claims or even judicial presumptions.  Make sure your child is always ready and prepared for school the next morning.

How you want to appear before the court is as a father who has always wanted to be involved in parenting as much as possible.  Also, as much as you have to report your complaints about the current order and Ex's actions, reactions and overreactions, you must even more present your proposed SOLUTIONS.  Try to be perceived as the problem solver, not the problem.  Show that your efforts are to attain the best outcome for your child.  It's not about you or child's other parent, it's about the child.

[jp617251]

Hi,

thanks so much for your reply, I can tell you have insight by your comments.

Our Son is due to start kinder next year, he does not attend day care, his Mum is at Univeristy, and I am a nurse and do shift work.

Currently I have him each Tuesday, and alternate weekends from 10am Friday til 12pm Sunday.

Our orders have a vague statement - IT IS NOTED that both parents will consider extending the Sunday to 5pm at an appropriate time - I regret not getting something more solid but judge was reluctant to discuss past 3 years of age.

I was accused of threats to kill and of being a risk to Son and so overnights were (not uncommonly) delayed until Our Son was 3, he will be 4 in October.

My psychiatric assessment identified no risk/need for treatment, which is good as I'm a nurse of some 15years.

The weekend overnights were introduced incrementally to gradually increase the amount of time our Son spends with me, the increments were 3 monthly, and this ended in April just gone so recently I asked if it would be ok to extend to the Sunday around my birthday - last week - so that I might be able to take our Son away for a day or so, request was declined and I was informed that Son wouldn't be 'emotionally ready' to extend Sunday at any time soon.

I initiated mediation, we attended last week and during the session, agreed to extend til 5pm in January, and also for me to have our Son on an additional day between my usual weekends as a gap of 7 days without him seeing me at all (which is what is happening now) is too long really.  Also additional holiday time during school holidays was discussed as Son starts kinder next year and I'd like some school holidays time too so that we can do some activities together.

Anyway, the day after mediation, I have an email, changed her mind, now wants me to wait til April 2017 to extend to 5pm on the Sunday, happy for me to have extra day to negate the 7 day gap of our Son not seeing me.  

I was disappointed obviously as I thought we had agreed, she claims I pushed/bullied her and mediator was biased.  :)espite this I have made another concession and agreed to April 2017 for the extension to 5pm Sunday, because I'd prefer to avoid court, but also because, if we end up there, it shows I have been willing to work with her, despite feeling I shouldn't need to.

Currently I am taking our Son to playgroup, which means I collect him from his mum at the primary school his half-sister attends, have been doing so for several months.  So, effectively, I would be able to get him there on time for kinder/primary school in future as I'm pretty much doing that already in getting myself there for playgroup.

Now I wait to hear, but now also, I am receiving long long emails discussing concerns about my parenting decisions and how they may be negatively impacting our Sons development.

Anyway, that is where I'm at, thanks for reading, I do agree that it important to go for what I think is best for our Son and I take heed of your great advice. especially the last paragraph.

Thank you

[enlighten me]

Im just wrapping up a court case with my ex wife today in the uk. I wll be getting full custody of our sons.

The one thing that I have learnt since 2010 when she left me and started divorce proceeding is that everything she does is a defence mechanism for a perceived threat. No matter how much evidence is given to her she wont believe it because it doesnt fit with her reality. I have done a number of things to help improve it. Ive been flexible with my times, ive not pulled her up on things, ive done the majority of pick ups and drop offs. All of these made life a little easier but in the end depending on whats going on in her life will ultimately effect how she behaves towards me.

Sometimes there is no way of talking them around so you just have to let the courts decide for you. The more you can show that you have been flexible and have tried to work things out the better it is for you in the eyes of the court.

Good luck and I hope that things work out for you.

[Panda39]

"Now I wait to hear, but now also, I am receiving long long emails discussing concerns about my parenting decisions and how they may be negatively impacting our Sons development."

I wanted to encourage you not to listen to this kind of stuff.  My SO's uBPDxw spent a lot of time doing this during their separation/divorce... .trying to make him feel like he was a bad dad.  He wasn't and isn't and once he figured that out these kinds of emails and comments lost their power.  Much of this type of thing can also be projection.  Projecting her feelings of inadequacy as parent on to you.

My SO also went to mediation and his ex almost immediately changed her mind about somethings they agreed to but he was lucky because the agreement had been signed.  Ultimately they could not agree on everything and ended up in court were he had a favorable outcome.  I agree with ForeverDad ask for what you want be assertive and reasonable.

Panda39

[Waddams]

If it's just wanting extra time on Sunday's, this isn't exactly good legal advice, but I used to just keep S12 when he was younger past the deadline the court docs and give him back late.  I'd text his mom "we're gonna be late - will be around x:xx pm." 

Naturally she'd go berserk at first, and I pretty much just told her sue me if you don't like it.  I took the stance that as long as the kid's school work is getting done, you're not interfering with anything else, and there's no real harm that can be demonstrated, even if she did take me to a judge, I'd just say "yup, I did it.  It didn't hurt anything, and we had a great time in the extra time we were together."  I didn't figure any judge would really mind a father spending extra time with his son.  His mom figured that out too and eventually things evened out.

[ForeverDad]

The weekend overnights were introduced incrementally to gradually increase the amount of time our Son spends with me, the increments were 3 monthly, and this ended in April just gone so recently I asked if it would be ok to extend to the Sunday around my birthday - last week - so that I might be able to take our Son away for a day or so, request was declined and I was informed that Son wouldn't be 'emotionally ready' to extend Sunday at any time soon.

Anyway, the day after mediation, I have an email, changed her mind... .I was disappointed obviously as I thought we had agreed, she claims I pushed/bullied her and mediator was biased.  Despite this I have made another concession and agreed to April 2017 for the extension to 5pm Sunday, because I'd prefer to avoid court, but also because, if we end up there, it shows I have been willing to work with her, despite feeling I shouldn't need to.

So, in effect, you just had another mediation session but without the mediator.  I suggest two possible scenarios to undo the concession.

• 1.  She does not reply within a reasonable time.  Then send a followup email that withdraws your offer to delay and you will follow the terms reached in mediation, commenting that there is no need to delay 3 months.
• 2.  She replies but includes additional negative terms.  Then send a followup email that withdraws your offer to delay and you will follow the terms reached in mediation, commenting that you cannot continue to keep renegotiating away your delayed parenting.

Also, you can note that you've bent over backwards for months/years in order to be reasonable but that you are a normal parent and court would see no basis to limit your parenting.

For example, she might get a judge to agree to a 'no overnights' clause when a child is a baby but as the child gets older it gets quite weak.  Frankly, excluding overnights would only be valid when the restricted parent has or is likely to abuse, neglect or endanger.  Her claiming the child is "too young" or "isn't ready" is just denying the other parent.

You mentioned wanting to get holidays?  You don't have alternating holidays now?  That's standard.  So are vacations.  I separated when my son was 3 and have always had my county's alternating holidays and my county's 3 weeks vacation per year (maximum of 2 weeks at a time).  If you don't get at least 2 or 3 week-long vacations with your child, whatever terms are normal for your court to specify, then you really need to get that too.  No court should deny you vacations without valid basis.  As much as possible you need to 'normalize' your order so that no future judge wonders why you have a less-than-normal order.

That said, it's good that you get more than one visit between the alternate weekends.

One more thought... .You mentioned you got a good result from your psychiatric assessment.  What were her results?

[bravhart1]

Emotionally ready to be with his dad? I would ask her to explain this in detail. What child must be "emotionally ready" to spend time with his father? Ludicrous!

Don't fall for this, ask for 50% custody of your son. You have just as much right to be in his life as she does. She is setting the tone for all future interactions, she calls the shots, she will dole out time to you as she sees fit. Wrong!

File for 50/50, using the logic that your son needs both his parents on a consistent basis. More father/son time isn't less mother time, it's not about her, it's about your son. It's ALL his time, and his time should be that he sees BOTH his parents consistently.

I'm passionate about fathers being important, but fathers that have to fight to have "hours" in their child's life must stand up against this clear "mother imposed" barrier. Especially when mom is battling a PD.

Best of luck!

[jp617251]

Hi,

Thanks again for replies... .  So, no reply in the past week from Mum, or mediator & so will withdraw offer tomorrow, and set about arranging a court application. 

Mum had no psychiatric assessment, it was only for me based on what she told them, I approached court the last time around with the view to resolve and settle things for the future, this time I can certainly demonstrate some behaviours that are somewhat bizarre, controlling, anxiety based etc.  I imagine we'll be directed towards a family report again and will have orders formulated with their guidance.

I'll post again when I have gotten a bit further down the track.

Cheers all! 

[ForeverDad]

Going forward, if there are any evaluations or whatever ordered for you, try to get them to be ordered for both of you.  The court may agree.  Perhaps you can state you've been evaluated and want her to be evaluated as well.  In the past she likely was making more allegations than you and so of course they responded to her allegations.  You may have to get some things documented to an extent where they'll scrutinize at both of you and not just you.

Please note that psych evals are of limited benefit since in most areas they cover just mental health issues and often don't link them to the impact on custody and parenting aspects.  Think, for example, about alcoholism.  An alcoholic may be an 'okay' parent since the person may not drink & drive or may not get too intoxicated to impact parenting.  Or... .an alcoholic can get out of control and become abusive or drink & drive.  The diagnosis may essentially be similar in both cases but it's the behaviors that make the biggest difference.

We often don't get a diagnosis.  I never did and I was in & out of court from 2005 though all of 2013, over 8 years.  Court wasn't concerned with getting a diagnostic label, what made the difference was the behaviors.  Yes, at the end while court was "inclined to order Mother to have individual counseling, there is no evidence that Mother has the funds to participate in such counseling or insurance to cover the cost."  That was left open-ended and to my knowledge nothing has come of it.  So while here we can identify traits of narcissism, borderline, etc, we're not seen by court and professionals as qualified to 'play doctor' so we do best to identify and report the poor behaviors.  Behaviors are more actionable than a diagnosis.

[enlighten me]

I would like to add to forever dads comments on psych evals. My ex wife had one when I tried to stop her taking my boys away. A one hour eval isnt enough and she was able to hold it together and come across as a victim of my behaviour.

As he said her actions will be more compelling evidence. The weight of an experts opinion will count in her favour. Its not something that I would risk unless she was an obvious pscotic mess.

[jp617251]

Hi All,

A quick update... . The mediator was confident on getting an agreement to extend in April 2017, and also ex was going to agree to Son spending time with me on 'her' Friday up until kinder early next year.  I was going to settle and revisit arrangements prior to commencement of primary school, but then fate stepped in and seems to have decided for me.

All agreement is off the table according to ex and there will be no parenting plan - i.e. nothing in writing to support her suggestion, which is:

For us to make arrangements by mutual agreement.

I may be able to have some Fridays between now and kinder next year, but if she's got plans, or its school holidays, then it'll be a no - basically translates as an ad hoc arrangement depending on what plans she has.  This kind of leaves me up in the air, guessing whether I may be having our Son on that day, doesn't seem that reasonable to me.

Possibly some extra time at Christmas depending on etc... .(see above) - doesn't matter, I'm happy with Christmas arrangement as per existing orders.

Ex would like some time over Easter 2017, it falls on my weekend next year.  Last year I only had Good Friday, worked every other day - Can't say I'm keen to give up the weekend but its probably why 'extra at Christmas' is being floated.

Son's 'emotional readiness to extend Sundays will be considered again after 1st term of kinder next year.

Explained that she has sought legal advice and has been assured she is operating with childs best interests in mind.

I'd appreciate any thoughts but clearly I'm looking at submitting an initiating application soon, discussing with legal rep this coming week.

I wonder if its worth filing a comprehensive parenting plan to cover until our Son reaches Yr 7, which is the time he'll switch to high school?

That way we'll all know where we are and there will be consistency, and continuity, moving forwards.

Thanks in advance.

[bus boy]

Hi 617251, I did a mediation back in November.  It was due for review last Thursday.  I backed out of the mediation process and filed an application for trial. I kept a very detailed journal of everything. Where I'm from all the evidence from past court and the evidence from the mediation can be used in my next trial. My ex wife stuck to the order as far as access times but she was impossible for everything else.

 You should keep posting on here for advice it will help you in court. I don't know how long you have been in the family court system. I've been in it since 8 years, it gets expensive. Make sure you sit with your lawyer and try to think of everything you can for the court order. My lawyer thought we had an iron clad order this last time but my ex found ways to manuplate it. You keep posting on this board and you will get good advice. I have posted on here a few times and got good advice, advice that I will be using foe my next court date.

[ForeverDad]

If I may ask, why do you think going to court, now that mediation has failed or fizzled, is not a valid option now?  One of my typical comments is that you can usually get more from court than the crumbs an entitled Ex is willing to let you have.

If you have a lawyer, what does the lawyer say is a typical minimum for a parent to have?

For example, your Sunday noon return is much earlier than most orders.  Usually the reason for an early return is that there is a reason the parent has to return the children sooner, either due to distance or some issue with the parent.  With your child entering school soon, it is not improper or unrealistic to ask for your weekend to be from Friday after school to Monday to school.  (Schools often have Monday holidays off to so if you don't work those Mondays ask to have your time extended to Monday pm.)

Do you see this as setting boundaries?  Accepting her terms without real testing with a somewhat neutral (or a little less biased) court will effectively be enabling her to think she can continue setting the terms with occasional crumbs thrown in.

[jp617251]

Hi

Thanks for replies, I did/do in fact see court as an inevitability however where I am (Australia), it is a requirement to at least try mediation initially, however fruitless it may seem.  So, on my part, I have shown to be willing to make (arguably unnecessary) concessions in order to come to an agreement.  I asked for that agreement to be formalised via written parenting plan & Consent Order Amendment.

This has been rejected (parenting plans/orders = less control I expect), therefore mediation has been a failure (as I expected).  Furthermore, Mum is now unhappy with pre-existing arrangement as per current orders because Son is with me for Easter 2017, saying that she never agreed to it during last court appearance and her family withhold the right, as Christians, to 'have' our Son for at least some of every Easter period moving forwards.

Our orders don't specify Easter but I imagine if they did, it would be every other, its a holiday period and is important to me too.

So, now I'm in a reasonable position to approach the court system with the intention to have wide and ranging orders put in place to enable stability and consistency for our child to extend throughout his childhood, whilst maintaining that element of meaningful/substantial time with me(the non-residential parent), and his Mum.

I'll be seeing my lawyer tomorrow and have already forwarded a template of orders detailing how contact orders could pan out over the coming years (looking at Friday post school - Monday pre-school, alternate weekends by commencement of Primary School, one mid-week o/night, 50% all holidays etc), along with orders covering schooling, overseas travel, passport etc.

I'll pose the question of what a typical minimum for a parent may be.

I do expect a lot of conjecture and nonsense in the affidavit response as occurred the last time, I have a fairly detailed journal of events of the past 18 months - 2 years along with text/emails so that I can respond with questions in respect to certain unexplainable behaviours, responses and reactions that have happened over this time.

Tensions have been at a high over the past weekend and I can tell she is elevated, many attempts to engage me in conflict, which I have been able to dissolve thankfully.

Despite the fact that we share equal parental responsibility, do you feel it is important to be very specific in wording orders to avoid unpredictable situations, such as for schooling/medical/holidays etc?

Thanks for your time everyone, really appreciated.