Kicking around the idea of moving home...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

After BPDh's divorce threats of last week, I'm just tired. Tired of his anger, tired of his threats, and tired of things being off/on chaotic despite my best efforts. You were all right, that any boundaries are met with threats, and my only real recourse is to walk away when he's verbally abusing me, but that makes him feel "you don't want to be with me". Lose/lose, except for at least I'm not listening to all the things he dislikes about me.

I don't want to leave, but for the first time, I'm seriously thinking about what that would look like. I've been looking at apartments, and I have loose plans in my head. I have therapy tomorrow, so maybe she can help me figure things out. I want to stay, but I don't know how many more threats I can live through. They take a toll. If he can't see my worth, and keeps wanting to throw our marriage away, why should I keep fighting for it? He has BPD/NPD, but I can still see more good in him, and have more faith in him and us than he ever has.

I want to surround myself with people with more positive thinking, and behaviors that aren't just so reactionary. I'll get myself in a good, positive thinking place, and his negativity just rains all over it. Not right away, but it's a steady drip.

Plus, he only has "moments" of accountability, or actually really working his DBT. I have OCD, and it's a forever type thing, and it's something I always have to work on, and not just let run rampant. I try to own my stuff, and work my stuff. Never for a moment am I like "oh, I don't have OCD today, or it's your fault I have it". Heck no! My OCD, and my anxiety are MINE, not his. I feel he should be the same way with working his stuff, but that gets projected onto me too, and I'm just tired.

I think he knows he just might have done it way too many times. He told me he's been left by one wife, so he knows it could happen. Well, if he feels that way, what's he doing? Trying to break up so I don't beat him to it? I never had any intentions of leaving, but I'm so sick of him trying to throw me/us away as if we don't matter.

I'm hoping my therapist can help me get a few thoughts more in order tomorrow. Right now I feel like a yo yo. Wanting to stay, but my mind saying "give him what he keeps asking for".

[Ceruleanblue]

After BPDh's divorce threats of last week, I'm just tired. Tired of his anger, tired of his threats, and tired of things being off/on chaotic despite my best efforts. You were all right, that any boundaries are met with threats, and my only real recourse is to walk away when he's verbally abusing me, but that makes him feel "you don't want to be with me". Lose/lose, except for at least I'm not listening to all the things he dislikes about me.

I don't want to leave, but for the first time, I'm seriously thinking about what that would look like. I've been looking at apartments, and I have loose plans in my head. I have therapy tomorrow, so maybe she can help me figure things out. I want to stay, but I don't know how many more threats I can live through. They take a toll. If he can't see my worth, and keeps wanting to throw our marriage away, why should I keep fighting for it? He has BPD/NPD, but I can still see more good in him, and have more faith in him and us than he ever has.

I want to surround myself with people with more positive thinking, and behaviors that aren't just so reactionary. I'll get myself in a good, positive thinking place, and his negativity just rains all over it. Not right away, but it's a steady drip.

Plus, he only has "moments" of accountability, or actually really working his DBT. I have OCD, and it's a forever type thing, and it's something I always have to work on, and not just let run rampant. I try to own my stuff, and work my stuff. Never for a moment am I like "oh, I don't have OCD today, or it's your fault I have it". Heck no! My OCD, and my anxiety are MINE, not his. I feel he should be the same way with working his stuff, but that gets projected onto me too, and I'm just tired.

I think he knows he just might have done it way too many times. He told me he's been left by one wife, so he knows it could happen. Well, if he feels that way, what's he doing? Trying to break up so I don't beat him to it? I never had any intentions of leaving, but I'm so sick of him trying to throw me/us away as if we don't matter.

I'm hoping my therapist can help me get a few thoughts more in order tomorrow. Right now I feel like a yo yo. Wanting to stay, but my mind saying "give him what he keeps asking for".

[formflier]

  but my mind saying "give him what he keeps asking for".

CB,

 

There is a "rawness" that I can detect.  I hate it for you.  Wish I could do more than offer a virtual hug.  Right now you are in some deep waters and not really sure where the lifeboat is,   Tough place to be.

You are among friends here.

Can you figure out how to take a couple days and get away.  Somehow we need to get those raw nerves soothed a bit.

You are considering some big changes and my hope and prayer for you is that you can consider those with a clear head and clear heart, NOT from a place of reactivity.

Please look at the quote I have put on here. 

I have no interest in your "giving him what he wants, ".  I do have interest in you making a healthy decision for you,

Please be deliberate about being kind to yourself.

 

FF

[Grey Kitty]

  Making plans for how you would move to an apartment will be a clarifying thought exercise for you. Whatever you decide to do, thinking about possibilities (not discussing them with your H until you decide to act) will be good for you.

... .my only real recourse is to walk away when he's verbally abusing me, but that makes him feel "you don't want to be with me". Lose/lose, except for at least I'm not listening to all the things he dislikes about me.

I've got a suggestion in this direction, a way to take a little of the sting away when you take a time out.

Leaving does trigger his fear of abandonment, as you noticed. You cannot really stop that from happening. But you can do something to reduce that, and that is being explicit when you leave that it isn't forever. Departures like this... .

"I'm going to take a walk around the block. I'll be back in 20 minutes"

"I'm going to the store for some stuff. I'll be back in an hour."

"I'm going away tonight. I'll be back after work tomorrow" (or tomorrow morning if it is a weekend)

Note that each of these statements has a very specific time when you are returning. Once you do this, do your best to honor that commitment, and come back when you say you will. (Unless you get in a car crash or something!) Note that you didn't promise to come back and be an emotional punching bag for abuse... .if you come back and abuse re-starts, leave again, immediately, and for longer this time. With a new statement of when you will be back.

If you are consistent, he will start to learn that you go away for a reason, and that you can be trusted to come back. It can take some of the sting away from it... .while still protecting yourself just as well.

[Ceruleanblue]

I can definitely try telling him what I'm doing, or where I'm going when I see I need to walk away from verbal abuse, or him starting to get angry. I think I have in the past sometimes, but not always. I just get to the point where I'm scared to say anything, lest he just blow up at me. I wouldn't leave the house without telling him, but I usually just get busy cleaning house, or putzing around, so he knows I'm still "around".

I definitely think he knows I'm always wanting to be able to come back, and have a conversation, but that's the part he hates. He's conflict avoidant at times, and even when he's calmed down somewhat, the instant we try to talk about it, he escalates again. We actually talked about just that tonight in MC, but I hold out very little hope he'll actually remember what she said to do: when BPDh knows he's calmed to the point he can be calm, then return to the topic, to find a solution. She said that is what partnership and marriage is about.

I'm still just tired of where we are at now. It came out in therapy that I walk away, not to stonewall(BPDh does that), but that I walk away so that things don't get worse, and to protect myself from verbal abuse: ie, it's actually a boundary. She pointed out though that because I do that, nothing ever really gets resolved, and that is so true.

How do you resolve things, find compromise, or "feel safe" as our MC puts it, if you are dealing with someone with a PD, and they always want to be right, and really don't care about your feelings and opinions?

Right now, BPDh is saying "he'll try harder", but when he gets mad, he still forgets to use any of his DBT skills. He admitted that tonight in MC. I also debunked some things he stated last session: that he mostly only gets angry if I mention his kids. Well, he's had three huge blow ups lately that had ZERO to do with his kids. He gets so angry over things that are so small, and even he acknowledges that fact.

MC also pointed out that by me just walking away, and letting BPDh have his way(over one of these blow ups), that it left no room for solving the real issue. I get that, but I'm done sticking around for his blow ups. I'd LOVE for him to address the blow up later, but we all know that is unlikely. She asked me how I felt after I'd walked away, because he got verbally abusive and angry, and I just let him have his way to avoid conflict. I told her I feel CONTROLLED, and she said that's a real issue. That I should have a partnership where I'm not afraid to speak my mind, and that BPDh needs to deal with his anger enough to be able to deal with me having a differing opinion.

This latest incident was over a dang $2.00 snow shovel at Goodwill. I wanted to buy it, he said "no", as we have two in the storage unit. I stated "I understand, but they are buried, and we never think to get them out". He blew up, so I walked away, and commenced my shopping. My daughter was with us, and she came up and asked me why he gets so angry over things that make no sense... .she's twenty and a psyche major. I refuse to fight over a shovel. Seriously. But I'm not shoveling his car out anymore using she spade type shovel for him either. Why he got so mad, I have no idea. We often buy things if we find them super cheap, just so we don't have to dig for our "lost" item in our storage unit.

I had no idea he'd get set off by wanting a shovel, and last night it was over me asking him to pause the movie. He's just getting worse and worse. I'm dealing pretty well. Much better then last year when he was like this.

I just wish I could modify ME and make things better.

[Grey Kitty]

A subtle point on your paradigm of leaving to avoid a verbally abusive conflict.

You leave to protect yourself from the verbal abuse, enforcing a boundary (as the couples therapist recognized)

If there is a CONFLICT, something where you and H disagree, which needs to be resolved, you would be willing to discuss ways to resolve the conflict with him later, correct?

You aren't willing to fight over a $2 snow shovel, so you don't bring it up again--it isn't important enough to resolve.

If something significant never gets resolved, it is (most likely) because he dysregulates and becomes abusive again the next time it comes up, having the same result.