How to tell the difference between enabling and being a supportive spouse

[vortex of confusion]

I was sharing my story with somebody in real life. I related something that happened early in our marriage and was told, "Sounds like you learned to enable early on."

That comment hit me like a ton of bricks. First off, I was only 23 or so when the incident happened. That was almost 17 years ago. The story was that when we were first married, I would wake up in the morning and go to the living room. As I was walking down the hall, I would look up and see my husband on the computer doing his thing (porn, etc.). A lot of the time, I would turn around and go back to bed because I didn't want to see that crap and I didn't want to fight about it. I would usually bring it up later and we would talk about it. Usually, it was dismissed as, "I didn't want to wake you up." Or, there were times that I didn't see a need to make a big deal about it as I think a lot of guys tend to look at porn. This is all ancient history and hasn't happened in a really, really long time as it was before we had any kids.

At the time, I didn't see it as an issue because it hadn't been established as a pervasive pattern. And, my life was pretty full and not having relations with my husband in the morning wasn't something that I was going to make a fuss over. The comment about me being enabling going back to the beginning made me angry and then it had me wondering how the heck a person can figure out the difference between enabling and being a supportive spouse.

I know that I have done a lot of things that a lot of people would consider enabling. I didn't see it as enabling. I saw it as doing what a committed and supportive spouse would do. I saw it as being a partner. In some ways, I feel like I was trying to live out a more Biblical version of marriage. Maybe I am in denial. I feel like I have tried to do everything "right" and live MY values. My values are being kind, being forgiving, being supportive, being understanding, and not sweating the small stuff.

IF somebody takes advantage of me because of my values, does that mean that I enabled them?

I am rambling and am not sure if I am making any sense. Would like some thoughts or input on this so I can clarify some things in my own mind.

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[ColdEthyl]

That's a great question, VoC. I've wondered this myself. For an example, my H does not work and I do. For me, this is not a problem because he does bring in disability, and I'd rather be working a full time job and not be home all of the time. But some people see this as enabling. He's on disability for a reason. He cannot hold a job, and he never will be able to.

[shatterd]

me again relateing the job issue ya   iwas mean as hell to her   that wood be us being normal of course   enabling them only if they lay around all day and do nothing   what i figured out tho  if they do the house hold thing clean cook blah blah blah  thats there job  responiabilty   my expeirence    was thos workd great there was happiness  yeah! howevr the impulseiveness of her and the inabilty to maintain normal stable life makes this imposable  want to be paid for cleaning ur own house or waching ur own kids  please   then the bordum gets to her  oops now our lil spending habit kiks back in  yup screwd again  and then i worry about is this the day i come home and my house is empty and there gone again   not saying evryones thing is the same  but i know how this is also   :'(

[vortex of confusion]

That's a great question, VoC. I've wondered this myself. For an example, my H does not work and I do. For me, this is not a problem because he does bring in disability, and I'd rather be working a full time job and not be home all of the time. But some people see this as enabling. He's on disability for a reason. He cannot hold a job, and he never will be able to.

The confusion or sticking point for me is that I am told to stop worrying about what my husband is or isn't doing. In the early years, that is what I did a lot of the time. I didn't make a big deal out of things because he was living his life and I was living mine. I set boundaries around porn when I got pregnant with my oldest daughter. I told him that I did NOT want that crap in my house. I was very serious about that and he knew that I checked the computers and that all hell would break loose if I found that stuff in my house. Sure, there were things that he did that irritated me but I didn't make a fuss out of it because I saw it as MY issue.

My values are to be helpful and kind. I try to perform random acts of kindness whenever possible even if it something small like holding the door open for others. One time, there was a little kid at the store ahead of me and he was short on tax. It was a couple of cents so I gave it to him. That kind of stuff feels good to me. I feel like the core of who I am is being questioned and is now being labeled as "enabling". It is a source of irritation for me.

[ColdEthyl]

That's a great question, VoC. I've wondered this myself. For an example, my H does not work and I do. For me, this is not a problem because he does bring in disability, and I'd rather be working a full time job and not be home all of the time. But some people see this as enabling. He's on disability for a reason. He cannot hold a job, and he never will be able to.

The confusion or sticking point for me is that I am told to stop worrying about what my husband is or isn't doing. In the early years, that is what I did a lot of the time. I didn't make a big deal out of things because he was living his life and I was living mine. I set boundaries around porn when I got pregnant with my oldest daughter. I told him that I did NOT want that crap in my house. I was very serious about that and he knew that I checked the computers and that all hell would break loose if I found that stuff in my house. Sure, there were things that he did that irritated me but I didn't make a fuss out of it because I saw it as MY issue.

My values are to be helpful and kind. I try to perform random acts of kindness whenever possible even if it something small like holding the door open for others. One time, there was a little kid at the store ahead of me and he was short on tax. It was a couple of cents so I gave it to him. That kind of stuff feels good to me. I feel like the core of who I am is being questioned and is now being labeled as "enabling". It is a source of irritation for me.

*nods* I don't see what you have done in this example as enabling. In fact, you made a boundary and stuck with it. As far as your previous example when you mentioned you didn't want to deal with it first thing in the morning, well... .perhaps the listener saw inaction as enabling. But, if you addressed the issue later on your own terms... .I can't see that as enabling.

I often get confused with what's enabling and what's helping. I am like you... .I like being helpful by nature, so often I do enjoy doing things for my family and loved ones.

[ColdEthyl]

me again relateing the job issue ya   iwas mean as hell to her   that wood be us being normal of course   enabling them only if they lay around all day and do nothing   what i figured out tho  if they do the house hold thing clean cook blah blah blah  thats there job  responiabilty   my expeirence    was thos workd great there was happiness  yeah! howevr the impulseiveness of her and the inabilty to maintain normal stable life makes this imposable  want to be paid for cleaning ur own house or waching ur own kids  please   then the bordum gets to her  oops now our lil spending habit kiks back in  yup screwd again  and then i worry about is this the day i come home and my house is empty and there gone again   not saying evryones thing is the same  but i know how this is also   :'(

I'm working on my husband doing 1 chore a week. If I ask any more than that, it won't happen. He doesn't actually do a whole lot at home.

[takingandsending]

Hi VOC.

I think the person judging you wasn't really helpful. But this part here is probably the part that contains some enabling.

A lot of the time, I would turn around and go back to bed because I didn't want to see that crap and I didn't want to fight about it. I would usually bring it up later and we would talk about it. Usually, it was dismissed as, "I didn't want to wake you up." Or, there were times that I didn't see a need to make a big deal about it as I think a lot of guys tend to look at porn.

You were going to do something (getting up out of bed), stopped what you were doing based on seeing your husband engaged in something that ran contrary to your core values. And when you voiced your values and they were dismissed, you normalized his behavior v. working through how it made you feel about you. That's the enabling.

And it's common. A lot of us do it. All relationships parent-child, spouses, colleagues require some level of interdependence. There is always some level of enabling and dependence occurring. It's when we allow it to become very out of balance that it becomes a problem. I am no exception to that. I still am doing it with my kids. I love them. I don't want them to hurt. I tend to rescue rather than allow them to experience the world of cause and effect. Being with my BPD wife has done what no other teaching experience could do - it gives me pause before I jump into rescue, makes me consider if I am doing it for them of for me. I still believe I am a good person. I will always err on the side of liking people v. not trusting. But, I need to be there for myself to, and I only have myself to blame if I am not.

[vortex of confusion]

I'm working on my husband doing 1 chore a week. If I ask any more than that, it won't happen. He doesn't actually do a whole lot at home.

You can't change him. You can only change yourself.

Trying to change somebody else is futile.

Allowing them to be themselves is enabling.

Hmmmm. . .

[vortex of confusion]

You were going to do something (getting up out of bed), stopped what you were doing based on seeing your husband engaged in something that ran contrary to your core values. And when you voiced your values and they were dismissed, you normalized his behavior v. working through how it made you feel about you. That's the enabling.

Making a conscious choice to NOT stick around is enabling? Making a conscious choice to give somebody the benefit of the doubt is enabling? I know how it made me feel about me. It made me feel rejected and worthless and unattractive to my husband. How it made me feel is about me not him. Why are my feelings HIS responsibility? My feelings are MY responsibility.

[ColdEthyl]

I'm working on my husband doing 1 chore a week. If I ask any more than that, it won't happen. He doesn't actually do a whole lot at home.

You can't change him. You can only change yourself.

Trying to change somebody else is futile.

Allowing them to be themselves is enabling.

Hmmmm. . .

I know it confuses me too. I haven't told or talked to him about wanting him to do more chores, rather I've been using the communication tools to get him going. Once we cross this hurdle, I'll try 2 a week. He's still changing himself. He' still doing it... .I'm not threatening him with anything to force him, and I not doing the chores for him.

[takingandsending]

VOC, I may not understand the story that well, and I can understand why my response has upset you. Can I ask how did you feel when you went back to bed? Were you taking care of yourself at that moment? If the answer is no, what might it have looked like if you were taking care of yourself at that moment?

You have said that his actions made you felt rejected, worthless and unattractive. Is it possible that you made his feelings (whatever was driving him to do what he was doing) your responsibility?

I am concerned that this is coming across as criticism - not my intent. I am recognizing things that I do, stuff that I take on that was never mine to own, to avoid being in conflict, to avoid having a boundary. It may be totally not the same in your case. There are a lot of small ways that I betray myself, what I know and believe in, to keep calm waters. Your story seemed similar to those behaviors in myself. And again, it becomes "enabling" when it becomes imbalanced and habitual.

[shatterd]

this were i feel  quilty  like its my fault   we set boundries  and lack of informing me about what was goin on  i beleive is what leads to some this leaving crap   i cant do it by myself  iam understanding of this condition  but im firm on  i cant keep helping someone that isnt willng to help them selfs 

[vortex of confusion]

VOC, I may not understand the story that well, and I can understand why my response has upset you. Can I ask how did you feel when you went back to bed? Were you taking care of yourself at that moment? If the answer is no, what might it have looked like if you were taking care of yourself at that moment?

Yes, I was taking care of myself. I did not want to fight and I did not want to see what he was looking at. I would have felt a lot worse if I had gone out to the living room and confronted him. I went back to bed, cried, and went back to sleep. I am NOT a morning person. I know this about myself. The best thing that I could have done is gone back to bed.

You have said that his actions made you felt rejected, worthless and unattractive. Is it possible that you made his feelings (whatever was driving him to do what he was doing) your responsibility?

How could I have made it my responsibility? It wasn't until much, much later in the marriage that I started feeling responsible for anything. And that was only after doing a lot of reading about how to be a better wife.

I am concerned that this is coming across as criticism - not my intent. I am recognizing things that I do, stuff that I take on that was never mine to own, to avoid being in conflict, to avoid having a boundary. It may be totally not the same in your case. There are a lot of small ways that I betray myself, what I know and believe in, to keep calm waters. Your story seemed similar to those behaviors in myself. And again, it becomes "enabling" when it becomes imbalanced and habitual.

He was looking at porn. His choice. I felt rejected. My feelings. I went back to bed. My choice. If I choose not engage in conflict, that is still my choice. That is still ME trying to live MY values. I had a boundary. My boundary is that I was not going to stand around and watch or be a part of his morning routine.

I sometimes feel like labeling certain behaviors as enabling is another way to place the blame on me.

[OffRoad]

If his looking at porn was an addiction, then you supported his addiction by not enacting a boundary that porn is not allowed in the house (as you did later when you had children). That is enabling.

If it was not an addiction, but simply something you didn't like, while you cannot change him, you can change yourself and what you will put up with.

If you were willing to let him look at porn whenever he wanted, that was your choice, no problem.

But if you had told him previously how much it bothered you and that you would like it if he did not do it when you were in the house, and you then ignored that he still did it while you were in the house (ignoring even for a little while is enabling), that could be considered enabling behavior. You have enabled him to disrespect you. It all depends on the situation. Possibly the way the story was told sounded like enabling to your friend.

For example, I ran into an instance where my H had gotten himself to a porn site on the kid's computer. By looking at the history, I could tell he was looking up Harry Potter, and ended up at this site(this was many years ago). His getting to the site was not the problem. The entry page was not offensive. However, he went INTO the site and all that garbage was in the temp files. (I mean, I found it by accident... .). I set a boundary for the kids and myself: he was NEVER allowed to access a porn site on the kids computer again or we were done. (This is a deal breaker for me-no porn around the kids). If he had done it again, and I hadn't followed through, that would have been enabling behavior on my part. (He was very remorseful and it never happened again)

[OffRoad]

this were i feel  quilty  like its my fault   we set boundries  and lack of informing me about what was goin on  i beleive is what leads to some this leaving crap   i cant do it by myself  iam understanding of this condition  but im firm on  i cant keep helping someone that isnt willng to help them selfs 

shatterd, do you have the ability to use punctuation on whatever you are posting on?  I can't quite tell where the sentences start and end, so I'm having a hard time sorting out some of what you are saying. If you don't, I'll do my best to figure it out.

TIA

[vortex of confusion]

If his looking at porn was an addiction, then you supported his addiction by not enacting a boundary that porn is not allowed in the house (as you did later when you had children). That is enabling.

How in the world was I supposed to know that it was an addiction?

I was making decisions based on the information that I had at the time.

But if you had told him previously how much it bothered you and that you would like it if he did not do it when you were in the house, and you then ignored that he still did it while you were in the house (ignoring even for a little while is enabling), that could be considered enabling behavior. You have enabled him to disrespect you. It all depends on the situation. Possibly the way the story was told sounded like enabling to your friend.

The funny thing is that I didn't really care about the porn. The porn itself wasn't the issue. For me, the  issue was that he chose porn over me. You could just as easily substitute a video game, books, or anything else into the equation. Two people trying to figure out how to live together and figure out what expectations are realistic and which ones are not does not equal enabling. I think there should be room for partners to be different. Different people have different needs within a relationship.

[shatterd]

yes sry, i will improve my grammer skills, for now i used spaces between points, some of this is just shared thoughts or venting

[OffRoad]

How in the world was I supposed to know that it was an addiction?

I was making decisions based on the information that I had at the time.

My supposition was if you knew it was an addiction. Of course you couldn't know if it was an addiction or not until it proved itself an addiction.

The funny thing is that I didn't really care about the porn. The porn itself wasn't the issue. For me, the  issue was that he chose porn over me. You could just as easily substitute a video game, books, or anything else into the equation. Two people trying to figure out how to live together and figure out what expectations are realistic and which ones are not does not equal enabling. I think there should be room for partners to be different. Different people have different needs within a relationship.

The enabling only occurs when there is a behavior that has been discussed as being detrimental, the behavior continues, and the person without the behavior ignores the problem, joins in, accepts the justifications for the behavior, avoids the problem, doesn't let the person with the behavior suffer the consequences of their actions, rescues them, controls them, tries to "fix" them, continues to bail them out and keeps giving them "one more chance" again and again.

If none of these things applies to anything you discussed about your relationship with your friend, then assume she misheard and move on.  If it does apply, then consider if you were an enabler or not. Take anything valid and use it to better yourself and throw the rest away.

[patientandclear]

You can't change him. You can only change yourself.

Trying to change somebody else is futile.

Allowing them to be themselves is enabling.

Hmmmm. . .

I haven't finished reading this thread but I hope someone can help answer this contradiction, because it confuses me greatly too, VOC.

[Turkish]

You can't change him. You can only change yourself.

Trying to change somebody else is futile.

Allowing them to be themselves is enabling.

Hmmmm. . .

I haven't finished reading this thread but I hope someone can help answer this contradiction, because it confuses me greatly too, VOC.

I'm a Leaver, so take this as you will, but my T said,."I sense a lot of your anger is expecting her to be someone she is not." I had to think about that, and I still do since I have to co parent with her for the rest of my life. Another thing he said, though he said she was foolish, was that she was an independent enitity, free to make her own choices.

He was telling me that she is who she is. Yes, I can't control that, no matter how much her actions may violate my values.

It's a tough place to be in if you're still in a r/s. How much is enabling, and how much is accepting the person for who they are?

[js friend]

You can't change him. You can only change yourself.

Trying to change somebody else is futile.

Allowing them to be themselves is enabling.

Hmmmm. . .

I haven't finished reading this thread but I hope someone can help answer this contradiction, because it confuses me greatly too, VOC.

Hi I normally post supporting the child board but stumbled across this thread. It is a bit of a contradiction what is quoted here. Radical Acceptance is allowing a person to be themselves whereas enabling is doing things for them that they can do for themselves.

I have radical Acceptance that my dd20 is ill and may never reach the milestones others of her age acquire in life. I have learnt to accept her the way she is warts n all without trying to change her. I have learnt to let go of these expectations and other expectations i might have had  and allow her to be herself. For example dds home is quite messy,but i have learnt to look past it as long as it isnt harmful to my gc. This was quite difficult for me at first as Iam quite a neat person, who likes order and structure and couldnt help at first cleaning while i was there, only to find later that she began to leave her dirty dishes and washing for me to do when i came around., Again I  thought I was doing some good but I was actually enabling and dd probably saw it as me being judgemental of the way she lived. So now when iam at dd i will offer to do little things and if she wants to clean i will help her. I  now have Radical Acceptance that it is dds life and if she chooses to life that way I have to respect that.

Enabling is doing things for them that they can do for themselves. For example when my dd was younger she would often stay out late past her curfew without permission and then ring us to ask for someone to pick her up which i always did as i wanted her home safe.It didnt matter how many times we spoke to her about it she still did it. Well it came to a point that she began relying on us to bring her home.When she couldnt get a ride home thats when she began to really think about how she was going to get home. as we were no longer enabling this behaviour. We were no longer going to support this behaviour... .so if she was going to go out past her curfew she really needed to think of another way to get home.



I Hope these little examples help. 

[an0ught]

Hi vortex of confusion,

If his looking at porn was an addiction, then you supported his addiction by not enacting a boundary that porn is not allowed in the house (as you did later when you had children). That is enabling.

How in the world was I supposed to know that it was an addiction?

I was making decisions based on the information that I had at the time.

You could not really know. Before diving deeper lets remember are talking about behavior in the context of BPD here and in that light excessive porn consumption is coping behaviors that go beyond sexual realm and is more related to general inner pain. A treatment of BPD would initially not focus on less damaging coping behavior - and from your description it was somewhat upsetting but not totally destructive to the relationship - and start at the true underlying causes.

He was looking at porn. His choice. I felt rejected. My feelings. I went back to bed. My choice. If I choose not engage in conflict, that is still my choice. That is still ME trying to live MY values. I had a boundary. My boundary is that I was not going to stand around and watch or be a part of his morning routine.

So you did not like it but felt it was in his domain. You communicated your views at times. You protected yourself from being impacted as well as you could through boundaries.

Are you asking how much more perfect you could have acted?

I sometimes feel like labeling certain behaviors as enabling is another way to place the blame on me.

Who is labeling and blaming you? T? He? You? Your inner critic?

[vortex of confusion]

The enabling only occurs when there is a behavior that has been discussed as being detrimental, the behavior continues, and the person without the behavior ignores the problem, joins in, accepts the justifications for the behavior, avoids the problem, doesn't let the person with the behavior suffer the consequences of their actions, rescues them, controls them, tries to "fix" them, continues to bail them out and keeps giving them "one more chance" again and again.

I am looking at the Lessons. Under Perspectives: The do's and don'ts in a BPD relationships https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62266.0

It says:

Realistic Expectations: A person with BPD is emotionally underdeveloped and does not have "adult" emotional skills - especially in times of stress.  If you are in this type of relationship it is important to have realistic expectations for what the relationship can be in terms of consistent respect, trust and support, honesty and accountability, and in terms of negotiation and fairness, or expectations of non-threatening behavior.  It is important to accept the relationship behavior for what it is - not hope the person will permanently return to the idealization phase, not accept the external excuses for the bad behavior, and not hope that changing your behavior to heal someone else.

Could having realistic expectations be accepting justifications for the behavior? All of the resources say that the pwBPD can't really control themselves or help themselves. Time and time again people are counseled to not expect any kind of changes from the pwBPD.

On that same page, it says:

Accept the Role of "Emotional Caretaker": According to Kraft Goin MD (University of Southern California), "borderlines need a person who is a constant, continuing, empathic force in their lives; someone who can listen and handle being the target of intense rage and idealization while concurrently defining limits and boundaries with firmness and candor".  To be in this type of relationship, you must accept the role as emotional caretaker - consistently staying above it.

It says in plain English that one must accept the role of Emotional Caretaker in order to be in a relationship with a pwBPD. I have been that emotional caretaker for years and didn't even realize it. I think that is why I have made it this far. I am being told to stop enabling and caretaking and being codependent yet the resources for staying in this kind of relationship clearly state that one of the requirements is to accept the role of emotional caretaker.

After that it says:

Protection: Difficult things will likely happen in a BP relationship and it is important that you try to protect everyone (you, the BPD, the children) - financially, emotionally, etc.  Be prepared for digressions when they occur -  they will. This could range from controlling the bank accounts, to educating the children, to having a suicide threat plan.  You can mitigate some of the damage.

I am a very good protector. I look at most of what I have done over the years as protecting. I have protected my husband in certain situations because NOT protecting him could have had bad consequences for me and the kids. In situations where his behavior or his screw ups have no impact on me or the kids, I tend to let it be. There have been a few instances where I probably did too much. I have a very logical mind and can see the potential consequences of stuff that he doesn't even think about. A lot of what I do is mitigate the damage.

Understand Why: There are a many reasons to be in BP relationship or to try.  It's a deeply personal decision.  Sometimes the reasons are unhealthy- such as BPD/NPD relationships, BPD/Co-dependent relationship, etc.   It's important to understand your own emotional health and what motivates you to "stay in" and build a life that "evolves around" and has to "continually compensate for" the acts of a destructive person. Many professionals enter therapy when they are treating BPD to stay grounded.  It is a good idea for you too.

My reason for staying is my kids. It is a choice that I have to remind myself of quite frequently in order to stay grounded. I find it difficult to make the distinction between the unhealthy reasons and the valid reasons.

[Crumbling]

It is important to accept the relationship behavior for what it is - not hope the person will permanently return to the idealization phase, not accept the external excuses for the bad behavior, and not hope that changing your behavior to heal someone else.

Could having realistic expectations be accepting justifications for the behavior?

Yes.  "When he feels X, he will do Y."  In my case, it's when my h feels afraid of being abandoned, he will push me away.  This is my H's reality.  It's who he is.  Period.

I don't accept his expression of this fear in certain ways (threatening divorce, screaming at me out of displaced anger, etc).  But I must accept that he will try these things, if there is no boundaries to keep the behaviours in check.

I can't stop him from pushing me away.  I can stop believing that he's pushing me away because of something I've said or done.

It's not really about justifying their actions... .more like learning to trust that you know what to expect from him and, maybe, why.

Does that make any sense?

-------

It says in plain English that one must accept the role of Emotional Caretaker in order to be in a relationship with a pwBPD.

Okay, so let's work on accepting that we must be in a quasi-co-dependant relationship in order to stay sane in the one we're in.  What does quasi-co-dependent mean?  It means when he needs it, we SET.  We steer him away from JADEing discussions.  When he dysregulates, we enforce our boundaries.  The only relationship he knows how to be in is a dysfunctional one.  BPD Reality.  Period.

It doesn't mean we accept the bad behaviours, it doesn't mean we need to live in an unhealthy emotional state.  It means we need to know and understand and accept the responsibilities of this marriage.  He can't figure things out alone, and that's where you (and I) come in.  Hence, the caretaker role.   

It isn't pretty.  It isn't fair.  It isn't easy. 

It just is.


c.

[Crumbling]

... .or how about this... .

When a person gets old, they need a caregiver, someone to guide them and help them through daily activities.  It doesn't make the relationship 'unhealthy' or the people in it.  It just is.  So too is our role in a BPD r/s.

I find it hard to figure out when I'm enabling and when I'm simply playing my role too.  But thinking about enabling as allowing/supporting him in destructive behaviours... .like not having safety boundaries around a situation that really hurts everyone because of his behaviours... .makes it somewhat easier.  I just stay away from those things.

-------

btw... .ever wonder why we need caregivers when we're alive and caretakers when we're dead?  One gives care to a body and one takes care of a body.  Isn't it fun when the English language actually works the way it should!   

[vortex of confusion]

Okay, so let's work on accepting that we must be in a quasi-co-dependant relationship in order to stay sane in the one we're in. 

That seems a bit like tip toeing around the truth, which is that in order to be in this sort of relationship, it is necessary to be co-dependent.

It doesn't mean we accept the bad behaviours, it doesn't mean we need to live in an unhealthy emotional state.  It means we need to know and understand and accept the responsibilities of this marriage.  He can't figure things out alone, and that's where you (and I) come in.  Hence, the caretaker role.   

It doesn't matter whether or not the bad behaviors are accepted. The bad behaviors are going to continue with or without boundaries, with or without discussions, and with or without acceptance on my part. It is what it is. I can accept that being in this relationship requires me to be in a quasi co dependent relationship where I am the caretaker or I can leave. To me, it feels like a bit of tiptoeing. You can't put a flower in a butthole and call it a vase.  

[getting_better]

I've thought quite a bit on this topic since I separated from my dBPDstbxw.  Perhaps my perspective is a bit different because she also fell into addiction to prescription painkillers which has led me to Al-Anon (support group for friends and families of addicts and alcoholics).  There's a lot of talk about enabling within those walls.

For me it seems to boil down to what you've hit on, Vortex. If I'm not being honest with myself and with her, then I'm enabling her.  If her drug usage or raging at me & the kids or not helping with household chores or excessive spending or expecting me to run the kids everywhere, etc. etc. etc. is troublesome to me and makes me feel upset I should be true to myself and communicate it.  

Staying silent when I am troubled is enabling her behavior.  The number one thing I wish I could change about my 23-year marriage is that I wish I'd been honest.  Because of her BPD the marriage may have ended much sooner with my honesty, but I would have been much more serene and peaceful in my life and experienced a whole lot less strife and contention.  

Again, just my perspective.  

[vortex of confusion]

For me it seems to boil down to what you've hit on, Vortex. If I'm not being honest with myself and with her, then I'm enabling her.  If her drug usage or raging at me & the kids or not helping with household chores or excessive spending or expecting me to run the kids everywhere, etc. etc. etc. is troublesome to me and makes me feel upset I should be true to myself and communicate it.

I am not trying to be difficult with this (maybe I am to a degree). If I keep quiet, it is enabling. If I communicate it and talk about it, it isn't enabling? I have almost 17 years worth of alternating between talking until I am blue in the face, keeping quiet, throwing fits, and acting BPD myself at times just to communicate what it is that is bugging me.

Staying silent when I am troubled is enabling her behavior.

Is it? Bringing something up and having it turn into a fight where you aren't going to be heard isn't any more productive than keeping quiet.

[123Phoebe]

Understand Why: There are a many reasons to be in BP relationship or to try.  It's a deeply personal decision.  Sometimes the reasons are unhealthy- such as BPD/NPD relationships, BPD/Co-dependent relationship, etc.   It's important to understand your own emotional health and what motivates you to "stay in" and build a life that "evolves around" and has to "continually compensate for" the acts of a destructive person. Many professionals enter therapy when they are treating BPD to stay grounded.  It is a good idea for you too.

My reason for staying is my kids. It is a choice that I have to remind myself of quite frequently in order to stay grounded. I find it difficult to make the distinction between the unhealthy reasons and the valid reasons.

Maybe figure out what "staying for your kids" really means.  What are the pros to staying for your kids, how are they benefiting from this arrangement?  Are there any cons to "staying for your kids"?  :)oes one outweigh the other?

Staying silent when I am troubled is enabling her behavior.

Is it? Bringing something up and having it turn into a fight where you aren't going to be heard isn't any more productive than keeping quiet.

You're right!  That's why there are communication tools to avoid just this sort of thing... .  Boundaries, timeouts, how to avoid circular arguments, SET, stop the bleeding, how to stop making things worse etc etc etc... .  Otherwise, it's codependent enabling behavior  Enabling the dysfunctional dynamic to continue.  Lived it with my ex   And tried it with my bf, only he made it really hard for me to stay the same

[vortex of confusion]

Maybe figure out what "staying for your kids" really means.  What are the pros to staying for your kids, how are they benefiting from this arrangement?  Are there any cons to "staying for your kids"?  :)oes one outweigh the other?

I have a hard time thinking about the cons of staying for my kids. The biggest con is that I know that I will struggle emotionally with staying. For me, the biggest pros have to do with the kids, especially since he has been working on and improving his relationship with the kids.

You're right!  That's why there are communication tools to avoid just this sort of thing... .  Boundaries, timeouts, how to avoid circular arguments, SET, stop the bleeding, how to stop making things worse etc etc etc... .  Otherwise, it's codependent enabling behavior  Lived it with my ex   And tried it with my bf, only he made it really hard for me to stay the same

This made me chuckle. Not sure why. I think it is because of how a lot of people are treated when reaching out for help. I feel like I have been labeled as a codependent enabler because of the things that happened before I got my hands on decent information. Believe me, I have been searching for years. I don't feel like I was sitting back and taking things. I was trying to find ways to make things better. It varied from fixing me, to fixing him, to thinking about leaving, to trying some super crazy stuff. For me, it has been a process. Once kids entered the picture, I became even more intent on ways to make things better.