I feel like I got a win. Nice feeling for once

[pandadoll]

A short time back I posted that my H's ex is trying to control our communication.  I had been NC with her.  My H is currently staying out of state working.  His ex and I now both live in the same area.  It is his time for spring break with their kids.  She agreed to let them go.  She did not want them to ride with me unless I start talking to her.  I am not a fan of this option.  Then she decided to meet H half way.  Dumb because I am going anyway.  Then she changed her mind and said I could take them only if I talked to her.  I am not comfortable with talking to her.  I trust her and her motives about as far as I can kick the building I'm in right now.  So not at all.  H and the children will at all times have open communication with her. H said that if she didn't allow them to go because of that it would be ok (not desirable) and it would be something she would have to answer to in court and to the kids.  When that came down to a real possiblity he kind of freaked out.  I understand that he just wants his kids.  So I did what any good wife would do and removed the block I have for her on the phone and initiated a conversation with her.  Ex feels bad that I "had" to cave to her wants in order for him to have the kids.  I am honestly sometimes sick at the thought of talking to her.  I understand that if the children are traveling with me that as a parent she would like to be able to communicate with me.  As a parent myself I relented for that reason alone.  I set my boundaries and think I've been sticking to them pretty well.  Here is how it went:

Me:I prefer to not have communication with you.  I am willing to allow an open line of communication by TEXT only in matters regarding the kids. I will not answer the phone if you call. I will be leaving Friday after school to go to Texas. If I am allowed to I will pick up SS14 and SD12 from school and take them with me.  That goes for SS17 if he is allowed or wants to go. It would be helpful if you drop their bags off at the school office.  That way they do not have to lug them around and we don't have to endure an uncomfortable exchange. If this is acceptable to you please let me know. If not then I would assume they are not allowed to go.

Her: Pandadoll, I am going to allow you to pick up my children (SS14 and SD12). SS17 has decided not to go. I prefer NOT to hav an open line of communication only via text. I prefer to be able to speak with my children's stepmother if I need to. I don't know why you have such ill thoughts and feelings for me but I am trying to do what is best for my children by having a good relationship with you. Since I already have a great and understanding relationship with (my) H, you should be an extension of that. I will meet you on Thursday to give you my children's luggage. Would your lunchtime be best?

Me:Texting is what I am willing to do and that is all. Thursday I will meet you at (specific location) at noon as I have a meeting shortly afer.

Her: Sorry, I just remembered, I have a hair appointmen at 11.  Noon will not work, my apologies.

Me: Noon is my lunch hour in which you requested.

Her: Well< i guess we will just have to figure out another time. Relax!  (side note the relax comment irritated me.

Me: Since you drive past the school anyway it would be easy for both of our schedules if you leave the bags at the school.  I cannot meet you after I get off work because I have things I am obligated to do tomorrow evening. I am trying to compromise with you.

Her: Compromise meand understanding how important a good relationship with you means to me and my kids. It probably would benefit H when it comes to us both as well. I will not leave luggage at my children's school.

Me: Then bring it to my work before your hair appointment.

Me: (after an hour with no response) Are you able to do that?

Her: I will try to make that happen. Thanks

Me: Thank you

Next day - her: Hey Pandadoll, sorry I haven't been up there yet. Had a crazy day so far trying to get ready for the ball I have to go to tonight. I'm headed to my appointment now and will head your way after.

Me: I have a meeting at 1245. I am not sure how long it will last. I'm guessing 230 will be the earliest it will be done.

Her: Ok that's fine my appointment will take a couple of hours and I have a few errands I can run until then.

Me. I will let you know when it is done

Me: I just got back to the office.

Her: Ok, my appointment is running later. I'll text you when I'm on my way

She finally showed.  I was totally surprised.  That was the fourth option of trying to get the bag drop off taken care of.  When she showed up I thanked her for letting the kids go with me and she responeded with "Well of course." Then she proceeded to tell me that she would like us to be friends and that she has nothing against me.  She feels our hostilities towards each other come from things H has said about us to the other.  She would like me to get to know her and make my own decision.  The whole time I just said "uh huh." I told her at the end that we could consider this a stepping stone and we don't know what the future holds.  I did not make promises to be friends or to not block her again if she got crazy.  The future is unknown. We shook hands and left.  I recorded the conversation as to protect any he said/she said.  I had a co-worker watch incase things got stupid.  She has told my H several times that she wanted to kick my rear.  H was also worried that she would try to do something crazy.  After she left she sent me this: "I have to tell you that every other time I had to see you I got a sick feeling in my stomach. I didn't get that this time and want to thank you for hearing me out. My hope is that we can get to know each other and possibly become friends. Thank you Pandadoll for letting the door open." I did not respond to that text because it was not regarding the children.

She called H afterwards and asked if he loved her! She wanted to know my thoughts and feelings and he of course did not tell her anything.  She said the day before when talking to him about this that she feels that he would always be the  man in her life that loved her forever.  She then said that she hoped by becoming friendly with me that would lead him back to her.  So all of her communication with me about that goes to a deaf ear.  I feel I did a good job sticking to the facts about the luggage and the kids.  I did not get roped into any conversation about how why I feel the way I do towards her. When she was finding reasons and excuses to not make an agreement or stick to it I never got flustered because I knew she would do those things.  If she had not been able to compromise and I never got the luggage I had contingency plans in place.  I would have bought them new clothes or ran by her house and let them get some.  I would not go in the house or driveway of course.  Either way it would have not been an issue. 

This morning H called me and said that she sent him a text at 1230 am.  It said "He beat me. I hope you are happy." H is concerned about what to do.  He feels that this my be a ploy to get a rise out of him.  He worries that if her new H will do something like that to her then he may do that to the children.  I share his concerns.  I advised him to call law enforcement and have them do a welfare check.  If she lied then she would have to explain why she sent such a message.  If it is the truth then it has been brought to the authorities.  He is going to wait until I pick up the kids to do that.  If she is lying and the police show up she will be embarassed and mad and may keep me from getting them. 

I know things could have probably been handled a little better but I feel that we did a good job.

[marbleloser]

Wow! I can clearly see the triangulation in all of this. You handled it well,imo.

[Thunderstruck]

I hate that fake "let's be nice to each other for the sake of the kids" nonsense, because they never actually mean it. It's just another manipulation, imo.

You did well with your handling of the situation and communication. And I'm glad the situation went smoothly with very little friction.

[DreamGirl]

What do you want your relationship to look like with her? Strictly business?

What is the boundary that you are setting?

Is this how you usually communicate boundaries in your relationships? Business or otherwise? Or is this specifically for her?

[pandadoll]

Dream Girl,

I would prefer to not talk to her.  I realize that I must on occasion.  If I don't have to then I prefer not too.  My boundaries with her conversations strictly about the children.  I do not care to nor will I discuss my relationship with my husband with her.  Her relationship with my husband or my relationship with her.  Too many times I have had the "slap" in the face for allowing any of that to happen.  I will not be friends with someone who behaves the way she does towards me.  If it were anyone else besides my step childrens' mother I would have long severed any type of relationship we have. 

Usually I do not communicate my boundaries with her.  I just act upon them.  In this circumstance I felt it was necessary to communicate that.  She is the type to blow the door right down if you open it just a little.  I am allowed my space and privacy.

I do not communicate my boundaries to others. As I said above I just act on them.  I am going to what I can for my own piece of mind.  I think I allowed her something that she wanted with as little disturbance to me.  So I think that she feels like she got a win as well.  I think for this time it worked out.

[krista8521]

Good job, I was feeling for her until you mentioned what she did after the pick up.

I would be smokin, keep strong boundaries and never give her a reaction.

Thats what I am learning to do with a BPD. 

[4ourkids]

Wow, very good job with the exchange!

The texts are classic. I could have written that same post. We've taken the approach that, even when my SO is out of town, he is the only one who communicates with his ex and only about the kids.

I've also been accused of not wanting to be her "friend". SO's response, by email, was that my status is as neither friend nor enemy, but as his wife. I don't think she knew what to do with that but it hasn't come up again.

I've wondered how we would handle the ultimatum that you were given about not being allowed access to the kids unless you talked with her. I think you handled it really well! Boundaries are so protective!

[DreamGirl]

Hi pandadoll,

I would prefer to not talk to her.  I realize that I must on occasion.  If I don't have to then I prefer not too.  My boundaries with her conversations strictly about the children.  I do not care to nor will I discuss my relationship with my husband with her.  Her relationship with my husband or my relationship with her.  Too many times I have had the "slap" in the face for allowing any of that to happen.  I will not be friends with someone who behaves the way she does towards me. If it were anyone else besides my step childrens' mother I would have long severed any type of relationship we have.

This is how I feel as well.

The pwBPD in my life and I have a very good relationship. I say relationship, not friendship, because I would not be close friends with her, not necessarily because of who she is but mostly because of who I am.

I've come to value myself very much and I just don't invest in friendships [anymore] when the other person doesn't want to share in valuing me as well. The mama of my stepkids just really struggles in personal relationships and that's OK. I won't struggle with her in that capacity because being in a friendship with her takes a lot of give and not a whole lot back and it's just not something I'm interested in.  

Not a reflection of her, just one of me.

I don't have to go outside of who I am in expressing that to her either. I still treat her with kindness and respect because I am a kind and respectful person.  

Usually I do not communicate my boundaries with her.  I just act upon them.  In this circumstance I felt it was necessary to communicate that.  She is the type to blow the door right down if you open it just a little.  I am allowed my space and privacy.

I think that you are doing a good job of keeping yourself protected from what a disordered soul can bring into the picture. I ask about your boundaries and what kind of relationship you want with her only because your expression/acting on your boundary setting is relatively aggressive - sometimes it needs to be. Sometimes it doesn't though, we can still express our boundaries with an "It works better for me when we x, y, z" rather then "I will only x, y, z and if you try to do a, b, c,  - I will respond with q, r, s."

Boundaries are about us and protecting our values.  

I, too, have a very strict boundary when it comes to communication about my stepchildren/children with the other parents in my life. It's more about content then anything but it's about protecting my value and implementing the boundaries in order to do so.

Value = I believe that communication about important issues regarding the kids should always stay between the biological parents.

Boundary = Other then with my husband, I don't partake in conversations where I am not the other half of the bio-parenting pair

i.e. I won't discuss important issues about my own children with their stepmom and universal with my value, I won't discuss important issues about my stepkids with their mama.

When Mama has tried to drag me into an issue, I express my value/boundary "Mama, I get what you're saying but you know I won't go there. You need to talk to the hubs about it."

And she usually responds with "I know, I know".

Me:I prefer to not have communication with you.  I am willing to allow an open line of communication by TEXT only in matters regarding the kids. I will not answer the phone if you call.

It's why I ask what boundary you are setting? What value are you protecting?

Her kindness was met with an aggressive stance on your part. (No judgement on my part, just an observation) My guess is that the hurt runs deep in your situation and you just aren't ready to place nice yet. I get that. I didn't talk to the pwBPD in my life for 8 months in order to be in a different place with her. My cracking the door back open started off with an apology on my part and lots of boundary setting when she barged right in.

We just have to be cautious when we are reacting/responding aggressively. It's why I ask what would your relationship look like if it was just the way you wanted it?

Would it be business-like but respectful?

Would it be texting back and forth about the drop offs/pickups in a friendly manner?

Or would it be where each of you has a day here and there where you feel like you are "winning"?

What is the best scenario for the kids?

~DreamGirl  

 

[pandadoll]

My intent was not to be hostile or aggressive.  I was simply in a self protective mode.  You are correct that the hurt runs deep.  It is nowhere near being healed.  I am taking that one day at a time.  As far as "her kindness" is concerned.  Due to my experiences with her in the past I do not see kindness.  I feel as she has alternative motives and that I cannot trust her.  I have been fooled before and therefore cannot let a guise of kindness allow me to be hurt again.  You are correct with the differences of values and boundaries.  I feel that I need to protect myself and those I care about from things.  Not all of those things are her.  I am currently going thru some times with my S13 wanting to go live with his dad and stepmom.  I have discussions with my ex, not his wife about this.  I do not want this to happen but somedays I feel like I really don't have many options.

I guess that is what the majority of the problem is with my H's ex.  She tends to take all options away.  We are left to concede to her wishes and desires at every turn.  I'm not trying to get a "win" so to speak.  I feel that we/I have been pushed, pulled, used and abused for so long.  She dangles what is important to us to get her way.  I feel that is a violation.  The things that she wants never has anything to do with the children but with just her wants, needs and desires.  I am not in an emotional state to give into her personal wants, needs, and desires.  If it were an issue that truely regarded the children I expect my H to handle it with her.  I do not get involved.  We do discuss things as we are a partnership but the ultimate decision on how he will handle it is up to  him.  I feel if I give into her and allow idle chit chat that there is someway I will end up feeling like I paid for that mistake.  I cannot see it as a good thing.  Her and I do not need to have idle chit chat.  I believe she has not honest desire in having a friendship with me.  If she did then she wouldn't behave the way she does.  This is a person who wrote a love note on my front door to a man I am married to.  She has no respect for me.  I try to stay un-involved.  I can relent to discussing details about picking up and dropping off of the children.  As you can see even when she from my original post that even when she gets her way (on the first request) it is not good enough and she has to change it.  I feel like she is just trying to see how far she can get me to bend. 

While my ex is not BPD we have had issues in the past.  Over time those have just sort of resolved themselves.  We do not make things difficult for each other.  We do not always agree but find a way to work it out.  I doubt that this will be ever be the case with her.  I am rambling. I'm going to stop now because I don't think that I am being clear and am not wanting to be misunderstood. 

[Thunderstruck]

Pandadoll, I totally understand how you feel and would act the same way. I think DreamGirl is in a more zen state than we are.  It probably takes lots of practice and patience, but we can build up to it some day.

I especially get the part about being hurt, it sucks when my SO gets naked pics texted from his uBPDx (I guess that's her somewhat histrionic way of sending love letters). It's hard to want to work with this type of a person, who has no respect for you and your relationship. And that's just one of the MANY ways she's tried to hurt me.

I would, in a non-disordered world, like to have a civil relationship with the X. The only time she called me and I actually answered (she was looking for SO because he didn't answer) her car was broken down. I offered her and D8 a ride to be nice and she raged at me for 20 minutes about how SO is cheating on me and blah blah. Then she texted me a bunch and I had to block her again (apparently Verizon blocks expire after 60 days). So I tried to open the door, be nice, and then said to myself 'Nope, gotta shut it again'.

[DreamGirl]

My intent was not to be hostile or aggressive.  I was simply in a self protective mode.  You are correct that the hurt runs deep.  It is nowhere near being healed.

Did I mention that I absolutely refused to talk to the pwBPD in my life for 8 months? I made sure that I was not present anywhere she was, including phone calls. I would not answer the phone when she called and I actually disconnected my cell phone (so I didn't have to set a boundary that said she wasn't allowed to have the number).  

I created distance because it was vital to my recovering from the hurt.

The therapy was to learn how to heal... .  and to see how I contributed to the dynamic that was destroying my marriage.

It's not Zen.

It's Radical Acceptance.

One of the best pieces of advice I got once from a very wise soul on these boards:

How can you expect them to respect you when they don't know how to respect themselves?

Chasing after married men isn't really a practice in self respect.  

I have war stories too about her not respecting me (or my marriage). As recent as a year ago. It doesn't affect me anymore because I know she doesn't have the skill set to ever respect my marriage. She just can't.

My husband respects my marriage, that's who I need to respect it. Not her. She's not in my marriage.

In the moments that she is sending "I wish we were still married" thoughts to my husband, I flick on my empathy and think "that must be hard to be so dependent on others that you are contacting your ex who is married to someone else just to feel better".

It doesn't have anything to do with me actually. She is just trying so hard to feel better about herself. It's one of her core wounds, this no sense of who she is as a person.

It's the best lesson we can teach our kids in this. Her behavior is her behavior. We can't change it. We can accept it and make sure that we live our lives according to our values and be who we want to be... .  even when someone hurts us. Or is disrespectful.