The Blaming List

[propunchingbag]

Last night I was presented with a list of ''Everything I do wrong", it was presented as a way to correct my behavior not as a list of why I should leave. It really paints me as a horrible person and made me feel like one. Is this something you have been presented with? It really took me by surprise to receive it and I don't know how to respond. I feel like a bad child, lousy partner and guilt tripped beyond comprehension. How am I supposed to get love out of this?

Preface:

We are married but living separately at the moment. No shared accounts. She has BPD and ADHD, makes $1100 per month, and is very into the concept of being completely supported even though I do not make enough money to pull it off. In fact I am behind in my taxes and its crushing me financially.

The list:

I am selfish about my things, like time, and money. (But I support her every month at $1000)

When I come over to her house I act like its "Our house" which it is not and then if she starts getting feisty I tell her I can leave which makes her feel abandoned and it is mean. (I just want to escape the emotional abuse).

I act like I do everything for her but I don't. She wants full support from me even though we are living apart.

I treat her like a drooling idiot. (I have no idea where this comes from)?

I make as much money as possible but do it for me not us. (It benefits everyone when I work hard)



The money I provide her is not enough and why would I make her suffer by not giving her more. (There is no more to be had).

I am not a caretaker of her. (see above)

She does not want to prove herself to me (I want her to try to increase her income, she works 30 hours a week).



I am critical of her disorganized house and excessive stuff. (This was from a fight about two years ago)



That I react to her like I am always in damage control mode. (I am, I don't ever know what she is going to react to next. Positive or negative, both can catch me off guard).

I only put energy into things I find important. Our relationship is obviously not important because we don't plan anything.

I criticize her for not making enough money to pay her bills. (I ask her to try to get to 40 hours or supplement her work to make a bit more so we can get out of debt).

We never plan things together. (Its hard to plan with her when things are going really rough).

After business trips I do not stop by immediately after I get back in town. Has told me this is important but I just never learn. (I fly very early and need some rest after long business trips, we are talking about an hour nap before I see her so I am not a zombie)



I don't acknowledge her when I am out of town. Out of sight and out of mind. Then after she gets mad I try to acknowledge her more and she thinks it is too late and I only do it because of damage control. (I am in meetings and working during the day and it is difficult to keep her top of mind, especially when she has been emotionally abusive about my going out of town in the first place).

I tell her that I want her to make her own life and support herself. Only then will she be good enough for me. (I just need her to help with the finances, if not then I need her to meal plan, budget her spending better, help reign in expenses).

I blame her for our situation. She cannot help her BPD issues. (I understand the problem but she is so all over the board I never know who I am talking to?)

I am always changing the rules on her. (I don't even know what she is talking about)

I married a girly girl and she needs to be treated like one. (My last wife was very athletic and she calls her a Dude not a woman. So she uses this one all the time to bring up my ex so she can abuse me for being with her in the first place and tell me that i don't know how to be with a "Real Woman".

I have not taken the time to find out what makes her happy and do it. Also I used to but forgot them all and don't care. So I just go through the motions without intention. (I do try but the constant accusations and emotional beatings really take the joy out of it for me).

I only show up when it is convenient. (I show up every day and make dinner and spend time with her but its never enough).

That getting my way is not love. (So getting her way is love?)

I act like she is inconsequential when we are on the phone and she gets upset. Why would I not want to deal with her and resolve it. (It takes hours on the phone to resolve her circular logic).

I created all of her unbalanced behavior because after we got married 4 years ago I wanted to still have friends and I was out riding my mountain bike to much. I abandoned her. (She has no friends, not any that are local, and she has lived her 10 years, not even one).

I don't do the things she likes to do. (3 years ago I did not want to do a Bikram yoga class and this has hung over my head forever).

She punishes herself to get to me. (Which I took to mean that she makes sacrifices for us to be together).


I guess I have two choices, stay or go. To be dished out this much animosity and anger under the guise of love is a big bomb to drop on my head. I know she wants to be with me, I have been in damage control mode for years with her. I have been doing so many things right to help us out as a couple. This list feels really out of line.

Does anyone have advice?





 

[krista8521]

She sounds off the chart materialistic, does she have any hobbies that does not require major money?

And without attacking you, do you think maybe even inadvertently you could be giving her those messages?

That bringing up something from 2 years ago for some reason must have been very hurtful for her to bring it up now, not saying you hurt her on purpose but its obviously striking a nerve with her.

Maybe go through the list and sort out which ones you think are her insecurities and ones maybe you may have given the wrong notion about.

Then address them to her in a way like "why did you feel like I did this or that to you?" really listen and see if something can be done to change how she perceives things.

[ADecadeLost]

I don't know that I have any advice, but I can certainly relate to your list.  My BPD wife has never physically presented me with a written out list, but I've heard comments similar to the majority.  Most prevalent on my wife's list currently are the contradictory "If you loved me you would make more money for me" and "if you loved me you'd just quit your job and just move, because I hate this place" complaints.  The "friends" debate, not doing things she likes, and not planning things together also come up with some frequency.

I do my best to show support when she begins listing off these concerns, but it is often a struggle seeing how skewed her view of me is at times. 

[sad but wiser]

Do phone messages and texts count?  Then yes, my list is very, very similar.  Oddly enough, I am a woman and my uBPDx is a man, but he wants to be supported and taken care of like a child.  I gave up years ago trying to force him out the door to work or encourage him out the door to work.  He seems to feel like the universe needs to balance out his lousy childhood by giving him a free ride the rest of his life.  Since he has pushed away almost everyone else in his life, guess who gets to be the "universal good things dispensary?"  Good luck getting her to come to a conclusion in any conversation, no matter how long it is.  If you want to keep the relationship and not lose your mind and sense of yourself, you will have to have both of your feet firmly planted in reality.  This is not ever going to be a normal, two-way partnership.  She lacks the capability.  I'm truly sorry to say it.

[hithere]

Do you want to stay with her? It sounds like she is making a list of things you have to do to win her back... .  unfortunately whatever you manage to accomplish from that list will soon be replaced by more things you need to do.

It is things like this that make living with a person with BPD next to impossible, you just can't please them and because so much of their issues only exist in their head, how can you fix that?

The only advice I can give you is to get therapy and stop doing the BPD dance with her.

Do you have kids?  If not then go NC and let her work out her crazy entitlement issues.

[crazylife]

First off, how terrible. Sounds like you are a great guy and really stepping up for her, despite her dysregulation. Not and easy task. Have you friend and DBT skills or SET?

Next, and I think someone more knowledgeable might critique this, I don't want to lead you wrong...

But how about asking her to answer in writing, email, (hard copy) to answer each of those items  so you can see what make her happy. I know some things you may not want to do or be able to do, but you could see where her head is and it would give you some information to help you cope and possibly even her out , at least for a while. (Every good day is not a bad one... .  my latest mantra)

In the mean time consider the source is someone with a serious mental illness and don't beat yourself up.

[smiley gladhands]

if you dont have kids... .  RUN!

If i didnt have kids with mine, i wouldve been gone months ago. Trust me - it only gets much, much worse.

[WillyD]

That list is priceless (and I don't mean to make light of the seriousness of enduring emotional abuse such as you obviously have).

Like one of the folks above said, it is clear that you are a very nice, loyal, conscientious person who really cares about someone who is next to impossible to get along with.

As someone in practically the same situation, I would say that the best thing for you to do is to prepare yourself for the eventuality of the r/s ending... .  likely multiple times as you really care for her. But prepare yourself emotionally, financially and in terms of possibly cutting off all communication and start now. It will take some time to get there so just realize that. Therapy can really help if you're struggling.

One thing I can almost guarantee is that unless she really takes a committed approach to her own therapy and self-improvement, you will remain in an infinite loop where that list never ends but just mutates here and there.

Good luck.

[propunchingbag]

Thank you for all your replies.

I had a good friend tell me that if I am paying her to be with me, putting up with her problems, and letting her abuse me than I have a prostitute and not a wife. Ouch!

I do have a step daughter that is 11 years old. She is amazing, beautiful and fun. I will miss her more than I would ever miss my wife. However, last night my wife said that she would not stay in the relationship if I kept treating her like the topics on the list. That I was at strike one already and that no matter how her daughter felt about me as a dad that she would leave me. I guess I need to take the same stance.

I am so tired... .  

[propunchingbag]

Thank you and yes it is quite a list. I even left off a few things. We have broken up more than a dozen times already, so why am I still here? I don't feel strong enough to get out due to the lack of self esteem I feel. Damn emotional abuse!

That list is priceless (and I don't mean to make light of the seriousness of enduring emotional abuse such as you obviously have).

Like one of the folks above said, it is clear that you are a very nice, loyal, conscientious person who really cares about someone who is next to impossible to get along with.

As someone in practically the same situation, I would say that the best thing for you to do is to prepare yourself for the eventuality of the r/s ending... .  likely multiple times as you really care for her. But prepare yourself emotionally, financially and in terms of possibly cutting off all communication and start now. It will take some time to get there so just realize that. Therapy can really help if you're struggling.

One thing I can almost guarantee is that unless she really takes a committed approach to her own therapy and self-improvement, you will remain in an infinite loop where that list never ends but just mutates here and there.

Good luck.

[WillyD]

It would probably be very good for you to go NC for at least a couple of months. During that time see a T who has treated a BPD patient at some point in their career so they understand what you're going through.

Also, reacquaint with friends and family you have neglected due to the needs of your SO and get back into hobbies/activities you love or would like to try. Be aware you will miss her terribly at times but journal, or write on these boards, or talk with friends during those difficult moments.

In 2 months your outlook on the r/s will have changed dramatically and you will have a much clearer view of the r/s, and both of your roles in it.

You might want to study BPD communication techniques too if you know you will resume contact eventually. They help a lot.

[WillyD]

... .  the main reason for the NC suggestion, is to give yourself a chance to step back, calm down, drop the stress levels, etc... .  basically to clear your head.

If you're like me you may be depressed and sad during part of this time but trust me, it is well worth it. When/if you go back you will see things very differently.

[propunchingbag]

I guess the real question I need to ask is "what do I have to lose"? If I go NC then she is gone, if I stop assisting with finances she is gone. Dealing with her is a win for her and a lose for me. But what am I losing?

I am super stressed out all the time. Sad because I hate to lose a woman that I am so attracted to. But drowning in emotional abuse.

I think you are right I need to step back so I can see what is there, or not there. Now to build up strength for the confrontation that will follow.

Why do I feel so weak? I am not this way with anyone else!

[Clearmind]

I see your points in blue propunchingbag - often we feel the need to justify and explain to our BPD spouses how their accusations and blame just aren't so. Fruitless effort on our part.

Blame is common - if we don't x,y,z then we must not love them.

You are right the list is out of line. Are you seeing a therapist?

Stop accusations and blaming

[propunchingbag]

Thank you I will try to use that tactic when some of these things come up.

It is very hard to not justify myself. I guess I am so tired of losing the argument, or being talked into a corner by her its overwhelming. So I try to justify my point and it has no effect on her at all.

[propunchingbag]

I read through the page about "stop the accusations" and I have actually tried several of these already. If I am firm in tone and tell her to stop she will not, that is when I tell her that she is crossing a boundary, she keeps going, and finally I try to remove myself by leaving, she blocks the doorway. If I can get out the door I have had her do the following:

Hang onto the car, block the car, get in the car and steal the keys, follow me in her car. Its just insane!

[real lady]

I had a good friend tell me that if I am paying her to be with me, putting up with her problems, and letting her abuse me than I have a prostitute and not a wife. Ouch.

A little more of an "ouch" with that would be that a YOU WOULD NOT PAY a prostitute to verbally abuse you; you would leave without giving her payment and wouldn't care if she didn't provide "the services". 

I do have a step daughter that is 11 years old. She is amazing, beautiful and fun. I will miss her more than I would ever miss my wife.

Kids of BPD parent(s) can have it really hard, staying in touch with her and giving her "respite" from BPD mom may be the best and only thing that you can do for her... .  

However, last night my wife said that she would not stay in the relationship if I kept treating her like the topics on the list.

WELL, she made it clear then. Any "yielding" to her would be to GIVE IN to her manipulation, coersion and THREATS. Let her "have her peace" without you, you and I know that she DOESN'T have peace, that is a "given" with a pwBPD. It is NOT our fault that they don't have peace. It is OUR fault if WE don't have peace. 

That I was at strike one already and that no matter how her daughter felt about me as a dad that she would leave me. I guess I need to take the same stance. I am so tired... .  

She is NOT thinking of her daughter at all. That is sad for your stepdaughter and you. It sounds like your BPDw will "use anything she can" to "get her way" including her child. I would take notes and see if you could at least get visitation, and often.

My uBPDso has ONLY ONE THING on his list of "things that I do" and it is "the way I talk"... .  when we converse, I "interrupt" him and of course, in BPD fashion of twisting things, that really means that I am disrespectful, telling him that he is BAD and STUPID and that any seeming contradiction from me, means that I am "trying to start a fight".

I understand your fatigue. I stopped being SO tired when I radically accepted my uBPDso as being a man whom I have loved very much who is mentally and emotionally ill.

It sounds to me that she is "pressing you up against the wall"... .  if you stay, she will continue to press. If you walk away, she will chase you but you will be free... .  good luck to you... .  

If I were in your shoes, I would LEAVE, take my money and NOT PAY HER ANOTHER DIME, move monies and find another place to live while filing for divorce. Since you are "not a caretaker of her" and "haven't done anything for her" then surely she won't miss it.

[propunchingbag]

I did see a grief counselor after my Mom passed away lat year. We talked a lot about my Mom but we also delved deep into my BPD relationship. Her advice was that my wife will never change and that if I can't take it I need to get out. Not a very rosy picture and with the loss of my Mom it has been hard to make this additional change and experience more loss in my life. So basically I guess I am going through the motions and trying to make it work. But things like this letter and the affirmation from the members of this board really make me believe that I may be in over my head and need a change.

[real lady]

I did see a grief counselor after my Mom passed away last year. We talked a lot about my Mom but we also delved deep into my BPD relationship. Her advice was that my wife will never change and that if I can't take it I need to get out.

MY mom passed away Sept 2011 and then my dad passed Dec. 2012, all while dealing with uBPDso. I UNDERSTAND. Taking care of yourself is of UTMOST IMPORTANCE> I am so sorry for your loss. I still ache for my mom, she was my best friend. Dad was abusive to her but his passing made her passing "really come home" to me (more real)... .  Again, my condolences for your loss and what you are going through. I understand.  

[Clearmind]

I read through the page about "stop the accusations" and I have actually tried several of these already. If I am firm in tone and tell her to stop she will not, that is when I tell her that she is crossing a boundary, she keeps going, and finally I try to remove myself by leaving, she blocks the doorway. If I can get out the door I have had her do the following:

Hang onto the car, block the car, get in the car and steal the keys, follow me in her car. Its just insane!

Maybe not acting quick enough PPB! We need to act right in the moment - don't wait - don't justify, explain or try to talk to her about it.

[sad but wiser]

Clearmind - you said it, it is insane.  If I wanted to end a "conversation" before he was through going around in circles, I was "trying to escape."  Frankly, it felt like brainwashing and emotional rape.  It went on for hours, against my will, without respite, night after night.  If I said one single word other than "yes" at the appropriate times, I was interrupting or bringing up a new subject. 

He was also very skilled at polling.  When he did ask for a response, it was an either/or question.  There was no room for another response or take on the subject.  ":)o I go find a job and crash the family finances when the cars stop working, or do I stay home and tune up the car?"  "You tell me, do I yell and cuss at the kids to get their attention, or do I ensure that they don't graduate from high school by not forcing them to study?" 

Has anyone else here had a BPD poll?  My experience was that it got worse, not better.

[laelle]

I'm pretty much just a pathetic person who fails at living.  He on the other hand has done miraculous things.

/shrugs   

[propunchingbag]

Clearmind - you said it, it is insane.  If I wanted to end a "conversation" before he was through going around in circles, I was "trying to escape."  Frankly, it felt like brainwashing and emotional rape.  It went on for hours, against my will, without respite, night after night.  If I said one single word other than "yes" at the appropriate times, I was interrupting or bringing up a new subject. 

My experience was that it got worse, not better.

I have been a victim of this so many times I hate to think I would ever let it happen again. The circular arguments, the emotional abuse if I did not agree or say that they were right. It is brainwashing and emotional rape. It has gotten worse while I hope it will get better. I think that is the underlying problem, it is not going to get better and I just keep hoping she will change.

[Clearmind]

I have been a victim of this so many times I hate to think I would ever let it happen again. The circular arguments, the emotional abuse if I did not agree or say that they were right. It is brainwashing and emotional rape. It has gotten worse while I hope it will get better. I think that is the underlying problem, it is not going to get better and I just keep hoping she will change.

We cannot change them however we can make things better. PPG, are you wanting to work on this?

We each bring our own dynamic to the r/s and how we do things could also contribute.

How to stop circular arguments

[propunchingbag]

Last night she went off on me again. This time I "of course" was wrong. She took a break long enough for me to pull my step daughter aside and ask her if it was OK for me to leave. Her response was a question; For now, or forever? I told her for now and she said its OK. God this is so crushing. To think she gets it enough to know I am going to go someday and never return. I could not get myself to leave after that. My wife finally calmed down and then I went home.

[propunchingbag]

No I think I need to leave. It is becoming such a damaging force on my life I am burning out hard. I am for better or worse trying to get strong enough to go.

[Clearmind]

It is certainly your decision. I'm posting this link here for you to read over if that is the avenue you are considering - if you do plan on leaving I can suggest you at best, plan it. Protecting your finances are important.

Leaving a Partner with Borderline Personality Disorder

[sad but wiser]

Propunch - 20 years and it only got worse.  Your poor little stepdaughter!  I feel for her.  However, the first thing a first responder learns is not to become another victim.  After awhile with a BPD, you lose yourself.  Not a good scenario.  Clearmind's article is an excellent choice.  I say this because those are exactly the steps I took, without knowing it, to extract myself from my situation.  Right now he is NC with me, and I like that just fine. 

[marbleloser]

wow... wow... .  WOW! I only say this because this is what I lived 20 years with.When you finally draw the line,you'll be amazed at how quickly she'll attach to someone else to "care for her",but don't think she isn't going to use the courts to try and make you continue paying for what she feels she's entitled to.

Read "Splitting" before you make a move.Thank goodness you don't have children together.Be sure to protect yourself financially,as you know that that is what she values most.

[propunchingbag]

wow... wow... .  WOW! I only say this because this is what I lived 20 years with.When you finally draw the line,you'll be amazed at how quickly she'll attach to someone else to "care for her",but don't think she isn't going to use the courts to try and make you continue paying for what she feels she's entitled to.

Read "Splitting" before you make a move.Thank goodness you don't have children together.Be sure to protect yourself financially,as you know that that is what she values most.

Luckily everything is already separated. In Oregon we have not been married long enough to qualify her for spousal support. Although she's only working 30 hours a week she will be going 40 hours a week in April. So I agreed to support her at $500 a month for the next year. I really do not want to crush her financially. In reality I want to make sure that my step daughter does not have to deal with her excessive stress levels during the next year.