I don't know what I'm dealing with

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi all!

I've been on here a few years ago. Pretty almost 95% sure my ex was a BPD. I had a sniff of heaven but as we all know, also hell. I told myself how I do want someone like her but not to the point of unmanageable insanity. Insecurities after all is within all of us.

Long winded but bare with me. I've dated this girl (lets call her A) for over a year. In the early dating stage "third month" I find that she was "sleeping" with someone. No penetration she says, just cuddling sleep over... So this hurt me but she argued that we still weren't together and that we didn't draw lines and thought it would be fine. ok... .So I guess we never said we'd be monogomous beforehand and she had the idea of being monogomous but also open to experiences. I responded to that by saying how we never know what the future brings and I'm open to anything as long as there is honesty and care for each other. Pretty straight forward no? I remember telling her when we talked about us in the first month (and she was on a high from her love for me) that my rule is that we care for each others feelings because to me that is the most precious thing. She cried that day and said thats the most beautiful thing she's ever heard.

Fast forward and we have difficulties/differences. At the forefront is communication. I am no perfect man and have my insecurities. One of them is feeling neglected in public when my gf would fixate on a guy, not introduce me, and just talk endlessly one on one without including me. So me expressing such feelings of discomfort in a rational and thoughtful way instigates an attack on me. Saying things such as:

"Its NOT a competition"

"YOU have the problems"

"You CANT blame ME!"

"I'm a GOOD person"

Oh geez... .I had to be so soft and gentle in expressing my feelings without pointing fingers. After all I do acknowledge these are my failings and insecurities of mine. Any way, I get 0 empathy or understanding. It is extremely difficult if not impossible for her to just say she understands and hold my hand with compassion. That would probably be enough for me. The communication was awful in that way and I knew it. However, everything else has been great. She's loving and giving and not jealous like my previous ex. However this invalidation of feelings and bad communication just built up until one day (on my birthday) I caught her texting a guy flirtatious texts. I ask if she's sleeping with him and she says no. Lying through her teeth and over a period of a month while I did everything I could to love her and be a sweetheart (because I knew our relationship was in trouble) she lied about not sleeping with him as she continuously saw him and had sex with him.

I was devastated after finding out the whole truth. Few months passed and she wants us to be together. So in my head she's on a trial period until she can prove that I can trust her but she would still ask and do strange things. Such as going on a retreat where this person who she cheated on me with was going. He texts her for a "ride" supposedly and she asked me what I thought... .what the heck? Is she crazy? How does she think I'd react? Lovingly? Lol! This is hilariously absurd right guys? Then she comes back from this retreat being all so sweet and thanking me for being understanding and trusting and that she would do everything to help us be together. Few days later and she asks me if she can go for a drink with this guy she met on this retreat. Who I find out has no clue about my existence. Who texts her subtle flirty texts. "jumping into the void together". What kind of ___e is that?

So I say am not comfortable with her meeting this guy and how its unfair for her to even ask me. That she should know better than to do that especially in the context of what happened. She cheated on me in the exact way where she goes on a retreat, exchanges numbers with someone, says theyre just friends then sleeps with them.

So I woke up at 3 am realizing Im being dicked around and ran away. 2 months later Im still longing for her. I end up contacting her. No apologies from her of course. No remorse. Just calling me a misogynist and other things behind my back to people. God knows what else she said about me. I found myself in a rebound relationship with someone for a few months. She was okay but I didn't see a future. It was tough finding a connection such as the one I had with her so I returned to her. For answers... for whatever excuse. I obviously wanted her in my life in some way. She wanted me too. So we agree to seek help.

I am now seeing her but not sleeping with her. I can't do it when she's a cheater. I have no trust in her. She believes we're together and I tell her how I don't feel like we are.

Guys... .she doesn't seem borderline... but I don't know what kind of person has no regard to someone's feelings and would think its okay to cheat and lie. Then saying I made her do it (of course its not her fault) and that I am a controlling nut. Her description of me is nothing close to being true.

I find myself wondering what she is. She seems loving and child like but she also seems delusional in areas as she hides from the truth. She doesn't believe in objectivity of absolute truths, once she says she doesn't believe in logic, other times she believes videos of people who become possessed with aliens and talk as "Bob from planet G54". Her childlike curiosity and fascination with the world and emotional capacity is what brings us together. Though I am open minded I'm much more science based than she is and I'm very passionate about things that I do. We're both witty and laugh a lot together. We have a lot going for us.

But what is up with her? Closest thing I could read on is that she is an NPD.

Guys, what am I dealing with and is there hope for us? Especially when all trust is lost?

[nylonsquid]

Hi all!

I've been on here a few years ago. Pretty almost 95% sure my ex was a BPD. I had a sniff of heaven but as we all know, also hell. I told myself how I do want someone like her but not to the point of unmanageable insanity. Insecurities after all is within all of us.

Long winded but bare with me. I've dated this girl (lets call her A) for over a year. In the early dating stage "third month" I find that she was "sleeping" with someone. No penetration she says, just cuddling sleep over... So this hurt me but she argued that we still weren't together and that we didn't draw lines and thought it would be fine. ok... .So I guess we never said we'd be monogomous beforehand and she had the idea of being monogomous but also open to experiences. I responded to that by saying how we never know what the future brings and I'm open to anything as long as there is honesty and care for each other. Pretty straight forward no? I remember telling her when we talked about us in the first month (and she was on a high from her love for me) that my rule is that we care for each others feelings because to me that is the most precious thing. She cried that day and said thats the most beautiful thing she's ever heard.

Fast forward and we have difficulties/differences. At the forefront is communication. I am no perfect man and have my insecurities. One of them is feeling neglected in public when my gf would fixate on a guy, not introduce me, and just talk endlessly one on one without including me. So me expressing such feelings of discomfort in a rational and thoughtful way instigates an attack on me. Saying things such as:

"Its NOT a competition"

"YOU have the problems"

"You CANT blame ME!"

"I'm a GOOD person"

Oh geez... .I had to be so soft and gentle in expressing my feelings without pointing fingers. After all I do acknowledge these are my failings and insecurities of mine. Any way, I get 0 empathy or understanding. It is extremely difficult if not impossible for her to just say she understands and hold my hand with compassion. That would probably be enough for me. The communication was awful in that way and I knew it. However, everything else has been great. She's loving and giving and not jealous like my previous ex. However this invalidation of feelings and bad communication just built up until one day (on my birthday) I caught her texting a guy flirtatious texts. I ask if she's sleeping with him and she says no. Lying through her teeth and over a period of a month while I did everything I could to love her and be a sweetheart (because I knew our relationship was in trouble) she lied about not sleeping with him as she continuously saw him and had sex with him.

I was devastated after finding out the whole truth. Few months passed and she wants us to be together. So in my head she's on a trial period until she can prove that I can trust her but she would still ask and do strange things. Such as going on a retreat where this person who she cheated on me with was going. He texts her for a "ride" supposedly and she asked me what I thought... .what the heck? Is she crazy? How does she think I'd react? Lovingly? Lol! This is hilariously absurd right guys? Then she comes back from this retreat being all so sweet and thanking me for being understanding and trusting and that she would do everything to help us be together. Few days later and she asks me if she can go for a drink with this guy she met on this retreat. Who I find out has no clue about my existence. Who texts her subtle flirty texts. "jumping into the void together". What kind of ___e is that?

So I say am not comfortable with her meeting this guy and how its unfair for her to even ask me. That she should know better than to do that especially in the context of what happened. She cheated on me in the exact way where she goes on a retreat, exchanges numbers with someone, says theyre just friends then sleeps with them.

So I woke up at 3 am realizing Im being dicked around and ran away. 2 months later Im still longing for her. I end up contacting her. No apologies from her of course. No remorse. Just calling me a misogynist and other things behind my back to people. God knows what else she said about me. I found myself in a rebound relationship with someone for a few months. She was okay but I didn't see a future. It was tough finding a connection such as the one I had with her so I returned to her. For answers... for whatever excuse. I obviously wanted her in my life in some way. She wanted me too. So we agree to seek help.

I am now seeing her but not sleeping with her. I can't do it when she's a cheater. I have no trust in her. She believes we're together and I tell her how I don't feel like we are.

Guys... .she doesn't seem borderline... but I don't know what kind of person has no regard to someone's feelings and would think its okay to cheat and lie. Then saying I made her do it (of course its not her fault) and that I am a controlling nut. Her description of me is nothing close to being true.

I find myself wondering what she is. She seems loving and child like but she also seems delusional in areas as she hides from the truth. She doesn't believe in objectivity of absolute truths, once she says she doesn't believe in logic, other times she believes videos of people who become possessed with aliens and talk as "Bob from planet G54". Her childlike curiosity and fascination with the world and emotional capacity is what brings us together. Though I am open minded I'm much more science based than she is and I'm very passionate about things that I do. We're both witty and laugh a lot together. We have a lot going for us.

But what is up with her? Closest thing I could read on is that she is an NPD.

Guys, what am I dealing with and is there hope for us? Especially when all trust is lost?

[C.Stein]

I can understand the trust issue.  I lost my trust in my ex as well and she did nothing to repair it.  Without trust you don't really have anything.  Trust extends far deeper than trusting them to behave with integrity.  You have to be able to trust someone emotionally otherwise you will never have a truly intimate relationship and you will always find yourself on the outside looking in (emotionally speaking).

The reality you are faced with right now is can the two of you rebuild the lost trust?  This is not something that you can do alone nor will it just happen.  She will need to do the bulk of the work to rebuild your trust and you will have to be open and receptive to being trusting of her again.  How do you see this happening?

[Aussie0zborn]

Does it really matter what she is? You ask that question as if knowing the answer will solve your problems.  Your problems, as I read them are :

1. You allowed her to disrespect you. You go out together and she talks to a guy while totally ignoring you? First thing you do is ask (in front of the guy), "who's the guy?"  Embarrass her once, make the guy feel uncomfortable, take over the discussion with the guy, suggest you meet up with him for a beer sometime, get HIS number, tell him it was great to meet him  and walk her away and it will likely not happen again. If it does, rinse and repeat. I never embarrassed my ex while she did this type of thing but this is how I would handle it today if this happened to me.

2. You let her screw around without consequences.

Assert yourself, demand respect or back off and look at why you would allow yourself to be disrespected by someone who is cruel, inconsiderate and disrespectful. I would suggest that when you have the answer to this question, you will be on track to eliminate this problem from your life. Good luck.

[SamwizeGamgee]

When I read stories such as this, in which one person loves and longs for someone - with psychotic / borderline / abusive / disrespectful behavior, I  can't hold back my gut reaction of wanting to run away.  I know the heart wants what the heart wants, and you can't always control who you love, but, to be a whole and healthy person you have to do things to yourself that are whole and healthy.  That would include choosing good people to be around. 

It sounds to me like you have been, and are being used to fill some need.  Perhaps you want what's going on too, in order to fulfill some need you have.  But, it sounds unhealthy.  I suspect she's lying - about a lot. 

I believe that immature love is emotional, and based on feelings.  That is hard to control and hard to recognize when it's harmful.  Mature love is based on mutual actions, commitment, and purpose.  I suspect mature love is not a component of your relationship.  Perhaps it would be beneficial to reflect on you and your needs, and what's good for you, as you decide what to do next.  There ARE good, healthy, beneficial people out there - and we all are worthy of good relationships.

[Lucky Jim]

Well said, Samwize.  Looking back on my marriage to a pwBPD, I ask myself the same question: why did I marry someone with:

with psychotic / borderline / abusive / disrespectful behavior,

.  You're right that a healthy person would have run away, but I didn't, due to my own codependency issues, my naivete and my susceptibility to manipulation.  Plus, I had never heard of BPD and had no experience with a person suffering from a PD.  Who knew?  Your points are well taken, in my view.

LuckyJim

[nylonsquid]

Thanks for the compassion and understanding everyone.

I know how to ask myself these questions such as you pointed out:

- Why do I do this to myself?

- What is the need that I have to be with her?

- Why do I put up with the disrespect?

- Am I co-dependant?

I have some answers. Because the love she gives is "all in". But she cannot handle me expressing my feelings and becomes defensive. She is highly sensitive and if I'm loving her then all is well. If I show any sign of frustration then she takes it as criticism and goes defensive and believes I don't love her. I know, kind of naive/immature.

Another is I see her trying hard. She's now been sticking to me for 3 months with no intimacy, going to therapy, not seeing anyone but me, focused on us, allowing me to do my own thing (date others if I wished) and she's sticking to me.

I also am staying because I've frankly tried to convince myself that I can be with others and I have. I've had small relationships that don't add or enrich my life. They were... bland... Me and this girl laugh and joke and have great chemsitry together and so many similar interests. I called off those other relationships because I was just kidding myself telling myself this is better than what I had because its "good".

I believe I do have a spiritual connection with her. And yes, SamwizeGamgee:

"I believe that immature love is emotional, and based on feelings.  That is hard to control and hard to recognize when it's harmful.  Mature love is based on mutual actions, commitment, and purpose.  "

I believe this 100%. I don't feel she's been giving me mature love. Though me being doubtful and frustrated makes her doubt us and scares her. She definitely is lacking in something and I believe she knows it. Looking for love when she can't get it from me. But she has tried, and so have I, and we were both not satisfied or happy with others.

I don't know what the next step is but I want to share this continued story.

She invited me out with friends to an after hours and do some MDMA this last weekend. It was my first truly spiritual experience. Before then I have been an open atheist. I just have not seen any proof of divinity. I'm also a huge science nerd. Though this experience has made my heart open so wide that I felt "the light". I'm laughing at myself for saying this right now :D  I never talk like this. But my heart opened up beyond the material world and I had so much compassion and empathy that I told her how she ran away because she was scared. And that I forgave her. And that I love her "light"/her "spirit". And I do. That night I saw everyone's spirit. A little white light in all of us. Just many can't see it because their hearts aren't as open. And these little lights will return to one big light "the source".

Ok guys, are you rolling your eyes now? :D  Basically I had what seemginly is a life changing experience. She was extremely happy that I turned to her after so many months. Though I've opened up to her, reality (material world has kicked in, and I'm trying to make sense of it all. I do know I love her and I believe I trust her and I've tested her for so long. Is it time to just dive in and go full force? I was thinking of laying down my boundaries firmly before doing that.

Thank you so much guys for the warm and non judgemental replies!   

[C.Stein]

I would caution you to check the color of your glasses before you jump in with both feet.  

The rose colored glasses will prevent you from seeing clearly.  What you need is complete awareness and clarity here before you go all in.  As special as some moments are, they are only small moments in spacetime.  Significance is realized when many, many of these good small moments combine for a larger persistent event (eg. a healthy relationship).  The problem for relationships with a pwBPD is the special/good moments become insignificant within the bad/destructive moments.  There is no persistence, no constancy of good moments.

I feel it is best for anyone that has landed on this board to take a step back and objectively observe the relationship and your partner.  If you can do this then you may see a path you can walk with them that will keep the personal/emotional costs to you relatively low and create a persistent and reliable pattern of good moments that will outweigh the bad.  

[Lucky Jim]

The problem for relationships with a pwBPD is the special/good moments become insignificant within the bad/destructive moments.  There is no persistence, no constancy of good moments.

Agree w/that, C. Stein.  Over time, the drama and abuse outweighs the special/good moments, which seem a lot scarcer and rare.  LJ

[SamwizeGamgee]

I term my wife's good moments as the spoonful of sugar that helps the poison go down.  Not quite Mary Poppins.