I was a bit passive-aggressive, but it worked

[Rockylove]

So... .  Friday was such a bad day at work for me that I just wanted to come home and have some peace.  Unfortunately the "guys" were in their happy party mode so I took a shower and went into the bedroom, closed the door and started to read.  They weren't being particularly loud (just loud enough that I could hear every word) but the sound of their voices was pounding in my head and I was getting more and more agitated.  I was in tears when my fiance came in the room to see me.  He was very sweet... .  he understood that I'd had a really bad day and had nowhere to unwind without noise.  I told him that I was going to my sister's to spend the night and he wasn't happy about it, but was still loving enough.  

Since he was saying that I was holding up the progress of the renovation, I made sure by Thursday evening to get the bathroom to a point where they could get the shower and toilet functioning with little effort.  :)o you think that happened while I was at work Friday?  Rhetorical question~~of course they didn't!  :)id they do any of the work in the kitchen that could be done?  Nope!  

The guy finishing the drywall is awesome.  He gets up early and gets to work.  The bathroom drywall is complete and the kitchen is 90%.  So what are the other knuckleheads doing?  Playing on the computer, playing poker, drinking beer, etc... .  my fiance just doesn't want to tell them what to do.  I've seen many situations where there are too many chiefs and not enough indians, (no insult meant here) but seriously... .  no body wants to take charge here so nothing gets done!  

I returned home at noon on Saturday and would you guess what they were doing?  NOTHING!  My fiance's son went back to bed.  The drywall guy was napping while his work dried (he'd been up working early) I told my fiance that the kitchen cabinets needed to be set in place and the counter top needed to be cut (Saturday) because we are expecting bad weather through Tuesday and that will hold everything up.  I then went about my business and didn't bother talking to anyone unless they asked me a question.  I haven't spoken 10 words to my fiance's son in the last week~~I just have nothing to say to him that won't get me into trouble with my man.

I didn't offer to cook any dinner~~he ran down to the corner and got us all fast food (yeah... .  his son woke up in time to get fed, but did absolutely nothing else).  I put my headphones on and sat quietly at my computer until 10pm when I kissed my fiance and went to bed.  To my amazement... .  they sat and watched movies in the living room and were quiet!  

I realize that being passive-aggressive isn't necessarily how I want to handle all situations, but I really had it in my mind that I have been so very uncomfortable in my home (mostly due to his son) that I felt it necessary to turn the tables.  I felt it necessary to induce a bit of discomfort for my son-in-law (to be) and my fiance because if I say anything about the situation, I'm being a bi*tch and I'm tired of hearing it.  I had to make a point without words this time... .  and it worked.    

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[laelle]

Hey Rocky    Its good to hear that you got some respect around the house.  Had em walking on egg shells eh?

You are doing a phenomenal job at handling all the stress of a job, a renovation, a nightly party, and a BPD bf.  Wow, im impressed. 

Its good that your bf caught the signal of your displeasure and cared!  Ordering dinner and keeping it quiet downstairs.

My hats off to you.     

[sad but wiser]

  Actually, that quiet approach was probably the best thing you could have done.  Bravo!  You didn't fuss, you didn't scream, you just didn't work either.  I used this approach regarding a dishwasher that sat in my living room for several weeks.  Not one dish was washed after the first two weeks.  Guess what?  It finally went in.

 I think men understand the, "I'm withdrawing from the situation" approach better than nagging or fussing.  There is a certain logic to, "You aren't doing your work, so I won't do mine either."

[Rockylove]

I think men understand the, "I'm withdrawing from the situation" approach better than nagging or fussing.  There is a certain logic to, "You aren't doing your work, so I won't do mine either."

Indeed, SBW!  If I say something more than once, I'm nagging.  If I don't say it again, he's forgotten and I should have reminded him!   

I called him on my way home from work Friday to see if he needed any supplies and he told me of the 3 light fixtures that he'd put up.  Like that was a huge accomplishment!     But I told him that it was very exciting and I was happy that it was done (good job 3 year old)!

laelle... .  I'm always encouraged and grateful for your posts    and yes... .  seems they were walking on eggshells because I'd left crying just the night before and it was really fresh in their minds.  I really don't like being manipulative like that, but I've felt that it was time to let them know how I have been feeling.

With that said... .  I'm going to continue to be polite and distant because that seems to be the only way to maintain my sanity.

[yeeter]

Im not sure it was 'passive aggressive' Rocky - you could have just as easily said it was simply letting them deal with the consequences of their own behavior.  A good thing.

One of the codependent behaviors we have is to be doing something, with the expectation that they will do something in return.  In this case it sounds like you are doing your part... .  xyz... .  expecting them to do a certain part, but then when they dont it is causing you grief.

This time though, you just left it alone.  If you want to bring this out of the passive aggressive mode - just make your next contributions depending on where they are at.  Something like "My next part is xyz which I will start on after such and such part is done"  (where such and such is their part.  "I will need X days to finish it"

It might not happen for a while - not your problem, you are doing your part.  Then also, be sure that it doesnt become a sudden crisis, by making sure everyone knows it will only fit into your schedule to the degree that it does (you are not going to drop everything when the time comes to work on it)

The project is his to own.  It sounds like you still get upset over the lack of progress or when/how things are done.  Try to let go and let him own the consequences of what does or doesnt happen.  (its not that men understand the withdrawing approach, its that men and women (or two people gender agnostic) may have a different feeling or sense of urgency about a given project, which makes sense - no two people will prioritize everything the exact same way).

Your sanity is important, and if some distance and detachment keeps it intact, this is a good thing!

Your doing great with the adjustments, and even got some rest!   

[Rockylove]

Thanks, Yeeter.  I've been getting more impatient by the day.  Mostly because I was the only one going outside the house to my job then coming home and working more while they did practically nothing and then complained that I was holding them up!

I think it's going to be better now though.  My fiance's son has gone home.  Things are much more relaxed when he's gone.  I'm not certain if he's coming back later in the week, but I'm hoping not.  We'll get this done without him and probably more quickly and efficiently.  I understand my fiance not wanting to boss his son around or step on his toes, but he's a 35 year old drunken slug and it does bother me that he came here under the pretext of helping his dad.  There was only 2 days that I can recall that he worked more than 2 hours.  The reality is that his dad was supplying endless beer, cigarettes and pot for him.  Those things alone cost several thousand dollars over the last 6 weeks and we've been buying and preparing all the food as well.  His friend who is here helping has been cleaning up after him (the son) and doing his laundry!  I'm astounded! 

What's really curious is that when the son isn't here, my fiance works and he doesn't stay up getting drunk all night and doesn't sleep away half the day.  It's almost as though he does it out of solidarity so his son doesn't look like the only slug or something.  This morning he got up by 9am, we went to the grocery store and to pick up some paint rollers, were home by 10:30, the bathroom was completely painted by 1pm, he had a quick lunch and got right on the plumbing task and right now he's on his way to Lowe's to pick up the last of the plumbing parts he needs to get the job done.  Go figure.

   

[yeeter]

Another thought.  Maybe when his son is here he doesn't want to spend the time 'working'.  Instead he wants to spend time with his son doing something fun.  (course there are more healthy types of fun, but that's up to them to define).  Even if he visited under the guise of 'helping', it might be loosely defined and the real goal is just to get to spend time together?

[Rockylove]

Another thought.  Maybe when his son is here he doesn't want to spend the time 'working'.  Instead he wants to spend time with his son doing something fun.  (course there are more healthy types of fun, but that's up to them to define).  Even if he visited under the guise of 'helping', it might be loosely defined and the real goal is just to get to spend time together?

I think that's a stretch.  They can and do spend time together.  His son was at our house doing as little as possible and mooching~~period.  He quit his job back in November and has done nothing to try to find another one since.  He lives in the "family" home which my fiance owns.  He doesn't pay for anything except his living expenses (electric, water, car insurance, beer, cigarettes, food)  His savings is running out and he came here to mooch for 6 weeks.  My fiance harbors tremendous guilt about his son (long story short) and is an enabler.  He knew his son was leaving yesterday and bought him another case of beer and carton of cigarettes... . "just in case" and then filled his tank with gas when he was getting ready to leave.  

Oddly enough, the raging that my fiance did while his son was here was directed at me, but it was all about the things that his son was doing!  I was the easy target.  He said that I was just like all the others and just wanted his money and that I can't take care of myself.  There was much more, but you get the picture.  It's all very sad and very annoying.  I need to let it go... . I'm just glad that his son has gone home and I hope he doesn't return to "help" any more.  He can come visit another time when he can't stay so long.

[sad but wiser]

Rockylove - that looks like mirroring to me.  When he is with his son, he mirrors that behavior.  When he is with you, he mirrors your behavior.  Guess which one is more fun? 

      That being said, my ex used to tell me all of the things that our kids were doing "wrong" as if it were my fault or things I could control, like their thinking processes. (Actually, they are very good kids.)  He needed desperately to be in control and have his world stay stable.  Unfortunately for him, children grow older and form their own opinions.  Is this the sort of thing you were talking about?

[Rockylove]

Rockylove - that looks like mirroring to me.  When he is with his son, he mirrors that behavior.  When he is with you, he mirrors your behavior.  Guess which one is more fun? 

sbw... . that's a very good possibility.  He does get his chameleon on often enough.  I've seen him in action, but it's usually a change in his speech.  He "dumbs it down" a lot when he's around certain people.  I joked about it and said he was getting his redneck on and he said that "you have to fit in with the locals so they accept you."  I don't subscribe to that theory, but hey... . that's me. 

As far as which one is more fun~~I'll let his hangovers answer that question!     I love doing things and being productive.  I've never asked him to be like me and usually he doesn't try. 

That being said, my ex used to tell me all of the things that our kids were doing "wrong" as if it were my fault or things I could control, like their thinking processes. (Actually, they are very good kids.)  He needed desperately to be in control and have his world stay stable.  Unfortunately for him, children grow older and form their own opinions.  Is this the sort of thing you were talking about?

I'm sorry that your ex did that to you, sbw.  I hope you don't have to endure that any more. 

That's not what I was referring to in this instance though.  My fiance knows that his son is a loud, lazy, obnoxious drunk (he even said it again last night) but he enables him by allowing him to live in the family home (in another city) practically free and allowing him to stay here for 6 weeks, doing very little actual work, mooching off of us and generally being a thorn in my side!  Seriously... . my fiance spent about $2,000 on weed alone (to his own shocked admission) in the past 6 weeks.  That doesn't include a carton of cigarettes every week~another $420, an 18 pack of beer DAILY $630 (and that was just for his son~~he bought beer and cigarettes for our friend too, but not in such large quantities) plus food which a lot of it was take out or oven ready because the kitchen was dismantled much of the time which is outrageously expensive.   I never mentioned ANYTHING about this to him and during one of his rages, he accused ME of using him for his money.  Mind you, I'd been paying for a lot of the food too.  His son became a liability in this venture instead of an asset to the project.  My fiance as much as said so last night, but he still felt compelled to allow his son to stay here mooching and made excuses for him as well. 

On the upside... . when we were talking last night, I told my fiance that his son had plenty to do on the house he is living in (and ultimately will inherit if he lives long enough) and doesn't need to be up here working on ours.  His response was "yeah... . I was thinking we should tell him that when we're done here, we'll go to his house for a 2 month party!"     I had to laugh at that because he knows there is no way in hell it's going to happen in my lifetime!  I won't even spend the night at his son's place because it's disgusting!  I say that it's the "upside" because my fiance really does understand that his son's motives weren't genuine, he wasn't all that helpful and cost him more than it would have if we'd hired someone.  Just him admitting this was a huge relief to me because I'd been raged at so many times in the last 6 weeks about me being the one abusing his generosity and me not doing what I said I would do and me being the one holding the progress of the project up.  At least in his lucid moment he admitted that it was his son~~not me.

[yeeter]

Hi Rocky,

It sounds like you had some quality discussions with your fiance after his son left.  So in a strange way, the entire affair was a good thing because it set you up for these discussions.  (hows that for a positive spin?)

Just him admitting this was a huge relief to me because I'd been raged at so many times in the last 6 weeks about me being the one abusing his generosity and me not doing what I said I would do and me being the one holding the progress of the project up.  At least in his lucid moment he admitted that it was his son~~not me.

This is so much of what we look for in the relationship, and what we seldom get.  I can imagine how good it felt for your own emotions to be validated, by your fiance implying that it wasnt You, but it was his son.  

Its rare for this to happen though.  And so much tension and resentment and ill feelings can build up if we are waiting on it.  

YOU know it wasnt you.  Is there a way to get to a place where, knowing this yourself is enough, and you dont need it validated from your partner?  Meaning its great if it happens, but we arent going to sit around and wait for it, or even worse we are not going to press for it (because it might not be possible to get).  But whether it comes or not, we are still grounded ourselves and feel good and are moving forward with our life.

[Rockylove]

It sounds like you had some quality discussions with your fiance after his son left.  So in a strange way, the entire affair was a good thing because it set you up for these discussions.  (hows that for a positive spin?)

I love your positive spin, yeeter!     Sad that it has to be the scenario, but yeah... . putting it in perspective, it's a positive thing indeed!

This is so much of what we look for in the relationship, and what we seldom get.  I can imagine how good it felt for your own emotions to be validated, by your fiance implying that it wasnt You, but it was his son. 

Its rare for this to happen though.  And so much tension and resentment and ill feelings can build up if we are waiting on it. 

YOU know it wasnt you.  Is there a way to get to a place where, knowing this yourself is enough, and you dont need it validated from your partner?  Meaning its great if it happens, but we arent going to sit around and wait for it, or even worse we are not going to press for it (because it might not be possible to get).  But whether it comes or not, we are still grounded ourselves and feel good and are moving forward with our life.

Yes and no.  I'm not so sure I will get to the point where I'm that enlightened    but I'm working on it!  I knew in my heart that I wasn't the issue and I really wasn't ever expecting him to say that it was his son... . so it was really nice to hear him say it.

[yeeter]

I knew in my heart that I wasn't the issue

The key.

[waverider]

Is this type of behavior mainly around his son?

Is the son the issue?

Does he have some sort of guilty issues with his son, and is over compensating by spoiling him and trying to make the son feel more important than you?

[Rockylove]

Is this type of behavior mainly around his son?

Is the son the issue?

Does he have some sort of guilty issues with his son, and is over compensating by spoiling him and trying to make the son feel more important than you?

yes, yes and yes, waverider!  There is tremendous guilt when it comes to his son.   I've gotten parts of the story but with much discontinuity.  When my fiance and is 1st wife divorced, life was not pleasant for the kids and she remarried a man who made life more unpleasant.  My fiance has so much regret over the whole thing~~that much he has expressed. 

I was raised with guilt... . it is something that I've been working through for many years and I still don't have it licked, but I've gotten to a point of letting go of much of it.  I know my fiance hasn't and I see it eating him up most of the time.  He'll say all the "right things" to me so intellectually I know he understands that his son is manipulating him, but falls deeply into co-dependency regardless. 

His son decided to abandon the renovation project and return to his home, but has said that he was coming back this weekend "for the birthday thing" (my fiance's b-day is Apr 2)  I told my fiance that I was not dismissing his birthday, but we were in no position to host a party in the midst of this renovation.  I've not decided absolutely, but I'm leaning toward spending the weekend with my son and his family.  I could use a little grand baby time and all the hugs and giggles that come with it.   

[waverider]

I felt guilty about exposing my kids to my BPD RS and as a result started over compensating, resulting in further invalidating my partner which obviously just made it worse and the divisions wider.

For a pwBPD being in the middle of those sorts of feelings the actions are bound to result in extreme splitting. Son=good, partner=bad,. Compromise being impossible. Leaving, as you do, and removing yourself from the triangle is the best solution.

Being dismissive of you is possibly his way of validating his son, and as a resullt teaching him bad behavioral patterns at the same time.

[Rockylove]

For a pwBPD being in the middle of those sorts of feelings the actions are bound to result in extreme splitting. Son=good, partner=bad,. Compromise being impossible. 

We talked a bit about this last night.  I told him that he called me names I couldn't believe would ever come out of his mouth.  He said it was because he was stressed.  I said I know he was stressed and it was a very bad time for him.  I said that a tiny bit of what he was saying [during the raging] may have been true, but most of what he was saying gave me the feeling he was talking to or about someone else.  He acknowledged that~~he said "I know.  I was really stressed and I know ':)hit_' is loud and obnoxious and parties too much and if hadn't left [the first time when he blamed me] we would have been done by now and ready to clean up and paint."  We didn't get too deep into the conversation because we were interrupted (our friend is still here helping us and he came into the living room where we were talking) yet it felt good to let him know that his anger was misdirected and for him to acknowledge that. 

Being dismissive of you is possibly his way of validating his son, and as a resullt teaching him bad behavioral patterns at the same time.

I believe my fiance was trying to validate his son... . he knows how he is and often says that he worries about him but says there's nothing he can do about it.  He kept saying that even though he was up drinking all night and slept half the day, he would get up and roll right into work mode~~such an achievement!  Good job!  Praise and accolades for putting in 2 hours of work a day!  Indeed, he taught his son bad behavioral patterns.

His son is 35 years old and to my knowledge has had 1 relationship [turns out she was a crack head] which lasted all of about 6 months.  He told me once that he wants someone intelligent, beautiful, articulate and classy (among other things) that accepts him just as he is.  Hmmm.  Just how many women do I know who fit that description want to live with a filthy, drunken sloth?  He said a while back that he's really happy that his dad found someone who will put up with his ___.  Me?  Maybe I shattered that illusion during the last 6 weeks, because I certainly won't put up with ALL of his ___!

[sad but wiser]

Rockylove - good for you.  It sounds as if you are handling yourself very, very well.  Could you and your husband get some counseling?  I think you could use the support and he sounds like he might be able to accept some well-structured therapy to increase his self-awareness and perhaps develop beyond the BPD.

[Rockylove]

Rockylove - good for you.  It sounds as if you are handling yourself very, very well.  Could you and your husband get some counseling?  I think you could use the support and he sounds like he might be able to accept some well-structured therapy to increase his self-awareness and perhaps develop beyond the BPD.

I'm not sure it's an option... . at least not at the moment.  I'm still in the discovery phase and I think that I'm finding out how his crazy head works.  It's not all that difficult~~just frustrating at times.  I think he's aware enough to actually do something about his issues... . in time.

[sad but wiser]

That's probably a one-in-a-thousand!  Most people with BPD mirror and project, so they can't actually do the work.  Very encouraging.

[Rockylove]

That's probably a one-in-a-thousand!  Most people with BPD mirror and project, so they can't actually do the work.  Very encouraging.

He certainly does enough projecting!  I'm dealing with that issue right now and I'm finding it extremely difficult to validate his feelings without the subsequent "but" following.  There are moments though, when he is very aware of his behavior and knows that it's due to stress and when we are both stressed he becomes incredibly dysregulated (which he is right now).  I'm not walking on eggshells, but I'm careful in choosing when to approach certain subjects as I know that when he's in a fragile state he will rage at the drop of a hat.  A bit exhausting, but a good exercise in humility and patience for me

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hang in there Rockylove! Projecting is   for sure!

I've read through your latest posts and I'm impressed by the way you are handling yourself and all the chaos. I'm glad you got some acknowledgement from him, we nons don't tend to get that very often. Sending you a   back

[Rockylove]

Thank you, Scarlet... . but don't get me wrong.  I'm angry and frustrated.  I know that this is going to pass and things will be back to our crazy brand of "normal" before too long.  Things have already settled down a bunch since his son left.  Last night he came up to celebrate my fiance's b-day and since I already knew he was coming, I planned to babysit the grand kids over night.  I don't particularly like feeling as though I can't stay in my own home while his son visits, but I'm just not going to tolerate the lack of consideration, the drunkenness and the rages.  I don't see that not happening until my bf gets off the dysregulation train.  As I said, things have gotten much better and he's recognizing just how dysfunctional he's been.  I do have hope... . but I'm not fool enough to think it can't or won't happen again.  Next time I hope I'm better prepared and my anger will be less intense.  At least I can say I'm not engaging in ridiculous arguments that escalate~~he just does it all on his own without my participation.  Things get worse before they get better.