Guilt

[Verbena]

I just joined this site today and posted an introduction earlier.  Actually, I posted two of them because I thought the first one didn't go through.  One has more detail than the other.  I'd like to discuss an issue but don't know if I need to go back and explain everything or if my introductory posts can be read by those here.  Just a little confused. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

Verbena   

I read your intro posts, and am so glad that you have found us. Living with our grown up BPDkids can make us feel like the crazy ones sometimes    

This must be so painful for you and your D28's friend. It hurts so bad to be treated with so much abuse, that is denied, and then cut out of our childs life. And all we do as parents is our very best to love and support our kids. There are many resources here to figure out healthier ways to reconnect with our adult kids. The first step is working on ourselves -- this is all we have any power to change. We need to figure out ways to be kind to ourselves, forgive ourselves for being human and not perfect. And ultimately, at least for me, I have had to let go of my need to hold onto my DD26 and leave her to create her own life and manage her own problems. And get on with finding ways to bring joy back into my life.

From this place of courage and stength I can learn to use tools and skills, that are here at bpdfamily.com to learn, to open a door back to my child. When the right time comes. It is a process.

Others will be here soon - to listen to your story, understand your pain, and offer comfort. Let us know if there is anything specific you think would help.

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers tonight.

qcr    

[pessim-optimist]

Hi Verbena,  



Glad you found us!

We can find your intro posts, no need to repeat yourself.

Make yourself at home here, feel free to ask and share.

Welcome again!

Pessi-O

[Verbena]

Thank you, qcr, for your response.  It sounds like you understand and that is something I could never say of anyone other than my husband and my son.  I do feel guilty for sharing my concerns with her friend.  What was I thinking? 

The friend and I have talked since it all happened, and now the issue is that.  Last night my D and SIL showed up at my house with phone records proving we were still communicating.  Some of that communication wasn't even about my D; most of it was about how we regret talking at all and how we wish we could fix the situation.  I felt ambushed and upset that I didn't say what I wanted to say, but I was basically on trial. 

Ironically, tonight I got an e-mail from her friend (ex friend now) asking how I was doing and had anything changed.  I let her know what had happened and that there were really nothing else to say.  It makes me sick that I can't even send her a text inquiring about her prenancy or anything without fear of having my phone records scrutinized.  This girl was a wonderful friend to my daughter for years and put up with a lot.  She's not perfect-- no one is--but I know she did love my daughter. 

[pessim-optimist]

Hi again, Verbena, I have just read your previous posts   

Thank you for sharing. That is a heartbreaking situation... .  Give yourself the time to grieve and to talk this out with your husband and son - they are closest to you and they understand... .  Take good care of yourself, stress can take us down physically.   

BPD is such a difficult, confusing and frustrating illness to cope with. Here, you will be able to share your stories, find listening ears, discover support and new tools and learn new skills. That will all help you deal with your dd in a more effective way, and also help you protect yourself and keep your dignity and sanity.

As for your questions: you are already answering some of them with your own practical solutions.

You say that your dd will not be on your family phone plan soon, so she will not be able to go through the phone records (you can talk to her former friend after that freely). In the meantime, you can continue to keep in touch with her via e-mail, if you like to.

As you describe the Facebook posts that you already apologized for, you could write another letter addressed to your dd and her husband, apologizing again, and validating her feelings of mistrust, and after that simply stating that yes, you communicated with her former friend, sharing and regretting the Facebook posts, that you do not expect her to trust you, but that is what happened, and you wanted her to know, and that if she chooses to have contact with you in the future, she will be welcome and that you love her.

The good news about BPD is that our children sometimes use words like 'forever', 'never again' etc. and they mean it at the time, but eventually they change their minds and start communicating again (at least that has been my experience with females with BPD so far).

So, in the meantime, as sad as the situation is for now, you will have some 'time off' from immediate stress, and also an opportunity to read and learn more about BPD and learn how to communicate with your daughter in a more effective way.

all the best, Verbena!

Pessi-O

[Verbena]

Pessi, thank you so much for your reply.  I feel like I've opened a window today and let in some fresh air.  I wish I had joined a forum like this long ago.  As far as writing another letter, I have thought about it.  Right now I don't think I will, but your advice on what to say is very good. 

Last night at my women's group at church, the message was tailor-made for my situation with my daughter.  I was thinking about that all the way home, that God heard me and knew what I needed to hear. Then as we turned on our street, we saw them sitting in the driveway waiting to talk to us.    I said a quick prayer that I would get through whatever was coming, but I felt like I didn't say or do the right thing at all.  I felt like she "won" and that I looked like a fool.

I have prayed for peace for both myself and my daughter for so long and for answers.  I truly feel He led me here for some help.  Thank you again. 

[griz]

Hi Verbena:

I just read your story this morning and wanted to say welcome  .  My daughter is only 18 but I so understand your feelings of frustration in when our children don't hear what we are saying or hear it only they way they interpret it.  Can you send your DD and her husband a message that just lets her know that you are sorry about the conversation she saw, I don't know what was said but maybe validate her feelings ie: I am sorry that you felt hurt and I can understand how you are feeling or I am sorry you feel betrayed and I understand why you feel that way but I love you very much and I hope we can talk about this.  Maybe it has to sit for awhile before you can go there.

Sorry I don't have more to add, but welcome, it is always good to have people who "truly" understand.

Griz

[jellibeans]

Hello verbena

I read your newbie post... .  at least one of them... .

I don't have an older child my dd is 15 but here is my two cents... .  I think you should writer her a sorry letter... .  I think this has worked for me with my dd and maybe it will work for you... .  H ave read Overcoming BPD by Valerie Porr? If you have not read this please do... .  it is really the best book out there and I have read a lot of them... .  it this book it talks about the letter... .  do a little reading and see if this is an approach that might work for you.

I am sure your dd feels you betrayed her and I would fully acknowledge how that is a very valid emotion... .  she might need some time to cool off... .  but I think the letter is a good way to start a conversation... .  welcome to the group... .  I know others will have a lot more to say but i wanted to at least comment and say hello... .  

[Verbena]

This all happened just before Easter.  At that time I wrote multiple sorry letters (e-mails, texts) to my daughter, and I spoke to my SIL three times in person and apologized profusely to him.  In fact, I repeated myself so many times that I felt like what I was saying was losing its meaning.  That's why I haven't written another one since then.  But I probably will write another one at some point. 

I know how my daughter thinks and know that what she wants is for me to grovel and throw myself at her feet and beg for mercy.  I've seen that scenario in so many of her conflicts with other people.  If the person isn't willing to do that, she goes on a campaign to destroy them.  It's scary. 

[Verbena]

I am facing a difficult situation next week when I have to see her MIL.  I am a decorator and have to install some curtains for her MIL, and I am dreading it.  I have a good relationship with her MIL and really like her.  However, I have no idea what she has been told.  I do know that she thinks the world of my daughter and rightly so.  My daughter does not treat her the way she treats me and does not behave around her the same either.  She does know there's been a lot of drama in d's life since she met her three years ago, but she doesn't know the half of it.  She's basically in the dark and has been fooled by a lot of things. 

So, I'm not looking forward to it.  Any ideas on what to say if she does want to talk to me about all this?  Again, I don't know what she's been told, but I can guarantee you it's not the whole truth. 

[jellibeans]

Verbena

It is good you have a good relationship with MIL... .  if she brings up your dd I think I would be very vague and try to end the conversation... .  Maybe just say that things have been unsettled with dd recently and that you hope she works things out... .  I would try to avoid that kind of conversation or your dd might think you are betraying her once again... .  I don't think that would work out at all... .  unless you have a close relationship with her and she could offer you some advise? Chance are your dd has not shared too much detail with her... .  

I hope time will heal her heart... .  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[pessim-optimist]

Hi again Verbena,

I see how writing yet another sorry letter may not do it justice... .  

You can always let their emotions settle and save the same basic message for later communication, if you need it.

I know how my daughter thinks and know that what she wants is for me to grovel and throw myself at her feet and beg for mercy.  I've seen that scenario in so many of her conflicts with other people.  If the person isn't willing to do that, she goes on a campaign to destroy them.  It's scary.

Hm, that's a difficult scenario, so typical though... .  I think the best response is to find balance between true and genuine humility (in our willingness to be genuine and apologize for wrongs - which you have done), while keeping our dignity, and not giving in to the pwBPD's bullying and blackmail (which can be difficult, but well worth it - if they see they can control us, they will, even more in the future).

As for her MIL - unless you want to, there's no need to talk about it, if she doesn't ask. If she does, you can always decide, if you want to answer, or not, and what your answer would be.

Have you read the "Stop Walking on Eggshells" book? It has a chapter about how to respond to the distortion campaigns. It might help you in this situation.

The gist of it (if I remember correctly) is: just be yourself, people know you for who you are. If you feel a need to set the record straight - be brief, truthful and calm in description of what happened. Don't be defensive, and do not try to vilify the pwBPD - that tends to backfire. You may say 'I'm not sure why she would say something like that, and it makes me sad.', etc.

[Verbena]

I do have the book Stop Walking on Eggshells but haven't looked at it in awhile.  I need to re-read the whole thing soon.  As for the MIL, I am hoping she says nothing and if she does I will simply say, "I can't explain it without making the situation worse" or something like that. 

As I type this, my daughter is actually outside talking to my husband.  She called earlier and he didn't call back.  Thn she texted him and he didn't respond.  So she just showed up.  She seems to be doing all the talking and I feel sure she is trying to get her daddy to agree with her.  It sounds like she is still focused on the fact that I have had communication with her former friend since all this happened.  Anything to keep it from being the real issue... .  

Sigh.  This may be a long night.  I am not going out there.  I honestly don't want to talk to her at all and hope I'm not asked to join in right now. 

[pessim-optimist]

Keep cool, Verbena, I know this must be stressful.   

Remeber: you always have a choice... .  

You don't have to talk to your d, if you don't want to - even if she asks... .  (You can always politely excuse yourself, while validating the fact that she would be disappointed by not being able to discuss what she wants)

[qcarolr]

... .  I think the best response is to find balance between true and genuine humility (in our willingness to be genuine and apologize for wrongs - which you have done), while keeping our dignity, and not giving in to the pwBPD's bullying and blackmail (which can be difficult, but well worth it - if they see they can control us, they will, even more in the future).

pessim-o  - I need to write this down and carry it with me. My struggle seems to be to keep my mind calm and not jump to conclusion that any contact from DD is wanting something from me that I do not want to give. I do feel like the crazier one right now. Because I just don't want to have to deal with any more bullying from her. The past 2 times she has stopped at the house went OK -- I found things to do in other parts of the house or went out to the store... .    And then she leaves without being asked to go.  It is so hard to realize that this is really about my dignity, and not whatever it is she is about.

As I type this, my daughter is actually outside talking to my husband.  She called earlier and he didn't call back.  Thn she texted him and he didn't respond.  So she just showed up.  She seems to be doing all the talking and I feel sure she is trying to get her daddy to agree with her.  It sounds like she is still focused on the fact that I have had communication with her former friend since all this happened.  Anything to keep it from being the real issue... .  

Sigh.  This may be a long night.  I am not going out there.  I honestly don't want to talk to her at all and hope I'm not asked to join in right now. 

Vebena -- wish we could meet up for a quiet visit at a coffee shop somewhere... .  

Sometimes they just need to let it go and are unable to -- so sorry she is trying to 'recruit' your dh by splitting you. Hope he can stick to you like glue -- one solid beautiful piece of wood. Is your dh able to be there for you as a partner?

My dh has really surprised me with his intense support in our stand that led to DD26 no longer living in our home. She is stopping over a couple times a week so far to get clean clothes, do laundry, etc. She also has spent a little time with her daughter (gd7 that dh and I have custody for since she was a baby) and walking the dogs. Will this turn into a manageable pattern? For how long?

It makes me sick to feel the need to avoid her -- but there being any kind of yelling I can't tolerate either. Working with my T weekly now to find some balance for myself.

What things are you doing to take care of your needs?

qcr    

[Verbena]

I am so frustrated right now!  My daughter came in the house with a Mother's Day card.  We hugged and cried and she said she wanted to talk.  It did not go well.   She insisted on demonizing the friend and insisting that I needed to prove to her that I was no longer communicating with her friend.  She is now claiming that she only told me she agreed that she had BPD ten years ago because she wanted to get me off her back since I already thought she had it.  She says she has no memory of me ever saying that a pscyhiatrist told me that was his diagnosis and that I told her that was his diagnosis. 

I foolishly thought the conversation might go well, but she only gave me the card to soften me up thinking that I would get on my hands and knees and agree with everything she said.  I refused to do that.  She actually said she didn't like my attitude and that I should be crying and begging her forgiveness and saying I'm wrong and you're right.  (I did apologize several more times for talking to her friend, but I didn't grovel which is what she wanted.)   

I tried to tell her the issues and the behavior that have been there for so long would be there whether I had talked to her friend or not, but when I tried to explain that she just interrupted me and said she didn't want to talk about the past.  She let me know when she left that she would be having babies very soon and that I would be involved in their lives, but it would be a very small part.  She also said that her MIL and husband's aunt ALL think it is wrong for me to continue to have any type of communication with her former friend even if it was just to tell her that the situation hasn't changed and how we regret it.  She INSISTED I show her my e-mails and I refused and said I didn't have to do that. 

[Verbena]

qcr, I can only imagine how hard it is for with a grandchid you have to protect.  Thank goodness you are there for her.  As far as what I'm doing to help myself, I am getting back to doing Pilates which helps.  I spent a fun night with a friend last night which helped, too.  Thank you for your comments and support.  I'll keep you in my prayers. 

[qcarolr]

Hi Verbena -   

It is so hard when our girls believe - they believe - they are so entitled to have power over our lives. And I have to remind myself this is because they feel so powerless in their own life in some way (or many ways). And I am done apologizing for being ME to my DD. I am entitled to my own privacy with my emails, phone calls, text messages, conversations, etc, just as my DD is entitled to privacy in her life. She is an adult, I am an adult. We can go our seperate ways.

To believe, even for a moment, that my DD is entitled to have this power over me -- well it is just a lie to myself. It is a lie. And not a lie from my DD, She can believe whatever she chooses - I have no power or control over her mind. I am choosing to no longer GIVE my DD power over my thoughts, feelings, actions.

If this means I have very little to say to my DD, other than about things like the weather, who is president, etc. than we will be  very quiet when together. It is hard, and will take practice, to stop making assumptions about what my DD is thinking. Your DD seems to make her consicous thoughts very very clear to you. I know how very painful this is. It takes practice with things like mindfulness, getting in touch with our core values, and figuring out the boundaries to protect those for ourselves (not to change our pwBPD, nor to have them accept us). Learning validation as a communication tool is very very helpful when we are strong in ourselves and ready to approach reconnecting in a healthier way with our pwBPD. Can you give yourself a break from your D? Shift the focus to YOU? It is hard. I am working on doing this too. To replace my obessively thinking of her with thinking of something else.

Sorry if this is sounding harsh - I am feeling very strongly about this in my own life. And I have only the best of wishes as you journey along this path to YOURSELF. By some miracle things may get more calm with your D. Perhaps it will always be a little cool. You can share you love for her on birthdays, holidays, etc. IMHO

qcr  

[jellibeans]

How did it all end V? Was there some progress? Sounds like at least the door is open... .  stick with your boundaries... .  don't let her bully you... .  I think you did well but I would not try to explain too much... .  validate more and move forward... .  I hope this was a start of something good... .  

[Verbena]

I definitely gave my daughter too much power last night in our conversation.  I said way more than I should even though I knew the best way was to just keep it simple. I'm just kicking myself for not keeping my dignity and maintaining some sense of control over the situation.   It was just a disaster and I think it's worse now actually.  I just found out that she shared the conversation I had with her best friend (the one that admittedly was tacky and gossipy out of my frustration) with her MIL, FIL, and other relatives.  According to her, they are shocked at my behavior.  Also according to her, she and her husband think I may have BPD and need medication myself.  All of this I found out because she had a lengthy conversation with my husband this afternoon while I was taking a nap--a much needed one since I slept about 3 hours last night. 

The only way the conversation would have gone well last night was for me to grovel, for me to lie and agree with her that no diagnosis was ever made, and admit that I am crazy, her friend is the Devil, and there is no basis for any of my concerns.  She basically wants to re-write history.  She is completely consumed with this and I can only imagine how horrible it is at her house right now.  It's not that great around here either. 

I just want to get through the window treatment installation this next week at her in-law's house.  I am completely helpless to defend myself to them and don't even want to because I can't tell the truth.  My husband is convinced that no matter what I said to them--even if I laid out her entire history of behavior--they would STILL be on her side and not believe me.  I plan on saying nothing and if asked, say very little.  Right now I'm thinking my response will be, "I can't say anything that would help right now." 

qcr, I wish we could meet for coffee, too!  Hang in there with your daughter. 

[pessim-optimist]

It's ok, Verbena,

Don't kick yourself too much.   

Thinking about situations in theory and analyzing them here is so much easier than actually going through them in real time.

All the talk and brainstorming can help us get better at our skills and maybe remember some of that in the heat of the moment, but it takes time to practice.

One thing to remember: my step-daughter will always talk to anyone who will listen about who has wronged her etc., and then she will report back with what the others think about the offender. But her take on THAT is not always accurate, and sometimes very different from reality.

So, give her MIL and FIL the benefit of the doubt. Don't automatically assume that they are appalled (they may be, but may not). That would be directly playing into your dd's scenario of her distortion campaign... .  

All the best, hope the installation will go peacefully... .  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Oh I think that is a slippery slope... .  we all wish we had said things differently at times but don't dwell there... .  learn what you can from the situation and move on. You can only control what you do and say. Don't worry about what theses other people think of you... .  I am sure your dd has shared stories with them before about someone else that wronged her... .  after while I am sure they will start to wonder why it is always some else fault and not your dd... .  someone that blames someone else all the time is very telling after a while.

My dd has a very hard time talking about herself or even being in the same room with me talking about her to the T... .  she just can't bare it... .  maybe your dd is like this too... .  maybe your approach is wrong? Maybe you could try to see a T with her? or maybe she needs some time to cool off. Time will heel all... .  take some time for your self

[Verbena]

Update:  I sent an e-mail to my dd28 about a week ago basically saying the same things I've been saying all along about our current situation.  I haven't gotten any response whatsoever which is not surprising.   Today I had to deliver something to a shop where I sell some items I've designed.  The shop is run by one of dd's friends who apparently knows every detail of this whole mess (not suprising) and the friend made a point to tell me what she thinks about the situation.  I told her I wasn't going to discuss it with her--and I didn't--but she said she wanted me to know what she thought.  So I listened to her for a couple of minutes and then said I had to go. 

The friend basically said that she was sick of my daughter going on and on about what I did to her and that she had stopped calling her for that reason.  She said dd was consumed by this and that it was destroying her.  She actually told dd that the whole phone records things was wrong and out of line.  Apparently, my dd nearly came unglued when her friend said that, and now they are barely speaking. 

I was surprised that this friend brought up any of this and was quite uncomfortable with it, but I guess I do feel a little bit validated that at least one of her friends "gets it".  The friend also said to me that dd needed to get some psychological help and that dd's husband was taking this way too far with his backing her up.  I wish that more of her friends would speak up and hold her accountable for her behavior.  They are not helping her by just agreeing with her when they know what her behavior is like.  She is very charming and very manipulative. 

Even though I said virtually nothing to this friend, I can see this coming back to bite me.  I guess if it does, it does.  I still haven't delivered the window treatments to her mother-in-law yet.  She texted me that she needed some other items, and I suggested that I bring them out to her house all at once.  So I have a little more time before I have to go over there.  I still dread it. 

[Rapt Reader]

Thanks for the update, Verbena... . I've been keeping up with your dilemma here (similar problems with my S34 and his uBPDw36), and I'm happy that you at least have the validation of your feelings from some of your D's friends. I hope your interaction with your D's in-laws goes better than you fear. Who knows? Maybe they actually see through her and they will be more sympathetic to your situation than you think... . Good luck!   

[Verbena]

Thanks for the update, Verbena... . I've been keeping up with your dilemma here (similar problems with my S34 and his uBPDw36), and I'm happy that you at least have the validation of your feelings from some of your D's friends. I hope your interaction with your D's in-laws goes better than you fear. Who knows? Maybe they actually see through her and they will be more sympathetic to your situation than you think... . Good luck!   

[/quote

Until all her friends step up and confirm that she needs help, one friend won't make any difference really.  DD will just cast that friend out and demonize her.  But yes, it does help to know that other peope who care about her are willing to speak the truth. I don't know how the in-laws couldn't see through her, but I struggle with even wanting them to right now.  I could only defend myself with them by telling them the whole, sordid truth of the last 15 years, and I don't want to do that.

To the comment from another member who suggested we go to therapy together:  I would do that in a heartbeat if she was willing, but I can only imagine how suggesting that would go over right now.  It is her and her husband's position that she "has no issues" and that the problem is my meddling.  Maybe at some point... .

Btw, I completely forgot to mention that my son spoke to her last week.  He has been out of the country for months but came home last Monday and went to her house the next night.  He actually sat and listened to her for nearly two hours as she read e-mails and texts and laid out the whole situation for him.  He already knew from me and my dh, but he let her tell it.  She told him some outright lies which I expected.  He couldn't get through to her at all, but I think in her mind  he's "on her side". 

She told her brother that I needed to prove to her that I could be trusted and only then could she forgive me.  I am so sick of all of this being about forgiving me instead of dealing with the issues that allowed me to ever speak to her best friend in the first place. 

Thank you all for your comments and encouragement. 

[Verbena]

I finally met with my DD28's mother-in-law tonight.  She came to my house instead and picked up the window treatments, etc. that I did for her.  She did not make any mention of the situation between me and my daughter.   In fact, she was even more upbeat, talkative, and friendly than normal.  She stayed for an hour and a half!  She is re-modeling her house from top to bottom, and she had plans and samples to show me.  We had a really good visit.  The elephant was definitely in the room, but we ignored it. 

I suspect that she breathed a sigh of relief when she left that I didn't say anything, and I know I breathed a sigh of relief that she didn't say anything. For a solid year, she has been put in the middle of a nasty feud between my daughter and her sister-in-law and she hated it.  Apparently, she isn't going to treat me any differently or ask any questions.  I'm so relieved. 

Still no contact with DD.  I put the ball in her court in my last e-mail to her.  I told her I hoped we could move forward at some point but that it was pointless for any of us (me, her, her daddy, her husband) to keep saying the same things over and over and going in circles.  So no contact.  Her birthday is coming up and I'm wondering how to handle that.  Any suggestions?

[Rapt Reader]

I'm so glad you gave us an update, Verbena... . I was wondering what happened with your daughter's MIL, and I'm happy to see that your relationship with her is good and intact     I'm sorry that your problems with your daughter are still percolating; it's not easy to smooth something like that over when the person you are trying to reason with is unreasonable  :'(

I mentioned in my earlier comment that I was dealing with something similar with my S34 and his uBPDw. They had been NC with me for more than a month, and it was driving me crazy because the list of grievances that they'd given me by email were really not true (well, probably true for them, but not true in my reality.) What I did that apparently calmed things down was write an email to them that used the S.E.T formula, and after a few days of my email to them my S34 broke the ice (called me very late on Mother's Day, whispering on the phone since his wife was sleeping). After another 2 weeks or so, in our friendly emails back and forth, my son told me I should call his wife the next day and just chat about easy things. Which I did, and we spoke for 45 minutes (!) in a very friendly atmosphere and now I think we've gotten over the hump... . We'll see how long this lasts 

One thing that helped me with the initial ice-breaking email was to not address every single accusation of my supposed heinous behavior, but I was able to break down the grievances into 3 main complaints, and I addressed them by using S.E.T.: I supported their angst by just acknowledging that they felt it and why; I empathized with their feelings, saying that if I saw their position the way they did I would feel the same anger, frustration and sadness; and then I gently just told them the truth of the situation (the way I saw it on my side) without using "but" or "however." I just stated it simply and carefully and nonjudgmentally.

I did not JADE in any way: no justifying my position, no arguing my points, no defending my feelings or actions, and no explaining why I was telling the truth or what I believed was really going on. And, with the one issue that I felt I could in all honesty acknowledge was a failing of mine, I sincerely empathized with their feelings and said that I should have been cognizant of the situation before and apologized sincerely for not doing that in the past. My son (who is not BPD, but appears to have "fleas" from the years of dealing with a pwBPD) was affected by this email first, as evidenced by the friendly, loving Mother's Day phone call and subsequent emails. My DIL, who I believe is uBPD (or at least has strong BPD traits), eventually softened after I called her and had that no-conflict, friendly conversation.

Not sure if any of this helps you at all--obviously everyone is different and your situation is not exactly the same as mine--but I did want to give you a   and say that I know what you are suffering, and to give you my support... . Hang in there, Verbena... . And if you can continue to keep us updated, that would be really good 

[Verbena]

Rapt Reader,

Thank you for your response.  The meeting with the MIL went much better than I expected.  She is going to want more window treatments from me in the future as she remodels her house, so I will have contact with her about those projects.  I plan to keep my distance othewise, because I can see my DD throwing a fit over it if we are "too nice" to each other.  Been down that road too many times,

I had never heard of SET or JADE before but think my last communication with her followed those guidelines.  The e-mail from three weeks ago basically said the following:

*I understand that you are hurt because I spoke to your friend about my concerns for you and I don't blame you for feeling hurt.

*I recognize that you don't feel that are any issues I need to be concerned about.

*I won't try to convince you otherwise.

*We cannot keep repeating ourselves to each other thinking it will help the situation.

*We can move forward if we can stop repeating ourselves and going in circles.

I think my daughter believes she his punishing me with her silence, but trust me, I'd rather not hear from her than have to wonder every day when the next explosion or accusation was coming.  She lived in my house for 26 years so I had my fill of it. 

Rapt Reader, I hope your situation goes smoothly, at least for awhile.  You sound like you've figured out how to handle yourself in the difficult situations that come with BPD.  What are "fleas" by the way?  And how do you think I should handle her birthday in two weeks? 

[qcarolr]

Hi Verbena,

I am so happy for you that things went calmly with the MIL. There are many times I remind myself to leave my DD27's 'stuff' out of my mind when around others that know her. They have their own relationship with my DD. Not always easy to do.

Here is a link to information so helpful in coping with our BPD kids. Check out the ":)iscussion #3" as you page down for communication tools. SET is included in one of these topics, and is a good starting tool for you to learn about.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=114267.0#lastPost

This can also be located on the main page for this board as thread for "WHat parents can do".

Thanks for keeping us posted.

qcr  

[Rapt Reader]

Happy Saturday, Verbena   

"Fleas" are the BPD traits picked up by the people who have to live with and learn to mollify their pwBPD... . as in: "If you lie down with dogs, you're gonna wake up with fleas!"  Unless, of course, those traits are rejected by our using our good communication tools of S.E.T. and Validation    Unfortunately, my DIL is undiagnosed and my S34 is just "dancing as fast as he can" trying to keep up with her and keep her happy... . Someday, at the right time (which is not today!), I will offer him my "Stop Walking on Eggshells" book so he can start to understand what is happening in their relationship... . I hope {{{{sigh}}}}

As far as her birthday goes... . If it were me (and I only know the personalities and situations of the BPD people in my life: My older S36, my uBPDdil & my uBPDmil) I always recognize big events like Birthdays, Anniversaries, Graduations, etc. with at least a card (and if I feel comfortable enough with the situation at the time, sometimes a phone call) with some money in it as a gift. I know, in my case, if I ignore them--even during a time of No Contact--there will be hell to pay in the end. And, even if there were no hell to pay, it's not in my nature to ignore a big event. Ever. I'm kinda sentimental and like to make people (especially those who are ticked at me for no reason at all!   ) feel special on their "special day." 

I think if you ponder it, you will know in your heart what the right this is for you to do... . What makes you like yourself, even if she doesn't like you so much at the time? What can she do? Yell and scream to her in-laws about how much of a terrible Mom you are for sending her a card with money in it for her Birthday? That would be weird... . and if she did it, they would think so, too    Good luck     (But, I know that you are the only one who can know what's right for you in your own situation)

[Verbena]

Rapt Reader, thank you for the information on "fleas", etc.  I've been doing a lot of reading on here lately and continue to be shocked at how similar my situation is to so many others. 

I never intended to ignore DD's birthday but didn't know if a card in the mail was all I should do.  The card and check are going in the mail today, and I will send her a text on the actual day telling her happy birthday.

My husband texted her this week (we've had zero contact since the Saturday before Mother's Day) saying maybe they could go out for lunch together.  She responded favorably but hasn't followed through with setting up a time with him.  However, now he wishes he hadn't contacted her because of a new wrinkle in the drama.

It seems that a few days ago her brother posted something about forgiveness on his FB wall (he had his sister in mind but it was just a generic post really) and the former best friend, the one I shared my concerns about DD with, "liked" it.  My son-in-law then posted a long response in which he slammed the former best friend for "liking" a post on forgiveness when she has never apologized to my daughter.  The friend has not spoken to my daughter at all since we were "caught" discussing our concerns for her.  She knows how DD would react so she has stayed away, and I think that is a wise move on her part.  Anyway, my SIL's response on the FB post was way over the top.  I still can't believe he did that for everyone to see.  My son deleted it all.  Judging from the people who "liked" what SIL had to say, we now know that DD has told family members on my husband's side what happened.  I'm sure she left out the part about her behavior for the last fifteen years or so. 

Anyway, that's the current status of affairs.  I suspect we will hear something from her on Father's Day.  She might even come over here as she did the night before Mother's Day.  I will do everything in my power not to engage in any discussion with her other than polite small talk, if that.  I am determined not to go back to the way it was, and if that means no contact then it does.

[Rapt Reader]

Gee, Verbena... .     I feel so bad for your son, who was just expressing his feelings, and trying to help in some little way. It's crazy how such a little, innocent act or comment can blow up into some major storm of a problem with people who have BPD or BPD traits! Maybe your SIL is uBPD, or has those "fleas" that made him react in such a way? {{{{{shiver}}}}} I truly hope your son isn't suffering from guilt or remorse for his FB post; he's not in any way to blame for trying to be a good brother and son   

I think whatever you decide to do for your daughter's birthday, if it works for you, it will be right... . You know the old saying "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" probably will be in effect here, and so you do what makes you happy, and what will enable you to sleep at night knowing you did the right thing... . I so can relate to how things are going with your D and her H. I'm always very careful dealing with my S34 and his W; we're still on speaking/emailing terms, but I truly never know when the next perfect storm will brew up over some innocuous thing I inadvertently do or say   

Good luck on Father's Day, and I really think you've learned the tools of validation, radical acceptance and boundaries at this point to get through it in one piece   I can sense the detachment you are starting to feel with this; that she is who she is and you can't change her... . Much love   

[Verbena]

Thanks for your response, Rapt Reader!  No, my new son-in-law is not BPD at all.  He's just going way overboard defending my daughter and in complete denial about her problems and blaming others which is what she's always done.  So maybe he is picking up some "fleas" along the way.  I'm sad for her and for him both.    I'm sure life for him would be horrible if he wasn't doing what he's doing.  Still, he is not helping my DD with his behavior. 

And yes, my son felt bad that his post prompted all this.  He is going to China for two years in August (he's in England now) and won't be allowed over there to have a Facebook.  I've already gotten rid of mine and my husband is about to do the same. DD thrives on FB because she presents herself in a completely different way from the way she behaves much of the time.  Most of her thousand or so FB friends have no clue about her issues. 

I mailed the birthday card earlier today and still plan to send a text on her actual birthday.  We'll see what happens.  It's interesting that you used the term "perfect storm".  I was talking to my sister just last night and that expression came up.  The current crises (me talking with DD's best friend about her issues and unacceptable behavior and DD finding out) was truly the perfect storm.  Her riff with her SIL for the last year was wearing thin, and she needed something new so she could be a victim.  This situation is really a two-for-one because she can gain sympathy from people who can't believe her own mother and own best friend could be so horrible.  Those people would see it differently if they had walked in her friend's shoes and especially my shoes. 

I almost dread the day when we do get back on speaking terms because I know it will just be a matter of time until I do something to offend her.  It just won't ever be that I talked to a friend about her.  I will never do that again because I won't ever again be foolish enough to think that a friend could get through to her when I can't.  I don't know if anyone can get through to her, especially when her own new husband is backing her up, in denial, and willing to say what he said for the world to see. 

I hope your next "storm" is a long way off.  I'll keep you and your son and DIL in my prayers. 

[Rapt Reader]

Thanks for the prayers, Verbena... . you are in mine, also     Every time things are sorta on the quiet (but not No Communication) side with them, I always wonder if it is the "lull before the storm." Because, well~~you never know, you know   I think your SIL may well have the same "fleas" that I believe my own son is infested with 

What books have you been reading? I know that "Stop Walking on Eggshells" was invaluable for my understanding and healing. Have you gone to The Learning Center down towards the bottom of the Message Boards page? There are links there to Workshops, Articles, Book Reviews, etc. that may have some valuable information for you... . Not only for learning how to communicate with your Daughter, but also for learning how to take care of yourself. I feel like it's time to be good to you now~~do you take time to make yourself happy? I can't remember if you've mentioned any hobbies or extracurricular activities, but things like that would sure take your mind off of your D and all the stress related to that relationship. Maybe you are doing that already, and I'm just worrying about you for no reason   

I feel connected to you; your situation resembles mine in a lot of ways--not only do I have a child (a son, 36) DXed with BPD, but also the other son (34) with the undiagnosed W. I "get" you and what you are dealing with   

[Verbena]

Rapt Reader, yes we are in similar situations.  One person in my life with this illness is nearly more than I can take, and you have a double dose of it! I think you have a better grasp on dealing with it than I do, but I'm getting there.  I have read Stop Walking on Eggshells several times and have looked at some of the links here.  I just need to do more and prepare myself so that whatever happens next, I will be ready to deal with it the best way possible.   

I retired at 51 last year and basically do what I want when I want.  I am a major homebody and get enjoyment from working on my house and in my yard.  I have a decorating business that keeps me busy.  I currently have several projects going and hope to start another next week--a living room makeover that I'm excited about.  Thank you for thinking of me.  I really don't sit around and dwell on all of this mess like it might seem.  I've dealt with everything for so long that I'm pretty much numb to it.  I did wake up in the middle of the night in tears over my daughter this last week, and I do think of her often. 

As far as I know, I don't personally know anyone in my situation and that can be so isolating.  It's such a relief to come on this board and say whatever I want knowing that people understand. 

[Rapt Reader]

Rapt Reader, yes we are in similar situations.  One person in my life with this illness is nearly more than I can take, and you have a double dose of it!   

 

As far as I know, I don't personally know anyone in my situation and that can be so isolating.  It's such a relief to come on this board and say whatever I want knowing that people understand. 

Ah, Verbena... . You forget that my Mother-In-Law is also (undiagnosed, but definitely) BPD    And, yes... . It is such a relief to be part of a community where people understand what you are talking about! That's why I spend so much time on this site myself

I'm glad you've got so many things to keep your mind off of your D's troubles; I knew about your home decorating business (that's how you end up being around your D's MIL, right?) and my husband, also, gets his stress relieved by working outside in the yard and in the garden (I'm more of an "inside" gal, myself   ). You mentioned in a prior post that you have family members and outside friends who don't know the symptoms and behaviors your D manifests with you, and how hard that is to stomach; I know exactly how that feels, also... . My DIL & S34 have put me in that spot, too... . Sometimes I just want to spill my story to set it straight with everyone so that the "evil Mother/Mother-In-Law" role they sometimes put me in is smashed to bits... . Oh well... .  

I'm happy you are here in this community, to talk to... .  

[Verbena]

I have been anxious all day thinking DD would make an appearance since it's Father's Day.  However, it's after 8 p.m., and we haven't heard from her.  She also never followed through with making plans to eat lunch with her daddy as he suggested in a text a few days ago.  My son told me on Skype today that he sent his sister and BIL a FB message a few days ago letting them know he has taken a job in China for two years, but he never got a response. 

I guess I'm relieved she didn't come over because I'm really not wanting to be around her.  But I am surprised.  It's not like her to ignore something like Father's Day.  She's big into giving cards and gifts.