Full psychosis in hospital

[Dave89]

The landlord where my wife rents a place called in today and said that as far as from last week my wife is experiencing psychosis in hospital - she feels like in a dream with Jim Carrey and see many lights... Is this something you have experience with? Seems that her condition had worsened to a new point. Even before the hospital, she asked if she can sleep in one bed with her landlord and asked to remove all sharp instruments such as knives and scissors because she is in bad mental condition. She was also paranoid, as she explained. And somehow was able to obtain huge debt in the bank. And impulsively spend it on expensive furniture. Then as you know she ended in walking with bare feet in city and somebody noticed her and called the police...


The most side of the conversation was very strong pressure to kick her out from her rental apartment, she gave me ultimatums and tried to accused that she lied about many things and therefore the rental agreement was not valid. And that I need to take care of her belongings and she will drive them to me tomorrow. I didn't give in pressure but it was very uncomfortable to talk with her for 20 minutes! I stood my ground, and tomorrow morning I am going to social services to seek help and the need to answer if she is independent at the moment or she needs some legal guardian from them to deal with her rental place, loans, belongings, and bills. Since the hospital is ignoring me and probably their social worker is not into this case, I hope they can step in. But if she will bring the things to me, I will call the police to resolve that nonsense...

And I have no idea is she getting better, worse or stable... There is no relative of hers at this country at this moment as well. I hope there is a resonable chance she will come back to reality at some point? Has this happened in your experience with BPD? I would really appreciate your input. I saw disassociation on a few occasions before, but never this deep psychosis of complete loss of reality...

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[Radcliff]

Borderline personality disorder gets the name "borderline" because while pwBPD have reality distortions, the condition is not considered to be a psychosis.  They are on the "borderline" between being psychotic and not psychotic.  She may be dealing with a condition beyond BPD.  Are you able to talk to the people at the hospital to better understand what is going on with her?

RC

[Enabler]

Does she use drugs in attempt to self medicate her emotions?

Drug induced psychosis is very common especially with people with pre-disposition to cognitive distortions and emotional extremes.

Enabler

[Dave89]

Hi Radcliff

Are you able to talk to the people at the hospital to better understand what is going on with her?

Yesterday I was finally able for the first time to speak with the nurse of her department.  She just collected the information I gave on her health condition, family history that she can relay to doctors, I don´t know if they will use it anyway. Otherwise, I have no information from doctors about her. It may be because in my country unless the patient especially allows providing his/her data, it will be concealed from anyone else by default. Given that shortly before she had gone crazy, she was deep in the devaluation and distortion world, got her lawyer involved wanted a divorce, accused of DV and whatnot, I don't even know. Like typical drama, she had made before. In text messages, though, she was kind, I could not tell what she is doing behind my back trying to convince others about her distortions.

Hey Enabler,

Does she use drugs in attempt to self medicate her emotions?

I have no idea. At least until we lived together (a month ago) she did not do that. I believe also not later. She indeed has a very sensitive nervous system regarding drugs (she takes them in micro dosage usually) so if the doctors put her on more medication than her brain could handle maybe she went from dissociation to psychosis, but this may just be speculation.

[Dave89]

I´m just so done with this relationship. My lawyer today put a very high bill to me, even before he actually had written to her lawyer about the divorce / legal separation.  I don't know if I should revoke his power of attorney if they can just put x hours on and count the slightest e-mail into heavy taxed per hour legal fee... I don't even know if I need one. I have only last asset to divide - that is my car, I have to give her half, and I think we are done. So why should I pay him... Sorry, just ranting.

He wrote to me this today

"X", "wife's" attorney, answered my e-mail yesterday and told me she would be representing her in the divorce case. She told me that the accounts were not frozen and they had not started that procedure because they were waiting for "my wife" to get better.

Obviously, her lawyer is waiting for her to become better if she is together with "Jim Carrey" currently in the hospital. My wife's landlord (the same that wants to kick her out now) told me all kinds of lies that my car, accounts are frozen and that I have divorce case in court and whatnot, so I was stupid enough, I got my lawyer, but at like always, it seems kinda fake, as knowing my wife is chameleon, she will come out of hospital one day and will say she wants back to me, but I will say enough. She will not anymore be able to convince me that she will change and so on, like before. Even if she will threaten suicide, I will not take her back, I am barely surviving, after all, that she has done to me during the last 8 years. I still care about her, she is dear to me, but I don't see her as a romantic partner anymore and I do want to get at very least legal separation. But I have financial difficulties because she spends so much of our money and I don't know if the best would be just to fight against her lawyer by myself, I really don't see any useful help from my lawyer, more than taking high rates for doing nothing. We don't have children or real estate. I am living on a very low income since my health is in a shipwreck and I will be only able to recover when I will keep her far away from me.

After the latest drama from her new landlord, I wrote her following:

Hello "Landlord". First of all, as you mentioned in a phone call yesterday, by involving me as a third party person in your rental dispute with "my wife", you are acting against your lawyer’s advice. I have to point out that this hasn’t been the first time you are acting on behalf of another person without legal rights or authority to do so. Secondly, I do not tolerate any threats or ultimatums. If any actions that are illegal will follow, I will have to get the law enforcement involved.
And lastly, I will kindly ask you to not contact me again. I can’t be involved in disputes I have no rights or responsibilities to be involved in.
All my best, Dave.

I just had enough of these problem makers my wife finds and the turns against me, then they burn their hands and ask me to save them from my wife's actions, life's irony, since they were persecuting me before I usually would help before. I was very submissive all the time, wanted to do everything for my wife for these 8 years, but she acted so cruelly. Now I need to stand my ground. I have had enough. I think there were 20 people against me during this time. It's just crazy. I was always kind to them and tried to be the good guy who admits that maybe I did some wrong. But instead of them being nice to me, they became even more vengeful. But now I looked back and said to myself, don't put yourself in that role, because you are not that guy your wife had made you. Of course later she always comes back and regrets everything, and says she lied to everyone and maybe even shows repentance to some small level, but man, that never stops, NEVER. I believed her that this time everything will be different, many times, but it actually even gets worse and worse. I always asked for trouble in being naive but also wanting to help her, because I really loved her with all my heart, I was ready to sacrifice my life for her at any time. I still would, but only if that would heal her mind, what obviously that would not. I now want to end this for good before I am still alive.

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry to hear what a tough time you're having.  Regarding the trouble with the landlord and similar issues, you might want to check out the article on the Karpman Drama Triangle.  Learning how to step aside from interactions like that can really save a lot of trouble.

Lawyer issues and the legal process can bring an immense amount of stress.  Consider posting some of those issues on the Family Law board.

RC

[Dave89]

Yes, I have read about Drama Triangle, I should have acted quicker to stop it, but I think I have now sent clear message that I will stay out of this.

Her landlord was at first rescuer to my wife, persecutor to me and my wife was the victim, and in the end, she turned to that she is a victim of my wife, and she needs me to rescue her from their problems, by accepting her belongings otherwise she will throw them on street in front of my house, accusing my wife had lied to her about her employment, etc and therefore their rental contract is not valid. Yeah, well, no thanks, I am not involving myself anymore!  

It's sometimes so hard to make the right decisions when under such pressure and talking to highly emotional persons. I made the mistake of involving my lawyer too soon, for example, because I over-reacted to the wrong information I was given. I just want to avoid reacting to that drama, and only respond to written official documentation from legal side. When you have a really mentally unstable person such as my wife and her distortions, it really creates a lot of mess that is not easy to find the best solution how to deal with. Yesterday I felt very anxious, but putting out that mess in my own head helps and today I'm feeling better again. I am also trying to get her aunt of FOO to come here to our country, to support my wife, I want to reduce my interactions to the necessary minimum. And get others involved, so that I could shift things as they were before when I was taking care of her illness and I didn't let anyone know just how bad her mental state was. I was good at it, she got better most of the times, with a help of high dose OMEGA-3, curcumin, 3-times daily meal and walking outside, bought her gym card, she started to go there, but I always burned out in the end, since she would turn against me eventually since this is more than just when she stops eating and wants to die, this includes a lot of aggression that is directed towards me and it intensifies, no matter what tactics I chose (being pleasing guy or setting boundaries or just taking step back and giving her freedom). When she is on a destructive path no one can stop her. And she is there quite often.

I am sad of seeing her destroying everything that helped her to at least function to some degree, but at the same time, I dropped my role as being the only person (that is how she viewed often as well) that can somehow rescue her and give her stability in her life. She starts to hate that stability later on and her distorted view starts to define that as oppression. But what she doesn't realize is that she is oppressing herself by not seeking professional help that I tried to motivate her to do so many times to learn to mitigate the inner pain that causes her distress. She had DBT book that I bought, but she just very seldom took the time to read it, even though I always felt it helped her a bit, and she even shared with me some good ideas she red. I want the best for her in life, but I had made a really strong decision that I am not taking her back by any chance. I don't believe in 1% miracle that she can get her life together to at least be able to be in relationships, not split every second month for 8 years. I have come to the idea that I will live alone for many years now and that is how I can save my own sanity and health. And have some relative peace.

[Radcliff]

It sounds like you've decided to take a rest from being reactive and pushing things on the medical and legal fronts.  You're making careful choices about what to get involved in and what not to.  That's good.  While you take some time to gather strength and have more peace, are there other areas of your life that are going smoothly?  That you can gain strength from focusing on?

RC

[Dave89]

Yes, as much as I want her to get the best treatment, I have come to terms that I will allow doctors work on her. They have a full responsibility to make her feel better and they can go to court if they do serious mistakes, since they are licensed pshyciatrists.

Back to my original question - besides diagnosed BPD (only by one doctor) she also has suspected comorbid bi-polar disorder. I noticed she was in mania phase for the last few weeks before she ended up in hospital. She took high loan and wrote me messages with many “!” “?” signs, she almost never does that. And she changed her place of living 2 times shortly. I am not sure that this was just strong emotional distress only, it seems she was very excited but also confused to re-start her life. She definetaly had paranoid ideation up to very high level. But this mania of Bi-polar can very well lead into psychosis she is having now, as far as I read from clinical studies. So that can explain, her doctor (that diagnosed BPD and bi-polar) actually wanted to test Lamotrigine medication on her, but she didn’t had second visit to her, well maybe in hospital now besides anti-phsycotics they can test something from this class on her. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Well I quit my job half a year ago due to chronic stress both in my high-demand work and my home life... I am having paid unemployment benefits now. I also quit my religion of 15 years about 4 months ago, so that was a huge change and lost all my friends (they stopped associate). I do like going to gym and taking daily cold baths to regulate my emotions. I am quite sensitive person in general, so that makes life more colorful, but also much more stressful for me. I do 1x a week theraphy session for the last 5 years, that seems to have positive effect.

[Birddog]

I don’t want to get you off track and let the physicians do their job, my spouse has Schizotypal PD diagnosis, paranoid, anxiety, trust issues, tons of false accusations, devaluation campaigns. The delusional thinking was a part. Saw lots of devaluation,  the splitting had her dad thinking she was bipolar.

False word associations were a big thing, so the l! And ? Peaked my interest. My SO also started using single letters with significant meaning. Trust issues are huge, and all relationships except her close family have suffered.

Something to throw out there if it hasn’t been ruled out.

4th week in on low dose 2nd gen anti-psychotics have had marked improvement in combination of balancing hypothyroid condition. Not perfect, but to a point can work with.





.

[Radcliff]

The medications you're talking about are pretty far beyond what most of the folks here have experience with.  Focus on yourself.  It sounds like you've got your hands full working on rebuilding your life.

A good first step is to widen your support network.  You've got us here, and your therapist, which is a good start.  Do you have any ways to meet new friends?  Do you have any other sources of support?

RC

[Dave89]

Hey, Birddog

It can be hard with diagnoses. I know for sure my wife meet BPD 8 to 9 symptoms, but about other conditions, I have no idea... Well, I am gona trust the doctors to do their best and stop being paranoid that something bad will happen to her, myself   It so much better now her being in the hospital then lost somewhere in the city without her shoes on and police rescue called upon her.

Radcliff,

I am trying to do focus on myself, it's changing, you know. Some days I am doing fairly well, some days I tend to too much think about her condition. And that is normal to some level of course, given the situation. But I am not enmeshed anymore with her and her problems like I was before, I distance myself and let others help her, including her FOO.

I have one friend back in my country of birth, we talk basically daily. It takes a long time for me to make new friends, but I have a few that I could see as my friends withing some years from now. I am thinking of joining some groups of an active lifestyle, such as running together or doing breathing exercises or cold exposure or just camping in forests, something for fun and physical exercise, I think those people most of the time are more psychologically healthier / positive to be around. But that is just an idea, I am still working on it.

[Birddog]

I’ll be honest, without my running group and outdoor friends, don’t think I would have made it through.

[Dave89]

That is so good you have found a group like that! For me, it is 2-celsius degree cold shower and cold tub with a combination of the sauna, I do it daily. I just cannot live without that now, that is where I feel my heavy emotions get discharged and my brain clears from psychological stress. It's a small discomfort to exchange for the benefits I feel. Even though I hate cold, just like most of the people, but I kind of love it at the same time, because of the after-effect, and I don't have a lot of fats

[Radcliff]

Great idea to do outdoor activities!  I had a similar experience to Birddog.  I started taking lessons for an outdoor activity and started "collecting" contact info for people to do it with, and have joined a group.  This activity had skills I had to learn, so as I learned those skills, I felt better about myself.  Being in the outdoors, mastering new skills, and fellowship with others made a huge difference in my sanity.  Some of the people in your support network may not be directly helping you with your tougher problems, or even know about them.  Some of those people can be people you've met relatively recently who you enjoy activities with.  Being depressed an isolated is a tough problem, but this is a great way to tackle it.

RC

[Dave89]

So just an update. Her aunt got a message on facebook messenger from a psychologist in the hospital where my wife is staying. Since she doesn't speak English, my wife's cousin got in contact and also corrected the medical staff there, that I am a good character, not the bad one she is saying to everyone there   I never know her own family would defend me in face of allegation what she has put forward.

Then her aunt was able to call in and talk to my wife. It is very good news generally, she is back to reality, she likes there, the food, water treatments and so on. And as I know she is taking just one medication for anxiety and to be able to sleep during the night when she wakes up. They want her to stay for another 2-3 weeks and is close to finish working on her diagnosis.

She is paranoid to a large extent, she hates our former religion, doesn't want to see anyone from them. She hates her dad and, yes, me too, she thinks I will have to go to jail Her aunt noticed the way that she talks is similar as it was before she got into hospital. Her aunt tried to correct her thinking that I am the good guy and that I cared for her and she said, "thank you for saying that", it seems it was something that contradicted her distorted view and she took this input. She is still deep in the devaluation phase and has a strong sense of victim mentality. In a way that is good for me, since I can hopefully process the legal separation. Her lawyer is on the way to meet her now, I let her lawyer know that I have a date of 19th of September booked at district magistrate and she will discuss that with my wife and get back to me. When she will come back from this phase she will very likely want to get back to me, so I have to use this "good" time to move on with the paperwork before she sees the reality that I am not an as bad person as to how she believes at this phase.  

But I am very much relieved that she is better.
Now I feel my stress levels are down.

[Birddog]

Really glad things are starting to turn a corner, and nice to have a peacemaker in the family.

[Radcliff]

Like Birddog, I'm glad to hear that others are being helpful.  Keep us posted.

RC

[Dave89]

Update today. She called for the very first time in these 4 months and we had a warm, friendly conversation. She is back in our home country currently with her aunt and is at daytime rehabilitation with, in my opinion, the best doctor team there is! So it cannot be better than that. She is on olanzapine, so she said only today that she feels to have come back from hallucinations she had. She told me, that she had smashed her phone, tablet and talked with shopping packages and more crazy stuff, so it is possible, that besides BPD, bi-polar, she could also have some schizophrenia or similar, but that is up to docs there to evaluate.

I was surprised by how neutral and not extreme our conversation went. She still needs to finish our separation case (I have done all from my behalf already), I let her know what is needed from her and she seemed to be willing to go for it too! I explained why I would like to separate first and divorce after 6 months. Just like a miracle, it made me feel so relieved that she is doing so well. I also told her that I am happy to know that she is in rehabilitation and that I want her to formalize disability benefits and continue working with doctors so to improve her situation.

Lately, my sleep has been troubled with anxiety and I just sleep a few hours a night, maybe now it will improve! I have lost all my old friends, they basically just dumped me because I am not an active Jehovah's Witness anymore. So that is why I feel lonely at times since that was my only family I had before. But I haven't given up on finding new friends that will be just as good and morally clean and genuine people or perhaps even more so. And good things are already happening!

Good day to everyone.

[Stillhopeful4]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the update.  Glad to hear she is agreeable right now.  Hopefully you can get some sleep!

Take care of yourself my friend!

SH4

[Radcliff]

Thanks for the update!  I'm glad to hear that you had a good conversation with her and things are proceeding in a direction that feels healthy for you.

RC

[Dave89]

Thank you SH4 and Radcliff!  

I got another call this morning 6:30. She felt good that I reassured her yesterday to focus on healing right now and not worry about other things. She also feels regret for her actions. Now she got an invitation to District Commissioner regarding my request for legal separation on the 20th of November. She has to come and confirm basically, I have already done it from my side last month. Then after 6 months (mutual) or 12 months (either side), we could finalize the divorce. She asked me if I really wanted to separate, I am a bit afraid of her coming back to reality and realizing that I wasn´t that bad in the end. But she agreed that we cannot live together in the near time. She was quite humble and genuine about things.

So I have to set some boundaries if she will start to call me every day, well, at least she is now in another country   I am trying to let her know about the financial gains as well, so when we separate, she could get more support money from the state. And also that we already live separate, so that is just to confirm it to state as well. Any more ideas?

At least this year I can now stop preparing myself for police interview on her accusations, like last year, haha   things change rapidly with BPD

[Dave89]

She called me again today. Said that she cannot imagine anyone else besides me to live with, in her life. She hopes I don't have anyone else that I have fallen in love with. She sounded genuine and humble, but I said that she should focus on herself since I don't see us together anytime soon. I also said it would not work out for us to meet when she comes to visit the country where I live within less than 10 days, I am not ready for it! I also reminded her that we have to proceed with separation and she said that she will do whatever I feel is good to do.

I also said I will only talk with her not more than twice a week. I said next time I expect her call would be Wednesday and if she would call before I would not pick up the phone. She was okay with that, sort of, or at least she will have to get used to this... Man, this is difficult. She is on hard anti-psychotic medication, I try to show that I care for her in a non-romantic way, being very careful of words I use. But inside I know, this is over... I don't want her back not only after a year but for the rest of my life. I have lost all my feelings for her... I don't believe that she could ever be ready for serious relationships. But I want to have children and a loving family so much! But with my wife, she will always leave me after a few months! This cycle will never ever stop!

Besides all of this, a month ago, I met a girl from another country. We just met randomly being in nature and had a chat. They were two girls traveling actually. It was insane how deep a connection on almost every level it was. Beyond anything, I had experienced. Then I realized that I have to go out and do things for me. I assume nothing will progress of us, but it was just like a lightning strike. She was my type of person in a matter that I even never know existed. Psychologically highly intelligent but gentle, humble and genuine and very physically active.  And working a job I would dream of working... flying planes. And she was exactly the same age as my wife. That was a woman I could really imagine having a family with and raising children. I now working on detaching from her, since this experience was something I never imagined would happen, it struck me emotionally very deeply. I was not looking for anyone else at all! And it just came from nowhere and into a form almost like Messiah, just like perfect ideal what I would like to imitate and learn from. After a week we had another evening and morning together before they left for the USA. They felt amazed just exactly like me. I don't know what to make of it at all! I felt I needed to share this here since I don't have any friends I can trust enough to talk about this. We had texted a bit over the phone, but now from my last message, she hasn't replied for a week. And I decided I would just let it be as it will be, I don't want to force by any means anything. Meanwhile, I have made huge improvements in my own life during this last month, my life has changed dramatically. I have set my goals and are going for them, all the things I want to achieve. I work out a lot, hike a lot and I feel so much more in control of myself. And I feel it's not that I do it because I fell in love with this girl, that would be a very bad motive! But I feel that now since I am putting effort into becoming more better person, good things are happening on more than one level. I don't know how my life will turn out, but I will try to make the best out of it... I want to live for the utmost possible meaningful life. So that I would feel good about myself and how I can change and improve other lives, that is what I crave for. I am also trying to develop myself intellectually in a practical sense. Purpose and meaning is my main research field, but not far from that comes our mental health, nutrition, and healing of various terminal illnesses like cancer, I would like to help people to recover, but even more, I feel I want to witness the transformation that often happens when people go through extremely difficult and challenging life events!

Maybe sounds a bit odd, but this is where I am at now! How crazy!

[Dave89]

The last message I wrote to this girl can be considered vulnerable because I shared some of my marriage events that took place. And I also mentioned that I am feeling insecure and anxious after the relationships I had. At first, I felt, oh no, I just spoiled my chance to get to know her. But now I came to realize, if in our lives anything is meant to be, it will be, despite our imperfections and not being perfect all the time. If that is something the other person can't accept than he/she is not your right partner anyway. So I will just wait and see, maybe thats the end of this adventure, I am actually assuming this will be the most likely outcome, so not to have my fantasies high. I am not that super loving, completely un-selfish and cool person as of yet and I cannot blame myself for that, its a long way there when you haven't been given that from your childhood. I think, if you had really found the right person, he or she should accept you just the way you are currently and sees your potential despite your stupidity. This is a bit off-topic, but it's good I can put my thoughts and feelings out there.

[Radcliff]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings.  It's not uncommon to meet someone as we come out of a relationship who stirs things in us that we have not felt in a long time or perhaps ever.  It can be exciting and lead us to move forward quickly, but if we do so without fully processing the last relationship and understanding how we got into it, we can end up in the same place, or a different bad place.  It takes time to fully process things.  It seems that it always takes longer than we think!  A great book to read is Safe People, by Cloud and Townsend.

RC

[Dave89]

Yes, it is wise to wait and see things stabilise at least a bit, instead of jumping from one bad relationship to another. It was so interesting that I now had strong will to connect with much more psychological stable females than my wife. I don't go look out for someone to rescue anymore. Yes, there is void right now, because having family is my central goal. But now I am doing things to grow and taking my time. Gym, cold treatment, breathing, I just finished a long taxi lessons and started driving, I also got my first flight for PPL license yesterday (my instructor is another nice female, by the way), its a lot of exciting things I want to achieve before seriously tangle myself with someone. And I want to be sure that both me and her (my future wife) will be prepared for respectful and intellectual relationships where both will not play parent/children or other unhealthy roles, but continue to grow and mature together, as it should be the direction before marriage. I don't thing that is a utopian goal, but rather something that is possible to achieve with hard work.

I haven't heard from my wife for more than a week now. She called me Monday, I didn't pick up the phone and we had agreed that she will call Wed, but she didn't. But I am feeling quite detached from her right now, so I don't even think about her a lot, only on few occasions.

I did go over the book you recommended, just the basic principles and noted those that I feel I need to still work on myself to become the version of myself I feel proud of. One of the things I am working currently on is to say only the truth and things that make me strong. That will take me a few years to work on the very least.

Hope you all are doing good!

[Radcliff]

It sounds like you're doing a log of things to take care of yourself and grow.  Great work!  Keep us posted on how things are going with you!

RC