In midst of divorce, with custody issues re: abusive 12-year-old daughter

[Parents! Get help here!]

Hi. I don't know what to expect here, but I am feeling very alone and at sea in dealing with custody issues related to my 12-year-old daughter, whom I will call M. My wife and I are in the midst of a divorce.

M doesn't have a BPD diagnosis, but when I read about the feelings of parents of BPD children, I see myself. She has been prone to rage attacks since she was 4 or 5. I have been the main focus of her hostility for years because I was the more-involved parent (I worked part-time for a couple of years and did most school pickup and dropoff) and also the stricter parent. My wife and I debated on and off when she was younger whether to get her therapy, but we did not do so for fear of stigmatizing her and because we told ourselves she would grow out of it.

About three years ago, after a huge blowup where M raged for hours and wrecked a piece of furniture, we hired a parent coach who does "The Nurtured Heart Approach," which is basically a parenting method that focuses on trying to name and describe good behaviors and ignore bad behaviors while still setting clear limits. I read books and listened to tapes about it and started doing it. It actually seemed to be working: M responded to it, and she was less hostile to me. But my wife wouldn't really do it. So it started becoming yet another weird thing that dad does, and thus yet another prompt for hostility. So I might say, "I see you put away your dishes. That is really thoughtful. I appreciate it." And she would respond with a nasty look or words.

I had been the target of this hostility for so long by then, and I felt like I couldn't take it. I told my wife, "This is killing me. Her hostility to me is killing me. This Nurtured Heart thing was working, but since you aren't doing it, she's being hostile when I do it. I can't take it. I need YOU to do it too, or I can't do it." I also told her that things were so bad for me that I would rather have NO relationship with M than the relationship I was having. This is from a father who did activities with M all the time, and who took a part-time job to be more involved as a father.

My wife didn't do it. M's hostility to me continued, and my wife and my relationship died. Last fall, after another blowup where M raged at me for hours after she refused to go to school and I said "you must go to school," we took M to a therapist. My wife and I had agreed to split up by then, and we wanted M to have some support with that too. We explained to the therapist the history of anger issues. The therapist seemed okay, and the decision to split was a relief. I thought that my relationship with M would improve because I wouldn't be trying to deal with inconsistent, laxer rules from my wife. She could have her rules in her house, and I could have mine.

My wife moved out in January, and we agreed to equal custody: 2 days with me, 2 days with her, and every other weekend with one of us. For the first couple of months, it was in fact an improvement. M and I played video games together, went on some nice outings, and it seemed better.

Then she had a big blowup when I told her to get a bag to take on an outing. She spent hours screaming at me. And unlike past events, which were usually followed with at least an expression of remorse, this one wasn't. She remained hostile and blamed me for her behavior. At her therapy visit that week, I went in with her and brought it up, and she became angry. I was surprised, and I responded with anger (not name-calling, I have never done that, but I was obviously mad). And then her therapist, in front of her, says to me, "It sounds like you are an authoritarian parent." Which (a) isn't true (I set limits, but M is free to question my rules, which aren't that many) and (b) is a crazy thing to say in front of the child.

Over the next two therapy visits in the next four weeks, the therapist dug in on her position that I was the problem, not M. At the first of the two visits, I showed her video I had taken of one of the fights, so she could see I was not being a bully, but was responding calmly in the face of rage and hostility. She didn't really buy it (but it is true; remember that my wife and I BOTH brought M to this therapist with the presenting problem of rage attacks). At the second visit, she brought me in at the end and said, "Here's what M and I discussed. We talked about how she has two options when in conflict: (1) keep the peace or (2) stand up for herself, and we discussed the pros and cons." I couldn't believe it. This is not a kid who needs to be taught to "stand up for herself." This is a kid who flies into a rage and is nasty when she doesn't like what she is told. I responded, "Well, here's the thing. If a kid gets caught for shoplifting and gets in trouble for that, we wouldn't really say he needs to "stand up for himself," right? I mean, that implies that the person hasn't done anything wrong." And M responded with rage, saying something like, "I've been trying to do what you want, and I'm sick of being pushed around. I am done! I am done!"

So here's where I was: I have been the brunt of rage and hostility for years. I brought her to this therapist to help her with that. Instead, the therapist has just reinforced her belief that I am the problem. I think, "This is hopeless. I can't take it. I tried to do something to fix the dynamic, and my wife wouldn't support me. I tried to get her help, and her therapist is doing more harm than good."

I shut down. I don't think I said ten words to M that night. I left her home alone and went browsing for a shotgun to kill myself. I managed not to buy one. That was my achievement for that day. The next day, I didn't try to get her up in the morning for school because I didn't want to fight with her. When I woke up, it was 10 am, and she hadn't gotten up for school. She started to say, "I shouldn't have to go to school. Let me explain." I said, "You don't have to go to school. I'm taking you to your mom's." Her mom wasn't home, but I did it anyway. Then I bought a shotgun, and I spent that day and the next failing to pull the trigger. Ultimately, I realized that it made no sense for me to kill myself for failing as a father, because that would be an even bigger failure. Also, some mindfulness skills from my meditation practice kicked in and helped me feel my experience without the negative thoughts. So just to be clear to the reader: I am NOT currently at risk of suicide. That's done. I recount this just to show where I was at, to give you a picture of the suffering that I have experienced as a parent. While I am responsible for my own feelings, the fact that I felt this way is at least some evidence that the way my daughter treats me is not normal. 

This was a few months ago. Since then, M has been living with my wife. For a few months, my wife was facilitating visits between us on the weekends. But the last two weekends, I haven't seen M, because M refuses to visit with me and my wife won't insist on it. In the meantime, my wife and I and M all met with a "parenting specialist" who was supposed to help us develop an agreed-upon parenting plan so we could do a collaborative divorce. That person basically saw me as a villain and said that M's hostility was normal. We got a referral to a group that is supposed to do "family reunification therapy," and the therapist there again bought this story that I am the villain and there is nothing wrong with M. After they presented their incompetent treatment plan (which described the family environment as "tyrannical"—which is M's story, but which is not true, unless "setting firm limits" is tyranny), I said I would not work with them.

I have made a lot of mistakes. Now that I have begun to learn that people with BPD have abandonment issues, I can see that I have probably responded in the worst possible way to M's outbursts. But I am a loving parent who has been doing his best.

I have identified a therapy center in town that specializes in BPD, and I am going to try to get M and the family help there. My wife agrees to therapy in principle. But I don't think my wife agrees with my assessment of the situation, and although she previously agreed that we should have equal parenting time, she has given M total veto power over whether I visit with her. If M says no, my wife will not insist. And my wife has threatened to start an adversarial divorce, rather than the collaborative one we have been working towards, if we can't get an agreement in place soon.

I don't think I will come out of that well. My daughter is a bright, charming, beautiful girl, and no one is willing to believe that she is basically an abuser. And of course, this means she hasn't been getting the help she needs. I am so worried about her future. She has unmanageable feelings, and when she gets in a rage, she blames the outside world—especially me—for causing it. (We have a neighbor who has reinforced that belief). I know that once she discovers drugs and alcohol (or maybe cutting or sex or an eating disorder), she is going to turn to those outside things to fix her feelings. I have been sober through AA for 19 years, and I have heard enough stories to know what is coming if she doesn't learn to own her feelings and to manage them.

There's more to the story, of course. But I think that my understanding is right. I doubt M would qualify for a BPD diagnosis right now, but her rages and hostility are not developmentally normal, and they have been a problem since she was 4 or 5. But somehow everyone thinks that I'm the problem.

I feel better having shared this. I don't know what I expect in response. But maybe this message board can help me. I have been so alone with this for a long time, and I feel like I keep getting screwed by therapists who are blinded by stereotypes and don't know what an abusive child looks like.

If you read this whole thing, thanks.

[bobolinq]

Hi. I don't know what to expect here, but I am feeling very alone and at sea in dealing with custody issues related to my 12-year-old daughter, whom I will call M. My wife and I are in the midst of a divorce.

M doesn't have a BPD diagnosis, but when I read about the feelings of parents of BPD children, I see myself. She has been prone to rage attacks since she was 4 or 5. I have been the main focus of her hostility for years because I was the more-involved parent (I worked part-time for a couple of years and did most school pickup and dropoff) and also the stricter parent. My wife and I debated on and off when she was younger whether to get her therapy, but we did not do so for fear of stigmatizing her and because we told ourselves she would grow out of it.

About three years ago, after a huge blowup where M raged for hours and wrecked a piece of furniture, we hired a parent coach who does "The Nurtured Heart Approach," which is basically a parenting method that focuses on trying to name and describe good behaviors and ignore bad behaviors while still setting clear limits. I read books and listened to tapes about it and started doing it. It actually seemed to be working: M responded to it, and she was less hostile to me. But my wife wouldn't really do it. So it started becoming yet another weird thing that dad does, and thus yet another prompt for hostility. So I might say, "I see you put away your dishes. That is really thoughtful. I appreciate it." And she would respond with a nasty look or words.

I had been the target of this hostility for so long by then, and I felt like I couldn't take it. I told my wife, "This is killing me. Her hostility to me is killing me. This Nurtured Heart thing was working, but since you aren't doing it, she's being hostile when I do it. I can't take it. I need YOU to do it too, or I can't do it." I also told her that things were so bad for me that I would rather have NO relationship with M than the relationship I was having. This is from a father who did activities with M all the time, and who took a part-time job to be more involved as a father.

My wife didn't do it. M's hostility to me continued, and my wife and my relationship died. Last fall, after another blowup where M raged at me for hours after she refused to go to school and I said "you must go to school," we took M to a therapist. My wife and I had agreed to split up by then, and we wanted M to have some support with that too. We explained to the therapist the history of anger issues. The therapist seemed okay, and the decision to split was a relief. I thought that my relationship with M would improve because I wouldn't be trying to deal with inconsistent, laxer rules from my wife. She could have her rules in her house, and I could have mine.

My wife moved out in January, and we agreed to equal custody: 2 days with me, 2 days with her, and every other weekend with one of us. For the first couple of months, it was in fact an improvement. M and I played video games together, went on some nice outings, and it seemed better.

Then she had a big blowup when I told her to get a bag to take on an outing. She spent hours screaming at me. And unlike past events, which were usually followed with at least an expression of remorse, this one wasn't. She remained hostile and blamed me for her behavior. At her therapy visit that week, I went in with her and brought it up, and she became angry. I was surprised, and I responded with anger (not name-calling, I have never done that, but I was obviously mad). And then her therapist, in front of her, says to me, "It sounds like you are an authoritarian parent." Which (a) isn't true (I set limits, but M is free to question my rules, which aren't that many) and (b) is a crazy thing to say in front of the child.

Over the next two therapy visits in the next four weeks, the therapist dug in on her position that I was the problem, not M. At the first of the two visits, I showed her video I had taken of one of the fights, so she could see I was not being a bully, but was responding calmly in the face of rage and hostility. She didn't really buy it (but it is true; remember that my wife and I BOTH brought M to this therapist with the presenting problem of rage attacks). At the second visit, she brought me in at the end and said, "Here's what M and I discussed. We talked about how she has two options when in conflict: (1) keep the peace or (2) stand up for herself, and we discussed the pros and cons." I couldn't believe it. This is not a kid who needs to be taught to "stand up for herself." This is a kid who flies into a rage and is nasty when she doesn't like what she is told. I responded, "Well, here's the thing. If a kid gets caught for shoplifting and gets in trouble for that, we wouldn't really say he needs to "stand up for himself," right? I mean, that implies that the person hasn't done anything wrong." And M responded with rage, saying something like, "I've been trying to do what you want, and I'm sick of being pushed around. I am done! I am done!"

So here's where I was: I have been the brunt of rage and hostility for years. I brought her to this therapist to help her with that. Instead, the therapist has just reinforced her belief that I am the problem. I think, "This is hopeless. I can't take it. I tried to do something to fix the dynamic, and my wife wouldn't support me. I tried to get her help, and her therapist is doing more harm than good."

I shut down. I don't think I said ten words to M that night. I left her home alone and went browsing for a shotgun to kill myself. I managed not to buy one. That was my achievement for that day. The next day, I didn't try to get her up in the morning for school because I didn't want to fight with her. When I woke up, it was 10 am, and she hadn't gotten up for school. She started to say, "I shouldn't have to go to school. Let me explain." I said, "You don't have to go to school. I'm taking you to your mom's." Her mom wasn't home, but I did it anyway. Then I bought a shotgun, and I spent that day and the next failing to pull the trigger. Ultimately, I realized that it made no sense for me to kill myself for failing as a father, because that would be an even bigger failure. Also, some mindfulness skills from my meditation practice kicked in and helped me feel my experience without the negative thoughts. So just to be clear to the reader: I am NOT currently at risk of suicide. That's done. I recount this just to show where I was at, to give you a picture of the suffering that I have experienced as a parent. While I am responsible for my own feelings, the fact that I felt this way is at least some evidence that the way my daughter treats me is not normal. 

This was a few months ago. Since then, M has been living with my wife. For a few months, my wife was facilitating visits between us on the weekends. But the last two weekends, I haven't seen M, because M refuses to visit with me and my wife won't insist on it. In the meantime, my wife and I and M all met with a "parenting specialist" who was supposed to help us develop an agreed-upon parenting plan so we could do a collaborative divorce. That person basically saw me as a villain and said that M's hostility was normal. We got a referral to a group that is supposed to do "family reunification therapy," and the therapist there again bought this story that I am the villain and there is nothing wrong with M. After they presented their incompetent treatment plan (which described the family environment as "tyrannical"—which is M's story, but which is not true, unless "setting firm limits" is tyranny), I said I would not work with them.

I have made a lot of mistakes. Now that I have begun to learn that people with BPD have abandonment issues, I can see that I have probably responded in the worst possible way to M's outbursts. But I am a loving parent who has been doing his best.

I have identified a therapy center in town that specializes in BPD, and I am going to try to get M and the family help there. My wife agrees to therapy in principle. But I don't think my wife agrees with my assessment of the situation, and although she previously agreed that we should have equal parenting time, she has given M total veto power over whether I visit with her. If M says no, my wife will not insist. And my wife has threatened to start an adversarial divorce, rather than the collaborative one we have been working towards, if we can't get an agreement in place soon.

I don't think I will come out of that well. My daughter is a bright, charming, beautiful girl, and no one is willing to believe that she is basically an abuser. And of course, this means she hasn't been getting the help she needs. I am so worried about her future. She has unmanageable feelings, and when she gets in a rage, she blames the outside world—especially me—for causing it. (We have a neighbor who has reinforced that belief). I know that once she discovers drugs and alcohol (or maybe cutting or sex or an eating disorder), she is going to turn to those outside things to fix her feelings. I have been sober through AA for 19 years, and I have heard enough stories to know what is coming if she doesn't learn to own her feelings and to manage them.

There's more to the story, of course. But I think that my understanding is right. I doubt M would qualify for a BPD diagnosis right now, but her rages and hostility are not developmentally normal, and they have been a problem since she was 4 or 5. But somehow everyone thinks that I'm the problem.

I feel better having shared this. I don't know what I expect in response. But maybe this message board can help me. I have been so alone with this for a long time, and I feel like I keep getting screwed by therapists who are blinded by stereotypes and don't know what an abusive child looks like.

If you read this whole thing, thanks.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[No-One]

Hi bobolinq:
I'm so sorry about your situation with your daughter.  You have been through a lot.  Congrats on 19 years of sobriety.  I can hear that you are under a lot of stress.  It could be helpful for you to find your own personal therapist,  that has the background and experience to understand you situation with your daughter and to offer you support and helpful guidance. 

What credentials and experience did the therapist have, that your wife and daughter have seen in the past? 

M doesn't have a BPD diagnosis, but when I read about the feelings of parents of BPD children, I see myself. She has been prone to rage attacks since she was 4 or 5. I have been the main focus of her hostility for years because I was the more-involved parent (I worked part-time for a couple of years and did most school pickup and dropoff) and also the stricter parent. My wife and I debated on and off when she was younger whether to get her therapy, but we did not do so for fear of stigmatizing her and because we told ourselves she would grow out of it.

The Nurtured Heart Approach is supposed to include three components:

1.  Refusing to energize negativity
2.  Super-energizing success
3.  Establishing and implementing clear limits and consequences

It appears to be a repackaging of "reward and concequences".  I'm thinking that there can be a problem if only 1 & 2 are used, without #3 - "Establishing and implementing clear limits and consequences".

One thing that may be missing is that the "Nurtured Heart Approach" doesn't appear to offer guidance with coping skills.  Perhaps a new approach could be to add some DBT Training (therapy centered around coping skills).  You can learn about DBT at the following website: www.dbtselfhelp.com/

It could be helpful for you to visit the DBT self-help website and check out some of the coping skills tutorials.  The coping skills taught there can be valuable for anyone.

Therapists typically won't diagnose BPD in anyone until they are at least 18 years old.  So, your best strategy would likely be to don't use the label of "BPD" and focus on getting your daughter help with gaining coping skills to handle her anger and dysregulation of emotions.

You are human and it's understandable that you can lose your temper occasionally.  Refusing to energize negativity can be good tool to use with someone with BPD traits.  If you and your wife don't agree on mutually clear limits and consequences for bad behaviors, then that can definitely be a problem.

Perhaps "limits and consequences" are something to discuss.  If the current therapist for you daughter, isn't supporting that part of the process, perhaps the current therapist isn't the right one.  Perhaps you might fair better with promoting the therapy center you found, that specializes in BPD, if you promote it to your wife, based on the experience they have with coping skills for emotional dysregulation, you might have an easier time convincing her.  Focus on your daughter learning ways to manage her emotions and deal with behaviors.  Since you won't likely get anyone to diagnose your daughter with BPD, best to stay with behaviors.  If you employ rewards and consequences, and the person with emotional dysregulation doesn't know any tools to manage anger, anxiety and emotional dysregulation, you won't get the success you desire (until she learns some coping skills).

So Maybe a combination of approaches, The Nurtured Heart with a mix of DBT skills.  Check out the DBTselfhelp website and then post about what you think.

[bobolinq]

Thanks for the reply, No-One. I agree that the Nurtured Heart Approach is not adequate for my daughter. It's just part of the history. My wife refused to do number 2, super-energizing success. It meant that when I did it, I was met with hostility. I couldn't take it, so I stopped doing it. The problem wasn't so much a lack of clear limits. The issue of consequences is tougher, and I think it's something the Nurtured Heart Approach doesn't give great guidance on (punishment = bad but consequences = good, but it's hard to distinguish the two often). But really where it was working for me was numbers 1 and 2, and my wife wouldn't super-energize success.

The therapy center I am looking at specializes in DBT, and I do plan to get myself an individual therapist there. I think I have underestimated my own need for support. As I am coming around to seeing the severity of my daughter's behavior, I am taking more seriously my own needs. I appreciate the reference to the DBT Self Help site. It has a lot of useful material.

My daughter is not going to the therapist I mentioned. I believe that the therapist was doing more harm than good so I stopped sending her. I am hoping to get my daughter a therapist at the center that focuses on BPD. I don't care if she gets a diagnosis, and I think the DBT skills are obviously useful to anyone. In fact, I have practiced many of them (I have a Zen meditation practice going back many years, and that practice saved my life).

So I have a plan. I just hope I can get it moving before my wife puts a bigger wrench in it. My wife is a good person, but she is totally conflict-avoidant, and her primary coping skills are denial and avoidance. I haven't seen my daughter for 10 days, and my wife is only sporadically responding to my emails. I'm just in a very hard spot.

Again, thanks for the response. It helps to feel understood.

[No-One]

Bobolinq:
You might want to do some reading and posting on the boards for "Co-Parenting" and then the "Family Law" section.  It can be challenging to co-parent, even when a child doesn't have emotional issues.  The Family Law section could be helpful as you navigate issues with custody and visitations.

I don't care if she gets a diagnosis, and I think the DBT skills are obviously useful to anyone. In fact, I have practiced many of them (I have a Zen meditation practice going back many years, and that practice saved my life).

Just wondering if you have ever shared any meditation information with your daughter?  If Zen meditation doesn't suit her, there are many different types of meditation and lots of YouTube video to help learn.  Some guided meditations can be easy to start with and can help with destressing.  Maybe it could be a father and daughter adventure to look at the different types of meditation and find something that suits your daughter.  Perhaps your daughter could earn some type of reward for certain levels of progress with meditation?