How to deal with anxiety?

[songbirdtwo]

Hello… I haven’t been here in a while but I was wondering if those of you who have a BPD parent have to deal with them unloading on you? Using you as their therapist? Today my mom sent me a letter with many family issues that are personal and began by saying that both her and my dad are very depressed.  My mom has bpd and my dad is totally enmeshed. Both are in their early 80s. This is really causing me so much anxiety because there is literally nothing I can do about these particular situations. Most of this is literally brought on by my mothers behaviors. I have constant anxiety from always feeling helpless in these situations. My mother has been doing this to me for years. She seems to think my “job” And duty as her daughter Is to be her sounding board. I live very far away from her but this has been affecting my health and emotional wellness for years.

Not sure what to do...

[JNChell]

Hey, there! Welcome back. Anxiety is rough. Always poking its head. pwBPD seem to need someone to dump their bad feelings on because they’re feeling bad about themselves. Something inside of them doesn’t allow them to accept and process their bad feelings. Do you feel like she might be dumping her feelings on you? Do you feel obligated to that?

[songbirdtwo]

Yes, definitely. I feel like she looks to me to make her feel better even though I have tried to stop enabling this behavior by not responding or responding with a very short sentence but this is draining.

[JNChell]

Is it kind of like no matter what you say, she comes back with a response that makes you feel obligated to respond to her?

[songbirdtwo]

Yes...and it gets into this long winded, frustrating back and forth...She never takes my advice...this is why I've gone to short curt answers or sometimes not answering at all.

[JNChell]

Did you learn about boundaries and communication skills when you were here before? I hope that I’m not throwing too much at you. Sometimes, I’m very to the point.

My parents have both passed and I didn’t figure out what was going on with them until years after.

The conversations are stressing you out. You think about them when the talk is over and you don’t feel good.

What do you want to see happen? No contact? Contact that gives you control of the conversation? Or, limited contact? You set a schedule and let your mom know when you’re available to talk. You control your time.

[songbirdtwo]

We have been through that a few times...nc for a year or so.  I have worked hard at setting boundaries but she doesn't care.  This just keeps cycling.  I cannot go nc again at this point in their lives.  The guilt would eat me up.  I'm not sure what I'm looking for but maybe just others who are in similar circumstances...?

[Methuen]

My mom one claimed that a counsellor told her the best person to help her was her daughter.

I didn’t for a minute believe that.  She was playing me. I could tell just by how she looked at me - the sidelong glance.

Mom kept repeating the message to me over and over.  I tried ignoring it.  That didn’t work.  Eventually I told her I wasn’t qualified to give that kind of advice, and suggested she see a different counselor or her Dr.  Then I used the broken record technique.  Eventually the cycle stopped.  Can’t remember how.  Basically it’s simple, we’re not trained therapists, and even trained therapists don’t treat their own family.  Support yes, treat no.

[Goldcrest]

Hello! I hear you. I am in a similar situation with my parents and it is really really hard. I too am seen as responsible for them, particularly my mother who is sick with cancer. I am trying boundaries with her at the moment but she doesn't get it and will say things like "oh yes I'm not allowed to talk to you tomorrow". All I can say is It's hard. We are hard wired to respond to them and to feel guilty for having our own needs. My dad will frequently make me feel like I don't deserve to be happy/rested/free while mum is sick. It is like cancer trumps everything.

With the support and advice of a few people on here I am sticking to a boundary of only speaking to my mother every other day no matter how awful I feel asserting that boundary. I text her on the day off and she can leave me a message on my answer phone. The day off gives me time to bring my stress arousal down after speaking to her. I need to do this otherwise I will become further anxious and withdrawn. So think about what you need, what you are able to manage without being triggered? Even if you start with a boundary or assertion that is small. When I feel guilty I have to remind myself that nothing I do for them would ever be enough. I could give them everything but it still won't help.

[songbirdtwo]

Goldcrest, I am very sorry for your situation. Her cancer really compounds the situation. That must be so hard.

The thing about my mom is if I do not respond to her the way she thinks I should she reaches at me through her email, with insulting comments. I am not allowed to have my own feelings and I have never been allowed to have feelings that were different than hers. She fluctuates from being a “waif” and a “queen”. There have been so many times in my life when I am so worried about her by an email she sent me. When I was younger I almost couldn’t function because I was so worried but then would find out later that she went to the mall and was fine and I was sitting home worrying. He really uses a lot to try to control me. I guess it worked when I was younger. I never really felt like I had a mom that had my best interest at heart when it conflicted with something she needed

[songbirdtwo]

Methuen, When you set boundaries with your mother does she get really upset with you. According to my mother I am not allowed to set any boundaries. I basically have no rights if my feelings interfere with how she thinks I should feel… And support her.

[Methuen]

I am trying boundaries with her at the moment but she doesn't get it and will say things like "oh yes I'm not allowed to talk to you tomorrow".

What would happen if you ignored this kind of comment, or didn’t respond to it at all (including text or email)?  
  I used to justify myself after that kind of comment, but I don’t anymore.  Her behavior is better for it.
  I have found that by limiting my contact, my mom treats me better.  Too much contact makes me her slave, and since nothing I do is enough anyway, she has slowly learned to manage her behavior better, or I suddenly have to leave.

We honestly have a much better relationship now since I only see her once or twice a week.

Methuen, When you set boundaries with your mother does she get really upset with you. According to my mother I am not allowed to set any boundaries. I basically have no rights if my feelings interfere with how she thinks I should feel… And support her.

Yes my mother pushed back when I started setting boundaries.  It was rough.  That is called an extinction burst.  But if you stick with it and see it through, it gets better because they learn to manage their behavior around you thanks to your boundaries.  Without boundaries their behavior will never change.
  Your mom doesn’t want you to set boundaries because it makes her feel like she’s not in control of you.  To take back your life, you have a right to set your own boundaries.

I did it.  You can do it too.  

[Panda39]

My first thought was if your parents are saying they are depressed (I know there are clearly other problems) then perhaps that is a good opportunity to get them in to Therapy.  Might help with depression and might help with other issues.

You might just say something like... "I'm sorry you are feeling depressed, it sounds like you could use some therapy.  Have you talked with your Primary Care doctor they maybe able to refer you to someone."

Also, (just like above) I would try and put the responsibility of their problems back on them.  They are elderly and may need some assistance but when it is something they can do I would put it back on them to do it. They are still adults.

Panda39 

[delia211]

Songbird, I can relate to you.  My mother put me into the role of therapist when I was a child, and it continued into my adulthood with her even interrupting my work day to unload her severe moods and suicidal thoughts onto me.  Though I used to drop what I was doing to listen to her, I eventually came to a point where I told her that I loved her and was sorry for what she was going through but that I did not have the tools to help her because I am not a mental health professional and not to reach out to me with these issues unless she needed me to call emergency services for her.  She of course did not like that and continued to try, but I stood firm, and she eventually gave up after realizing she was not going to get what she wanted from me.  I don't know if this was the best or ideal means of handling this but I hope my experience can help you.  It is certainly unfair for your mother to put you in this position.  Ultimately I think it comes down to setting boundaries and sticking to them, though I definitely understand how hard that is, and I imagine even more so with an elderly parent with health struggles.  Wishing you luck and strength in light of this tough situation.

[IvyB]

I feel like I'm in a similar boat and agree with all the advice on here. I have a uBPD single mom who is difficult on the best of days and during the pandemic and in quarantine (by herself) is impossible. Things that help me:
- Boundaries. I see her once a month and call every other day, always scheduled. It used to be a lot more frequent and I've scaled it back, she's complained ("what did you do yesterday? Since you were too busy to call" or I get a text with 10 crying emojis) and I ignore those comments, typically she moves on.
It's a bottomless pit, if I see her for a few hours, she says it's too short can we do a day next time, if I see her for a day, she asks for a weekend next time. I know she'll never be happy, so I've tried to figure out how much contact I can handle.
When I call/see her, it's almost like I have a sand clock in my head and I'm watching it run down, counting down the minutes till I can hang up/leave. Good calls/visits are rare.
- Scheduled calls/visits. I don't pick up the phone if I'm not in the right headspace or I don't call her those days. I realize it takes a special level of patience to deal with her and I know when I don't have it.
- Keep my life private. I'm very selective with what I share, since she'll nag me endlessly with her advice/feedback. I get that it's her low self-esteem and that she needs to feel useful (constantly even if she has nothing useful to contribute), but it drives me up the wall and I lose patience. I.e. I told her my husband and I are buying a couch and she sent dozens of emails with various couches, even after we already had our new couch in our living room.
- No response. I've learned that a BPD escalates from 0 to 60 in seconds (in terms of anger/frustration) and stays there longer. If she gets into a rant, I have 2 options: 1) change subject ASAP (ask about her dog) 2) say "poor you" & change subject. Arguing or rationalizing is pointless. She says plenty of things I disagree with, but not worth my time to argue. Sometimes she says things to get a rise out of me. On one hand it gives me more peace to let it go (deep breaths!), on the other, her level of crazy-talk seems to be increasing.
- Let go. I've stopped trying to change her bad habits or influence her. I.e. she complains she is overweight and I know she doesnt exercise or eat healthy. I've learned there is nothing I can do to change this.
In summary, I've tried to reduce contact, reduce emotional attachment and it's helped. Still plenty of difficult days with her, but I'm in a better place.

[songbirdtwo]

Delia211...What is so hard is that my mom doesn't like for me to tell her no.  She will go into a rage and pretty much make me feel like I'm wrong in my response to her.  She doesn't just persist, she condemns me and tells me that I should be there for her.  She really knows how to lay it on me.  This happens every time I try to set boundaries with her.  Constant criticism as to how a daughter should be there for her mother, etc...So much rage...

[songbirdtwo]

IvyB

" if I see her for a few hours, she says it's too short can we do a day next time, if I see her for a day, she asks for a weekend next time. I know she'll never be happy, so I've tried to figure out how much contact I can handle."

This is exactly what I used to get when I lived near her... I understand.  It got to the point where she asked me to move back in...(insert eye roll here).  She is constantly comparing our relationship to other mothers/daughters.  She is always bringing up what other daughters do for their mothers...constantly.  It's really draining.  I just ignore that kind of talk but it never stops.

After reading the rest of your post I can see that your mom and my mom were separated at birth.  I just keep shaking my head while reading...

[IvyB]

Songbird, I feel your pain!
Instead of a flat no, could you postpone or negotiate or not answer? I.e. if my mom asks to visit, I see for how long I can push it back. Other answers that seem to work - "I don't know, I need to think about it, I need to check my schedule, I need to talk to my husband, I need to see how my dog feels about it...etc."
If my uBPD mom is mean or goes into rage, I leave. My therapist says that my mom is like a permanent teenager, constantly testing my boundaries and that I need to be consistent. Giving in to her temper tantrums is like giving into a toddler screaming in the middle of a supermarket because they didn't get a cupcake, it enforces future bad behaviors. I've tried (sometimes unsuccessfully) to remove myself from the situation and keep my distance for a few days after these incidents. At the end of the day, she needs me more than I need her, so she'll get over it and be "nice" again.
The comparisons you mentioned are hard, I get that too. I get why my mom does it, she needs to constantly feel that she has the best daughter so she can show off and for her own (dangerously low) self esteem. She needs constant attention/reassurance to feel good about herself. It does not make it any less annoying. I try to change the subject pretending like I didn't notice, I've done it so many times, sometimes I feel like I don't notice.
What I keep telling myself is that she is how she is mentally unwell/unstable/uBPD...etc and I can't change *any* of it. I can't even get her to not give my mini poodle treats that are meant for a Great Dane. All I can do is try to focus on what I can control to protect myself, set boundaries and limit contact for my mental health.

[Methuen]

My therapist says that my mom is like a permanent teenager, constantly testing my boundaries and that I need to be consistent. Giving in to her temper tantrums is like giving into a toddler screaming in the middle of a supermarket because they didn't get a cupcake, it enforces future bad behaviors.

Yes to this!  I've taken to writing on this board that for me, managing my relationship with my mom is kind of like training kids and dogs (meant in the kindest way possible), because we are "training" them by setting boundaries.  When we do this, we also use positive and negative reinforcement.  eg.  If the visit with mom is going well, I might also say "Gee you look nice today mom" (positive reinforcement) at which point she straightens her back and perks up and says "do I?" with a smile on her face.  She thrives on attention right?  If mom is being mean, I'll say "I have to go now" (negative reinforcement) so that she associates treating me badly with me leaving, and learn the pattern that when she treats me like that, I become not available.

I've tried to remove myself from the situation and keep my distance for a few days after these incidents. At the end of the day, she needs me more than I need her, so she'll get over it and be "nice" again.

Yes to this too.  My mom definitely needs me more than I need her.  I think this is why low contact (about 2X per week) is working so well for me.  She doesn't see me so much that she can afford to abuse me, but she also sees me enough to not feel abandoned.  The trick is to find that equilibrium that works for both the pwBPD, and us.  The equilibrium will be different for everyone of us on this board.  For some there can be no equilibrium, because the only way to feel safe, is to go NC completely.  To get to my equilibrium, I had to survive an epic crisis, and then I really had to use boundaries consistently for a long time.  I am also very aware how fragile my 84 yr old mom is, and I know that this equilibrium is temporary (until her next fall).  

What I keep telling myself is that she is how she is mentally unwell/unstable/uBPD...etc and I can't change *any* of it.  All I can do is try to focus on what I can control to protect myself, set boundaries and limit contact for my mental health.

Yes yes yes.  

This is exactly what I used to get when I lived near her... I understand.  It got to the point where she asked me to move back in...(insert eye roll here).  She is constantly comparing our relationship to other mothers/daughters.  She is always bringing up what other daughters do for their mothers...constantly.  I just ignore that kind of talk but it never stops.  

The similarities within pwBPD are uncanny.  So my mom does this ALL the time.  Tells me how WELL ________(name) cares for their mother.  Or how _______(name) takes such good care of their mother and moved her in to live with them. Like IvyB, I ignore ALL those comments.  I change the subject.  When she started that particular behavior some years ago, those comments REALLY bothered me a LOT.  I used to STEW over them.  But I think with radical acceptance of her BPD and just accepting her as she is, and also managing my contact time with her, those comments just roll off my back like raindrops now.  They don't bother me anymore, because I know its her disease saying that stuff.

What is so hard is that my mom doesn't like for me to tell her no.  She will go into a rage and pretty much make me feel like I'm wrong in my response to her.  She doesn't just persist, she condemns me and tells me that I should be there for her.  She really knows how to lay it on me.  This happens every time I try to set boundaries with her.  Constant criticism as to how a daughter should be there for her mother, etc...So much rage...

I'm thinking that maybe she keeps behaving like this because it's working for her.  I'm wondering if there is there anything you could do differently to break this cycle?    I used to JADE when my mom did that to me.  Then I learned that JADEing doesn't work, and starting telling her outright that saying those things were hurtful and destructive and I was leaving if she was going to treat me like that.  Then I left.  After a number of those sessions, and finding our equilibrium, she hasn't done that to me for maybe 7 months now.  Wow, right?  Different strategies will work for different people.  I'm not saying that because this worked for me it will work for you.  Heck, maybe she would get worse.  Still, there's no way I would stand and listen to her attack me anymore.  As long as I was listening, my mom wouldn't stop attacking.