Scared for my grandson

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My son is in the middle of a custody battle with a person diagnosed with BPD.  Her mother had it as well and committed suicide after screwing up 4 children's lives.  I don't want my grandson to suffer.  I am a social worker and cannot get the court, attorney, or the Department of Human Resources to understand my extreme concern for my grandson.  We are still waiting for a decision, but I am afraid it will be joint custody and that scares me.  I have been a sw for over 25 years and have called every advocacy agency I can think of and cannot get help.  The reason the custody case started is because she was arrested for domestic violence against my son and in front of my grandson and the court does not even put any concern on that.  She has tried to commit suicide 5 times in her 27 years and cannot have anything to do with her other son who is 9.  Please help if you have any advise for me.

[jaymed4riverkai]

My son is in the middle of a custody battle with a person diagnosed with BPD.  Her mother had it as well and committed suicide after screwing up 4 children's lives.  I don't want my grandson to suffer.  I am a social worker and cannot get the court, attorney, or the Department of Human Resources to understand my extreme concern for my grandson.  We are still waiting for a decision, but I am afraid it will be joint custody and that scares me.  I have been a sw for over 25 years and have called every advocacy agency I can think of and cannot get help.  The reason the custody case started is because she was arrested for domestic violence against my son and in front of my grandson and the court does not even put any concern on that.  She has tried to commit suicide 5 times in her 27 years and cannot have anything to do with her other son who is 9.  Please help if you have any advise for me.

[Thunderstruck]

Hi jaymed4riverkai 

That sounds like a very worrisome situation for you. 

A lot of us have been dealing with BPD co-parents (in my situation I am the stepmom and my step-daughter's mom is an undiagnosed BPD) and we know how damaging to children the situation can be, and it often feels like the courts don't understand the graveness of the situation.

What did your son ask for in court? What did the BPDmom ask for?

Has CPS gotten involved? Domestic Violence in front of a child is child abuse. Also attempting to commit suicide, or even threatening to try, in front of a child is child abuse. If any of those happen then the abuse should be reported right away.

[Thunderstruck]

Also, how old is your grandson?

[faithlady007]

Hi jaymed4riverkai

Sorry you are having to go through this. Sorry for us all. I am like Thunderstruck(I am the stepmom and my step-daughter's mom is an undiagnosed BPD) and so is StepDaughter 32yr in my case. I think we may be headed towards some similarity.

Stay strong. Can she be declared unfit?  Can he highlight the reasons she could be declared so(or at least documentation that would support the facts that he should have primary custody). Habitual neglect, abuse, not providing basic needs etc are some reasons.

Is there any school documentation or people that would write or give witness statements about gs being affected emotionally, intellectually, etc. by her. 

Also who would keep gs whenever she would be recuping from suicide attempts?  Where was your gs when she was making attempts?

My SD just landed on our door two days ago w 4 children(has been in 2 shelters, a failed relocate out of state & BPD mom's since middle of Feb). BPD mom put her out bec her "fiance" is moving in from Nepal.

Just took pics of 11 month old who to my husband and me look full of bluish bruises. Her whole back.

She was threatened with foster care by cps 1 1/2 month ago bec kids witnessed domestic violence w her live in BF. She is mean as a snake to her kids. But has over affection towards 11 month old. And next to none for other kids(3, 7, 8).

My husband and I get a chance to see up close and personal(she's lazy, unkempt, short fused) why her life is so jacked up bec according to her none of it is her fault. Ever.

[ForeverDad]

What is their parenting schedule like?  If your son has majority or equal time, then it won't be as hard for him to become the Primary Parent and Residential Parent for School Purposes.

A few general observations... .

I began my separation and divorce with a verbal Threat of DV case (my then-spouse was found not guilty because she didn't have a weapon in her hands and therefore not an "imminent" threat) but when we were over in domestic/family court the magistrate essentially ignored the other pending case.  His one question was concerning work schedules and she walked out with a very favorable temp order.  Eventually the 2 year divorce ended with a less unfair order but it became clear the court preferred to ignore adult misbehaviors as being related to parenting behaviors, at least in the early years.  Why there's such a huge disconnect between adult behaviors and parenting behaviors, a bad adult being an okay parent, IDK, but we have to deal with that apparent perspective.

That she has a history of suicide attempts (some suicide threats can turn out to actually be control or manipulation attempts) and has lost one of her children is concerning, hopefully the court isn't ignoring that.

Is it possible that she hasn't yet done something 'actionable' with this child?  Sadly, the bar for being an okay parent is pretty low.  Is it that the court is reluctant to take away custody from her?  By now I'm sure you know the court can view legal custody and parenting schedule as separate issues.  For example, a parent could be limited to supervised visitation and yet still have joint custody.

What joint custody generally means is that both parents have to agree on major issues (medical, school, religion, etc) or else turn to mediation, a parenting coordinator or court to resolve the impasse.  One view is that courts generally don't want a parent to feel cut off as a parent.  So what to do if court wants full custody only for the most extreme issues and incidents?  Well, in most states there's probably in-between options.

Don't "gift away" Tie-breaker status.  While full legal custody is optimal in high conflict cases, Tie-Breaker or Decision-Making are close seconds and easier to get or keep.  While sole custody feels so much better, here's how the concepts work in general terms:

Sole Custody

  Make decisions and inform other parent as appropriate

Decision Making

  Make decisions and inform other parent as appropriate

Tie Breaker

  Ask other parent, if tied then proceed and inform other parent as appropriate

Typical Joint Custody

  If no agreement on a major issue (medical, school, religious, etc) then parents turn to mediation, court, etc.

As you can tell, there's not all that much difference between sole, DM or TB.  The ex can always take things to mediation or court, just as you can.  Of course, sole custody is safer and more likely to withstand sabotage, but many courts are reluctant to award sole custody to one parent, they prefer not to declare a Winner and a Loser.  So DM or TB are more palatable all around, court likes the nonjudgmental middle ground, ex saves face and you get to proceed with minimally sabotaged parenting.

Don't hang your entire strategy on gaining custody.  If your court is reluctant to take that step, make sure the court knows you will work using alternatives.  One of their goals is to find a settlement or decision that will reduce the risk of repeated disputes in court.  Have you considered having a fallback solution, if they nix sole custody, for effective alternatives?

One item which would be helpful if you can't get sole custody... .a way to short circuit repeated obstructions and delays.  So if court and evaluators won't quickly consider Sole Custody, the next best is Decision Making or Tie Breaker status.  Getting DM or TB, if it is an option your court will consider if it nixes SC, may not be a great leap but it would be at least a stepping stone to having better control over your parenting.

Frankly, there is no way to guarantee you won't be back in court again and again.  You are not dealing with a reasonable person who can be reasoned with.  Yes, you can perhaps avoid some conflicts, but not all of them, not when the Ex's agenda is self-centered.  Actually, being reasonable or compliant can be perceived as weakness and that could be likened to waving a red flag in front of a bull.  Your best option in most of these high conflict cases is (1) set your boundaries and (2) seek good court orders as strong and firm as possible.

Do you watch sports?  Usually there are two teams, each struggling to be the winner.  How many do you think won by playing only Defense and no Offense strategies?  Hmm?  As I said, they may be well-intentioned wannabe peacemakers but when neither they nor you are seen by your spouse as having any authority, that is a position lacking strategy and almost surely not successful.  Your spouse thinks he is the authority and his entitled perceptions and slick public vs private behaviors are what has so many fooled.  The reality?  He is not the authority.  The Real Authority is family court or domestic court!  It is there for a reason.  Yes, it is glacially slow and often chooses baby steps rather than real fixes, but it is vastly better than letting your spouse set the game rules.  (Another sports analogy... .Imagine trying to play a game when your opponent changes the game rules, moving the goalpost away any time you get close?)

Speaking of lawyers, did you choose a good one, experienced, proactive, with strategies, able to go to trial and win if necessary?  If yours is a form filer and hand holder, expecting a quick settlement then you do need to return your clueless lawyer for a better one.

Dealing with BPD Strategies 101:

• Don't give up anything you need.



• Don't give up anything the court would likely assign or credit to you.  (The court will be far more helpful than your spouse - if you seek the court's help, guidance and decisions.  :)on't let him intimidate you, guilt you or convince you to lower your expectations, that's how he has slickly manipulated and overwhelmed you in the past.)



• Don't give up or 'gift' away anything - your leverage - without some benefit in return, either tangible or intangible.



• Get multiple legal consultations, ponder the experience, proactive strategies and problem-solving skills and choose a family law attorney that you can trust and work with.



• This is not a time to remain timid, you need to set firm boundaries to protect yourself, your parenting and your children.  You maybe can't do it all at once but at least get a good start.  While you don't want to be reckless you do need to be proactive and assertive.



• Oh, besides having a lawyer and counselor, bounce problems and ideas off peer support such as here too.  And find better local support from supportive family and trusted friends.  Be aware that mutual friends may not turn out to be trusted friends.

[livednlearned]

My son is in the middle of a custody battle with a person diagnosed with BPD.  Her mother had it as well and committed suicide after screwing up 4 children's lives.  I don't want my grandson to suffer.  I am a social worker and cannot get the court, attorney, or the Department of Human Resources to understand my extreme concern for my grandson.  We are still waiting for a decision, but I am afraid it will be joint custody and that scares me.  I have been a sw for over 25 years and have called every advocacy agency I can think of and cannot get help.  The reason the custody case started is because she was arrested for domestic violence against my son and in front of my grandson and the court does not even put any concern on that.  She has tried to commit suicide 5 times in her 27 years and cannot have anything to do with her other son who is 9.  Please help if you have any advise for me.

Hi jaymed4riverkai,

Custody battles are so heartbreaking, and we can often feel helpless.

Has your son read Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy? It's a really helpful book if he (or you) has time to read it during this period of stress. Eddy was a SW like you before he became a family law attorney, so he has two feet in both worlds.

Are you comfortable sharing details about your son's strategy to get full custody (if that is what he is asking for)? We often say here that this is a marathon, not a sprint. Depending on your lawyer, the judge, and depending on your son and his soon-to-be ex wife, a lot can happen in court, both good and bad.

There is a lot of collective wisdom here about what makes high-conflict divorces different than the usual.

Many of us start off with joint custody with the same feelings of fear that you express. Just because you are awarded a decision does not mean that's how it will always be. And, if BPD mom has a history of abandoning/neglecting her oldest child, there is a chance the same can happen. As you know, people with BPD do not handle stress very well, and single parenting is very stressful. It's always possible she will unofficially end up with less time than what the court orders as a way to manage her stress.

Document, document, document. Every time she does not take your grand son, write it on a calendar. Documentation can be very powerful in our cases.