Validating Our Kids

[martillo]

UBPDh (active alcoholic – not lots of alcohol served at kids events…) has been absent from lots of kids school and extracurricular functions – there is always something else more important.  One of the things that initially was so attractive to me about him was his devotion to his son (4 yo when he and I met).  He also described how his parent’s lack of interest and attendance at his activities really bothered him and how he would always be there for his kids and support them in whatever they chose to do – fast forward a few years and – ding-dong!  He has become exactly what he said he would never be – an absentee dad and a parent who gets upset about every activity the kids do – unless it is something that brings him praise – I know now that this is just a manifestation of alcoholism and his probable BPD. 

Question 1 is how to respond to my kids when they are either sad or mad that dad is once again absent?

Example:  last night was our DD11 last softball game for the Spring season – DD11 ask him to come to her game; he said he would be there and then we find out that he went to a “Ducks Unlimited” fund raiser instead which would have been ok except that he has only been to a couple of her games and he has never been to any other “Ducks Unlimited” events.  She was sad and crying on the way home and all I could say is “I know you are sad that Dad wasn’t at your game; it hurts really bad when people say one thing and then do another.”

Our sons get angry when uBPDh talks about their activities like he know what is going on – their take is “people don’t know the real dad; if they did…”  How do I validate and acknowledge their truth?

Question 2 is a little tougher – as our sons (DS21, DS18 and DS14 – all still at home – DSS27 always lived w his mom) have gotten older, H (who uses lots of verbal abuse and physical intimidation to control and manipulate) will “push” sons until they respond by becoming physical with him.  Then he kicks them out and he and I end up in a sparring match because I “rescue” our sons – take them to a hotel, make sure they have clothes or whatever, so they aren’t out on the streets. 

I know 2 are young adult men (18yo graduates high school at end of month) but H has them so enmeshed that as soon as he starts calling their cell phones, they answer and come right home – then H blames me for not supporting him and causing all the problem.  …and rinse, recycle, repeat… not even sure if there is a question – maybe just a vent on this one - ultimately, I know this one won’t be resolved until H has driven sons away and then he will cry because they mistreat him by not being available for him…

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[tired-of-it-all]

BPD or not, your husband is an alcoholic and he is doing what alcoholic's do. 

You handled the situations that you described very well.  With DD11 you stated the truth without being overly critical.  There may be a point that you say to her, "I believe that Dad is an alcoholic.  I am not making excuses for him.  I am simply saying that this is how alcoholics behave."

I strongly recommend the alanon program for you.  It is for families and friends who are affected by someone else's drinking.  We have a saying in alanon:  Try 6 meetings.  If you don't like it we will give you your misery back.  Be aware before you go to alanon, it is a program for you not for the alcoholic.  You cannot control his behavior.  You can only control how it affects you.  Please also know that when one member of the family gets better, it helps the whole family.  It would be nice if your kids would go also.  That, however, is their decision.  You go there to fix you not to fix them either.

I truly feel your pain.  An ongoing support group will work wonders for you and will help you deal with specific issues as they arise.

[martillo]

Thanks, Tired-of-it-all!  I have been attending Alanon for the past 2 years and yes, it helps, a lot!  Kiddos did counseling last summer for dad's alcoholism, so they are aware.  They don't really get it (and lots of time, I don't either!) - I have tried to teach them that they are responsible for themselves and their choices and they don't get to blame others for bad choices ... . so it is hard for them to wrap their brains around ":)ad isn't in control of his own choices"  I feel like I do Step 1 over and over every day!     

The closest Alateen group is about 30 miles away, and not convenient.  DS21 isn't ready for alanon yet - his take is "you don't get to act like an ___hole and blame it on alcohol"  DS18 is the "black" child and has started to really just dislike his dad.  DS14 is trying to stay above the fray.  DD11 comes to meetings with me sometimes, but she hangs out in another room with her ipod.   

The crazy is getting worse though - gotta find some solutions.

[tired-of-it-all]

My kids won't go to alanon.  It is something that I just have to except.  Nevertheless the whole family is better because I rarely get sucked into my wife's mind game anymore.  We are a much more calm and serene family.  As you know, alanon teaches that they will go to the program when they are ready.

I have been in the program 10 years.  My wife behaves better because I finally learned to set boundaries with her.  She is still very sick.  She only hides it better.  The old wife is right under the surface.

I find the worst thing about BPD is the lies.  My wife wouldn't know the truth if it hit her with a 2x4.  That is very frustrating.  BPD, like alcoholism, is a baffling and cunning disease.  My wife and I had a good day together today.  I am therefore attracted to her again.  She will smack me in the back of the head with an emotional brick just as soon as I drop my guard.

What a way to live.

Good luck to you and your kids.

[bpbreakout]

Hi Martillo

Re question 1, if they telling you that "people don't know their real Dad" it sounds like you and you sons are talking openly about the situation, that seems good if they feel able to say things like that you there must be some validation happening anyway so maybe you are doing a bteer job thanyou think.

Re question 2, I have the same dynamic with my d15 and BPDw. BPDw pushes and pushes and pushes until there is a reaction which BPDw then uses as an example of how badly behaved d15 is. I have d15 in counselling. The message I'm trying to get through to d15 is that she needs to learn to walk away when BDw is pushing her buttons and that if she behaves badly (she swears at BPDw and was physical one one occasion a few months ago) it's D15’s choice and I will give her a consequence such as being  grounded for a few days.

It's an impossible no win situation to be the other parent when this is going on. I think d15 feels validated that I listen to her & that I have arranged counselling for her. I think she respects me for giving consequences when she behaves inappropriately towards her mother (BPDw) but of course I get the old "I hate you" routine when a draw a line in the sand. BPDw is angry with me because I don't join forces with her when she is abusive to d15 and I am “unsupportive” whatever I do.

I don’t have all the answers and it's difficult to advise you what to do with older sons as they are young adults. However, I wonder whether it would be a lot better for them to learn how to walk away when their Dad is behaving like a total idiot and pushing them to react. A lot of people would say your sons are putting you in a position when you feel you have to go out of your way to keep them off the streets. I assume you wouldn't be any happier with son’s physical behaviour than husband's. Maybe you could think about setting a limit on it with your sons. Bottom line is that when they grow up they should be responsible for their behaviour regardless of what Dad is doing & obviously very difficult when Dad isn’t teaching that lesson.

It’s a very different dynamic but tFYI, the other thing I'm trying is to call BPDw out when she is winding d15 up. I tried this over dinner about 10 days ago. BPDw was giving d15 a hard time over family dinner so I just said I in front of everyone I thought BPDw was going too far and gave d15 permission to walk away and have dinner in her bedroom which she did. Of course it caused a massive meltdown from BPDw but it’s interesting she went to see her psychiatrist a few days later for the first time in 3-4 months (it’s mean to be at least once a month). She is now is talking about doing a mindfulness course (TBH I’ll believe that when I see it) and has been very reasonable to towards d15 ever since.