Lessons learned, the white knight and acceptance

[arn131arn]

NOT A LEGAL THREAD!

Today was my court date for the RO; it was continued until March 7th. 

The judge ordered I immediately receive visitation with my son starting this weekend.  I will begin getting him every other weekend plus 1 night a week.  Also, I will have 3 days a week where she has to make him available via telephone or Skype!  I was overjoyed in the courtroom; and I started crying while I was in there.  For those of you who don't know my story, it has been 5 months since I've seen my son, and this has been a long day coming.  I am already planning our weekend together.  Hitting baseballs in the cage, going to the Mardi Gras, hanging out late playing the Wii U, and having a fun-filled weekend of bromance... . me and my boy.  It was a small battle won, in what unfortunately feels like will be a long, long war. 

Well, now that the good feelings are out of the way; she showed up with my replacement. I guess this was his way of supporting her through the tough times. Again, she was swinging her hair all around, laughing, and smiling, and just appeared to be so happy.  A facebook image. I guess I was wrong about her eternal bachelor.  Maybe he is in it for the long haul.  If like attracts like, then my thoughts about him being a womanizer who's only in it for the sex or because he has a beautiful woman on his arm must have been dead wrong. He was there as the white knight, the new man in her life that was going to save her. I would be lying if I said it didn't bother me a little, not so much as x mas eve morning when I caught her in the SUV with him; but deep down inside it made me question everything I've learned the past few months.

My sister was with me for support and she said, "He's not at all attractive."

My response, "Thank you for that."

"No, I would tell you, but he's really not at all."  So it's what I and everyone else has always thought, about the money.

Could he be the one that can make her happy?  They are close to 3 months now, and every day that goes by is one day closer to trigger day.  Has she been triggered?  Could he be a man that will NOT trigger her?  Have they been doing things with my son (I've been thinking the whole time that she and him go off without my son [8])?  What if my son likes him?  What if my son likes him more than me?  What if she is NOT BPD and my drinking was all the reasons why our relationship failed?  What if this is NOT a rebound and she's been in an emotional affair with him for longer than I know?

FEAR. 

Damn that 4-letter word. A day I get legal rights to start seeing my son, and I cannot fully enjoy the moment because of her and her new love. Then I start to come to my senses.  I start facing the facts.  I see the dishonesty, the gaslighting, the Triangulation, the need, the abuse, the lack of empathy, the distorted look at reality, and it makes me feel a little better.  Because the lessons that I've learned from all of this is, would I go and support a woman that has a RO or child custody issues after dating her for 10 weeks?  Would I overlook that as a red flag?  Do I still want to be the knight saving the damsel in distress?  Is the relationship I want in the future what I had in the past?  Would I even consider seeing a woman in the future if I knew she was alienating her son from his father (what is my replacement thinking)?  If not, why does this bother me so much?  Ego?  Wanting what you can't have? Or is it just being a human? 

I think it's best to just think of them as already being married.  That when the day comes, maybe, it won't sting as bad.  I believe I am permanantly painted black.  I don't really know, if, after 40+ recycles, I am ready for that.  That maybe reading posts on this board about how other people's EXBPD have contacted them, that somewhere deep in my heart, I would get the same thing, or even hope and yearn that I do.  For what?  Validation. A chance to tell her no chance. An opportunity to show her how good I'm doing without her. That I could abandon her the final time, like she has done to me and our family so many other times.  WHY CAN'T I DO THESE THINGS ON MY OWN?

Acceptance.

It's still hard but I'm getting better, I know it.  I don't think that I have fully accepted that it's over.  How I will begin to do that is beyond me.  Maybe I'm still in denial.  But seeing what I saw today, knowing how much time they spend together; I guess it may have hit me in the face... . When you share so many dreams, hopes, and plans for the future, and you, yourself were completely real in those plans, dreams, and hopes, and you literally bust your ass with work and on your education, to achieve those dreams you shared with someone you love, and seeing them with someone who could make those dreams come true with a stroke of a pen, killed a little part of me today.

But Arn never says die.  Arn never gives up.  Arn always gets back up, dusts his jeans off, jumps back on that bull, and rides.  I'm tough... . today made me even tougher.

... . let me run, got some plans to make.

Peace and I love each and every one of you.

Thank you,

Arn

[myself]

Just want to say congratulations on getting to be able to spend time with your son again. There's no way he's going to like anyone better than you. You're going to see that when you're with him.

[arn131arn]

Just want to say congratulations on getting to be able to spend time with your son again. There's no way he's going to like anyone better than you. You're going to see that when you're with him.

Thanks so much, Myself.  I am very happy right now.  I am loving the fact that I get to have a future with him again.

I can remember early December, I was in the fetal position crying over HER! Not the fact that I have NO access to my son or wasn't able to hang out with little guy everyday; but because this sick, twisted, nightmare of a woman left me.

How f****ed up is that?  Really, I should waste no more tears on this woman, I really shouldn't; but damn it's so hard.

What is wrong with me?

[redbaron5]

Just want to say congratulations on getting to be able to spend time with your son again. There's no way he's going to like anyone better than you. You're going to see that when you're with him.

Thanks so much, Myself.  I am very happy right now.  I am loving the fact that I get to have a future with him again.

I can remember early December, I was in the fetal position crying over HER! Not the fact that I have NO access to my son or wasn't able to hang out with little guy everyday; but because this sick, twisted, nightmare of a woman left me.

How f****ed up is that?  Really, I should waste no more tears on this woman, I really shouldn't; but damn it's so hard.

What is wrong with me?

Nothing, your normal, that's why it hurts. It is what separates us from those who treat is like pawns in a sick game of validation.

[arn131arn]

Thanks, RB.

I know I am human, I know I am not the one with a PD.  I know I am not one of these alien BPD witch vampire scorpions... . I just don't know what color Kool-Aid I drank that makes me want to continue to put her on this pedestal that she doesn't deserve.

I know there is something wrong with me if I stayed in that abuse for 14 years.

[myself]

Wrong? You loved her. You worked on family, marriage, home. The wedding vows you made were probably important to you. You're not a quitter. A man with flaws but a real man. Drinking may have been part of what went wrong, you're finding that out in AA or whatever you're doing to get past that. But was the breakup mostly because of her problems? I think you put your heart into it and that's inspiring. Many of us took abuse because we thought we were strong enough to, and that by doing so it would hold the relationship together. Our calm would ease their storm. Knights can also save themselves.

[16YearBetrayal]

Thank you for the inspiration, Arn! I feel all those same feelings. I appreciated how you expressed them. So happy you can enjoy your son again. Congrats.

[arn131arn]

Thanks, 16.  I am really looking forward to the next few weekends before the next court date.

It's almost surreal.  Looking at her and my replacement today, it was like looking at myself 14 years ago.

A young man, eyes wide as apples, coming into the world, and this beautiful girl all into me.  She would tell me all about how her dad left her mom, and how her ex was a terrible monster, and I vowed to myself, I would never let her feel that way with me... . ever.  I would protect her from the rest of this world that harmed her in her past, I would bring her happiness, peace, and safety.

If it were not for my beautiful son (who, by the way, looks like me ), after 6 911 calls, I wish I would have ran the other way.

This poor sap is successful, made it to the top of his career, and he just has no idea what's about to hit him... .

[ShadowDancer]

Arn,

    Ten weeks of dating does not make a "relationship". It is dating. On the face of it... . IMHO... . for him to squire her to this particular family law proceeding is totally inappropriate and makes him look to me like a total drama dildo. Manly boundaries or even common sense? Whadda twerp! But then again after catching him with another mans wife late at night out in a car... . we already know what he is made of. Puppy pee.

Congratulations on getting time with your boy... . that is where the real you lives. You go man!

[Turkish]

Thanks, 16.  I am really looking forward to the next few weekends before the next court date.

It's almost surreal.  Looking at her and my replacement today, it was like looking at myself 14 years ago.

A young man, eyes wide as apples, coming into the world, and this beautiful girl all into me.  She would tell me all about how her dad left her mom, and how her ex was a terrible monster, and I vowed to myself, I would never let her feel that way with me... . ever.  I would protect her from the rest of this world that harmed her in her past, I would bring her happiness, peace, and safety.

If it were not for my beautiful son (who, by the way, looks like me ), after 6 911 calls, I wish I would have ran the other way.

This poor sap is successful, made it to the top of his career, and he just has no idea what's about to hit him... .

Arn, that's a great way to look at it, and how I look at my replacement. Though I still think he's a total piece of crap, who knows how our Exes spun the story?

I had a huge grin on my face reading your initial post. Congratulations! You are, and will continue to be a great dad!

[winston72]

Hey Arn... . congratulations!  What a wonderful milestone to have achieved with the commencement of visitation with your son.  WooHoo!

Your post is terrific.  There is a lot of courage in that elaboration on fear... . funny how that works, isn't it?

There is something curious and ever so common about how we all (gross generalization on its way!) tend to idealize the "next" relationship of our exes... . and do so in a way that is reminiscent of how we idealized our exes.  Something consistent about the need to idealize and fantasize about some things.  It both elevates the "other" in an unrealistic manner as well as denigrating ourselves.  There seems to be a need to do both.

From my view sitting in the bleachers, there is not anything to admire or fear in this "relationship" between your ex and her "next."  As was pointed out earlier, getting caught at Christmas in a car with another man's wife?  Good grief, Arn... . if you saw this in a cheesy sitcom you would think it was not credible.  And the acting out of normalcy and joy of your ex and him while in court at a custody hearing is totally inappropriate on both of their parts.  Rough territory ahead for that charming couple.  Please wish them gods speed in their journey.

You are your son's father... . his one and only.  You fill a place in his soul and his imagination that cannot be touched by any other man.  Your place of primacy will never be at risk.  

As to feeling twinges of envy, anger, jealousy, loss, sorrow... . they are all appropriate to feel.  This is a tragic loss, the disruption of a marriage and family.  Your marriage and family was precious to you... . it is a deep and painful loss.  The fact that she was not worthy of your love and devotion and was not dedicated to you and the family in the same way means that it is better for all concerned that it ends... . but that does not diminish the magnitude of the loss for you.  Being aware that it is for the best and that she is not worthy, does not diminish the strength of the hopes and dreams that were lost.

You seem to be in a good place, Arn... . with lots of awareness and openness and you face these challenges ahead of you.  

[arn131arn]

Thanks, 16.  I am really looking forward to the next few weekends before the next court date.

It's almost surreal.  Looking at her and my replacement today, it was like looking at myself 14 years ago.

A young man, eyes wide as apples, coming into the world, and this beautiful girl all into me.  She would tell me all about how her dad left her mom, and how her ex was a terrible monster, and I vowed to myself, I would never let her feel that way with me... . ever.  I would protect her from the rest of this world that harmed her in her past, I would bring her happiness, peace, and safety.

If it were not for my beautiful son (who, by the way, looks like me ), after 6 911 calls, I wish I would have ran the other way.

This poor sap is successful, made it to the top of his career, and he just has no idea what's about to hit him... .

Arn, that's a great way to look at it, and how I look at my replacement. Though I still think he's a total piece of crap, who knows how our Exes spun the story?

I had a huge grin on my face reading your initial post. Congratulations! You are, and will continue to be a great dad!

Thanks, SD and Turk... . You guys have been there for me through thick and thin.  It's funny how it's the same old story, the same old song and dance.  I just cannot understand how she, a woman, her, anyone would want to play a victim their entire lives.  I cannot fathom giving up on anything and expecting a pity party from the world.  She is truly the professional victim.  

When I was a kid, I used to run with a group, and we, like allot of boys, loved to fight. We would fist fight in the pool, on the golf course, in our rooms playing Nintendo (yeah, the console where you used to blow in the games to get them to work).  It didn't matter.  And I would literally get my ass kicked... ALLOT!  But I never felt sorry for myself, always got back up and went on with the day.

Maybe that was my weakness here in this relationship... . maybe that was my downfall, that I didn't give up on her, us, the family facade sooner.  Maybe I can take a closer look at that, maybe I shouldn't have believed my mom when she said, "Arn, you can do anything you put your mind to."

She repulses me now. Her attorney (who she got for free from a man hating women's abuse advocacy group) told my attorney they would allow me to see my son at a place where I would pay allot of money and have the Sherrif's office watch us the whole time.  My attorney laughed in her face, called her bluff, and said we will go see the judge.  My brother-n-law said it best at lunch, "WHAT GOOD, SANE WOMAN WANTS THAT FOR HER SON?  WHAT GOOD/ SANE WOMAN WANTS HER SON TO SEE HIS DAD IN A FACILITY LIKE THAT?" A very vindictive, mentally ill, unstable, and dangerous one.  That's the scary thing, 10 more years of this.vv

I know that there are women out there that need those types of services, but my ex is not one of them.  Walt Whitman says it best,

"We were together, I forget the rest."

My sister told me today that I am the smartest person she has ever met in her life, but an absolute dumbass when it comes to my ex.  I really think women can see it better in them then the men.  But I really did have a front row seat today.  I had a trailer to the sequel, and boy did it look like the first one... . Funny, the originals are ALWAYS better than the sequels, right?

[letmeout]

"We were together, I forget the rest."

I love that quote and the longer I am not with my exBPDh the more I can feel it!

[arn131arn]

"We were together, I forget the rest."

I love that quote and the longer I am not with my exBPDh the more I can feel it!

Considering Walt's been dead a while, he would of said it.  Not says it... . anyway I'm not gonna edit it now; but yeah, I say it to myself 100s of times a day

[Surnia]

Hi arn

I am really happy to hear the good news about the court and that you can see your son soon this weekend. This are great news. 

About your other thoughts you had in court: Yes, you are human. In variations I am doing the same - my exh has a gf quite a while. From time to time I get caught by similar thoughts about them. How is she dealing with his nastiness, paranoia? Or is he not behaving like this with her and so on  ... . I don't have a real advice against it. I try to take deep breaths and focus on something else.

[Waifed]

Congratulations on getting your son back!  I know seeing her must have been brutally painful. Unfortunately life can turn out unexpectedly but you are facing it head on. You will recover eventually and will have a great life with someone more stable, caring, and unselfish who will fill your needs.

I promise that your wife will remain the same person she has always been. He will begin triggering her at some point and same cycles that you went through will repeat. As time goes by you will realize that you no longer want the craziness in your life and your feelings for her will fade. I know I fought the feelings of letting her go for a long time because deep down I wanted her to come back. Now I take her for who she is as a person and it is much easier to let her go. Keep fighting the good fight and keep the great attitude. It will accelerate your healing!

[Skip]

The judge ordered I immediately receive visitation with my son starting this weekend.  I will begin getting him every other weekend plus 1 night a week.  Also, I will have 3 days a week where she has to make him available via telephone or Skype!  I was overjoyed in the courtroom; and I started crying while I was in there.

This is good news.

It's still hard but I'm getting better, I know it.  I don't think that I have fully accepted that it's over.  How I will begin to do that is beyond me.  Maybe I'm still in denial.  But seeing what I saw today, knowing how much time they spend together; I guess it may have hit me in the face.

This is hard stuff.  Really hard.

Why did she bring the other man?  There is a big message in that - for now, its "us against you".

So what can you do?  :)on't be defeated by it, man.  Life is like a football game, the clock runs a long time, and the lead goes back and forth.  :)on't let yourself get mentally beat (easy to say, I know).  Play your game.  Stay strong.

Her current relationship has to run its course.  You can't end it, but you can prolong it.  The more this becomes "us against you" the more you bind them together in a common goal.

The best way to not do this is to completely surrender - but with strength and confidence.

Get a message to her (don't violate any restrictions) that you can see that she is happy and you wish th two of them the best.  Tell her your focus is to make this as pleasant and amicable co-parenting relationship as possible.  No hard feelings.  The child is first and a child wants peace in its life.

Next time you see the guy, step, shake his hand.

What can a white knight do when there is no dragon to slay?

I'm not saying magically let go - you can't over rule your heart.  I am saying make a strategic retreat with strength.  Earn his respect.  Earn the respect of her Dad.  

This is a win win for you all around.  It doesn't resolve the immediate issues -- they are out of your hands.  But it does position you better for the next quarter - whatever that brings.

Be strong.  

[ShadowDancer]

I don't know about the shaking his hand part. I'm afraid I have to draw the line on that.

[Turkish]

I don't know about the shaking his hand part. I'm afraid I have to draw the line on that.

I  imagine in my mind the scene from the movie  Tombstone,  where Doc  Holliday  leans against the wall with detached disdain and says, " pahdon me if I don't shake your hand."

[shellsh0cked]

Damn that 4-letter word. A day I get legal rights to start seeing my son, and I cannot fully enjoy the moment because of her and her new love. Then I start to come to my senses.  I start facing the facts.  I see the dishonesty, the gaslighting, the Triangulation, the need, the abuse, the lack of empathy, the distorted look at reality, and it makes me feel a little better.  Because the lessons that I've learned from all of this is, would I go and support a woman that has a RO or child custody issues after dating her for 10 weeks?  Would I overlook that as a red flag?  :)o I still want to be the knight saving the damsel in distress?  Is the relationship I want in the future what I had in the past?  Would I even consider seeing a woman in the future if I knew she was alienating her son from his father (what is my replacement thinking)?  If not, why does this bother me so much?  Ego?  Wanting what you can't have? Or is it just being a human?  

Arn... . one thing you should realize is this buddy... . who KNOWS what kind of crap she has told him?... . In their little distorted world you are the enemy, and I am sure she is trash talking you to him like you're the biggest piece of $hit that ever walked the earth.  There are three sides to every story... . hers, yours, and the truth.  He has only heard of one.  

My ex?  She would KILL me if I were talking to just about anyone with a vagina... . period... . because she is so insecure, but it was a double standard man... . she admitted to talking to her ex-boyfriends... . plural... . about my "inability to keep my eyes off other women", and about me supposedly checking out her mother's boobs at Thanksgiving... .   ... . She told me that one of them said I was depraved and sick and were disgusted by that.  Of course they are... . because all they have heard is what she said... . which was a big ol pile of crazy @ss bull$hit that she created in that psycho mind of hers... . they haven't heard the other side... . the side where none of that even happened!  Funny though, I would think they should know that about her since she is an "ex" of theirs too, but time makes you forget those details I guess.  

The only thing you should feel is "sorry"... . for what he just signed up for.

Hope that gives you some food for thought.  -J

[arn131arn]

There will be an opportunity when I am on the witness stand when this comes to trial on the 7th. I can definately let the judge know that that's how I feel and what I see and what I want. I enrolled in a co-parenting class today. I am being proactive where she is doing nothing but slinging dirt.

[Surnia]

I enrolled in a co-parenting class today. I am being proactive ... .

[ShadowDancer]

Arn, I believe you are now better than the man you had to be to get her.

For me, NOW, there is NOTHING more rewarding than being a father. No regrets there... . these days I figure where most people are concerned... . what's on the inside is on the outside... . and visa versa... . it's all a leap of faith... . me?... . I'm taking it all the way.

[shellsh0cked]

Arn, I believe you are now better than the man you had to be to get her.

I think for most of us it doesn't take but one borderline for us to figure out that we are never gonna take $hit like that again from anyone else... . I know I am a stronger... . and better person for it.  And I actually have to thank M for that... .

[ShadowDancer]

Arn, I believe you are now better than the man you had to be to get her.

I think for most of us it doesn't take but one borderline for us to figure out that we are never gonna take $hit like that again from anyone else... . I know I am a stronger... . and better person for it.  And I actually have to thank M for that... .

Ahh... . the hidden gifts this life has to offer us... . if we can see them beyond the veil of our desires. This scar across my emotional cheek is now my badge of honor. Romantically... . I walked across that battle field... . and returned to my home.

I suppose what I have learned in the looking into her mirror... . what I see is myself ... . in them.

[Skip]

I don't know about the shaking his hand part. I'm afraid I have to draw the line on that.

OK, then you probably shouldn't shake his hand.  He won't know who you are anyway. 

I understand your point - it's a judgment call for sure.

My point was to be strategic - win the war - don't get drawn into a battle you don't need to fight. 

She will likely work every angle to draw "arn" into the conflict.  Its a smart strategy for her.  Everyone will rescue her.  Boyfriend. Dad. Court.  She has good mud to fling.  u

Arn's got to rise above the conflict if he is to have a possible chance to recapture his relationship sometime in the future (he may change his mind, but he has expressed this interest), and have access to his child.

Sure it feels better to be angry and battle back.  But is it smart?

I enrolled in a co-parenting class today. I am being proactive where she is doing nothing but slinging dirt.

Bravo.

Are you making all the AA meetings?   Have you thought about becoming a Big Brother or some other type of youth support?

[arn131arn]

I think Skip is right. I think it's a very subtle and covert way to move them into the next phase of their RS. I also believe that it would cause dragons to become extinct. I will have an oportunity to do that on the stand. As far as shaking hands, I'd rather crap in my hands and clap. But what a powerful way to help move them out of the honeymoon stage. I am no longer fighting them, it's not about her or me or who's right and who's wrong... . it's about my son and what is right and wrong for him. My AA sponser constantly tells me to do nothing. Not nothing where there is no action but nothing to fight her... . I will never when a fight against her. I tried for far too long. I am making my AA mtgs 3 nights a week. My sponser is more concerned about my actions, my step work, my service, then how many AA mtgs I go to. He is not concerned about my feelings, as well. Feelings are irrevelant when it comes to staying sober. I drank when happy, sad, she left or she came back. New job. Loss of a job, so my feelings can get

[arn131arn]

Get me in allot of trouble where my actions of treating others well, walking a good life, living the 12 steps in my daily life, and being of service to my fellow man, a good dad, son, empoyee, brother, student will never ever be my downfall. If you want to know the truth ask a reformed thief or a recovering alocholic, it's hard to work the 12 steps, and as a result have a spiritual experience as a result, and not be honest with yourself. It's done with no honesty at times, but those who are not honest, don't stay sober a long time. Those who work with honesty grow... . 46 and 2

[Mutt]

I am no longer fighting them, it's not about her or me or who's right and who's wrong... . it's about my son and what is right and wrong for him.

Bravo Arn.  

it's hard to work the 12 steps,

One day at a time.

[ShadowDancer]

The word strategic really jumps out to me. Skip is right on the mark on that. Perhaps it is not so much the winning the skirmish, (for lack of a better analogy) but more about how we conduct our selves under fire that measures the worth of the student and the depth of the lessons learned.

There are many things for me that once did but now suddenly don't require my interference nor my blessing any longer. They work out the way they are going to regardless because what I have learned is... . this too will pass! It is now about the faith.

[Skip]

My AA sponsor constantly tells me to do nothing. Not nothing where there is no action but nothing to fight her... . I will never when a fight against her. I tried for far too long. I am making my AA meetings 3 nights a week. My sponsor is more concerned about my actions, my step work, my service, then how many AA meetings I go to.

Sounds like a good man.

I am no longer fighting them, it's not about her or me or who's right and who's wrong... . it's about my son and what is right and wrong for him.

And another good man. We're all proud of you.

I will have an opportunity to do that on the stand.

When you are on the stand, it is all about the judge and how he/she sees you.  Nothing else matters.  And these guys have seen it all so play it straight.  He is going to want to see a self-aware man.  A man remorseful for his digressions and committed to do the hard work.

Her attorney is going to try and rattle you - ask embarrassing questions - trip you up.  How you perform in that triggering environment will be important. Listen carefully to your attorney.  You need steady nerves, honesty, and no excuses - just answer the question - don't take the bait.

Attorney: Arn, given x, y, z, and that fact that you are a scuzball, wouldn't you say you are a danger to this child?  

Arn:  No sir, I am not a danger to my child.  I love my child and I want a healthy environment for him all around.

Rehearse.  Be ready.