Did you notice the idealization / devaluation in other aspects of their lives?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I know I did.  I suppose I didn't recognize it for its roots in the disorder at the time, but my ex would go through the same idealizaion / devaluation in other parts of his life, not just interpersonal relationships.

He'd started doing Crossfit, and it was the most awesome, best, greatest thing for a time, then suddenly, he just stopped and wasn't at all interested anymore.  It was actually helping to keep him a bit more balanced, too, but he gave up on it.

He started a self-awareness program, paid good money for it, loved it, it was really helping him and he was really, really gung-ho about it, made himself a team leader and everything... .then all of a sudden, he stopped.  I got no explanation for this one.  He just suddenly became completely uninterested in it.

There were other things, too... .movies he'd obsess over for a period of time, then suddenly forget all about.  Artistic endeavors that he'd go headlong into and be over the moon about, then just quit doing without explanation.  Writing he would really put lots of effort into and be so excited about, then stop.  Playing soccer with his son for a time, then giving up on that, too.  Foods he loved were all of a sudden hated.  Things like this played out regularly... .

Before I met him, he'd gone through the same pattern with two careers... .and hindsight reminds me that he would never talk about why he left the music industry (he was an aspiring artist and had a job in a mastering studio, who, by his own account, was on a good path).  He would just give this ambiguous answer about not trusting the industry and that he gave it all up for his ex-wife because she was so insecure and wouldn't let him be himself.  He left NA because he didn't feel as though he could trust them, either.  He left The Marines for some unexplained reason, too.  He LOVED being a Marine, but suddenly decided to leave anyway. 

We can all do this to some extent, but his attitudes about and behaviors surrounding these things were an extreme that I'd never seen before.  Anyone else notice similar behaviors or patterns?

[maternal]

I know I did.  I suppose I didn't recognize it for its roots in the disorder at the time, but my ex would go through the same idealizaion / devaluation in other parts of his life, not just interpersonal relationships.

He'd started doing Crossfit, and it was the most awesome, best, greatest thing for a time, then suddenly, he just stopped and wasn't at all interested anymore.  It was actually helping to keep him a bit more balanced, too, but he gave up on it.

He started a self-awareness program, paid good money for it, loved it, it was really helping him and he was really, really gung-ho about it, made himself a team leader and everything... .then all of a sudden, he stopped.  I got no explanation for this one.  He just suddenly became completely uninterested in it.

There were other things, too... .movies he'd obsess over for a period of time, then suddenly forget all about.  Artistic endeavors that he'd go headlong into and be over the moon about, then just quit doing without explanation.  Writing he would really put lots of effort into and be so excited about, then stop.  Playing soccer with his son for a time, then giving up on that, too.  Foods he loved were all of a sudden hated.  Things like this played out regularly... .

Before I met him, he'd gone through the same pattern with two careers... .and hindsight reminds me that he would never talk about why he left the music industry (he was an aspiring artist and had a job in a mastering studio, who, by his own account, was on a good path).  He would just give this ambiguous answer about not trusting the industry and that he gave it all up for his ex-wife because she was so insecure and wouldn't let him be himself.  He left NA because he didn't feel as though he could trust them, either.  He left The Marines for some unexplained reason, too.  He LOVED being a Marine, but suddenly decided to leave anyway. 

We can all do this to some extent, but his attitudes about and behaviors surrounding these things were an extreme that I'd never seen before.  Anyone else notice similar behaviors or patterns?

[Aussie JJ]

Yes

A few of my friends, awsome people then they were the devil

Her ex partner

The house I bought

Jobs, best in the world then it was the worst in the world. 

Anything that I enjoyed, would encourage me then cut it down

She bought a dog, then had it put down

Our son.  Now that she can see he is bonding well with me I can see her feeling threatened.  She cant devalue my relationship with him anymore so now she is devaluing him.  Less attention on him, its subtle but their. 

The last is the saddest of all.  She will never give him up as he is the thing I care about the most but he is a when suits child.  All she does is use him to provide an image herself of being this beaten down single mum... .

I am never going to tell her this but it is pretty obvious

[camuse]

Yes, mind started hobbies and they were the best thing she had ever done, then she got bored instantly and hated them.

She made amazing friends who then became idiots she wanted nothing more to do with.

She even moved several times, after hating the amazing new flat she lived in, time and time again.

I was the only good thing in her life, she said. Until she turned against me as well.

[.cup.car]

A former good friend of mine was like this as well, although he was uASPD and not uBPD.

He was a big DIY guy and loved tinkering with stuff. He made a hobby of buying broken xbox 360's and fixing them up, but occasionally he'd ignore this hobby for weeks at a time and hastily sell everything at a loss - which added up quickly.

This lead to impulsive spending as he attempted to "buy" his way into other hobbies out of boredom and uncertainty.

At one point he bought a kart off of my buddy and I, and appeared to really enjoy working on small engines. After a few months and several hundred dollars invested into it, he totally forgot he had it. How do you totally forget theres a go-kart in your garage? Especially as hed joined a few automotive message boards and would post daily about his karting adventures.

Like others have already described, he suddenly lost interest one day and sold it, right after he'd sunk even more money into it. When he told his online community about this, they were quick to call him on his bizarre behavior. He blew up at them and claimed the entire site was conspiring against him.

It was weird, but I know how y'all in here feel.

[mstnghu]

My wife has always shown this pattern when it comes to people but I haven't seen it in regards to other aspects of her life. She works in the education field and a couple of years ago she was working with a college student that she couldn't stop talking to me about. She would come home from work just gushing praise about this person. The first time I met her I thought she was nice enough, but honestly just didn't get the infatuation my wife had with her. Fast forward a few months and they stopped speaking completely and my wife has nothing but bad things to say about her.

My wife also has a best friend she's known most of her life. I really like her a lot and she's just a great all-around person with upbeat energy. My wife hasn't had anything nice to say about her lately and keeps complaining that they don't get to spend anytime together because her friend won't make the effort. Forget the fact that her friend's husband is on permanent medical disability and can't work and she is the sole bread winner. They're also busy with a 3 year old daughter and trying to run a photography business on the weekends. My wife completely disregards those facts. In reality, this friend has tried to make time for my wife but my wife always finds some sort of excuse to back out of their plans.

I have a very close friend who's a girl and we've known each other for over 25 years. My wife acted completely accepting of her in the beginning of our relationship and seemed to genuinely like her. Within a couple months, my wife hated her. This friend is a GREAT person in many ways and I've always cherished our friendship. This friend doesn't have a mean bone in her body and she can't stand anything about my wife and would love to see me divorce her. She still feels completely betrayed by my wife.

My wife has another good friend she works with. She completely idolizes this person on every level and is constantly sending her text messages with questions about just about everything related to parenting/relationship with me etc. Everything this friend says takes precedence over any of my viewpoints. She literally is like a goddess to my wife. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before this friend is cast to the side because my wife finds something wrong with her.

[antjs]

For god's sake they even idealize/devalue themselves.


During the r/s : crazy making... .reaction of me... .projection on to me... .blame on me... .me getting angry... .victimization from her and she started crying and out of the blue "i am a miserable woman. You really do not want to be with me. I dont want you to get involved in my miserable life and suffer."


Two weeks later during the break up talk : "nobody will love you as much as i did. I gave you all my love and you were not appteciating. You took it very fast and scared me. All you want is to be happy and you dont care about my happiness. You are responsible for taking it so fast without considering my emotions. You will not find someone like me." My response was "exactly i hope not"

Btw she is the one who: initiated foreplay on first date, called me for second date, rent a place to live with me though she lives at her sister's after one week of the first date, bought me a present on the 8th day, said i love you on the third date, introduced me to her sister.

[Trent]

During our time together (18 months):

- "broke up" with her adult son and created legal & family drama with him/his wife

- bought and sold a house

- got the paperwork done and registered a business, got business cards, then forgot about it completely (actually she clings to the CEO title even though she does nothing)

- started then quit college degree

- started then quit a waitressing job

- bought and sold a car

all this at 55 years old... .and several other "bright ideas" which she never even actually started... .eventually I just learned to smile, nod and say, "that sounds great honey!"

Her love of booze, cigarettes and weed never wavered though!  

[enlighten me]

Both my exs did this.

Loved the car they had then hated it.

Loved the house then hated it.

Started career courses with a passion then dropped them.

Started exercise got obsessive then stopped it.

Same with diets, friends, hobbies, religion, pets pretty much everything.

Apart from music I cant think of one constant in their lives.

[Perdita]

Yes, mind started hobbies and they were the best thing she had ever done, then she got bored instantly and hated them.

This is huge with my BPbf.  He gets bored very very easily.  Loves something for a while, but then craves something more exciting only to get bored with that soon enough too.

[BacknthSaddle]

Yes, mind started hobbies and they were the best thing she had ever done, then she got bored instantly and hated them.

This is huge with my BPbf.  He gets bored very very easily.  Loves something for a while, but then craves something more exciting only to get bored with that soon enough too.

This may not be specific enough to BPD but to me this is a huge red flag. Mine would talk about the need to change her hair or get new tattoos all the time bc of boredom. She told me she would only lease cars, and I pointed out that that was a poor financial decision, she said "oh I know it is, but I have to do it because I just get bored of my cars too fast." Right after her divorce, which was struggling to afford, she leased a more expensive car.

Of course, she also admitted to getting bored of people and moving on. Why didn't I listen to this s**t when she said it? Or, maybe more accurately: why did I think I was above it?

[antjs]

why did I think I was above it?

Because we ignored the red flags. Because we did not know that there is disorder. Although mostly of us admit that there was "something wrong" our vulnerable narcissistic nature made us think that with enough love, care, support and kindness that we can "make them heal." We thought we can make them trust that life can be good and that they can trust us. Nobody is above the disorder.

Great question btw that should be addressed during introspection.

[topknot]

I told him exactly this in our breakup. I said  "You can't stay with anything very long, let alone me." A lot of the behaviors he adopted and then radically dropped had to do with which

women he had on the line.  He suddenly had a Nutribullet, then never saw that again. Thought hmm, a health nut chick is going to have a field day with him. Magazines like Fisherman's World - WHAAT?  Saw a credit card bill for an Ab Rocket Twist - got a good laugh out of that one. Always a shinier toy to divert attention and salve for his pain, but never lasted.

[BacknthSaddle]

Although mostly of us admit that there was "something wrong" our vulnerable narcissistic nature made us think that with enough love, care, support and kindness that we can "make them heal."

Oh, I know it was ultimately driven by my own narcissism.  It's funny: even now, I'll find myself say in the shower, and I'll have a conversation in my head where I explain to her what she's done wrong, why I can't take her seriously as a "friend," how she treats people, etc.  And then I'll think "if I really believe all these things, why am I even thinking about talking to this person or having her in my life?"  And then I realize that I must STILL think that if I say the right things, I can "help" her.  I realized I'm far from acceptance.

Radical acceptance is tough.  I feel like I'm constantly looking for PROOF of the disorder.  Even when I look at the mounds of evidence I have, I'll remember one little thing like "oh, I really like Kanye West, and she said she hates Kanye West and joked about it, so she must not have been mirroring me at all, which means she isn't BPD, which means I really wasn't good enough."  And then I'll want contact just to prove to myself again that she IS BPD.  Which often she does, but I end up feeling even more pain in the process.

There can never be enough proof.  Radical acceptance is beyond proof.  I have to get there. 

[BorisAcusio]

Although mostly of us admit that there was "something wrong" our vulnerable narcissistic nature made us think that with enough love, care, support and kindness that we can "make them heal."

Oh, I know it was ultimately driven by my own narcissism.  It's funny: even now, I'll find myself say in the shower, and I'll have a conversation in my head where I explain to her what she's done wrong, why I can't take her seriously as a "friend," how she treats people, etc.  And then I'll think "if I really believe all these things, why am I even thinking about talking to this person or having her in my life?"  And then I realize that I must STILL think that if I say the right things, I can "help" her.  I realized I'm far from acceptance.

Radical acceptance is tough.  I feel like I'm constantly looking for PROOF of the disorder.  Even when I look at the mounds of evidence I have, I'll remember one little thing like "oh, I really like Kanye West, and she said she hates Kanye West and joked about it, so she must not have been mirroring me at all, which means she isn't BPD, which means I really wasn't good enough."  And then I'll want contact just to prove to myself again that she IS BPD.  Which often she does, but I end up feeling even more pain in the process.

There can never be enough proof.  Radical acceptance is beyond proof.  I have to get there. 

It doesn't matter if she's BPD or not. She was clearly toxic to you and others around her.

[PhoenixFromTheFlames]

Good thread Maternal!

My ex was/is still I think a personal trainer.  She wanted to go into into the wellness field via attaching to a client - she would spend endless time on her computer "working" on her ideas but never had a serious discussion for about 18 mod with the client -- when he told her he didn't have a job for her ... .she raged.  I thought at the the time how naive and out of it can she be?    Then she wanted to go to school for Physical Therapy, then it was become a basketball coach, then it was she wanted to go into sports broadcast journalism (wanted to be on tv ... .wanted the status) - she even applied and was provisionally accepted to a top journalism school graduate program (guess who helped get her transcripts, write the essays, pay for her trips for interviews, etc).  Gave up on all of it.  The saddest part is that in her lucid moments, she knows she can't stay with anything, she has even said it to me.  At one point as we were breaking up she said she feared she would become homeless etc because she can't focus... .She chalks it up to ADD (she's been diagnosed with it).  One of the last things she said to me in a late night call after we were broken up (I no longer answer such calls) was that she realizes how screwed up it is that she gets into relationships, friendship, etc and after about three months it's over (we were together for about 4 yrs -- 3.85 yrs too many) and that it's no way to live because its hurtful to others.  She refuses to get help.  I told her ... .don't contact me anymore.  If you want to be in my life then go to therapy consistently for six months and have the therapist call me to report on how you're doing and to validate your commitment to get help.  Not happening.  They are sick and they know it just can't or will not do anything to help themselves.

[enlighten me]

My ex wife also wanted to be a personal trainer. I found her somewhere that she could be trained. Got all the applications and even spoke to my work so that I could look after our sons when she had to do the attending phases. It all came to nothing. She then wanted to join a rowing club. That also came to nothing. Then a running club again nothing. When we were getting divorced she wanted an extra £8000 so she could train as a horse riding instructor. She's now given up horse riding as her backs to bad.

I had to laugh when I heard this because she had allsorts of ailments when with me that prevented her from getting a job. I later found out her fiane was trying to get her to go to work.

[antjs]

ex's occupational history: comparative literature bacheolar (cause she loves literature !)

                                   

                                   primary school teacher (oh where did the literature go ?)


                                  escaped her family and went to america working as a freelancer for a documentaries production company writing scripts where she    writes down interviews of people being interviewed with an accent. btw she claimed that she is a "project manager"  she said she liked it because "it is so noble and the aim of the documentaries is to expose truth to people" (i am gonna cry out of laughter. i can smell being fake in the air"

                                  during her stay in my country she was going for interviews to become a tv show hostess and when i asked her that these channels are not as noble as the documentaries production company her reply was "___ this ___ i need money and a stable job" (i am not judging this but i am amazed at the change of morals in seconds). when she failed the most important interview she raged 

[BacknthSaddle]

It doesn't matter if she's BPD or not. She was clearly toxic to you and others around her.

She was right? Why is that so hard for me to remember sometimes? Why do I try to convince myself that she's been reasonable all this time?

[Changingman]

why did I think I was above it?

Because we ignored the red flags. Because we did not know that there is disorder. Although mostly of us admit that there was "something wrong" our vulnerable narcissistic nature made us think that with enough love, care, support and kindness that we can "make them heal." We thought we can make them trust that life can be good and that they can trust us. Nobody is above the disorder.

Great question btw that should be addressed during introspection.

Nobody is above the disorder.

[Eric1]

Was out on my date and... .Had a missed call... .From the ex.

It was unlike her just to call the once, but she did.

Very surprised.

[earthgirl]

My uBPD husband and I refer to these as his "serial obsessions." 

[LostGhost]

I like these kinds of threads simply from a contemplative perspective. They seem to help me construct the puzzle of who she was.

My ex definitely idealized new hobbies, foods, friends or whatever then quickly devalued them. Yoga, running, horseback riding, dancing etc. the list goes on. She had so many interests when I met her I thought she was superwoman. It was part of the attraction I suppose. The longer I spent with her the more often certain hobbies would be cycled or disappear entirely with little to no explanation. If there was an explanation at all, it was do ways some physical ailment that prevented her from continuing. And from what I gather, having many ailments - real or imagined - is another major trait of the disorder.

[Huh?]

Her family members... .they cut each other off for months at a time, then back to speaking again and hanging out, and then cut off again.  This pattern went all the way up to the grand mother, who was speaking to her daughters and not speaking to her others.  It was truly insane.  Every day, I had to listen to her go on and on about her sister, mother, or even 12 year old niece who was the devil and cut off... .but then they were friends again.  And then they werent.  And then they were. 

[enlighten me]

Her family members... .they cut each other off for months at a time, then back to speaking again and hanging out, and then cut off again.  This pattern went all the way up to the grand mother, who was speaking to her daughters and not speaking to her others.  It was truly insane.  Every day, I had to listen to her go on and on about her sister, mother, or even 12 year old niece who was the devil and cut off... .but then they were friends again.  And then they werent.  And then they were. 

My exgf spent our whole time together moaning about her ex sister in law. About what a waster she was, how she was a drain on society etc etc Since we split up theyre all chummy again on facebook. I thought this was to do with her trying to recycle her ex husband but now I think its just part of her friendship cycle or maybe a bit of both.

[Changingman]

Continuous throughout both RSs with BPDs.

Huge problem for RSs, I used to say to Xw you pick people up and drop then like stones.

I had no idea how far these infatuations went, now, I know. What a shocker betrayal as a lifestyle choice/not choice.

"You made me do it"

[myself]

My ex has been suicidal in the past. Threatened doing it while with me.

Yet she also counts her blessings, quite often in exaggerated ways.

So, she idealizes and devalues her Life.

[gtrhr]

This thread actually reminds me of one of the quirkier aspects of my ex girlfriend uBPD!  It almost makes me laugh because it was just more of one of the things that I found amusing about her.  Things were awesome and the greatest ever, until they sucked!


For instance, Apple and Steve Jobs were awesome.  Especially when he died and when his biography came out.  She would send me links to his commencement speech, etc.  And bring his name up a lot.  He was such an inspiration. She wanted to treat people better now, like me and her family.

And then a month or two later Apple and Steve Jobs sucked.  She didn't like him.  She thought I was crazy for not understanding how she could be against him now.  God help me for trying to discuss this one with her! 

To this day I find that episode hilarious. 


I was alternately really good at photography or I took "junk photos."  She was Asian and her ability to cut me down in one fell swoop, is almost legendary.

There were a lot of other examples but it's so interesting that this immediate acceptance, followed by harsh critique/rejection in other aspects of life is a pattern amongst our BPD partners.

[earthgirl]

And what is so amazing about these extremes in like/dislike is, they are all "reality."  The BPD'd person means every word of how wonderful something/someone is, and then, when they turn on a dime, how awful (or unimportant) that same something/someone is.  

This is so hard for me to wrap my head around, especially when my husband does this with regard to people.  I mean, we all get irritated with people we love -- I get that -- but our conception of them as people doesn't really change, just because they might do something that disappoints us or makes us angry.  My husband can see someone as a totally different person, depending on his mood.  His whole conception of a person's core character can change in an instant.  Back and forth.  Wavy, shimmering reality.  

I never thought I'd be in a relationship with someone whose conception of reality resembles a Salvador Dali painting.

[Emelie Emelie]

WOW he did it with other people all the time.  He hired a new assistant and before she even started she and his son were going to be running the business some day.  Bloom came off that rose pretty quickly.  I saw it with his friends (ex-friends).  Even his son, although he cycled through it with him fairly fast.  Mostly his girlfriends.  Over time I heard enough "pieces" of stories that I could clearly see it.  And then of course I lived it.

[antjs]

And what is so amazing about these extremes in like/dislike is, they are all "reality."  The BPD'd person means every word of how wonderful something/someone is, and then, when they turn on a dime, how awful (or unimportant) that same something/someone is.  

feelings are facts for borderlines. that's a defensive mechanism. they can not get a "bigger picture". a bigger picture would involve their wrong doings that would get guilt that they know nothing about.

It is like the world through a child's eyes. Their emotional development ceased when they were kids. mom can be the best person in the world for getting me a present and two hours later "I want a cookie. why won't you allow me to take one mom ? I hate you mom. you are a horrible person mom." shallow feelings. can getting a present make you the best person in the world ? can stopping a child from getting a cookie make you the worst person in the world ? its all shallow and impulsive emotions based on the current moment with no object constancy over a long time and with no shades of grey.

[Infared]

Her love of booze, cigarettes and weed never wavered though!  

Those were a steady constant for my pwBPD, too. (So she DID have hobbies and pursuits after all!  )  She never devalued them... .But did devalue or just drop anything worthwhile and eventually me, too.

Changingma mentions "betrayal as a lifestyle choice/not choice."  The is right on the money with my experience, also.