Being a victim versus having a victim mentality

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

In another thread, somebody asked why some people are so adamant about not being a victim. That got me to thinking because I have more or less rejected the idea that I am a victim. I can't seem to say that I am a victim. I feel like this might be something that is keeping me from detaching mentally.

I was thinking that maybe it would be helpful to get other people's perspectives on the notion of being a victim and why they either accept or reject the fact that they are a victim.

As I have been thinking about this, I realize that I grew up with a mom that is the perpetual victim. She has the whole "Why m?" attitude and acts like everybody is out to get her. The reality is that she isn't a victim. She has a victim mentality. I came to this conclusion after looking up the definition of victim and coming across a wikipedia article about "Victim mentality". www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality

From the article:

A victim mentality may manifest itself in a range of different behaviors or ways of thinking and talking:

Blaming others for a situation that one has created oneself or significantly contributed to. Failing or being unwilling to take responsibility for one's own actions or actions to which one has contributed or for taking action to ameliorate the situation.

Ascribing non-existent negative intentions to other people (similar to paranoia).

Believing that other people are generally or fundamentally luckier and happier ("Why me?".

Gaining short-term pleasure from feeling sorry for oneself or eliciting pity from others. Eliciting sympathy by telling exaggerated stories about bad deeds of other people (e.g. during gossip).

All of these descriptions seem to cover my husband and my mother. I have even found myself venturing into some of these areas but am able to stop myself because I am able take responsibility for my actions and realize that a person can be a victim without having a victim mentality. I don't want people to feel sorry for me. Most of the time, I don't share my struggles with people because I do NOT want to be like my mother or my husband.

I feel like part of the reason that I have held on for so long is because I refused to be a victim. I refused to admit that I was being harmed by my husband and his actions. I excused it all away so that I did not have to accept that I was a victim.

[vortex of confusion]

In another thread, somebody asked why some people are so adamant about not being a victim. That got me to thinking because I have more or less rejected the idea that I am a victim. I can't seem to say that I am a victim. I feel like this might be something that is keeping me from detaching mentally.

I was thinking that maybe it would be helpful to get other people's perspectives on the notion of being a victim and why they either accept or reject the fact that they are a victim.

As I have been thinking about this, I realize that I grew up with a mom that is the perpetual victim. She has the whole "Why m?" attitude and acts like everybody is out to get her. The reality is that she isn't a victim. She has a victim mentality. I came to this conclusion after looking up the definition of victim and coming across a wikipedia article about "Victim mentality". www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality

From the article:

A victim mentality may manifest itself in a range of different behaviors or ways of thinking and talking:

Blaming others for a situation that one has created oneself or significantly contributed to. Failing or being unwilling to take responsibility for one's own actions or actions to which one has contributed or for taking action to ameliorate the situation.

Ascribing non-existent negative intentions to other people (similar to paranoia).

Believing that other people are generally or fundamentally luckier and happier ("Why me?".

Gaining short-term pleasure from feeling sorry for oneself or eliciting pity from others. Eliciting sympathy by telling exaggerated stories about bad deeds of other people (e.g. during gossip).

All of these descriptions seem to cover my husband and my mother. I have even found myself venturing into some of these areas but am able to stop myself because I am able take responsibility for my actions and realize that a person can be a victim without having a victim mentality. I don't want people to feel sorry for me. Most of the time, I don't share my struggles with people because I do NOT want to be like my mother or my husband.

I feel like part of the reason that I have held on for so long is because I refused to be a victim. I refused to admit that I was being harmed by my husband and his actions. I excused it all away so that I did not have to accept that I was a victim.

[peiper]

Actually I hate to admit it but I was a volunteer.

[vortex of confusion]

Actually I hate to admit it but I was a volunteer.

I have found myself having a similar thought. Reminds me of the saying, "Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me."

I know that is overly simplified but I stopped being a victim the minute I found out his true nature yet made a very conscious decision to stay. I may have been a victim early on but now I definitely feel more like a volunteer.

[BuildingFromScratch]

At least for me, I feel that I am a victim in this circumstance. I was lied to constantly, and confused and guilt tripped until I was in a constant state of anxiety, disassociation and low self esteem. Being a victim has the advantage of me not blaming so much on myself. That being said, I chose to trust her and let things progress fast. That I will never do again, I will slowly get to know people from now on.

A victim mentally is personified by looking at our ex's, they literally never put the blame on themselves. That's a self defeating and sad thing for everyone, even them.

[vortex of confusion]

At least for me, I feel that I am a victim in this circumstance. I was lied to constantly, and confused and guilt tripped until I was in a constant state of anxiety, disassociation and low self esteem. Being a victim has the advantage of me not blaming so much on myself. That being said, I chose to trust her and let things progress fast. That I will never do again, I will slowly get to know people from now on.

I was a victim in the beginning. I feel like I did everything possible to prevent being in a bad relationship. I met his friends and family. I made sure that my family approve of him. We went through premarital counseling and took compatibility tests. We spent an entire weekend doing a retreat that focused on nothing but marriage preparation and what to expect from marriage. I had no illusions that marriage would be easy. I knew it would be a lot of work. I was very honest and up front about everything. He was the one that hid his love for porn. He was the one that did not stick with the teachings of his own church. Those are things that I could not have predicted or prevented. In that regard, I absolutely was a victim.

I stopped being a victim when I kept giving him chances while discarding the fact that he probably was not going to change. I am not talking about only giving him one or two chances. I am talking about me repeatedly trying to rescue, protect, and fix him and our relationship. At some point, I had to realize that I had gone above and beyond what was expected of any normal person. I had to realize that I could no longer proclaim myself an innocent victim because I knew what to expect. I refuse to be his victim any longer. Until I can find a way for us to physically separate, I can set boundaries and do what I need to do to stop the destructive cycles.

The truth of the matter is that a person can spend years getting to know somebody and still have a bad result. I feel like I did everything I knew to do to prevent this situation yet it still happened. It is kind of like what happens when you follow a recipe exactly and it doesn't turn out.

[Pingo]

Wow Vortex, everything you said is applicable to me.  My mom and my ex LOVE being the victim.   They love to blame others for their lot in life, they love to induce pity and attention.  My mom is less blatant about it.  She is more the type to turn everything inwards in hopes you'll notice and feel sorry for her.  My ex is very obvious (like a 5 yrs old).  He has a brain injury so tells everyone and anyone who will listen about his brain injury and the difficulties he's faced since.  I fell for it too. 

I was not allowed to have a victim mentality growing up.  If I cried I'd hear "I'll give you something to cry about".  So I turned it inward like my mother.  I became depressed, quiet, morose.  I think I was just hoping someone would notice me and show me compassion.  I felt very desperate.  It would come out as passive aggression in r/ss. 

I have grown a lot since then, I learned that my attitude was my responsibility.  I despise the victim mentality in others because I hate it in myself.  I try really hard to not get stuck there.  I do have my moments when I can feel pretty sorry for myself.  I was having one of those weeks this past week.  I told my T Friday that I get really embarrassed for showing this.  I have spent my lifetime trying to hide my weaknesses.  Don't show your weakness and you won't get hurt (so my dysfunctional thought process says).  There has been a lot of shame around being the victim, I really rejected the whole idea of it.

I don't feel like my ex victimised me.  I had a choice.  I chose to stay.  But I do think I was a victim of my upbringing.  I suffered a lot of heartache and I didn't deserve it.  I think I've denied the abuse I suffered because I didn't want to be a victim since I abhorred the victim mentality so much.  Not realising that there is a difference between 'victim' and 'victim mentality'. 

[DangIthurts]

I think initially people are victims of the con-game, but that is how the BPD person survives by getting people into those situations.

So I think if you come to places like this, but still engage or in my case hope to engage with an ex (crazY as it sounds as I know its a big bad Idea, but at least I know I won't be the one to re-engage, if she calls she calls if not I'll be good I guess) Then you aren't a victim you are a willing participant.

But for those who just are trying to love someone be it because they're kind or just have deep seeded issues of their own and are being tricked and manipulated but haven't found out about BPD or some other disorder than I don't really blame then for hoping and wanting to do their best.

[Hope0807]

Rescuer, Caretaker, Victim, Survivor…at one point or another all have described me.  I think when we live and breathe in the definition of one label over everything else that makes us whole throughout the day…THEN and only then are we truly the type of "victim" with a "victim mentality" people tend to loathe.  I volunteered to be patient, to be treasured and adored, to experience joy and love.  I may have been broken in my own way (most humans are) and whatever I lacked or whatever signs I now know I missed… DID NOT and WILL NEVER release him from or excuse him from being an abuser, baiter, and bottom-feeder in this life.  

There is no doubt that some on the outside of my situation can look in and be accusatory and disgusted with my "victim mentality" or wish that I would just hurry up and move out of the phase of being a "victim".  Ironically, I felt strong and capable while in the relationship.  I watched HIM fluctuate between "victim" and "superhero" personas on a daily basis.  SMH, SMH.  It took months and a therapist to convince me that just because I wasn't beaten doesn't mean I wasn't "abused."   ME…abused?  "No way," I thought.  Yes, I was emotionally and psychologically abused by man who is albeit considered "broken" by some standards of illness…purposefully and repeatedly deceived, manipulated, and brought down my world - piece by piece.  He is not someone I feel compassionate toward, as that for me would mean excusing the EVIL he poured onto me.

"Victims" with a "victim mentality"-I have learned are crucial terms to accept in this healing process on a TEMPORARY basis.  Now, we have been given this uniquely painful challenge to embark upon the journey beyond being a "victim" and/or living in the "victim mentality".

At least for me, I feel that I am a victim in this circumstance. I was lied to constantly, and confused and guilt tripped until I was in a constant state of anxiety, disassociation and low self esteem. Being a victim has the advantage of me not blaming so much on myself. That being said, I chose to trust her and let things progress fast. That I will never do again, I will slowly get to know people from now on.

I was a victim in the beginning. I feel like I did everything possible to prevent being in a bad relationship. I met his friends and family. I made sure that my family approve of him. We went through premarital counseling and took compatibility tests. We spent an entire weekend doing a retreat that focused on nothing but marriage preparation and what to expect from marriage. I had no illusions that marriage would be easy. I knew it would be a lot of work. I was very honest and up front about everything. He was the one that hid his love for porn. He was the one that did not stick with the teachings of his own church. Those are things that I could not have predicted or prevented. In that regard, I absolutely was a victim.

I stopped being a victim when I kept giving him chances while discarding the fact that he probably was not going to change. I am not talking about only giving him one or two chances. I am talking about me repeatedly trying to rescue, protect, and fix him and our relationship. At some point, I had to realize that I had gone above and beyond what was expected of any normal person. I had to realize that I could no longer proclaim myself an innocent victim because I knew what to expect. I refuse to be his victim any longer. Until I can find a way for us to physically separate, I can set boundaries and do what I need to do to stop the destructive cycles.

The truth of the matter is that a person can spend years getting to know somebody and still have a bad result. I feel like I did everything I knew to do to prevent this situation yet it still happened. It is kind of like what happens when you follow a recipe exactly and it doesn't turn out.

[Perfidy]

The first time she spit in my face I was her victim. After that, when she punched me, slapped me and threw stuff at me along with verbal and emotional abuse as well as theft and abuse of my finances and property, I can only blame my self. My bad.

[myself]

For many of us, it was as if our role in the r/s was like being a frog in an increasingly hotter pan of water. If at first we didn't notice the temperature was going up, or couldn't comprehend it at the time, at some point we did. Not choosing to hop out then, for whatever reasons, was knowingly sticking around for more. So it's live and learn. Get burned. Get away, cool down, and heal from it. Making sure to not make the same mistakes again.

[Deeno02]

My gf was the victim. Everyones bad but me (yet). I did volunteer to be part of this science project so Im not gonna throw much of the victim card, although I do hold some victim tendencies because of this. The real victims were her kids, because I was yanked out of their lives and replaced rapidly with a new guy, and my kids, who grew to love her as another mother and friend. I would have to say wd all were in some capacity. I know what i experienced was abuse, no matter how you slice it. But its how you choose to live afterwards that sets you apart. I choose not to livd with it. It happened, it hurt, it will continue to hurt, but Im not going to live in fear because of it or her. Shes an abuser, as sure as if she had hit me with her fists, she isnt a victim.

[Moselle]

Vortex. If we put it in the third person. ie "I was victimized. I'm not ashamed of it, the shame belongs to her/him" it takes the label away and puts the responsibility squarely on the bully. It might be a healthier way to see victimisation.

[Louise7777]

Vortex of confusion, thank you for this thread. And peiper, thanks for the laughter! Yep, I volunteered too. I still do, somehow, unfortunately. In the form of providing N supply. Im working on stopping that.

Somebody mentioned the frog in hot water. That was me with my xSO, uPAPD. Slowly but surely, I was abused. I dont like to think of me as a victim, probably cause it makes me feel hopeless. As if I didnt have a choice (I had many!).

Nowadays I dont care if I was a victim or not, I see all that happened as a lesson. I learnt my needs come first, Im entitled to my choices and my feelings and Im not a tool to be used by uPDs (or nons, for that matter). I learnt how to establish boundaries, I still struggle but Im no longer a victim.

[vortex of confusion]

The first time she spit in my face I was her victim. After that, when she punched me, slapped me and threw stuff at me along with verbal and emotional abuse as well as theft and abuse of my finances and property, I can only blame my self. My bad.

No, no, no! No way! You were a victim in all of those instances and you can't blame yourself. It is NOT your fault.

Me refusing to accept that I am a victim is MY problem and I think it is something that is keeping me from detaching. I know that I grew up in a home where my mother was and still is everybody's victim. She loves to live in victimhood. She has a victim mentality and uses it to gain sympathy and help and whatever else it is that she might want or need. I play mind games with myself and go back and forth between feeling like a victim and trying to blame myself for everything. That is why I wanted to have this discussion.

[vortex of confusion]

Nowadays I dont care if I was a victim or not, I see all that happened as a lesson. I learnt my needs come first, Im entitled to my choices and my feelings and Im not a tool to be used by uPDs (or nons, for that matter). I learnt how to establish boundaries, I still struggle but Im no longer a victim.

I was trying to think about this and relate it to other topics. For example, if somebody has their car stolen or their house broken into, does one say, "I was a victim of theft?" Not usually. If I have something stolen, I usually say "My car was stolen" rather than "I was the victim of car thief." You can take reasonable precautions like locking your doors and stuff like that but no amount of being careful can prevent some things from happening.

I am thinking that the difference might be between saying "Bad stuff happens." versus "Bad stuff always happens to me." where bad stuff happens is the equivalent of saying "Yeah, I was a victim in that instance." and bad stuff always happening to me is the equivalent of having a victim mentality.

[peiper]

Actually I hate to admit it but I was a volunteer.

I have found myself having a similar thought. Reminds me of the saying, "Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me."

I know that is overly simplified but I stopped being a victim the minute I found out his true nature yet made a very conscious decision to stay. I may have been a victim early on but now I definitely feel more like a volunteer.

[/quote Exactly

[qwaszx]

I wonder why we find this so hard... I got into a big discussion the other day with a teacher about this exact thing... .she asked me what a victim was to me, I said, 'someone who doesn't have a choice, a child, someone who has been raped, or a prisoner of war, those are victims to me... she asked, what is a women who is getting abused by her husband. I didn't have an answer. So I said, what if they are both victims? What if her preceptions so altered that she believes she is a victim but he hasn't actually done anything? Are they both victims, both portraitures? Both equally to blame?

[vortex of confusion]

I wonder why we find this so hard... I got into a big discussion the other day with a teacher about this exact thing... .she asked me what a victim was to me, I said, 'someone who doesn't have a choice, a child, someone who has been raped, or a prisoner of war, those are victims to me... she asked, what is a women who is getting abused by her husband. I didn't have an answer. So I said, what if they are both victims? What if her preceptions so altered that she believes she is a victim but he hasn't actually done anything? Are they both victims, both portraitures? Both equally to blame?

That is an interesting take on things. I wonder how his/her perceptions got altered. If the perceptions got altered as a result of being in the relationship, then that would point to some kind of abuse. If the perceptions were altered before the relationship, then that would be more difficult to pinpoint.

I didn't think that I had suffered from any kind of abuse because he had only done anything physical to me ONCE. Everything else was very subtle and I would have never considered it abuse until I read a book about emotional abuse. At that point, a whole lot of stuff about how I felt and what I had been experiencing made a lot of sense. At one point, I was afraid that I was abusing HIM because I noticed that I was making snide remarks and being passive aggressive. Somebody looking in from the outside could easily say that my husband has done nothing wrong and that I just have unrealistic expectations or that I am making a mountain out of a mole hill.

How can both partners be equally to blame? I am thinking about my situation. I feel like I did everything I could to make sure that my husband was okay (whatever that means). I had no idea that he was addicted to porn. I had never been married before so I didn't know that his porn habits were abnormal. Heck, society tells us that boys will be boys all the time. How can I take any blame for his addiction? I don't think I ever turned him down for sex so he couldn't use the excuse that his wife wouldn't put out. The only thing that I will accept any blame for is staying in the relationship after I realized that I had been deceived. Once I discovered his addiction, I pretty much let him use me as a dumpster so he wouldn't act out. The piece that I was missing is that he was still acting out, he was just doing it with me rather than porn or other things. I let him use me as an object.

[qwaszx]

"How can both people be equally to blame"

I guess because in my mind, after I had done everything possible to please her, had been a spunge for so long, had been so confused, and  had started sorting everything out, and relized everything. All the anger I had bottled up, from being a door mat came out. I snapped and I told her how I truly felt at the time... .to be honest I don't know that I said anything that was cruel, or untrue... but I felt like monster for saying it.

Maybe because I chose to stay. Because I am responsible for myself.  I don't really know...

I felt like an object a lot of the time, and also let her use me. I knew how she behaved but I chose to stay... .

I think we are victims, as much as I hate the word... by definition we are/were

[vortex of confusion]

"How can both people be equally to blame"

I guess because in my mind, after I had done everything possible to please her, had been a spunge for so long, had been so confused, and  had started sorting everything out, and relized everything. All the anger I had bottled up, from being a door mat came out. I snapped and I told her how I truly felt at the time... .to be honest I don't know that I said anything that was cruel, or untrue... but I felt like monster for saying it.

I might take some of the blame but I will NOT take equal blame. I will accept that I have my own issues and that contributed to my skewed perceptions. At the end of the day, I feel like my view of marriage is healthy and how things should be. My view of marriage is that both partners should take care of and love each other. If I need a safe place to fall apart, my spouse she be the one there to help me pick up the pieces. Home should be a place that is both physically and emotionally safe. I feel like I went above and beyond because I was trying to make our home a safe place for him and our kids. I will never ever regret that and I will never ever accept any blame for that. Like you, I felt like speaking my truth and sharing with him was me being a monster. I think a lot of my fear of abusing him comes from my desire to make our home safe. I was trying to make things safe for everyone but myself. In a normal relationship, the other partner would try to help make home a safe place.

I felt like an object a lot of the time, and also let her use me. I knew how she behaved but I chose to stay... .

I think we are victims, as much as I hate the word... by definition we are/were

Until I found this forum, I honestly thought that I would be able to find a way to make things work. I honestly thought that I just had to work harder to find the magic button to make everything better. I was slowly gaining an awareness of how bad things were but that awareness has increased ten fold in the last several months of participating here. Now that I know what I am dealing with, there is no way in hell I am going to try to stay or fix things. The only thing I want to fix now is ME!

[qwaszx]

That's awesome! I was also trying so hard to keep it safe for her, I wanted her to feel so safe, but I neglected to see what I needed, and that my own needs weren't getting met. I would have done anything, even if it meant hurting me to see to her needs... and I agree, we should have a pertnership, where we both feel safe, unfortunately that wasn't the case. She wasn't able to met me half way.

[CareTaker]

Until I found this forum, I honestly thought that I would be able to find a way to make things work. I honestly thought that I just had to work harder to find the magic button to make everything better. I was slowly gaining an awareness of how bad things were but that awareness has increased ten fold in the last several months of participating here. Now that I know what I am dealing with, there is no way in hell I am going to try to stay or fix things. The only thing I want to fix now is ME!

I have to agree to this statement 100%. Despite all our problems and make up/break up, her reason for all this was she wanted a baby. And although I did everything for her, and got nothing back in return, (except insults) I just knew some how, this is the one thing I cannot do.

It has been 2 months since I walked out, and NC, and slowly but surely I am beginning to feel I am winning this battle against loneliness. I WILL fight this addiction with all I got, and I WILL overcome it. I need to do this to make me a stronger person, and I will not give her the satisfaction of me contacting her so she can throw more of her venom at me. I know she is just waiting for the opportunity, and already has her speech prepared.

There is just no turning back now. No matter what it takes.

[vortex of confusion]

I have to agree to this statement 100%. Despite all our problems and make up/break up, her reason for all this was she wanted a baby. And although I did everything for her, and got nothing back in return, (except insults) I just knew some how, this is the one thing I cannot do.

It has been 2 months since I walked out, and NC, and slowly but surely I am beginning to feel I am winning this battle against loneliness. I WILL fight this addiction with all I got, and I WILL overcome it. I need to do this to make me a stronger person, and I will not give her the satisfaction of me contacting her so she can throw more of her venom at me. I know she is just waiting for the opportunity, and already has her speech prepared.

There is just no turning back now. No matter what it takes.

I am in a slightly different position than you. My husband and I have been married for 16.5 years and have 4 kids together. I don't think that we will ever be able to go no contact. For good or ill, he and I are permanently connected through our kids. I have to find ways to create and enforce boundaries to protect myself so that I do not fall into the trap of adopting a victim mentality. I need to find ways of protecting myself without worrying about whether or not he is in the picture. If I don't find ways to create boundaries and fix myself, then I will be setting myself up to be the victim in future relationships. I am not referring to romantic relationships only. Learning to stand up for myself and set boundaries will go a long way with friends, relatives, coworkers, and anybody else that I may encounter down the road.

[Grey Kitty]

VOC, have you heard of the Karpman Drama Triangle? Where people take the roles of Persecutor, Victim, and Rescuer.

This sounds like what you speak of in terms of the "victim mentality."

[vortex of confusion]

VOC, have you heard of the Karpman Drama Triangle? Where people take the roles of Persecutor, Victim, and Rescuer.

This sounds like what you speak of in terms of the "victim mentality."

I saw somebody else post about that. I read a little bit and it made a lot of sense because I can see how I have fallen into each of those roles at different times.

[Grey Kitty]

Yup. The nature of that triangle is that most people have one position that they find 'comfortable' and will usually start out there. But once it is invoked, people tend to rotate through the roles, often very quickly.

What is your default starting role?

[vortex of confusion]

Yup. The nature of that triangle is that most people have one position that they find 'comfortable' and will usually start out there. But once it is invoked, people tend to rotate through the roles, often very quickly.

What is your default starting role?

In most instances, I am the rescuer. I am the one that finds answers and solutions and protects people.

I am thinking about the beginning of our marriage when he was always looking at porn and ignoring me. I am guessing that I was seen as the persecutor since I was asking him to be accountable for what he was doing. Naturally, that made him the victim since I was unhappy with him choosing porn over me. It wasn't a boys will be boys sort of thing. It was a daily occurrence where he would get up before me, get on the computer, look at porn, take care of himself and then get upset with me when I wanted to be intimate with him.

That was an ongoing battle between us in the first couple of years. When he was forced to resign from his job for looking at porn at work, I was once again the persecutor because I was pi$$ed. I was angry. Then, he invoked the whole sex addiction thing so I tried to rescue him. I feel like he tends to stay in the victim role and go back and forth between rescuing him and persecuting him. Maybe I am misunderstanding the triangle or looking at it from his perspective or the perspective of an outsider too much. When I try to hold him accountable for his role as a husband and father, I feel like I am persecuting him or something.

The truth is that I am probably the victim of him more than I am willing to admit.

[maxen]

In another thread, somebody asked why some people are so adamant about not being a victim.

i think you make an excellent distinction vortex. i was victimized. my wife deceived me, according to a plan, with co-operation, then blindsided me, and waved her infidelity in my face. she did these things knowing that i have major depression. i will be victimized again in the settlement. but those are events and the shame attaches to her as the author of the events. she manufactured a disparity in power and abused it violently. i was in a genuinely frightening place for a year, and during that time my mother died too.

this does not indicate victimhood in any essential sense, nor would it in anyone else in my position. i'm not "being" a victim, i was made one, and i'm recovering from the condition i was forced into. i think i'll be permanently different, but not much (eventually), and in important ways better, not that that diminishes the moral horror of my wife's actions. otoh, having BPD, my wife is looking for ways to feel hurt, it's a predisposition she carries into intimate interpersonal r/ss. that's a victim mentality.

[vortex of confusion]

this does not indicate victimhood in any essential sense, nor would it in anyone else in my position. i'm not "being" a victim, i was made one, and i'm recovering from the condition i was forced into. i think i'll be permanently different, but not much (eventually), and in important ways better, not that that diminishes the moral horror of my wife's actions. otoh, having BPD, my wife is looking for ways to feel hurt, it's a predisposition she carries into intimate interpersonal r/ss. that's a victim mentality.

So sorry to hear about the death of your mom in the midst of craziness!

I really like the way you say that you were made a victim by a situation that you were forced into. I have often struggled with figuring out what went wrong and how I could have done things differently. I feel like I went into the relationship being perfectly honest with him and myself. He was the one that had an addiction that he didn't tell me about. He is the one that kept information from me that would have helped me make a better decision. I wasn't given a choice. He was. At different times, I have said something about wishing that I had known the whole truth. He gives me some kind of crap about, "I didn't know. I didn't realize I was addicted. I thought it would be different once we got married." Um, he made no effort to change any of his habits when we got married. He plugged me into his life but didn't change any of his routines or anything else. I had become an accessory.

[myself]

otoh, having BPD, my wife is looking for ways to feel hurt, it's a predisposition she carries into intimate interpersonal r/ss. that's a victim mentality.

Really glad, although also and even more so terribly sad, to see you say this. It gets to one of the deepest reasons any of us has gone through any of this, on either side of these relationships. Self harm and self doubt. Setting ourselves up for it by casting ourselves in roles we don't really have to play. Roles that come to life because we make it so. Sometimes as stepping stones to something better, sometimes not. How much the deception was intentional changes how gullible the victim was? Or is it anyone who's hurt?

[vortex of confusion]

Really glad, although also and even more so terribly sad, to see you say this. It gets to one of the deepest reasons any of us has gone through any of this, on either side of these relationships. Self harm and self doubt. Setting ourselves up for it by casting ourselves in roles we don't really have to play. Roles that come to life because we make it so. Sometimes as stepping stones to something better, sometimes not. How much the deception was intentional changes how gullible the victim was? Or is it anyone who's hurt?

My husband seems to look for reasons to be hurt and upset and I am the total opposite. I look for reasons to be happy. I can make lemon aide out of almost anything. That is to his advantage because that means that no matter what he says or does, I am going to look on the bright side. I honestly don't think my husband did anything that deliberately. I think he is that clueless and lacks any kind of self awareness.