Hello Bdx4365 and a warm

"Fortunately", no diagnosis of your partner is necessary to join here and learn new tools and skills. I've mentioned this in a couple of other posts here, but the issues we have aren't what the label or diagnosis is, it's the behaviors -- no matter what the behaviors are or aren't called.

A broad support structure and willingness to try new, unintuitive approaches can be key for trying to make changes in your relationship. And, "fortunately" again, you don't need your W's cooperation, approval, or agreement, for you to start learning about better ways to relate to her.

I hear you that she wasn't interested in MC... do you have an individual counselor of your own?

How many kids do you have, and how old are they? Do any of them seem aware of the conflicts?

And would you say that the main issue for you is the constant stream of criticism, or maybe something else?

Fill us in -- we're here to walk alongside you.

I didn’t so much as run into it as it ground into me like grousers on the tracks of a Caterpillar.

It was so incongruous that it was like she was doing a read-through as Martha in Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf.

There’s no denying that her internal narrative was a perpetually looped film of The Perils of Pauline, with me as the maniacally laughing moustachioed villain tying her to a set of railway tracks.

Yes, it’s such a common feature that it’s absence is would make me second guess a great many things.

Hi jj0804 and

That would be really disappointing, to start to have hopes for a future together, and then to feel like things kind of fell apart. I know that hurts.

How long were the two of you in a relationship, before the "big event"?

Could mean a lot of things -- probably at some level, it's about whatever is going on inside of her, and her trying to get her impossibly deep emotional needs met, while coping with wildly varying and often harmfully intense emotions.

If BPD is involved, then a key part of the acronym to remember is that it's Borderline Personality Disorder -- so the ways pwBPD try to get their needs met won't necessarily "make sense" (disordered thinking).

A big question for you would be -- no matter why she does what she does, are you OK with having that kind of behavior in your life? You're in the driver's seat for what you choose to let in.

Thanks so much for your thoughts guys - I appreciate it so much.

Yes, his actions have massively confused and hurt me. He has come in hot offering the world and begging forgiveness... then changed his mind and gaslighting me into thinking he wasn't actually offering that... so so SO many times now. Coming back and forth like the wind. Obviously I've stopped letting him come in again, but even allowing the opportunity for him to even be suggestive about it gets into my head and throws me completely off balance. So I do need to get to the point where there's no contact. It's just been baby steps to get there.

Our pattern has always been that I feel incredibly uncomfortable about leaving things in an unresolved/unpeaceful place and I make contact with him to soothe, resolve and tie it all up nicely. It seems my nervous system needs that. Especially because we live in the same community and see each other around. But once I've done that, he comes back in again... sometimes it takes him minutes, sometimes days/weeks and in the past many months and a relationship for him in between. But he always comes back. And he goes hard with the love-bombing.

I told him the other week about how anxious I was feeling about him reappearing and then disappearing again... he went through a range of reactions to that - first he tried to gaslight me into thinking he hadn't 'reappeared again'... then he was really nice about it and said he understood, and then in the same conversation thought we could maybe hang out and have coffee sometimes... and then he tried to tease me about my anxiety... which I went along with, but when I teased him back about being indecisive, he got nasty... and he sent me a meme about being a 'stage five clinger'. And when I told him I would be upset if that's what he really thought of me... he got angry... shut the conversation down.

I tried to explain to him what effect the back and forth has had on me... how it's actually taken me to a dark place and made me anxious and insecure in ways I didn't used to be. He didn't respond to that. It's obviously easier to label me an anxious, clingy, psycho ex... than to acknowledge that his actions have upset and damaged me.. as they would upset and damage anyone.

When I talked to my psych about it, I was able to see that I just keep going to him with how I feel and hoping he will suddenly get it or acknowledge it... and that's because 1 or 2 times out of 10 he WILL acknowledge it and be kind. But the other times he just ignores me or gaslights me, which makes me even more anxious. It's like a fruit machine. And that's the intermittent reinforcement that keeps me hooked into the game.

Over time I have turned from being a high-value partner who he didn't feel he deserved and had to work at to keep in his life, to a low-value partner who he can pick up and drop whenever he wants. Neither of those positions are healthy. So while I want to keep compassion and love for him, it's important to state that I really don't like the way he has treated me, and I do want to catch my heart up with my head... really hoping therapy will work, but I'm also reading articles that suggest interrupting thoughts about him with other things, and re-reading the truth of the relationship and how bad it was for me... to start re-wiring my brain.

Hi Garlic70;

As odd as it sounds, you could consider contacting a local DBT clinic, explaining your situation (that you don't have BPD but are processing the end of a relationship with a pwBPD), and asking for either an external recommendation, or if they're willing to see you as a client.

Even if your city/town/location doesn't have a DBT clinic, maybe find a larger city in your state/province, and call them up. It's possible that they could provide telehealth services (if you're OK with remote sessions).

Have you officially ended things with your current therapist yet?

Hi dalrym and

You're among friends here -- so many members have experienced the same roller coaster you were on. The disjointedness stood out to me, how after all you two went through, she could say she "didn't understand what you were talking about". I've experienced that with my H's kids' mom (she has many BPD type traits).

In a sense, even if what's going on isn't labeled or diagnosed as BPD, the real issue isn't what it's called, it's that the behaviors and actions are so difficult. Maybe that can be part of your processing -- taking a moment to figure out if you can be OK with not knowing if it was "really" BPD or not, because again, the issue isn't what it's called, it's how it affected you, and how it seems to have left you feeling so down.

That can be an important step in your grieving and healing journey: not trying to escape the pain and loss and grief and hurt, but allowing yourself to feel those feelings instead of stuffing them away. I haven't heard of any way to accelerate the process; the only way out is through the feelings.

Have you had a chance to check out some of the Lessons on Detaching From the Wounds of a Failed BPD Relationship yet? You could consider starting at "Healing, the big picture" and seeing if that resonates with you at all.

...

Has she tried to contact you at all, in the last week or so?

You may have, without knowing it, hit one of the most common things in BPD/NPD relationships! My bet is almost everyone here has experienced this kind of projection. As somebody said above, accusations are confessions. It is SO HARD to wrap your brain around.

I'll give you an example that I've tried to wrap my head around. At 11am the day before going camping with my ex, on one of the two afternoons I had off during the week, I called my ex and told her I wanted to go do the grocery shopping for our camping trip. I knew she had a list of foods she liked to bring camping (it was mentioned in passing once, and I was kinda pleased with myself to for remembering it...and excited to do this for her and show her the love I had for her to remember this detail)

Her response, immediate and very angry, yelling :"you don't want to go grocery shopping! you're just trying to cover your a*s!!"

In no way, shape, or form was I trying to cover my a*s. I had no inkling or thought that I needed to cover my a*s. What had I done that required me to?

After much thought, I realized that the concept of 'covering one's a*s' was on HER mind, was part of HER thinking. Perhaps SHE would try to cover her a*s with a false offer of help or assistance when she didn't really want to do something. Or, she expected that all other people do that because of victim thinking that everyone is out to take advantage of her??

Yes, calling the person a narcissist is very, very common. I experienced that same thing with respect to her ex...he was the narcissist, he was the abuser. My therapist made it very clear to me that I'm not a narcissist, and that HER words and behavior were very consistent with someone with BPD/NPD.

I haven't been called a narcissist (yet), but I've been called emotionally abusive, a neglectful parent, etc. In general, my xwBPD likes to accuse me of all the things she has been over the years. I guess it's that whole projection thing.

I think most people here probably ask themselves if maybe they have BPD/NPD -- and the act of asking themselves that likely rules it out.

Sorry you're having to go through this.

Sounds like a tough situation, but it seems like you are doing everything you can to look out for your child. So credit to you.

I don't have advice, but I can tell you that my older child (14) already wants to spend majority time with me and minimal time with my xwBPD. Once children get into the teen years and start to develop agency and a stronger sense of self, they become more aware of the distortions, emotional instability and general insanity of living with a parent with BPD. My older child also spends a lot of time at friends' homes, so he sees what functioning parents are like and is able to make that comparison.

So as your child gets older and develops more independence and their own social network, they may realize how dysfunctional the other parent is and began to emotionally or even physically distance themselves. (I'm not sure what it's like where you live, but in my area the courts will generally respect the wishes of a child over 12 when it comes to parenting time and where they want to be.)

Thanks for sharing the reading list. I've read Raising Resilient Children and Stop Walking on Eggshells and found them quite useful. Do you think any of them would be appropriate for a 14-year-old? I've been wanting to find something my child could read but haven't had any luck so far.