Responding In More Helpful Ways to My Daughter

[Mr. Dake]

Greetings,

My adoptive daughter is 16.  My wife and I are dealing with a lot of anger, swearing, name calling, hurtful statements, and aggression.  I feel that too much of my time and energy has been spent in defending myself, trying to set limits that she can't adhere to, and arguing with her.  None of which have been helpful, have tended to almost always escalate the situation, and are not something that she is able to respond to.   

I'm ready to try a new approach.  I'd like to reflect back to her feelings and ignore the statements and behaviors.  She feels that she's being blamed for everything, that we're unreasonable, that we don't respect her, that I'm not her real father, etc.. 

I'm feeling a little nervous about being able to change my long-established pattern of relating to her.  I'm not sure that I can do this in ways that sounds genuine versus placating.  I'm not sure how well this will work and if she will be able to have a conversation when she's feeling upset about something.  Perhaps I can state that I'd like to talk about how she's feeling when she's not as upset?   I'm open to trying new things, changing myself, and that there can be improvement.  Another part of me is tired, discouraged, and have feelings of hopelessness. 


Thank you.

Dake

     

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Only Human]

Hello Dake and

You've come to the right place for support as you try a new approach with your daughter. It makes sense that you're nervous, none of this is intuitive and it takes practice, diligence. That you are willing is a great first step.

We have lots of articles that speak to new ways of communicating with a pwBD (person with BPD), and lots of other parents who are having success doing so. You don't have to do this alone, we've got you.

A good place to start is the post pinned to the top of this board, HOW TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THIS SITE It's got many of our best articles all in one place. Take it at your own pace and come back here with any questions at all.

I feel that too much of my time and energy has been spent in defending myself, trying to set limits that she can't adhere to, and arguing with her.

I wonder if you've seen this article on JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain)? It's located in the Library: Tools and Skills Workshops which is accessible on the main listing of boards.

Keep reading, learning all you can, and posting here - it helps to know we are not alone.

Hopefully others will be along soon, we are all here for each other.

Again, Welcome!

~ OH

[StressedOutDaily]

Hi Dake,

I read your post and thought..this could have been written by my husband (or me) .   Our daughter, 16 and also was adopted is exhibiting the same behaviors.I am new here also, and do not have any suggestions for you - but you are not alone.  Knowing that has given me some comfort. 

SOD

 

[Harri]

Hello!  I am joining Only Human and StressedoutDaily in saying welcome!

We do have tools and communication strategies that can help improve communication quite a bit.  They take some time and practice but they do work.  Only Human is one example of how adopting the tools can help.  We have many others as well. 

I think the best place to start is to check out the link Only Human gave you so you can see what materials we have to offer and see which ones apply best to your situation.

I think feeling anxious is to be expected.  None of this is intuitive and often what we have tried to do is counterproductive with pwBPD (people with BPD).   One tool that seems to help and be inline with your desire to focus on feelings is Validation and Invalidation.  Often when we talk we end up invalidating someone without even meaning to!  That is what I mean about this not being intuitive.  pwBPD process things differently that the rest of us and it is a matter of learning that and how to work with that which can make a difference.

Here is another:  https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

Let us know if those links are helpful. 

[Mr. Dake]

Thank you for the welcome and for the recommendations!  I will check them out this weekend.  It's so hard to talk to our daughter so much of the time.  Yesterday, my wife spent most of the day taking her to a medical appointment.  She was upset about something, which she blamed my wife for, threw her retainer breaking both her retainer and the rear view mirror.  I come home from a long work week and we're both feeling defeated.  We will come up with our daughter for a plan for her to pay for the damages, but it will be a long struggle.  It's so tempting to avoid versus doing the hard work of good parenting.  To add insult to injury while my wife and I are trying to relax watching a movie, on the computer so that she can be watching the big t.v. in the living room, she's at us that we won't take her immediately to have her phone fixed which she broke while being aggressive and that we're letting her earn the money towards the cost of the repairs caring for our pets while we're away for two days next month (which I can not wait for!).     
           

[SkellyII]

Greetings,

My adoptive daughter is 16.  My wife and I are dealing with a lot of anger, swearing, name calling, hurtful statements, and aggression.  I feel that too much of my time and energy has been spent in defending myself, trying to set limits that she can't adhere to, and arguing with her.  None of which have been helpful, have tended to almost always escalate the situation, and are not something that she is able to respond to.   

I'm ready to try a new approach.  I'd like to reflect back to her feelings and ignore the statements and behaviors.  She feels that she's being blamed for everything, that we're unreasonable, that we don't respect her, that I'm not her real father, etc.. 

Hi Dake,

It's good to see another dad on here, I was getting kind of lonely.   

The things you're seeing from your daughter are soo common with our BPD kids. The info on this site about validation and handling conflicts are a good start, but will require practice to master.

Another good resource is a parental support group, or maybe even a therapist for you and your wife who also sees BPD patients. You might check to see if there are any in your area.

Good luck, and welcome to the site!

[wendydarling]

Hello Dake and welcome, I'm glad you've joined us here.

I'm open to trying new things, changing myself, and that there can be improvement.

This is a great starting point and I can understand you saying you feel nervous and also helpless, defeated at this point, it's exhausting. Take it all in gently at your own time, I've personally found it an empowering experience and life feels simpler when we know how to help ourselves in our difficult situations.

What was the medical appointment, is your DD in treatment?

It is great to see another Dad here Skelly

Hello to your wife too, hang in there  

WDx

[Mr. Dake]

Our daughter has been in treatment for many years.   One of her strengths is that she's very open to counseling.  She's been in equine assisted therapy for 8 years.  She had an amazing counselor for 7 years before he moved on in his life.  She's been in a substantially separate therapeutic classroom for the last two years with a very good counselor.  She had a neuro psych which she transitioned from a charter school to the therapeutic classroom.  She's been diagnosed with a mood disorder and with ADHD.  I'd have to relook at the diagnostic criteria but I believe that she meets the criteria for Oppositional Defiance Disorder and may fall under a Personality Disorder Not Otherwise Specified.  She has lots of anger, poor emotional management, and many behavioral issues.

Her behavior with my wife and I recently has been almost constant anger, insulting, threatening, name calling, and swearing.  It seems as though we are in a cycle of the worse her behavior is the more that she needs to blame us as she can't tolerate "being blamed for everything". 

She did talk to me twice yesterday.  My wife said that it's nothing new, but things that she says about me, but won't say to me.  There are so many cognitive distortions that its hard to know what to do with it.  It was clear that she doesn't let things go.  I was angry with her for running in the house and knocking my phone off of the counter and it breaking.  I was briefly angry with her many years ago and several phone ago when this happened.  She sounds like this happened last week. And, in her mind she was outside when it happened and didn't do it.   

Her phone broke recently when she was being physically aggressive which me which she constantly blames me for.   We're allowing her to earn the money to repair it.  I offered yesterday to bring her to the store to get it fixed which she declined.  While I don't care about being right, I'm also not going to take responsibility for things that I didn't do.   She talks out loud to herself and to our pets so we're subjected to a constant running commentary.   On the positive side, we tend to know what she's thinking.                   

Listening to her berate me, I felt like I was a punching bag.  It felt as though everything about me as a person offends her.   Everything that I say when I come home from work is wrong .   All of these bad motives: I don't care about anyone else, I think that my problems are worse than everyone else, I judge that I'm superior to everyone else, I haven't had the life experiences that other people have had, and on and on.    Objectively, I realize that all of this is being projected on to me.  It still hurts.

She kept attacking us for the entire day,  This is my one day off a week from work and I'd rather of escaped to work.  I did engage in less argumentation and she did talk to me more.   

[Harri]

Hi Dake.  That is a lot to take in and deal with. 

While I don't care about being right, I'm also not going to take responsibility for things that I didn't do.

Good, you don't want to admit to something that is not true.  How do you respond to her when she brings these things up or when she distorts facts?

Listening to her berate me, I felt like I was a punching bag.  It felt as though everything about me as a person offends her.

Can you elaborate a bit?  Are these running commentaries or random and intermittent comments she makes?

There is no reason to be someones punching bag.  The thing is,. getting her to stop or trying to will depend on you taking action to remove yourself when she is like that.  So tell us more about what you do when she is doing this.

lets see what we can figure out here to help you. 

[Mr. Dake]

HI Harri,

We had an awful weekend with our daughter.   She snapped out of it around 3:00 P.M. on Sunday.  She says a couple of things to save face and then acts as though nothing happened.  In order to escape my wife kept going out to her car.   This is less than ideal as it's winter in New England.  My wife  also went to the library.  We also both went upstairs to our bedroom which had the feel of being trapped in our own house.  Our daughter when she's on a tear will both keep saying things to us and about us.  If we respond she screams that we're not respecting that she doesn't want to talk about it.  What we think, but don't actually say, "then why don't you shut the bleep up".  She is not able to disengage.  Reflecting on the weekend, my thought is that we should have an exit strategy as she's safe to be home alone: the library, Starbucks, Panera, the mall; there are a variety of places that we could go.  I think that this has been hard for me as my tendency is to want to work through the conflict until its resolved not wanting to stay with conflicted feelings.  However, with our daughter while she's in a certain mood this will never happen anyway.  She will text with my wife and we can tell from her texts when she's ready to let something go.    This plan will be more intentional disengagement than what I've done when in this scenario.         

.       

[Mr. Dake]

My response of not adhering to my diet which was going very well was not a good coping mechanism; but I'm back on track today!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Music Ace]

Dake- take pleasure in the small things you can be in control of ... like your goal of eating properly.  I really respect how you can think out loud here ... it helps me get a true grasp of where you're coming from, where you're at, and where you want to be.

You recognize your part in the relationship and you allow yourself mistakes and room to grow.

You truly want the best for all of you and you are willing to he part if the change. And that is very evident from your posts.

Still smiling about your pride of getting back on track with your eating.  Look after what you can control ... especially if it involves taking good care of you.  CHECK!

Ace

[StressedOutDaily]

Dake,

Someone suggested to me that I create an emergency box for my car - with things in it like $20, a snack, a bottle of water, maybe a magazine or book - so if I need to escape my house for awhile I would be able to go to Dunkin (My preference over SBX   or I would have something to occupy me if I was just sitting in the driveway.

SOD

[smallbluething]

...

The things you're seeing from your daughter are soo common with our BPD kids. The info on this site about validation and handling conflicts are a good start, but will require practice to master.

Welcome Dake

I'm trying to learn better ways to communicate with my daughter too using tools like validation and 'row-your-boat'*. What Skellyll says above is very true - it does take practice but it can help. I have been failing a bit lately in my aim to let go and interfere less (my daughter is older so our situations are a bit different in some respects) but I know I need to double down on trying to change the way I've been doing things.

*The “Row Your Boat” system (because it’s sung to the tune of the song, “Row, Row, Row Your Boat”).

Breathe, breathe, safety first,
Acknowledge what you hear,
Don’t defend, delay instead,
Distract, defuse, or DEAR.

[Mr. Dake]

Thank you to all for the support, counsel, and encouragement.  It helps me a lot.   How emotional I'm feeling suggests that this is meeting an important need that I've been sorely lacking.  I'm reminded of when we participated in a NAMI group and got a lot out of the experience.

Similar to the NAMI group , it is a good feeling to participate in a group that understands what you're experiencing.  I worry that outsiders judge that we're bad parents.  I want to say, "look at our other two children.  They are doing okay."  On the other hand, professionals, friends and family will compliment us for our commitment to our daughter and unconditional love.  I feel embarrassed and undeserving of the praise and admiration.  Even when coming from my parents, two of the most loving people that I know.

Yesterday was snow day which makes for a low stress day for our daughter.  She handled the television breaking (not by her hand.  I judge that it should have lasted longer than 5 years), moved her television into the living room, and joked about how small it looked.  She often demonstrates a good sense of humor.

Again, thank you.                   

[Mr. Dake]

I think that I feel undeserving of praise and admiration because of how much I struggle,  the times that I fall short, and when I'm responding well I judge that I'm only doing what any loving parent should do.  Some times my wife tells me that it's hard to be you.  It's nearly always hard to be our daughter.     

[wendydarling]

Hi Dake

Thank you to all for the support, counsel, and encouragement.  It helps me a lot.   How emotional I'm feeling suggests that this is meeting an important need that I've been sorely lacking.  I'm reminded of when we participated in a NAMI group and got a lot out of the experience.

This is great to hear, it helps you a lot. It is so easy to lose track of our own emotional needs, we all need to talk and we all deserve support whatever our situation.

Hey continue fostering your DD's sense of humour,   it's a great way to emotionally connect, feel good factor.

I was wondering who you feel are judging you ~ 'outsiders', in addition to you judging yourself as you say?

WDx

[livednlearned]

This may be small consolation but I remember reading that BPD appears to peak at 16 in girls. Unfortunately I can't remember where I read that, altho most likely it was research connected to Blaise Aguirre who wrote BPD in Adolescence.

SD21 seems to get worse when there are transitions happening or sometimes even when those transitions are hinted at or just on the horizon. I wonder if your D is feeling the crush of expectations about college or at the very least graduation? She may be winding up for what a T once told us was a form of rejection fantasy, creating chaos that could be blamed for causing her to fall apart when she had to succeed at something. The "I hate you, don't leave me" conundrum. Your D also recently lost her long-time counselor which has to be hard. Did you notice her symptoms getting worse when he moved on?

When SD21 lives with us I imagine having a cup filled with compassion -- to interact with SD21, it needs to be filling. I do whatever self-care I need in order to keep that cup full, or try to fill it, and set limits to offset SD21's behaviors that drain it. When she lives with us I read Buddha and the Borderline or other books that remind me she has an emotional disability That does mean having structures in place that I don't have with anyone else and learning ways to phrase things to prevent things from getting worse.

I'm curious to hear more about your exit strategy. How does D16 respond when you or your wife leave the home or retreat to your bedroom? When she is dysregulated she likely reaches a boiling point and cannot be reasoned with and can't listen or problem solve or do anything except find a target for her anguish. In Loving Someone with BPD by Shari Manning, she describes the physiology of what happens to the brain and body during intense emotional arousal and it does seem to affect memory (an explanation, not an excuse) and other executive functions. The best thing may be to tell D16 (when she's relatively regulated) that you are not able to tolerate verbal abuse and when it happens, will take a time out until you feel able to engage again. That might mean leaving the home for a few hours or putting on headphones or whatever it might be.

With SD21 I notice that she exhibits worse behavior the minute I let a limit slide by. I thought we were in a relative easy stretch and was conceding ground only to realize that her behavior showed she lost respect for me. It's damned if I do, and even more damned if I don't and even when she doesn't like the limits, I almost sense relief under all that anguish. As if my limits help her have some, if even only temporarily.

[Mirsa]

Hi,

I just want to tag onto what LivednLearned said about clear boundaries and limits.  It definitely made my DD at age 16 feel safer and helped her to calm her behaviors over time.  Age 16 was indeed the worst for volatile, rageful behaviors.   Does she lose any priveleges when she rages like that?  I used to walk away from her and say, "I deserve to be treated with love and kindness and I'm not engaging with you until you are calmer."  This served as a reminder to me that her behavior wasn't okay or fair to me, and then also clearly stated the limitations for her.  After a rage-attack or tantrum, if she asked me for something, a ride, to have a friend over, etc., I generally declined.  I would say, "I love you, but after the way you spoke to me this morning, I'm not feeling inclined to go out of my way for you.  I love you, but if you want special favors from me, please treat me more kindly."   This did work, over time. 

Dake, I completely understand that hopeless feeling.  There was a long period of time when I felt completely trapped, like I was in prison, held hostage by my own kids, and there was no way out.  My therapist agreed in some ways...it wasn't like I could kick out a 16 yo or escape them.  Now that the BPD DD17 is out of the house (went to live with her father thank god), my life and home is so much peaceful.  It's like I got a "get out of jail card free" card! 

Hopefully your DD will go to college in two years and you can have some peace again.

[Sadnana]

I can so relate in so many ways. Our dd BPD was at her worst at 16. She was not diagnosed until 24. Those years were pure hell because as a Mom I knew something was seriously wrong but no one would listen. Everyone said it was teenage angst. I knew it was more. Anyhow fast forward and although things are still bad. I have learned to set clear boundaries which I present to her before chaos hits so she knows where I stand. This does seem to work. For example my Dd just left her own apartment ( hard to come by) to move in with her diagnosed BPD bf, he has 4 children with 2 different women and she has custody of her youngest child, her other 2 are in their fathers custody. I know this is going to end in disaster, to much experience in these situations unfortunately. So I said to her do you have an exit strategy if this fails because you can not move back home, she said yes she would go to a woman’s shelter and they would help her with housing. By clearly stating what my boundaries are,more than once she can’t come back at me crying saying I have no where to go. It kills me that this is 99% going to happen and I will have to stick with my boundary especially because of my gs but it is the only choice I have. There are no good answers with BPD however when she knows my boundaries before hand she does not rage at me anymore.

[Only Human]

Hi Dake,

How are things going lately?

I think that I feel undeserving of praise and admiration because of how much I struggle,  the times that I fall short, and when I'm responding well I judge that I'm only doing what any loving parent should do.  

I can really relate to this - it's difficult for me to see that what I'm doing is anything extraordinary. It's helped me to look back and see how I have changed, for the better, and to give myself permission to feel good about it. This also means I have to forgive myself when I fall short.

Thinking of you,

~ OH

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Mr. Dake]

I did manage to not defend myself when I was accused by my daughter of making three racist statements last night while we were watching The Hate U Give.  So, that's progress.  I did make one joking statement pertaining to race, which I do feel that I should have known better to have done.  She often does not get my humor, and this isn't a joking topic for her.  I can apologize for that.  It was uncomfortable watching the movie and joking is one of my coping mechanisms.  I fear that nothing I say or do will unring the bell that she views me as a racist as that as been one of her ongoing themes.  I see that I'm Mr. Dake on this forum.  Dr. D would be my rapper name (this is an example of the sort of thing that gets me in trouble).     

[Only Human]

Hello again,

So sorry for my delayed response, lots going on at my house these days!

I did manage to not defend myself when I was accused by my daughter of making three racist statements last night while we were watching The Hate U Give.  So, that's progress.

Well done! It's not easy to do, I know. Did you notice a difference in how the interaction went when you didn't defend yourself against her accusation?

I did make one joking statement pertaining to race, which I do feel that I should have known better to have done.  She often does not get my humor, and this isn't a joking topic for her.  I can apologize for that.

I like how you're acknowledging her perspective, looking back for ways to validate the valid.

I fear that nothing I say or do will unring the bell that she views me as a racist as that as been one of her ongoing themes.

I think many of us share this fear but you will see by reading here, there is a lot we can do to help our pwBPD begin to see us in a different light.

I wish I had more time here this morning - I'll try to get back on after work tonight.

Keep going, Dr. D!

~ OH