Does he want reason to live or justification not to? ~

[Moxie]

My BPDbf has suffered from suicidal thoughts/behaviors for several years now and has been creeping slowly towards following through.  He broke up with me a couple of weeks ago (again) and I will admit that I enjoyed the psychological break.  We saw each other at a dinner party held by mutual friends and he was aloof, but called me the next morning and left me a very kind message (and so the game begins).  We meet for coffee and have a decent evening, talking about nothing serious until the end of the evening when he does his usual baiting of me to bring up the subject of our relationship.  He spends the next hour and a half telling me all the things that I have done wrong and how I have disappointed him and how the last six years have been a complete waste for him as he cannot think of one redeeming aspect of our relationship.  I know better by now than to attempt to interject anything at all, so I just quietly take it yet again.  Then he dramatically says that this is the last time we will ever talk and leaves.

He calls the next morning.  I delicately tiptoe around his conversation, not knowing for sure what he's trying to accomplish.  He makes the magnanimous gesture of reluctantly agreeing to get together and we spend the next couple of days with at least a semblance of our normal communication and routine.  He feels that I have betrayed him repeatedly over the years by not "caring" enough for him and so has punished me by "keeping things private" so that he can remind me with frequency that I don't know anything important about him any more.

Last night we spend an uneventful evening together watching TV and then I go home.  He wakes me with a phone call at 1 AM.  He tells me that he got a piece of mail this past week that "changed everything".  It was from his life insurance company stating that suicide was now now covered under his plan.  He reminded me that the only reason he had been hanging on for as long as he has is because he wanted to make sure he had enough money set aside for his daughter, but now he doesn't have to worry and he can go ahead with his plan.  He went on to say what a great weight this has lifted from his shoulders and how he called me because even though he was relieved, he was also a little bit scared.  I have never managed to say the "right" thing when he has brought up taking his own life, and last night was no exception.  I said that regardless of how much money he left her, his daughter was never going to be "okay" if he father chose to leave her like that.  I came at it from a couple of other angles as well, but I have tried everything over the years, and no matter what I say or how I say it, he tells me I'm too "businesslike" and I'm treating him like a "transaction" and it's proof that I don't care about him and never did.  I have told him in times of calm that he knows that I am not a person prone to hysteria - that was once something he liked about me - and I was always going to try to maintain a calm tone in times of crisis.  It did not mean that I was treating it like a business transaction.  But it never seems to matter.  He became angry - as I believe he had been wanting to - and eventually hung up on me. 

As far as his stability goes, that letter was probably the worst thing that could have happened.  It removed the last excuse he had for trying to get better and he wanted me to make sure I knew it.  Frankly, I'd been banking on that for a while and now there are no barriers whatsoever and I am at a complete loss as to what to do.  Actually, I'm scared, if I'm honest.  He's systematically alienated himself from the few friends he had that provided support because they didn't validate his outlook and he's barely going to therapy.  Any suggestions? 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[Turkish]

Hello Moxie,

It sounds like he's taken the push-pull to a new level. I'm sorry that he's been doing that and then switching to emotional abuse mode recently. It sounds like you still care about him, and knowing his BPD diagnosis, it gives you some validation of how to specifically understand him.

It doesn't sound like an overt suicide threat, more of a waifish cry for help. Still, it something to take seriously. Other than continue with his push-pull dynamic, what can you do? Here is a discussion on SI and depression

Depression and Suicidal Ideation

We also have emergency protocols (the red emergency button at the bottom of each thread):

https://bpdfamily.com/discussions/search-info3.htm

When helping someone, remember:

1.    Take it seriously.

Myth: “The people who talk about it don't do it.” Studies have found that more than 75% of all completed suicides did things in the few weeks or months prior to their deaths to indicate to others that they were in deep despair. Anyone expressing suicidal feelings needs immediate attention.

Myth: “Anyone who tries to kill himself has got to be crazy.” Perhaps 10% of all suicidal people are psychotic or have delusional beliefs about reality. Most suicidal people suffer from the recognized mental illness of depression; but many depressed people adequately manage their daily affairs. The absence of “craziness” does not mean the absence of suicide risk.

“Those problems weren't enough to commit suicide over,” is often said by people who knew a completed suicide. You cannot assume that because you feel something is not worth being suicidal about, that the person you are with feels the same way. It is not how bad the problem is, but how badly it's hurting the person who has it.

2.    Remember: suicidal behavior is a cry for help.

Myth: “If a someone is going to kill himself, nothing can stop him.” The fact that a person is still alive is sufficient proof that part of him wants to remain alive. The suicidal person is ambivalent - part of him wants to live and part of him wants not so much death as he wants the pain to end. It is the part that wants to live that tells another “I feel suicidal.” If a suicidal person turns to you it is likely that he believes that you are more caring, more informed about coping with misfortune, and more willing to protect his confidentiality. No matter how negative the manner and content of his talk, he is doing a positive thing and has a positive view of you.

3.    Be willing to give and get help sooner rather than later.

Suicide prevention is not a last minute activity. All textbooks on depression say it should be reached as soon as possible. Unfortunately, suicidal people are afraid that trying to get help may bring them more pain: being told they are stupid, foolish, sinful, or manipulative; rejection; punishment; suspension from school or job; written records of their condition; or involuntary commitment. You need to do everything you can to reduce pain, rather than increase or prolong it. Constructively involving yourself on the side of life as early as possible will reduce the risk of suicide.

4.    

Listen.

Give the person every opportunity to unburden his troubles and ventilate his feelings. You don't need to say much and there are no magic words. If you are concerned, your voice and manner will show it. Give him relief from being alone with his pain; let him know you are glad he turned to you. Patience, sympathy, acceptance. Avoid arguments and advice giving.

5.    

ASK: “Are you having thoughts of suicide?”

Myth: “Talking about it may give someone the idea.” People already have the idea; suicide is constantly in the news media. If you ask a despairing person this question you are doing a good thing for them: you are showing him that you care about him, that you take him seriously, and that you are willing to let him share his pain with you. You are giving him further opportunity to discharge pent up and painful feelings. If the person is having thoughts of suicide, find out how far along his ideation has progressed.

6.    If the person is acutely suicidal, do not leave him alone.

If the person is acutely suicidal, do not leave them alone - drive the person to the nearest emergency department or other service facility. They may be hesitant - that is normal. The local suicide hotlines can advise you of the best facility.

If the situation is life threatening, or the person refuses to go for care, or you are unable to transport them, call 911.

Please do not use emergency medical services to teach anyone a lesson.

.

If the means are present, try to get rid of them. Detoxify the home.

7.    Urge professional help.

If someone is acting suicidal or talking of suicide, it is vitally important to get them into professional care at the first signs. Like many disorders, early detection and treatment yields better outcomes. Persistence and patience may be needed to seek, engage and continue with as many options as possible. In any referral situation, let the person know you care and want to maintain contact.

It may be hard with his moods switching from idealization to devaluation as they have been. You haven't been here too long. How are your validation skills? The info above gives some pointers, specifically for a person who's talking about suicide.

Sadly, we've seen quite a few pwBPD cry out for help like this. That you said he's isolated himself so much is concerning. Can you put in a call to a local crisis hotline near you? They might be able to talk you through what you can do, as well as give you tips to protect yourself at the same time. The call can be anonymous.

[Suzn]

I'm sorry Moxie, this is a terrible position you are in. It's scary for sure.

Turkish has given you some really good information. I wanted to also add this link, it's very good in depth information that will be very helpful. I would read the entire thread.

TOOLS: Dealing with threats of Suicide and Suicide Attempts

Let us know how you and he are doing.  

[Moxie]

Thanks to you both for your replies.  And I definitely appreciated the reference materials you provided.  I have always been "doubly stumped" about this dilemma because some of the recommendations, namely to remove means to commit suicide (esp firearms) or call 911 for assistance are not really applicable in our situation.  He is a law enforcement officer and so I cannot remove the firearm and his familiarity with all of the local law enforcement personnel and protocols give him the "upper hand".  He's dared me on several occasions to call 911 and said that by the time they arrived he would either already be dead or he'd be able to "schmooze" his way out of it.  He's likely correct on that score.  He also reminds me that as a responding officer to many suicides over the course of his career he has "learned by observation" the most effective means of completing the act successfully.

All of those things have kept me nervous and feeling isolated as I have felt cut off from resources, but as I was reading some of the articles provided, it occurred to me that perhaps that was his point.  He wants to put the entirety of the responsibility for his emotional well-being on my shoulders.  Cutting out others who could provide support could potentially be either a sign of suicidal intent or perhaps just another attempt to place me in the dual role of savior/destroyer.

I am very aware that what would be most helpful right now - at least for me - would be if I could continue some serious counseling to help me set better boundaries and learn the intricacies of validation, but I am without a job or insurance right now so that isn't possible.  Because of that I feel very fortunate to have found this resource.  So thank you to all of you who keep this excellent website moving along.  I will tell you that being able to put some of these experiences into words and know that they are being heard and understood by others is truly a blessing... .

[Turkish]

Given his profession, and probable ability to mask his behaviors behind a uniform, enabled by a brotherhood, what he's saying may be how it would turn out. If you report it to his superiors, it might trigger him more (or you'd be written off). You're not responsible for either his feelings or behaviors. My concern at this point is if you are safe.

[formflier]

My concern at this point is if you are safe.

Focus on this!

How many years has he been a police officer?

Is it a big department (large city)... .or a smaller place?

FF

[Moxie]

Thank you for the concern, but I don't believe that I am in any physical danger.  He is a threat to himself, but not anyone else, I strongly believe.  He has been a police officer for almost two decades and his department is not the least bit supportive.  In fact, they are adversarial.  A few years ago, he took a medical leave at my suggestion to try to get on the right medications and to spend additional time in therapy without the everyday stress of work, and through a strange bit of happenstance, his employers found out that his leave was related to a possible mental health issue and instead of supporting him to ensure he had the help he needed, they circumvented privacy laws to try to pry into his medical records (including therapy notes).  Instead of being able to focus on stabilizing, they made sure that he was worried for his job virtually the entire time he was on leave - which negated the leave.  While I understand an employer's liability concerns in this situation, what they did was beyond unethical and did not appear to have any value in protecting either the employee or "public safety".  So until his pension is secure in another couple of years, if he receives a higher level of help than outpatient, he will likely lose his job - which provides him with another avenue of being a "victim".  If ever I get frightened enough for him to make a call, he will be without a livelihood - which would inevitably lead to more depression. 

I understand that this disorder compels sufferers to create "vicious circle victim" scenarios, which my BF does routinely. Most of the time, I am able to take a step back and see where the logic of his arguments is flawed by his distorted viewpoint.  It doesn't mean that I can change his perception of situations, but at least I can hopefully validate his feelings without encouraging his incorrect viewpoint.  But when it comes to handling his safety, I feel like I am caught up in the excuse-making cycle because I can't seem to see a good way of handling it that doesn't ultimately make things worse.

I have called suicide hotlines for advice and haven't had success.  I researched resources particularly for law enforcement and found a hotline, which I called.  I had to leave several messages before receiving a call back.  I explained the situation and the woman said that she would try to connect me with one of their volunteers to provide some help, but that never happened.  It is challenging to tell my BF in times of crisis that he needs to reach out for help when even in times of non-crisis, I can't even find one for him.

Thanks to reading this message board, I am slowly breaking out of the isolated world that seems to grow around the BPD person.  I have put Turkish's reminder that I am not responsible for another's feeling or behaviors as my screen saver because it far too easy to forget.  So thank you for that... . 

[formflier]

 

Moxie,

I am a retired military officer.  Very familiar with trying to "hang on" until retirement... .

How many more years until he can retire?

There are two different things going on here... .him... and his issues... .

And the effect this is having on your... .how you are dealing with it.

Since you are here... .we'll be focusing most on you... .but we'll need to get a certain amount of his story and nuances... to make sure we have the correct view.

So... for now... .we'll assume no real treatment will happen for him... .for a while.  Is that a fair assumption... .for now?

How long have you guys been together?  

How often does he call or use a threat of suicide?

Hang in there... we educate you... so you can improve your situation... .

 

[Moxie]

Thank you, formflier - the need to "hang on" for the pension is a real issue that factors into many decisions right now.  He has just shy of three years left.  To answer you other questions:  we have been together (not married) for almost six years.  We each have a child from a previous relationship.  His is young and does not live with him but he sees her often and works hard to be a good father.  My daughter lives with me, is 17 and is the source of much conflict between him and I.  He feels that I have chosen not to integrate him into my "family" intentionally and as a show of disrespect to him.  I have admitted to shying away from integration while my daughter is still living at home, but I have not come right out and said that it is because of his instability - but it mostly is.

He calls with great frequency, particularly when we're fighting.  He becomes very agitated when I take a step back and tries to provoke a conflict.  I would say this cycle happens with more frequency lately - probably every two weeks or so.  As for his suicidality, that has manifested in several ways over the years.  At first, it was fairly rare, but intense.  Most often it involved a firearm, of course, but he's branched out in the intervening years by stockpiling pills from surgeries and also calling me from the train tracks thinking that might be an alternative. When he is particularly angry with me, he has expressed the intent to film his death so that both his mother and I would see it. 

My responses to him have evolved over the years as well - and I'm not sure if they're better or just different.  Years ago, I would panic and drive to him, no matter what I was doing.  I've left work and left my daughter at home with a 2am frantic call to my mother to baby sit just so I could get to him.  Then I started to educate myself and began reacting differently, not rushing to his aid (most of the time) but trying very hard to empathize and de-escalate him as much as possible over the phone.  Often, now, talking to me tends to get him more angry and agitated (as it did the other night), so I try to have very little inflection in my voice and do what I can to get off the phone and then spend the rest of the night praying that he can calm himself down - which he always has.  So far.

As is the case with most people referred to in this forum, there are plenty of times when he is quite a lovely, funny and kind man.  But it is impossible to rely on that behavior.  Making any kind of plans more than a day in advance is usually asking for an outburst.  Every vacation or trip we've gone on has started with at least one "drama episode".  I believe the stress of a different environment triggers him.  And as for the self-harming intent, I believe that being alone is his trigger - he has as much as said so.  He has yet to be married and very much wants to be.  He's frustrated with me for not moving forward in our relationship.

Anyway, I digress.  Although I know that with the right circumstances, virtually anyone can be capable of harming others, I do not believe that my BF is any more at risk of doing that than any other healthy member of society.  He has made a career of helping others and I do not believe would ever consider harming anyone other than himself.  If that were not the case, either I or one of his therapists would have reported the concern to his supervisors.  He does receive therapy, and has been going regularly since he first sought treatment about four years ago.  After I reached out to his therapist a couple of years ago over fears for his safety, he has "punished" me by stating that he no longer confides those things to her - which is all my fault.  He also takes medication, the benefit of which appears to be negligible, but he generally continues with the exception of a couple of days when he reaches a particular depressive low and he decides to discontinue.  With a few exceptions, I give him enormous credit for trying very hard to do what he's been told to do to get better - its just not working.

Anyway, I'm rambling.  But hopefully there's a little bit more information there that can help with any direction you (or anyone) might have to provide.  Thank you... .   

[formflier]

 

Moxie,

I'm glad you came back and posted more.  Good job answering.

To your knowledge... .has he ever taken any steps to move his suicide plans forward?  Take a pill... .actually cut himself... .things like that.

Or... .

Does he threaten to do those things... .and then calm down and the threats go away?

Please tell us a bit about your support network?  Family, friends, doctors, therapists, pastors... .etc etc

I'll be back with more later.

Big hugs      You are working through a lot.  It looks like you have figured out on your own that somethings work... and some don't... .good job on that.

bpdfamily has lots of resources to get you better educated about the disorder that is affecting your r/s (relationship).

ff

[Suzn]

Has the frequency of suicidal threats increased since he started meds? I know I've read about some that can increase  suicidal thoughts.

Handing him, or texting him, a suicide hotline number will put the tools in his hands to help himself. Shouldering the weight of this is traumatic for you. Nothing changes without changes.

Where do you see this relationship going?