He's called. They're Over. It's my fault.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Title says it all, really.

He's called me from a private number, very very angry.

Remember how, when this first happened, I forwarded the text messages to her in which he said she was a cocaine addict who sexually assaulted him? Also please remember that I am not proud of that and regretted it almost instantly. I wasn't trying to split them up - I really wasn't. I just couldn't cope with how he was invading my privacy, showing her my text messages, giving her my phone number so she could text me and tell me what a good laugh she had at them... I lost it and I had felt "Why should his privacy be sacroscant when mine is being betrayed so cruelly? Why should I sit here, covering for him, when he is doing this?". Not trying to justify it here - it was inexcusable - just saying where my head was at (a mess, in short) and that it hadn't been some calculated plan to split them up. Anyway...

They were still together after this. She was still sending me gloating messages (but receiving no replies from me) over a week after this. But...

He has just called me, furious. The gist of what he said: They've split up. She's dumped him. He's got no one now. My "little plan" worked. Her kids got hold of her phone and saw what he'd said about her and now don't want her having anything to do with him. So they're over. And it's all my fault.

I sympathised. I apologised profusely. I possibly JADE-ed a bit along same lines as at the start of this post. I said he would always have me, though that I accepted he probably hates my guts right now. I said he could probably work it out with her. I said that I had behaved badly in doing that and was sorry and take full responsibility for it. But I also said that, on his part, he did need to take some responsibility for having said those things about her in the first place - that, if he hadn't lied about her like that, she wouldn't have been able to find out that he'd done it, because there would have been nothing for her to find out. But, mostly, I just kept saying over and over "I am so so sorry! I never wanted that - I am so sorry!" He hung up.

[Bnonymous]

Title says it all, really.

He's called me from a private number, very very angry.

Remember how, when this first happened, I forwarded the text messages to her in which he said she was a cocaine addict who sexually assaulted him? Also please remember that I am not proud of that and regretted it almost instantly. I wasn't trying to split them up - I really wasn't. I just couldn't cope with how he was invading my privacy, showing her my text messages, giving her my phone number so she could text me and tell me what a good laugh she had at them... I lost it and I had felt "Why should his privacy be sacroscant when mine is being betrayed so cruelly? Why should I sit here, covering for him, when he is doing this?". Not trying to justify it here - it was inexcusable - just saying where my head was at (a mess, in short) and that it hadn't been some calculated plan to split them up. Anyway...

They were still together after this. She was still sending me gloating messages (but receiving no replies from me) over a week after this. But...

He has just called me, furious. The gist of what he said: They've split up. She's dumped him. He's got no one now. My "little plan" worked. Her kids got hold of her phone and saw what he'd said about her and now don't want her having anything to do with him. So they're over. And it's all my fault.

I sympathised. I apologised profusely. I possibly JADE-ed a bit along same lines as at the start of this post. I said he would always have me, though that I accepted he probably hates my guts right now. I said he could probably work it out with her. I said that I had behaved badly in doing that and was sorry and take full responsibility for it. But I also said that, on his part, he did need to take some responsibility for having said those things about her in the first place - that, if he hadn't lied about her like that, she wouldn't have been able to find out that he'd done it, because there would have been nothing for her to find out. But, mostly, I just kept saying over and over "I am so so sorry! I never wanted that - I am so sorry!" He hung up.

[Bnonymous]

She's been in touch. Apparently, it's not about those texts. It's about a couple I sent the same day, where I warned her what to expect. That sounds nasty and petty and controlling. It wasn't. It was a genuine sisterly solidarity thing thing. I don't expect anyone to believe that, but it's true.

I warned her about the violence and misogyny and emotional abuse. Because I genuinely thought she had a right to know. It wasn't ranting. It wasn't putting him down or trying to put her off. It was more or less "Take care. Don't tell him anything that makes you vulnerable too soon, because he may use it against you. If he hurts you and then tries to make you comfort him for it, don't buy that. Put yourself first. Don't let him shame you for crying - that will be the first red flag. Don't take any physical abuse and let him justify it on grounds of his childhood. Just.. take care."

That was that same day (I didn't reply after that, other than one single "leave me alone" text). And it was sincere.

She laughed it off and didn't pay it any attention and they were still together, with her sending me gloating messages about it, over a week after that point.

That was the same day as I forwarded the texts. Early on, before my head cleared enough to realise I had to stay out of it.

My guess is that she has subsequently seen the red flags for herself/firsthand, and that what I said is now meaning something to her for that reason.

I still deeply regret having sent her any messages though. And I'm paying for it now.

[Enabler]

Was anything you said untrue, embellished or incorrect?

Is it reasonable for you to have been hurt when he did what he did, maybe even retaliate?

Could you see how he might be projecting the  storm that he created on you?

Enabler

[Bnonymous]

No. That's the thing. I didn't say anything untrue or exaggerated. I regret involving myself at all. But it was all true.

Oh yes, he is absolutely doing that. It couldn't possibly be his fault even partly. Absolutely none of this is on his head, he's just A Nice Guy whom everyone is always out to get and ruining everything for and it's all so unfair. (In his view, I mean!)

He does tend to look at his part in things and own it eventually. But it takes him time. His initial and default reaction to anything is to adopt the injured innocent, victim of circumstances, why is the world against him when he's never done anything wrong, position.

Yes, it is transparent. But, nevertheless, my conscience isn't clear.

[I Am Redeemed]

I agree with enabler,

I think you are taking responsibility for more than you should. Perhaps it wasn't the best decision to send her his texts, but honestly, I think you are reacting much better than a lot of people would whose partner had been seeing someone else.

He started this mess. It sounds like she is not a very mature emotionally healthy person herself. Don't take responsibility for these two people not being able to work out a relationship that had a dubious success rate in the first place.

Focus on you, let him deal with the consequences of his own mess.

Redeemed

[Bnonymous]

Thanks, I Am Redeemed.

For all that I say about how I love him and how there's good in him...

I went to my neighbours' house (not to triangulate, just to be safe) and said "If you hear anything even slightly untoward from next door over the next few days, please don't shrug it off - call the police."

I even felt bad about that. But I know I had to do it. He is angry and alone and blaming me for all of it. And the chances that he could turn up here to take that out on me physically are... not remote. It's most likely not to happen, but the chances that it might are high enough to leave me feeling vulnerable and want to take steps to protect myself.

[Sandb2015]

Bnonymous,

Please protect yourself and be aware without the fear.

Is it fair to say that you did take some initiative regarding retribution?  I'm by no means judging, I totally get it and may have done the same with a different mind I have now.

If you weren't able to contact her in any way, what would you have done?

Don't regret what is done, just think it over and consider tomorrow and yourself only.  It's perfectly normal to want to "do something" when we have been wronged so unjustly.

Find some peace, bit by bit within yourself, by yourself or with close friends that will just listen, just listen for now...

[Bnonymous]

Thanks.

I would never have tried to track her down and tell her things. I would have left them to it. She shouldn't have had my number. I wouldn't have tried to get hers. (I'm not trying to justify myself, but I am trying to explain).

You know, while I "knew" he was cheating, he left his phone in the room with me when he went out. It was right there and unlocked, and I could have looked at it and found confirmation of what was going on. I knew that. It was tempting. But I didn't even consider doing it. I respected his privacy.

And it hurt like hell that he passed on my number without my permission, that he showed her my text messages, that he sat back and let her text me to laugh about all the romantic things I'd said while he was with her behind my back. I was very angry that my privacy was being violated like that when I had always had respect for his.

I hated the thought of him sitting there, so entitled, so filled with double-standards, so supremely confident that his privacy would never be violated, because he and only he was entitled to better than that.

And so I lost it and fowarded his text messages to her in which he lies that she's a cocaine addict who sexually assaulted him while he was unconscious.

Not proud of it. But it wasn't "retribution" for the affair. It was someone who had spent two years just taking endless double-standards and entitlement from him and just... finally lost it.

I always had to be "the bigger person" in the relationship. I always had to stick to my values and my conscience and treat him with respect, kindness, consideration, dignity, no matter what he did to me. And I had, in that moment, had my fill of how that had been exploited. He exploited it all the way through the relationship. He always relied on "No matter what I do to her, B's principles won't let her do it back to me, so I can get away with it" (that's how I felt anyway). And something in me snapped.

The texts "warning" her were something else. There was no hint of "retribution" in those. It was an absolutely genuine caring. I didn't want someone else to go into this blind and get subjected to the kind of abuse that I had been through without any clue that it was coming. I didn't want her, a few months down the line, to think that he was doing all of these things to her because of something wrong with her. I wanted her to know that this is him not her. I wanted her to be forewarned and forearmed and never ever to blame herself when the abuse started. It was genuine.

[Bnonymous]

I feel very angry now (towards him). And it's good.

Some people have to fight anger, get angry too easily, have to learn to combat it with compassion etc. My problem is the other way round. I find it very difficult to get angry. It doesn't come naturally to me. Compassion and sympathy come naturally to me, anger doesn't.

But a certain degree of anger is healthy and necessary. Anger is something I need to learn, not unlearn.

[Sandb2015]

Bnonymous ,

Anger is good, necessary, I'm the same, a hundred mile long fuse and maybe twice in my life did it hit full length.  Anger is so difficult and we do different things to stuff it which becomes a meditation exercise in itself

You sound very caring...you don't want someone having a similar experience, that's very clear.

Take a step back from this for a little while where you are caring, compassionate, sympathetic to yourself.

Be angry, break something, bang some pots together until your ears ring, scream until your throat hurts...shut everything out and focus on you just for a little peace just for you.

[Bnonymous]

Thanks sandb2015.

The whole thing just gets weirder...

She's been texting me some more, and... You know what? I'm actually starting to quite like her... She's said some amazing, honest things. She told me that, when he was talking about me to her the other night, he said he wanted to smack me in the face and she said that this was a huge red flag for her. She said she works with DV victims and she will not be a hypocrite. But she is going to go and talk to him tomorrow and see what he says.

She's alright, you know. She's actually alright. And a damned sight tougher than I am - maybe they'll be able to make this work? I feel... Good.

Yeah, focus on me, I know. I just... Feel good. I like liking people. It feels good to like people. I like that there is good in her too. It makes the world feel like a much better place than it felt a couple of weeks ago.

[I Am Redeemed]

It's very likely that he painted a very different picture of your relationship to her, and gave her a false impression of you. Of him too, probably. Maybe things aren't adding up, and now she's trying honest communication with you due to seeing red flags with her own eyes.

Redeemed

[Bnonymous]

Thanks, I Am Redeemed.

Just when I think the whole thing can't get any stranger, it does.

She has just texted me saying "Will you take him back if I walk away? I feel that you can handle him better than me."

I kid you not.

[Skip]

Are you still hoping to reconnect with your ex-boyfriend?

How do you feel your multiple exchanges with his current girlfriend will ultimately effect the ability to have a cont9inued relationship?

[Bnonymous]

I don't think there is any possibility of building a relationship with him again after talking with J like this. But I think, despite how very much I miss him and how painful it will be to face a future without him, this was more important. I think J and I have given each other more honesty and kindness today than he has ever given, or ever will give, either of us. Our conversation was more real than our relationships with him.

[Bnonymous]

I bought him a cushion cover for our anniversary with John Legend "all of you loves all of me" quote on. It's just turned out he has given it to her and told her it took him ages to find the right gift.

Our talking was the right thing to do, because he can't play either of us anymore.

I'm in shock. I'm physically shaking. But I have just done what Cat Familiar said in one of my earlier threads and ripped the plaster off.

There really can be no going back now. I really truly believed it was all real. Turns out it wasn't.

[Bnonymous]

Apparently, she had ended it last night. And she sent him my number (because he'd got rid of it) and told him to go back to me because I love him. When she first contacted me today, I told her to go back to him because he loves her.

It reminds me of the story of Solomon and the question of who was the child's real mother.

We loved him. We both genuinely loved him. We each loved him so much that we tried to help him find happiness with the other.

He didn't love either of us. But we loved him.

I don't know how to even begin to process this. I hope J and I will become friends of a sort. Because I don't think there is anyone better placed to help each of us through this than the other.

[Enabler]

There certainly won't be many people you meet other than her and the boards that will 'get' this situation and your experiences over the years. You may well find some mutual connection with her.

Do you feel these conversations are giving you a great sense of closure?

Enabler

[Bnonymous]

Not sure about closure yet. I think they may help me on that road.

At the moment, I am struggling to process how very much has changed, how many changes there have been, how quick these have been...

I was always struggling to catch up. When we were talking to the psychiatrist (the last time I saw S), we'd talked about S's dysfunctional romantic history and the psych asked me how things were with us. I said something like "I don't know because it's always changing. There's no stability. Just when I think I've got my head round how things are, they change again. Before I get chance to process one thing, another thing happens."

It was like that in the relationship and it's been an on-steroids version of it in the break-up.

Just a week ago, he was the person in the world I most wanted to hear from and she was the last person in the world I wanted to hear from. And that has almost reversed now. I can't wrap my head around the speed of developments. I really can't.

I am now in the very weird position of hoping, for her sake, that she doesn't crack and take him back. And hoping, for his sake and for mine, that she does...

Because I don't want him back now. I am not minimising any of what I have said before - I feel his absence so acutely, the grief is terrible, worse than when my dad died - that isn't going to change quickly. But...

I know now that my fantasy of total forgiveness and moving forward focused on the good and on making things better was (and could only ever be) a fantasy. I couldn't forgive all of this. And it would never feel real again. The trust has completely gone now. Trust in him, trust in my own perceptions of him and of us, trust in what we had... It's gone and could never come back. It would all feel fake now.

And I imagine him touching me and... I think my skin would crawl. I think I'd cringe and pull away.

I don't want to go there. I don't want to take him back, because it really couldn't work now. For either of us.

Yet I still cannot bear the thought of him alone. I still cannot imagine myself turning him away if he turns up crying. I think I would end up taking him back even though I no longer want to and no longer think it would be the right thing.

And so... I hope for my sake that she takes him back. Though she deserves so so much better (as do I).

And it's all so hard to wrap my head around.

When he called me yesterday, it was from a private number. That says so much. It says to me that his attitude is "When I want to talk to you I expect you to be there. But I will not give you a way to get hold of me for when you want to talk to me".

[Perdita]

Bnonymous ,

I don't think you have anything to feel bad about.  You were provoked at a time when he and this woman knew you were already hurting and vulnerable.  I am sure we've all done things we'd never thought we would due to being in a r/s with a bpd person.

As for the Lennon gift that he gave her ... I have no words.  That is the kind of thing that hurts so much too.

As for her, be cautious about how much you share with her.  They might have split but who is to tell what will happen down the road?  Let her yap away but try not to give out too much information from your side. 

[Enabler]

Sounds like you're getting yourself to a better place with greater insight into you actual reality. You're able to see through his lies and his behaviours and things are slotting into place. You'll not be correct about all things but it seems like you have vastly greater clarity.

I'm sure that your ex feels adrift in an ocean... but, this is a problem that he has created and only he can really sort that out for himself.

Enabler

[Bnonymous]

Thanks guys.

She texted. They've talked. He admitted the cushion cover he gave her was a gift from me, but said the words were how he feels about her. She's taken him back and they're giving it a go. He doesn't want her to talk to me anymore and she has to respect his wishes.

This is all so hard to keep up with!

[Cat Familiar]

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