Struggling

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My H is dysregulating and raging more frequently.  I didn't handle it well last week (I didn't yell back or anything and remained calm, but I thoroughly failed and did LOTS of JADE-ing).  The initial target of his rage both last week and the beginning of this weekend is my dad/parents.  My dad was diagnosed within the last 6 weeks with pancreatic cancer and just finished his second chemo infusion.  This "started" last weekend when my dad was feeling light headed, but refused my H's help to stack wood (my dad, for better or worse, is totally OCD about things, especially stacking wood).  My H has taken this as proof that my dad (and therefore both parents) do not view him as family and have abandoned him.  My H's sentences are literally contradicting each other (they won't ask him for help, but he is also their "errand boy", for example).  I try to listen, and ask questions so I can understand what he's saying.  By asking questions, I am telling him he's wrong (I did not say or intimate that at all).  So I said I would just listen (and validated his feelings; his statements are NOT valid, so I'm sticking with just the emotions behind them).  That's not good enough because he wants to have a "real conversation" with me.  I have been so deeply depressed this fall, plus the stress of a busy work season, little kids and, you know, one of the people I am closest to having a serious, most likely fatal diagnosis...  I just can't find it in me to care about what he's talking about (his words "everyone in my entire life has abandoned me"  "I want them to feel the pain I'm feeling and I have every right to do that").  I am all about not making it worse, and I am implementing the tools here (MUCH better at not JADEing this past week; listening with empathy, validation - not perfect, but I'm doing pretty well if I do say so myself).  I did get upset and didn't use my self-named "therapist voice" when he was ramping up the suicidal ideation, but quickly calmed down and apologized for my increased volume.  I try to sneak away for some self care once the kids are in bed (reading or watching a brief show on my iPad), and he finds me and is freaking out - about my lack of concern, my parents "abandonment", friends "abandoment", other stuff that happened months ago.  Are there any further suggestions people can help me with?  I'm so tired of being bombarded by his rage for the last 11 1/2 years. 

[Ray2017]

My H is dysregulating and raging more frequently.  I didn't handle it well last week (I didn't yell back or anything and remained calm, but I thoroughly failed and did LOTS of JADE-ing).  The initial target of his rage both last week and the beginning of this weekend is my dad/parents.  My dad was diagnosed within the last 6 weeks with pancreatic cancer and just finished his second chemo infusion.  This "started" last weekend when my dad was feeling light headed, but refused my H's help to stack wood (my dad, for better or worse, is totally OCD about things, especially stacking wood).  My H has taken this as proof that my dad (and therefore both parents) do not view him as family and have abandoned him.  My H's sentences are literally contradicting each other (they won't ask him for help, but he is also their "errand boy", for example).  I try to listen, and ask questions so I can understand what he's saying.  By asking questions, I am telling him he's wrong (I did not say or intimate that at all).  So I said I would just listen (and validated his feelings; his statements are NOT valid, so I'm sticking with just the emotions behind them).  That's not good enough because he wants to have a "real conversation" with me.  I have been so deeply depressed this fall, plus the stress of a busy work season, little kids and, you know, one of the people I am closest to having a serious, most likely fatal diagnosis...  I just can't find it in me to care about what he's talking about (his words "everyone in my entire life has abandoned me"  "I want them to feel the pain I'm feeling and I have every right to do that").  I am all about not making it worse, and I am implementing the tools here (MUCH better at not JADEing this past week; listening with empathy, validation - not perfect, but I'm doing pretty well if I do say so myself).  I did get upset and didn't use my self-named "therapist voice" when he was ramping up the suicidal ideation, but quickly calmed down and apologized for my increased volume.  I try to sneak away for some self care once the kids are in bed (reading or watching a brief show on my iPad), and he finds me and is freaking out - about my lack of concern, my parents "abandonment", friends "abandoment", other stuff that happened months ago.  Are there any further suggestions people can help me with?  I'm so tired of being bombarded by his rage for the last 11 1/2 years. 

[sweetheart]

I can hear in the little bits of what he is saying to you that there is fear and upset behind his ranting.
I suspect he too is devastated by your father’s diagnosis in his own way, he is hurting because you are understandably not yourself,  but because he just can’t keep his emotional processes inside they are spilling out everywhere via this current episode of dysregulated behaviour.

Ray2017 do you know what SET is? Have you had time to have a look and read the resources?
Have a look here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0

And here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0

What questions are you asking?

It’s good to hear you have managed some self care in amongst all that is going on for you.

Do you have a T, you mention your ‘therapist voice?’

[Cat Familiar]

I am so sorry about your father’s diagnosis and hope that he responds well to the chemo. I sense that you’re a strong stoic person and that your husband is fearing that you won’t be his “rock” now, considering all that you are dealing with.

Perhaps it is time to be your own “rock” and not participate in your husband’s issues. You don’t have to ask him questions to further elicit what he means. Perhaps he doesn’t know what he means and you asking him seems confrontational.

Also it might be a good time to implement boundaries as part of your self care. Remember you have to put on your own oxygen mask before you help others.

[Ray2017]

I do have a T, but y “therapist” voice comes more from
His T. I think he’s fine my T way too chatty. I also do try and use SET. I’ve found that my H sees through this and focuses on the Truth portion, proving that I’m telling him he’s wrong (I’ve tried mixing the order up to soften the Truth portion- that doesn’t work either). So I use it judiciously and sparingly. I have absolutely no doubt that he’s having a hard time coping with a disheartening diagnosis, and therefore turning his pain outward. He wants everyone to hurt as much as he does- he says this outright. I’m trying to be sympathetic and empathetic, but his reactions are getting to be too much, too constant. My conundrum (and question, I guess) if I’m using the tools (don’t JADE, use SET when appropriate, listen with empathy) he still gets upset. If I say I’ll just listen if he needs to vent, he gets upset. If I try and remove myself from a circular conversation, he starts raging and follows me. What are my next steps or options if the above are not working, and haven’t really been working over the last 6 months that I’ve been using them? How do I detach even more so his nasty comments about my parents don’t trigger my response, which I then shove down to keep the peace and not make things worse?

In that line- I do think Cat did answer my question. There’s inevitable fallout if I detach with love, but I know the pattern- the SI (and HI) will ramp up, he’ll come crashing down, and we start over. I’m just tired of the pattern. Im very much conflicted about this relationship (why I’m posting here and not Bettering). And I’m kind of hoping I’m missing something tool-wise that can help. Sorry I’m so jumbled in my thoughts- I sneak this website and only have moments to get this stuff out, so I’m sure it’s not entirely coherent. I do appreciate everyone’s efforts to help, and the listening ears (or reading eyes).

[Ozzie101]

I'm so sorry, Ray. That's a lot to deal with. I can't imagine struggling with a potentially fatal diagnosis for one of my parents, plus kids, plus a dysregulating H.

Anyway, I don't have a lot of advice to share since I struggle with the same thing but I wanted to let you know you're not alone. I, too, try to use tools, try to get away, try to validate, only to have him follow me or turn things around.

Cat's right. You need to take care of yourself in this time. One thing I'm trying to work on is detaching emotions. When H is upset about something, I'm working on not being drawn in -- and having some success. This is something he's upset about. Let him be upset. I don't have to be upset, too. He's trying to make me (or others) responsible for his emotions and feelings.

How do you try to remove yourself? What do you do or say?

Like I said, I don't really have advice to share. I'm still working on this one like you are. But I just want you to know you're not alone.

[Ray2017]

Thanks, Ozzie. I have been following your recent posts because they resonate so much.  I did take Cat’s advice and detached (kindly) last night. He didn’t want to eat dinner (I privately call it his hunger strikes when he refuses to eat), so the kids and I ate at the table anyway, and had a good  time. He went upstairs because he found it upsetting. I didn’t follow. A part of me feels mean doing this, but more than anything I want my kids to have as much normalcy as possible. I reminded myself that he is free to join us if he wants. Felt a bit steadier after that, and it not turning into threats of suicide (as it often does) was a help, too. Now to remember that the next time, and the next... That’ll be the trick.

I appreciate these boards so much because I get lost in my own mental chaos, and hearing a voice of reason (and so simple- take care of you. Duh!) was what I needed to hear.

[Ray2017]

I think I need a pep talk today, and perhaps if I type this out, it'll help cement it in my mind (and if anyone else wants to be blunt with me, too - I feel I need it).  No raging today, but he's on a downward slope.  Our son has a cold, and won't go to preschool so he doesn't get the other kids sick.  I'm at work, so my H is home with him and doesn't get the 2 1/2 hour kid-free break school provides.  He works tomorrow, then is home with our son Friday (no preschool Friday).  He feels overwhelmed because he (please note it's always singular) can't "catch a break".  Friends dropped off dinner for us, and he found out they made it for my parents, but because my dad's stomach issues from chemo, they kindly refused it.  The friends then brought it to us instead.  I was ecstatic - I didn't have to cook dinner!  My H is upset because they clearly didn't care about him because they didn't make the dinner specifically for us (him), even though the friends KNOW he's been struggling, so this is absolute proof these friends don't actually care about him(I am not paraphrasing).  This is a huge trigger for me.  Kindness is kindness in my book - I don't care how or where it comes from.  So, I listened and validated his feelings only; used SET to gently remind him other friends dropped off a box of cupcakes, etc. the same day specifically for us because they know we've been having a hard time mentally since the cancer diagnosis (they specifically used the plural).  I then steered the conversation to practical help I could provide - I can arrange my schedule to be home from work early and take over the sick kid duty; I arranged for a friend to watch our son for part of Friday to give my H a break, I'll be home all weekend, as I always am (in reality: I'm doing these things for our son/kids.  I don't like leaving them at home alone with my H when he's having these bad days.  I dread school vacation time). 

Now that this is the background of today (and I know, it's nothing dramatic or totally out of line), I am trying to repeat to myself, mantra style - his feelings are his own.  My feelings are my own.  Over and over.  I guess perhaps I'm looking for further advice on detaching (and I'll go into the Tools section and re-read some workshops, too), because in reality - this exact situation/conversation has been going on for YEARS.  He is not going to change (this makes me so sad).  Only I can change me and my reactions.  I know this cognitively, but really putting it into practice has been a struggle.  If I wake up to my kid's coughing and fever in the middle of the night, I wish my first thought was about my child's physical ailment and not how we'll get through the day because my H views this as the universe further punishing him.  And I know that mindset change is on me.  Just need to find practical steps on how to actually do it. 

[Ozzie101]

I wish I had practical advice, but I'm kind of where you are -- trying to figure it all out.

I'm doing better in some ways, yet in others, like you, my first thought goes to how H will handle things. Yesterday, I got an update/change on the family Christmas Eve thing from my mom. My mind immediately went to how H might interpret it. I texted him the info, but was nervous the rest of the day until I saw him. As I drove home, I gave myself a mental talk: "How he reacts is how he reacts. You know how you feel about this. Stay positive. Keep it light. Be matter-of-fact. Don't show any anxiety." I did a pretty good job with it and he didn't say much about the dinner changes. Now, this doesn't mean it won't come back up, but I'm feeling more secure in what I will say.

Sometimes that helps me, to have multiple "scripts" in mind. Think through what he might say or what his responses might be and know, in my head, how I will respond in each case. I'm someone who does better when I can think things through, not acting on the fly. Do you think that might work for you?

You're right. It's easy to know something, but not always to know it. And when we're dealing with a lot of stress and emotions, it's even harder.

You're not alone!

[Ray2017]

Thanks, Ozzie.  I do feel like I know his usual responses by now, so having a script in mind is a good idea (totally get the nervous anticipation driving home).  I normally approach it with a mantra of keeping calm and listening.  I tend to obsess about things (can you tell? ), so I have to keep a tight rein on thinking stuff over.

When my dad was first diagnosed, I felt like I had decided I should stay in this relationship - my H was really putting in an effort to be supportive, and he was being really helpful with my parents (which, frankly, I think takes priority right now).  Now that he's back in the dysregulation/rage cycle, and says he's not going to support my parents, I'm questioning my choice.  I have a ways to go to see if I can successfully detach (see all of the above) and maintain a sense of normalcy for the kids and myself.  But I don't know if I really even want to keep observing his perpetual victim-hood and spirals for the rest of my life.  That's why I'm posting here on the Conflicting board.  Terrified of making that decision; don't know if it's proper that I still see major areas of work for myself before I make "THE" decision, or if it's just stalling because I'm afraid.  I guess my T and I will have a lot to chat about in our future visits.

[Ozzie101]

That is a lot to handle.

One thing I've been told many, many times is to never make major decisions when you're feeling emotional. We'll often end up making a choice that's unwise, or one we'll regret. Better to continue to evaluate the situation and then make the final determination when times are calmer.

Your life is in a very stressful phase at the moment. Your ambivalent feelings are perfectly natural under the circumstances. But your "stalling" may be the wisest thing you could do right now. Not that I'm an expert!

[Ray2017]

Thanks for the reassurance, Ozzie.  I don't feel prepared to make any decisions, but I do tend to be a procrastinator when it comes to jumping into difficult things/decisions.  I appreciate you being there for me. 

[SinisterComplex]

Ray, I understand the procrastination for sure. What I would like to add here is that sometimes when we procrastinate we already know the answer, but it isn't the answer we want so we keep pushing it off. Listen to your instincts and intuition.

No snap decisions need to be made. Just make sure when coming to a decision that is something you ultimately want and something you believe in, and won't regret. If you go into a decision nervous then take more time because that means you are not ready to proceed.

Do what is in your best interest.

Cheers!

-SC-