Leaving wife with my children?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi,

After years of confusion and pain, I have finally arrived at the conclusion that my wife has BPD. Our last two marriage councilors suggested that this might the case. One of them recommended Kreger's book - The Essential Guide - and I now feel fairly certain that I know what I am dealing with. It is a relief, in some ways, to have a name. I don't feel so crazy and alone. My wife is definitely in the high-functioning invisible category. She has not been diagnosed by a psychiatrist. I am just going on my own anecdotal evidence. She refuses to acknowledge or even hear that she might need help.

This new realization has come about while I have been trying decide if I should leave her. Now I am in a quandary, I want to leave her (I am totally exhausted) but we have two young children. I can't stand the thought of not living with them. I know that my wife will do everything possible to keep custody (possibly even slander me). I have stayed in the relationship over the years, in large part, to provide safety and stability for my children. I guess my questions now are as follows:

Has anyone had success in convincing a spouse with BPD to seek treatment? How? Every time I broach the subject, she turns it back on me and tells me that I am the one that needs help. Since I have brought up BPD, she now accuses me of having BPD.

If I do leave, what is the likelihood that my wife will begin transferring her BPD tendencies onto my children? So far, she has been a pretty great mom... .

Should I leave? I feel like I have already decided. I can't imagine continuing a life like this with her. My children deserve to have at least one happy parent. Right?

Anyway, help.

Thank you.

W.

[Mr. W]

Hi,

After years of confusion and pain, I have finally arrived at the conclusion that my wife has BPD. Our last two marriage councilors suggested that this might the case. One of them recommended Kreger's book - The Essential Guide - and I now feel fairly certain that I know what I am dealing with. It is a relief, in some ways, to have a name. I don't feel so crazy and alone. My wife is definitely in the high-functioning invisible category. She has not been diagnosed by a psychiatrist. I am just going on my own anecdotal evidence. She refuses to acknowledge or even hear that she might need help.

This new realization has come about while I have been trying decide if I should leave her. Now I am in a quandary, I want to leave her (I am totally exhausted) but we have two young children. I can't stand the thought of not living with them. I know that my wife will do everything possible to keep custody (possibly even slander me). I have stayed in the relationship over the years, in large part, to provide safety and stability for my children. I guess my questions now are as follows:

Has anyone had success in convincing a spouse with BPD to seek treatment? How? Every time I broach the subject, she turns it back on me and tells me that I am the one that needs help. Since I have brought up BPD, she now accuses me of having BPD.

If I do leave, what is the likelihood that my wife will begin transferring her BPD tendencies onto my children? So far, she has been a pretty great mom... .

Should I leave? I feel like I have already decided. I can't imagine continuing a life like this with her. My children deserve to have at least one happy parent. Right?

Anyway, help.

Thank you.

W.

[Turkish]

What did you get out of the book,  did you take a look at the communication tools?  More are in the lessons in the right margin of this board. 

How old are your kids,  and what's you're view on how they are taking the conflict ?

It's generally not a good idea to toss out a diagnosis, but it's out there.  I did the same in the beginning,  so I'm not judging you. 

What are your biggest struggles with her? 

[formflier]

I want to leave her (I am totally exhausted)

I'm glad you found us.  Many of us know all too well the feeling of exhaustion that you are feeling.  That's a tough place to be... .and an even tougher place to make big decisions from.

Perhaps it is best to set aside (for now) the staying or leaving decision.  I hope you can find time to regularly come to this site and learn more about this thing called BPD that you are trying to sort out.

Do you have any experience learning a foreign language?  If so, likely good for you to consider learning about BPD the same way.  Lots of stuff will seem weird to you... .at first.

Hang in there... .we can help.

FF

[lpheal]

Should I leave? I feel like I have already decided. I can't imagine continuing a life like this with her. My children deserve to have at least one happy parent. Right?

Thank you for sharing your story. I feel like I am in a very similar place to you, and could have written those lines above myself. My biggest concern is the well-being of our two year old child (and wanting to be a daily presence in their life).

Finding this site and reading about others who have had the same experiences already feels like I am not continuing my life as it was before.

Whether we are together or apart, we have a child together and I need to develop the communication skills with my wife so we can raise our child successfully.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Mr. W, Welcome!  I was once in your shoes, with two kids and a wife w/BPD, and nothing left in the tank, so-to-speak.  No, I doubt you can convince your spouse to seek treatment, unless she decides on her own to get help.  I agree w/FF and suggest you leave the diagnosing to professionals, because the message is likely to be poorly received, as you've already discovered.  In any event, there's no magic bullet.  Whether to stay or leave is a question we can't answer for you.  I would suggest that it boils down to determining, after a lot of soul searching, what is the right path for you, which can be difficult to discern in the throes of a BPD r/s.  Your story is quite familiar, so we get where you are and what you're going through.

LuckyJim

[teapay]

Yes, my W has been in treatment, but mainly because it go so bad.  Larger forces and circumstances brought that about and she didn't have much choice.   It's probably harder to convince someone who is high functioning who might have some traits but isn't incapacitated by it.  It your W is high functional and a good mom doesn't that alay some big problems.  What makes you think she will turn on the kids.

[Kelli Cornett]

So many tough things going on. Many of us are in a similar place.

Even high functioning BPD's end up having an effect on their children (seen it first hand).
Girls of BPD mothers have a much higher instance of becoming BPD themselves due to the genetic and environmental factors (as well as a higher instance of bonding issues with an emotionally unavailable mother), and boys tend to acquire codependent tendencies as they never feel like they get the love and emotional 'thereness' that they crave.

Take one day at a time, and sometimes don't forget to just breathe.

[Mr. W]

Thank you for all of the thoughtful responses.

The kids are seven and five. They are very aware of conflict in our home. I am sure that it is affecting them negatively and this is part of the reason that I feel that I can no longer continue on the path that we are on.

The communication tools in the book are very wise and useful. Most of them have been recommended by previous marriage councilors, in some form or another. I have done my best to practice these tools while occasionally succumbing to frustration and a tendency to freeze my wife out when it gets to be too much - which only makes things worse... .

My biggest struggles with her involve her constant anger/resentment and rage. She has frequent outbursts of rage that are very difficult to endure. During these episodes, she will say (yell) horrible things to me/about me. This will sometimes occur in front of the children. When the storm has passed, there is no recognition or acknowledgment that anything hurtful was said or done. Maybe I'll get a pithy "Sorry I yelled at you, but you were blah blah blah".

Then there are the wildly unpredictable mood swings. Either everything is perfect and harmonious or there is an undertone of anxiety/resentment/anger that pervades. There is very little middle ground and the switch between the two can be quite sudden.

She feels threatened by anything that I like and might take time away from her. She had decided that my friends (they used to be her friends too) are her enemies and that even some of my hobbies and interests (if they do not directly involve her) are a threat to the marriage. I have become more and more isolated.

There is more, but, based on what I have been reading here, I am sure that you are familiar with this story.

It sounds like there is not much that I can do to get her to seek help.

She has been a very good mother (excluding the obvious downside of them seeing her interact with me in negative ways). She loves them fiercely. She is smart and generally makes good decisions with regard to them. I have no reason to think that she will turn on the kids. I am just curious if anyone has experience with leaving a BP when they have children? If she ends up with custody and I am not there on a daily basis to take the brunt of her behavior, is there a chance that she will begin to transfer these behaviors onto our children?

I doubt very much that I would get full custody in a divorce. The courts tend to favor the mom and, since there is no diagnosis, there would be no legal grounds. I worry that, without me there, my children will be more subject to the whims of the disorder. Is this worry legitimate? Again, she is pretty high functioning and she cares a great deal for the kids. For the moment, I seem to bear the brunt of her bad behavior. I am her trigger. 

I wish I could set aside the leaving or staying decision. I just don't know if I can anymore. Right now, it feels like I would just be delaying the inevitable. I already tossed out "the diagnosis" and I now know that this was probably not the best approach. I have indicated that I am ready to leave if she doesn't seek help. This sounds like a threat and I hate that it sounds this way, but it is the truth too.
 
Again, thanks everybody for responding. I am trying to remember to breath.    It is really nice to know that there are others out there like me.

[Turkish]

Mr. W,

You're asking the right questions, analyzing your situation,  and seem to have a good grasp on a lot of angles.  Even so,  it's hard to predict outcomes.  Maybe this discussion can help:

Staying/Leaving for the kids?

Having concerns that she may turn on the kids is valid.  It may not be overt.  Due to who I am,  who she is,  and also how I handled leaving (thanks a lot to the tools and support here), I get along with my ex.  After two years together,  and only after a few months of marriage and cohabitation, my ex turned on her H. From what I see,  it's parental alienation of him,  a step-parent, while still married.  The kids were 1 and almost 4 when she left.  They are now coming up on 6, or daughter 4. They witness an unhealthy dynamic (recently domestic violence). I have them half the time.  I focus on the three of us,  and as sad as I still am sometimes that we aren't an intact family,  I'm free to parent without walking on egg shells. 

Legally,  we can't predict a custody outcome,  but the courts are better than they were even a decade ago,  where the standard paternal custody was one overnight during the week and every other weekend.  Regarding a diagnosis,  even that may not hold much sway in the courts. 

My ex is high functioning.  S6 has said for a year that he'd rather stay with me all of the time.  About a year ago,  D4 started indicating she'd rather stay with her mom.  I don't think it's anything over Mom is doing.  There are a lot of subtle factors at play here. 

Take a look at the discussion I linked,  and tell us your thoughts in general. 

[formflier]

Since you are new to bpdfamily and are weighing both sides of the staying/leaving decision, I would encourage you to set a date to review things in a couple months.

Dedicate yourself to learning what we have to offer.  Stay or go... .it will benefit you in your relationship with your kids' mom and your kids.

Why set a date?  That will get you away from weighing the big question every day.  You will be able to focus on your learning and your relationships.

At the future date, list pros and cons.  Pay specific attention to areas that seem to be improving and areas that seem to be getting worse.  

The real question is "How has my change of behavior affected the r/s?"  "Can I reasonably expect further change in the r/s due to my decisions and behavior changes?"

Personal note:  The staying leaving thing is intensely personal.  One of the reasons I stay, is that I have a front row seat to how divorce goes in my wife's family.  My sister in law is much worse than my wife (lower functioning and stays angry longer... .very vindictive)  2 of my 3 nieces and nephews are pretty much ruined.  Arrests, drug use, premarital sex, suicide ideations, flunking school... .

Not all my SIL fault... .BIL hasn't "fought" as hard in court as I thought he should have.


FF

[lpheal]

She has been a very good mother (excluding the obvious downside of them seeing her interact with me in negative ways). She loves them fiercely. She is smart and generally makes good decisions with regard to them. I have no reason to think that she will turn on the kids. I am just curious if anyone has experience with leaving a BP when they have children? If she ends up with custody and I am not there on a daily basis to take the brunt of her behavior, is there a chance that she will begin to transfer these behaviors onto our children?

I doubt very much that I would get full custody in a divorce. The courts tend to favor the mom and, since there is no diagnosis, there would be no legal grounds. I worry that, without me there, my children will be more subject to the whims of the disorder. Is this worry legitimate? Again, she is pretty high functioning and she cares a great deal for the kids. For the moment, I seem to bear the brunt of her bad behavior. I am her trigger. 

This are EXACTLY the questions I am asking in my own situation. I don't have the answers, but maybe it's helpful to you to again hear how familiar this sounds to others.

[bobcat2014]

Mr W,

Thanks for sharing. For many years I did chose to stay for sake of the children. I felt I could not trust my uBPDw to ensure the kids would be safe. I feared the dirt bag she was sleeping with would take interest in my daughter.

As heroic as that sounds, it was a mistake. Now my daughter is mimicking the same twisted relationship model shown to her by staying in the marriage. Clearly vet this one out, brother. You know your wife... .