I need help :(

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hello,
I want to apologize in advance that this will be a little bit of a long story, but I’ve got no one to turn to and would love all of your opinions.

- [ ] I met my husband through Instagram in 2016. I lived in the US, him in Europe. He told me how he hated Europe, and that his family was abusive to him. The country was dangerous and full of outlaws seeking danger. And that he didn’t feel safe at home or outside.  His father had abused him since a young age, physically and sexually. He showed me photos of bruises and scratches and wounds etc. that his family had given him. He expressed how they treated him so bad and gave him no chance at success to build a life on his own. He had to drop out of college and couldn’t find a good job because of them. Everything was because of them. Being an animal lover and rescuer, it was in my instinct to want to help him get out of this “living hell” he was describing. He would call me when I was sleeping and he sounded scared for his life. Begging me to help him escape this place where people were “all against him” and “trying to get him to jail or a mental hospital” or trying to entice him into making illegal money because he didn’t have a job. He was very suicidal. In one instant he got in a physical fight with his father and was escorted away by police. He lived for about 2 months in hotels and with friends after this incident. I grew to care so much for his well being and believed all that he was telling me... so I helped him out financially where I could during this time.

- [ ] We talked for awhile and I fell in love with him the more we talked, and him with me. And we decided to take it further. After meeting up with each other in Europe and years letter getting married and acquiring his Visa, He moved to the USA with me. Mind you, during this time I developed severe anxiety and stress due to him calling me at midnight frantically etc when he was going through his episodes and saying stuff like he will hurt himself. We tried to expedite his visa due to him feeling unsafe in his country but the embassy didn’t seem to care (or could see he was somewhat delirious). I for one, was completely sold and believed that he was truly in danger in his home country and was doing what I could to get him out. All these was so stressful and caused a lot of ragefull episodes on his part... however I thought it was all part of him feeling unsafe and being in danger in his country. He told me that once he is out he will never step foot there again and never speak to his family who abused him all his life. I had at this point met his family, they were friendly with me but just to be polite I assumed.

[blacksymphony]

Hello,
I want to apologize in advance that this will be a little bit of a long story, but I’ve got no one to turn to and would love all of your opinions.

- [ ] I met my husband through Instagram in 2016. I lived in the US, him in Europe. He told me how he hated Europe, and that his family was abusive to him. The country was dangerous and full of outlaws seeking danger. And that he didn’t feel safe at home or outside.  His father had abused him since a young age, physically and sexually. He showed me photos of bruises and scratches and wounds etc. that his family had given him. He expressed how they treated him so bad and gave him no chance at success to build a life on his own. He had to drop out of college and couldn’t find a good job because of them. Everything was because of them. Being an animal lover and rescuer, it was in my instinct to want to help him get out of this “living hell” he was describing. He would call me when I was sleeping and he sounded scared for his life. Begging me to help him escape this place where people were “all against him” and “trying to get him to jail or a mental hospital” or trying to entice him into making illegal money because he didn’t have a job. He was very suicidal. In one instant he got in a physical fight with his father and was escorted away by police. He lived for about 2 months in hotels and with friends after this incident. I grew to care so much for his well being and believed all that he was telling me... so I helped him out financially where I could during this time.

- [ ] We talked for awhile and I fell in love with him the more we talked, and him with me. And we decided to take it further. After meeting up with each other in Europe and years letter getting married and acquiring his Visa, He moved to the USA with me. Mind you, during this time I developed severe anxiety and stress due to him calling me at midnight frantically etc when he was going through his episodes and saying stuff like he will hurt himself. We tried to expedite his visa due to him feeling unsafe in his country but the embassy didn’t seem to care (or could see he was somewhat delirious). I for one, was completely sold and believed that he was truly in danger in his home country and was doing what I could to get him out. All these was so stressful and caused a lot of ragefull episodes on his part... however I thought it was all part of him feeling unsafe and being in danger in his country. He told me that once he is out he will never step foot there again and never speak to his family who abused him all his life. I had at this point met his family, they were friendly with me but just to be polite I assumed.

[blacksymphony]

- [ ] Flash forward and we’re on the plane that just landed in the USA together. The moment he stepped foot in the US he hated it, he called his grandma  immediately as we arrived in a hotel (the only person that was sweet and caring for the both of us when I was there) saying he wanted to go back. I felt like sh*t because I had done so much for him at this point and this is how he showed his respect? We were together for about 2 years now, it was 2018. I was 10k in debt to get him out of his abusive home.

- [ ] As 2018 progressed he made peace with his mother and sister and were now in good terms, though still didn’t talk to his father and hated him with all his heart. Because he was under a K-1 visa, we were to marry within 6 months of his arrival to the US. This wasn’t easy for neither of us because we wanted to be together but not necessarily wanted to be married... at least not in a rush without being able to plan a wedding etc... as well as wanted to enjoy life a bit before the commitment, however immediate marriage was our only option if we wanted to be in the same country so we agreed on it. I made peace with it but I don’t think he ever did. The moment we got “married” he had immediate regrets. He said he wanted to reverse it. He was frantic and this provoked what I have come to realize is a BPD episode, though I had no idea back then. He called his mother and had a chat with her and she seemed to calm him down. Some time passed and he got used to it... somewhat. Though I had the worst heart break seeing him react like that to the fact he was now married with me... he said it wasn’t about me but the fact that he felt forced to do it in order to escape his country.

- [ ] Throughout the next years up to the pandemic I lost 3 jobs due to him having these explosive episodes. He would call me at work, saying that he didn’t feel good, threatening suicide, and stuff that I had to answer the phone... one of my bosses told me to figure out my personal life before jumping into a career. Well he didn’t want to work ... so I had to. He would also get super jealous if I was kept after hours at work asking me who I was with. And if I took work home with me to complete, he would rage, tell me they are over working me, and not stop until it was too late to get any work done because I had work again the next morning... so you can see it was easy to get fired. We had some fights, more then a normal couple definitely. And he started to get physical with me when things didn’t go how he wanted or had planned. Even if it wasn’t my fault that his plans didn’t work out. Instead of feeling suicidal, now he was targeting me.

- [ ] I started to suspect there is something going on with him, his behavior was not normal. One night I had a conversation with an Uber driver who revealed to me he was a psychologist. I asked him if it was ok with him to share my story and he welcomed me. The drive home was 45 mins so we had a good talk. He told me that my husband suffers from something (he didn’t mention what just that he’s had other clients like him) and that now that he was away from his family and could not project any blames towards them, that he is now projecting the negativity towards me instead, and that’s why he has made peace with them, while he grew more and more agitated by me. He said that all the ill feelings he had for his family he is now attaching and confusing them with me.

[blacksymphony]

- [ ] Ok now the pandemic hits. At this point I have learned about BPD and highly suspect it although he would never see a therapist so I can’t get a confirmation on that from a certified doctor. I get fired from my new job. It was an amazing job... I had my own office and it was a dream. But it’s ok, we got unemployment and I figured some time home with the hubby could help our relationship. It did the exact opposite. He absolutely hates me now. He thinks I’m the devil. Occasionally when he is delirious he will get physical with me. But more often he shows signs of wanting to hurt himself (puts his hands around his throat to suffocate himself and stuff like this).  We fight like every 3 days... well he is fighting with his inner demon I believe...  and I just try to remain calm and agree with everything he says, even if it’s obviously wrong. I will wake up from sleep and he will tell me I am treating him bad when I haven’t been awake a full 10 mins yet... or I will be on my phone and he will say “you started treating me bad again” ... He calls me every name imaginable. He tells me he hates me and that he doesn’t love me anymore because I destroyed him and wishes that I was dead. He has given up on his daily work outs and blames it all on me even though I encourage him frequently to start them again. He says it’s my attitude that I’m always grumpy. He says I treat him bad and I’m abusive to him (I have never touched him). I’m controlling and using him. He also hates the United States and wishes he never came here with me and wants to go back. Literally every bad thing he had to say about his family he now says about me , to them... and every bad thing he had to say about his country, he now says about the USA to EVERYONE! The tables have turned, he even made somewhat peace with his father and now I’m his main enemy. It makes me wonder how much of the stories he told me are true versus How much is just in his head... He is convinced I want his bad and brought him here to use and destroy him... I’m not sure how he comes up with this stuff since I have done the only working, cooking, cleaning... paying bills the whole time we’ve been together with the occasional help in cooking and cleaning... perhaps like once in 4-5 months... while he just plays video games all day.

- [ ] Now a little about myself. I have an autoimmune condition called system scleroderma which can make me very tired easily. He calls me lazy and is not convinced that I suffer at all. I am the lazy one even though I’m the only one working/cleaning/cooking. I wouldn’t dare tell him otherwise. Why would I spark another episode? He says I am complaining and gets annoyed whenever I bring up to him that my symptoms are worsening. My family have totally alienated him because of how he has behaved... and they don’t even know half of it. I keep them far from the truth since they already don’t approve the relationship, I don’t need any more drama to deal with. They don’t really buy the BPD thing as well and just think he’s a terrible person. The fact that they don’t want to get along with him bothers him a lot because he tried to make friends with them. I also suffer from anxiety and depression, which I had before I met him, however  it was getting better for me, and now has escalated again. I’m literally losing my mind... I’m severely underweight and just can’t take any more of this. I have lost all my friends. He is truly controlling with who I speak with, checking my phone etc, getting upset if I get my nails done, lashes etc. getting jealous if I’m out buying grocery thinking I’m going out to meet up with someone... telling me not to dress like this or like that... and lately he will get trigged every time I have makeup on (something about the way I look with it on really bothers him) so I need to always remove it or guess what... he will rage. This makes me sad because makeup is one of my biggest passions and now he is holding me away from it. I don’t even use makeup anymore... I don’t draw or play violin or any of my hobbies. Instead I play video game’s with him on my spare time because that’s the only thing that doesn’t seem to bother him... he is controlling and abusive. he is truly all the things he accuses me of doing but he doesn’t see it. I have never cheated on him or anything similar, however sometimes I do get lost in my thoughts just thinking what a different life I would have if I was with someone calm and quiet... I remember my last 4 years as only chaos, nothing beautiful, no good memories to hold on to. I don’t see the joy in life anymore and I want to be able to again with someone (ideally my husband if this is even possible) who actually respects me. Tells me beautiful words... buys me flowers and tells me he loves me... my husband never does any of that and I feel so unloved... and it’s making my depression spike as well as my self esteem.  I am starting to crave the idea of a healthy relationship, however not with a specific anyone in mind, just a happy healthy... relationship where I am loved for who I am not not who he wants me to be.

[blacksymphony]

- [ ] So now here is where we stand. We talk often about separating our own ways a lot, at least he is the one bringing it up. I remain here and he will go back. I made sure to explain to him that it’s not what I want but since he feels so hurt by me then he has to follow what is best for him. However I truly love him so much and I care for his well being. We were just in his Country to visit 2 months ago after all this time and his family made it clear they don’t care for him... they told me to call the police if he’s harmful to me and that they don’t want him back there... that they will move out from their family home if he comes back. they showed more love towards me... constantly hugging me etc then they did to him. I’m torn... I tried to explain to them he has a medical condition and to be nicer with him but they don’t listen and don’t believe me. They are convinced he’s a master manipulator and acts that way to get what he wants. His grandmas are the only ones that accept and love him and even then they don’t understand why he behaves like he does...

I am completely ready on my end to end the relationship. No matter how much I love him, I see his symptoms getting worser by the day and would like to believe that this could be a good change for him. However I don’t think he is ready for it. He will tell me all these horrible stuff that I am and how he will leave me and doesn’t love me and then after he cools off he will come and hold me close and be a completely different person. And if I were to continue talking about the separation he gets upset and says that “that’s what you really want that’s why you treat me so bad... ok I’ll go”... I don’t get it. He wants to be with me but he doesn’t and I’m so torn I can’t keep up with it anymore. However I just know he is going to get in conflict with his family again if he goes back and his suicide threats scare me... when we were visiting his family he would get in his rage moments and say he wanted to hurt himself and they wouldn’t even comfort him, instead they came to comfort me because I started to cry.

 I don’t want something bad to happen to him... I love him with all my heart, but I at this rate I can’t guarantee something bad won’t happen to him here as well... he’s very depressive, confused and often talks about suicide putting his hands around his throat in an attempt to end it... im broken and torn, I just want to see him well, happy and healthy... it doesn’t matter with or without me. when he isn’t under this spell, he’s the sweetest and most honest person I have ever met. But lately those days are getting fewer and fewer. I’m left with the options to just split up and pray for the best for him or try to get him medical attention here in the states unwillingly...

I want to thank you for taking the time to read my story. I would love some advice from you guys

[blacksymphony]

  

[I Am Redeemed]

Wow, blacksymphony, you certainly have been through a lot.

I can relate to your story a lot, minus the foreign country. I wanted so badly to rescue my abusive ubpd (undiagnosed bpd) ex from himself and see him get treatment.

It's incredibly difficult to get someone forced into mental health treatment against their will in this country. Mental health professionals usually have to actually witness that the person is "an imminent threat to self or others" before someone can be hospitalized involuntarily. Even then, insurance companies, not doctors, usually dictate the length of the stay.

I once drove my ex to the hospital mental health crisis center because he swallowed a bunch of pills and drank nail polish remover. He was escorted by the police to the ER, stayed in the hospital 2 days, and I thought he would be transferred to an inpatient psychiatric ward. Instead, a social worker had him sign a paper stating he promised not to harm himself and he was released. He did not follow up with counseling.

BPD is a disorder of personality traits. There is no medication specifically for bpd, only medications that can treat symptoms that accompany bpd, such as anxiety, depression, etc. The most commonly used treatment for BPD is Dialectical Behavior Therapy and it requires the willingness and cooperation of the client to be successful. BPD is not like Bipolar or Schizophrenia, where a person may be hospitalized, given antipsychotics, and possibly stabilized enough that they begin to recognize the need for treatment and medication.

You are right that you have a tough choice in that you may have to let go of the idea of saving him as well as yourself. In this situation, you are the only one you actually have power to save. A good place to start would be contacting a local domestic violence agency for information about making a safety plan for yourself and exploring safe ways to exit the relationship if you choose to do so. If a local agency is too much of a step for you right now, you can speak or chat anonymously with a trained advocate at thehotline.org.

I think it's telling that his family comforts you during his rages instead of trying to soothe him. Personality disorder or not, he's responsible for his own feelings and behavior and should be held accountable for mistreating others. BPD is not an excuse for abuse.

[arjay]

I am completely ready on my end to end the relationship. No matter how much I love him, I see his symptoms getting worse by the day and would like to believe that this could be a good change for him. However I don’t think he is ready for it.

That is a healthy awareness. Having said that I will share a few things, that as a previous "rescuer" I learned via Counseling, reading and the BPDFamily website:

• Trying to rescue someone with the expectation that they will love you forever is not only unhealthy and naive, it is setting one up for failure. I was the rescuing type. I learned my lesson after a tumultuous, unhealthy and sometimes very abusive 5-year relationship/marriage.
• Rescuers (not talking animal rescuing here) have their own issues with "self-worth". We try to find our "worth" by rescuing someone as a basis for a relationship, expecting love in return "for all we did".  That typically ends-up a disaster because we never measure up, no matter how hard we try.  The underlying problems that cause their behavior are still there.
• Though I am not a psychologist, based on your post, this person appears to have BPD/PTSD.  You cannot help them. Continuing to think you can will only make things worse and protracted for you. In the end you will reach the same conclusion you appear to have done
• Consider counseling for yourself as to what motivated you to engage in this relationship in the first place. You will learn about yourself and my guess is you have done this in the past (rescue-type relationships)
• Let this person go and worry about your own well-being.  As much as it may seem "kind" to help someone in need, you are over your head, have lost employment, sleep, money, etc over this. This is not a relationship. This is you playing Mother Teresa for someone with a serious emotional disorder that you cannot help.
• Saying "he is not ready for it", is the same thing I thought when my xBPDW left.  She moved-on, though in my head I worried she was simply a "vulnerable and wounded emotional child". Looking back my view was more of the same old Mr Rescuer. She adapted as she did before me.  This is not their "first rodeo".  They often move on quicker than the emotionally damaged people they leave behind. That was certainly the case for me.

Sorry to be a bit blunt, but many of us went down a similar path of emotional destruction (ourselves), in the process of trying to "save" someone else.  It's called the "White Knight" mistake (in the case of men rescuing women).  My attempted "rescue" was of a "simply misunderstood woman" who turned out to be suffering from BPD/PTSD.  The destruction affected everything you described above and more.

BTW, I'm not sure you need to travel across the world to find a relationship, when one is likely "right around the corner"

Peace to you.

[ForeverDad]

I echo the other responses.  What more can I add?

He is not a minor, not a baby, a toddler, a preschooler, a youth, an adolescent nor a teenager.  He is a grown man, an adult.  As an adult he is responsible first for himself.  Besides him refusing to work, a concern in itself, long before now he should have figured out his issues or at least sought help for them.  Apparently he's been mooching off you - and simultaneously blaming you - during the entire marriage.  It's not getting better, it's getting worse and your the one suffering.

He's an adult, let him take care of himself.  Are there any post-marriage restrictions on his visa or green card?  If so, that's on him, don't let that delay you in taking care of yourself.  Be thankful you haven't had children with him or that would make things even more complicated.

Heard of The Bridge? (follow the link).

Heard of the F.O.G.?  Let Go of the Fear, Obligation and Guilt.  Learn from this experience and Move On.  There are healthier fish in the sea, as the saying goes.

[blacksymphony]

Wow, blacksymphony, you certainly have been through a lot.

I can relate to your story a lot, minus the foreign country. I wanted so badly to rescue my abusive ubpd (undiagnosed bpd) ex from himself and see him get treatment.

It's incredibly difficult to get someone forced into mental health treatment against their will in this country. Mental health professionals usually have to actually witness that the person is "an imminent threat to self or others" before someone can be hospitalized involuntarily. Even then, insurance companies, not doctors, usually dictate the length of the stay.

I once drove my ex to the hospital mental health crisis center because he swallowed a bunch of pills and drank nail polish remover. He was escorted by the police to the ER, stayed in the hospital 2 days, and I thought he would be transferred to an inpatient psychiatric ward. Instead, a social worker had him sign a paper stating he promised not to harm himself and he was released. He did not follow up with counseling.

BPD is a disorder of personality traits. There is no medication specifically for bpd, only medications that can treat symptoms that accompany bpd, such as anxiety, depression, etc. The most commonly used treatment for BPD is Dialectical Behavior Therapy and it requires the willingness and cooperation of the client to be successful. BPD is not like Bipolar or Schizophrenia, where a person may be hospitalized, given antipsychotics, and possibly stabilized enough that they begin to recognize the need for treatment and medication.

You are right that you have a tough choice in that you may have to let go of the idea of saving him as well as yourself. In this situation, you are the only one you actually have power to save. A good place to start would be contacting a local domestic violence agency for information about making a safety plan for yourself and exploring safe ways to exit the relationship if you choose to do so. If a local agency is too much of a step for you right now, you can speak or chat anonymously with a trained advocate at thehotline.org.

I think it's telling that his family comforts you during his rages instead of trying to soothe him. Personality disorder or not, he's responsible for his own feelings and behavior and should be held accountable for mistreating others. BPD is not an excuse for abuse.

Thanks for your response. This is what I worry about. That even if I do get him seen by a professional they will likely let him go in a couple of days and it has actually done more harm as now he will start to see me like his worst enemy trying to get him to do something against his will... I think my only option is to split ways and pray for his best... he will be in his country with his family and friends... here it’s just me and as of now he absolutely hates me anyways. I woke today and said to him sweetly “morning babe” and he looked at me and said “what do you want from me?” Literallly... I just woke up and not even given the chance and he says Our relationship is bad because I’m always grumpy and with a bad mood

[blacksymphony]

[quote author=ForeverDad link=topic=350442.msg13151981#msg13151981 date=1629682588
Besides him refusing to work, a concern in itself...

Are there any post-marriage restrictions on his visa or green card?  If so, that's on him, don't let that delay you in taking care of yourself.

Heard of The Bridge? (follow the link).

Thank you for that link. It was a very eye opening read.

As far as working, he will actually tell his family that the reason he doesn’t work is because I don’t let him... he’s also convinced himself his life is so bad because of me. “I destroyed myself being with someone like you” is his favorite thing to say. It makes no sense... anybody else would have dumped him the second he gave no effort to find a job, and I’m destroying him by letting him sit at home? How would he feel working 9 hours a day and doing all the chores like I do? I think I’m the most forgiving person when it comes to his actions and behavior... I even paid his hair transplant surgery and bought him a gaming PC to try to make him happy in hopes of bettering our relationship. Nope... yet someone like me is destroying him... that’s true, I really don’t know anybody as foolish as me

As far as the green card  goes, we need to be married another 10 to 11 months for him to retain permanent residency regardless if he’s married with me or not. But he doesn’t care, Because he is convinced that USA is his second main enemy (after me) and the second reason why he’s doing bad in life.

[babyducks]

some very nice posts in this thread already.

It makes no sense... anybody else would have dumped him the second he gave no effort to find a job, and I’m destroying him by letting him sit at home?

It does make sense.   if you look at it through the lens of a serious mental illness.   because you have no or very porous boundaries around what is acceptable in a relationship, because he can 'get away with nearly anything', because you excuse his most egregious behavior and even reward it with hair transplants and gaming PC's he feels that nothing he does ( or doesn't do) really matters.

that might be tough to read and understand.    peace at any price isn't peace.   and its not comfortable.  for either one of you.

pwBPD, people with BPD tend to believe their feelings are caused by  others or by events outside themselves, with no belief that they have any sort of control over their emotions and they believe that the only way to change how they feel is to get other people or events to change.     so its either going to be your fault or his families fault.     it is very hard for pwBPD to take responsibility for their own situation.    that's why its called a mental illness.

[Turkish]

they told me to call the police if he’s harmful to me

It sounds like maybe they've been down this road back home and that they're offering good advice. What do you think?

The first rule of First Responders is to help yourself first before you rescue others. Do you feel safe yourself?

Can you take this test and tell us how you feel?

If things get more out of hand, it's good to have a plan for your safety. Save yourself first, then help him if you can after you are safe.

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety-first-dv-1.pdf

Tell us what you think.

This test is also a threat assessment and it might give you some perspective: MOSAIC

I took it myself to determine the threat level in my relationship. It's good to get outside perspectives and support (which is why I'm glad that you reached out to this community). It's hard to see ourselves when involved so deeply being implicitly demanded to see our significant others, often at the expense of ourselves.

Turkish