Lying and hiding to keep the peace

[joe_schmoe]

There are several issues that I want to cover, but I'll just stick with one for now (money) to simplify things.

I am the sole breadwinner in my house, my uBPD wife stays at home. The older kids are in school, one is still at home. We have a joint checking account. All the money that goes into it is from my job. She knows that she is free to spend anything she wants and I never question her purchases or tell her she can't buy something. When it's gone, it's gone. She buys groceries and stuff for the house, I pay all the bills. I spend very little money on myself. I don't want very much to begin with. I will admit that she generally does not spend recklessly, but she does make some unwise choices of which I never criticize or question.

However, whenever I do spend any money on myself, she makes me feel guilty for it and she questions it or hints that I should spend less. For example, I have holes in the soles my work shoes and want to buy new ones. I told her I needed new shoes and she immediately asked "how much is that going to cost?" Now just an FYI here, we have money in the bank, we have savings, we are not rich but we don't need for anything. It's not like she is going to go without anything because I buy shoes for myself. But the point is she is constantly monitoring the money I spend. Now knowing I don't waste it, I have come to avoid telling her when I spend money so as not to have to go through the scrutiny she would impose.

I have resorted up saving small amounts of cash whenever I can (hiding it) and when I need something for myself, I'll use that instead of the checking account so she doesn't know I spent it. I don't like having to do this, but I feel it is necessary. I'm not stealing from her, I'm not spending it on gambling or booze or women or anything, it's just ordinary stuff. I bought a tire gauge for my car because I have a bad tire and have to keep inflating it and she asked how much it was and when I told her ($15) she chastised me for not buying a cheaper one.

She just spent $125 on tennis shoes and volunteered the information that while they were a little high, she "really needed" them.

I don't like the spending behind her back, the hiding money, etc. but if it helps keep the peace, I feel it is necessary.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

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[briefcase]

I don't think you are doing anything terribly wrong.  It's ok to take a little control over money and exercise financial independence.  My wife and I have seperate bank accounts.  However, if this is part of a larger effort to tip toe around her and avoid conflict at all costs - that may be a problem.

Try this.  Next time you need something basic and inexpensive - shoes, tire guage, etc - just go buy it from your joint account.  Don't hide it.  You need to establish a new "normal" around some of these purchases.  If she asks you about it, just calmly say, "I needed shoes."  You can keep your cash stash too, but that can be more of an emergency fund.

It sounds like you've learned to fear her reaction to these sorts of things.  I'm sure her emotional reactions are very intense.  That's her.  That's the disorder. It's ok if she's upset or angry - you can't really control that.  Confronting this kind of thing is what this support group is all about.  We've all had to cross these bridges.  It's hard to do, but it does get easier.    

   

[hithere]

It sounds like you've learned to fear her reaction to these sorts of things.

I agree with this.  You need to stop the justification dance when you spend money. She senses your fear that is why she plays on it.

[whereisthezen]

Agree with briefcase. Simply state we all need things sweetie. You need tennis shoes, I need a bicycle. Keep extra money for a rainy day, use joint account for what you need. Be yourself as much as possible, if you can do it, then use your joint account and do not feel bad or guilty you need things, its simple.

[joe_schmoe]

Thanks for the comments and I completely agree. I should not have to take this route, but... .  

If it comes down to it and I'm standing there ready to buy something and I have my debit card in one hand and cash the other, and I'm thinking ' I can buy this with the card and listen to her btch about it, or I can just pay cash and have a peaceful afternoon', I'm much more apt to just pay cash and leave it alone.

You are right in that I do act based on her reaction, but I think it is more of 'I'm so tired and beat down by the abuse that I'd rather just give myself some relief and take the easy way out' than fear.

I just need to spend more time building my emotional musles so that I can take the abuse and not let it bring me down like it does. When I'm feeling stronger I use the card.

[hithere]

'I'm so tired and beat down by the abuse that I'd rather just give myself some relief and take the easy way out' than fear.

That is fear... .   I hope things get better for you.

good luck.

[joe_schmoe]

So what am I afraid of?

I equate it more with, I do as much as I can as long as I can and when I need a break I take one, and then I go back and do more work. I don't feel like I'm afraid of the work, I just get tired of doing it. What exactly is it that I fear?

[hithere]

Sorry, I did not mean it in a negative way but you say you are tired of the abuse and you lie to get relief from that, lying is the reaction to the fear of being abused... .   I have been there and it is a very heavy weight to carry around.

[whereisthezen]

It's coping, codependent... .   Most of us do it to some degree because the focus is on them so when you take care of yourself, it takes away from them, even your tire gear.

So take care of yourself, be open if you can, dont change because she needs to learn how to live a normal life. You dont need to learn how to live her way, that will just cause you unnecessary conflict when she finds new things around.

Just be yourself on this one.

[joe_schmoe]

OK, Thanks. I'll keep trying.

[Indiana]

Joe -

Your story is very familiar to me.  It is unfortunate that a gainfully employed adult should feel the need to hide money or lie about money to their spouse, but regretfully that's where we are.

Just this past weekend, I withdrew $100 (at her request) from the bank because I knew we had several things to do that would require cash.  Monday morning, she asked me how much I had left because she needed some money for lunch.  I checked my wallet and had $8 left.  She couldn't believe that I only had $8 left, even though she was totally aware of every purchase I had made.  I immediately named all the places we had been and how much I had spent at each one, totaling around $90.  She called me a smart ass and told me she need my $8.  I left it on the counter and she eventually took it, leaving me with zero dollars to start the week.  

I think it's a control issue for her.  We have enough money.

It is so much easier to stash a few bucks and use that for day-to-day expenses.  I don't wish to have to explain every soda, pack of gum, snack, etc. that I buy. Of course that does nothing to solve my problems, but if it keeps her on an even keel for the day, it is totally worth it.  I probably spend $5-10 each week behind her back.  Again, I am a grown man with a good job and I am sneaking around over that much money in the name of family harmony.

Recently, I have found that I have very little interest in even possessing cash.  When you are married to a woman like this, you must not even possess the evidence of any expenditures.  "Where did you get money?" has been for years the standard query  upon the discovery of so much as a Snickers wrapper in my coat pocket.

How do you answer those questions when you went straight there and back, and purchased exactly what was on her list?

Joe - I think we have a lot in common.

[Cloudy Days]

I wouldn't say it is right to do, however I completley understand why you do it. I do things like that too because it is just easier to pick your battles. Is that $10 worth the fight? For me it isn't. You just need a break sometimes. It just comes natural to try and avoid conflict.

What I suggest is when you do have a charge that she asks about (it's gonna happen at some point) you should validate her feelings about having no money and then move on with the converstation.

So if she says,

Her: How much is that going to cost?

You:You sound worried about our finances is something bothering you?

Her:You always buy really expensive stuff

You: It may seem that way sometimes so I see why you might be worried about it. (it's good to use words like some, maybe and might)

Her: I don't want you spending all our money on stuff we don't need

You: I wouldn't want to get anything we don't need, I agree with that. I feel that I need these shoes, just like you need shoes sometimes too.

You aren't actually answering her direct questions you are more or less responding to her fears and feelings. The reason she doesn't want you spending money is because she has a fear of something happening if you do spend it, you need to figure out what that is and validate the fear for her. If you ask the right questions each time you spend money it will become less of an issue for her because you validate her fears each time and she learns to get over it

It's not a permanent fool proof fix but you have to start somewhere

[VeryFree]

We had separate bank-accounts were our income would be deposited.

We both would put money on a joint account for the cost of our household.

The personal costs (from clothes to travelcosts for work) would come out of our separate bank accounts.

This was my choice, because I would feel troubled to buy something if it had to come from joint money. She agreed and the deal was honest, untill at a certain moment she started to accuse me of holding back money and buying things for myself (which was not more then wat she was doing). She then demanded that I gave her money.

Well, wrong guess: asked nicely money was and would never be a problem, but demanding is a different matter. After a while money became a real issue for her and I didn't gave in.

I suspect this is part of the reason she now is trying to break me down both emotionally and financially (by extreme demands and not wanting settlements (higher legal costs for me).

But to return to your ?: I don't know. I really don't think it matters a lot. If a BPD wants a problem, there will be a problem.

[briefcase]

If it comes down to it and I'm standing there ready to buy something and I have my debit card in one hand and cash the other, and I'm thinking ' I can buy this with the card and listen to her btch about it, or I can just pay cash and have a peaceful afternoon', I'm much more apt to just pay cash and leave it alone.

You are right in that I do act based on her reaction, but I think it is more of 'I'm so tired and beat down by the abuse that I'd rather just give myself some relief and take the easy way out' than fear.

I just need to spend more time building my emotional musles so that I can take the abuse and not let it bring me down like it does. When I'm feeling stronger I use the card.

I'm all for picking battles.  I get that.  I do that.  

However, there is a difference between being in a good place and picking smart battles and being beaten down to the point that you walk on eggshells to avoid conflict at all cost.  Whether its this issue, or some other issue, eventually you are going to have to put the cash back in your pocket and pay with the debit card.  

Avoiding conflict does not lead to peace, or change.  It leads to resentment, then depression.  I was there.  In my relationship, I "paid with cash" for years, so to speak.  

"Emotional muscles" - I like it!    Just remember that you are building them up so you don't take abuse anymore - not so you can "take it" better.  If a conversation turns abusive, you leave the conversation or leave the house if necessary.  There's a workshop in the Lessons about how to take a time out.

We are not victims here.  We don't tolerate abuse.    

[daylily]

Hi Joe,

I can so relate to this.  I too am the sole breadwinner and I do not usually spend money on myself, mostly because my uBPDh has made it a point to criticize my purchases and tell me that I'm not good with money.  (I disagree - I manage our finances and we're doing fine with that.)  I agree with the other posts that it would be healthier to just put it all out there rather than hiding things.  I think for me the reason I hide some purchases when I do make them is because at some level I'm vulnerable to his criticisms.  There's a part of me that thinks I shouldn't spend anything on myself.  I'm not sure why I feel this way, especially as I'm the one making the money.  He usually uses the trigger, which is that I should be spending money on the kids instead of on me.  That gets me every time.

Recently he has said that I need to get some work clothes and "allocated" some money from our savings for that.  I was surprised, and I'm sure he'll change his mind about this soon enough.  Sometimes he tries to make sure I know that he's a "good husband" and this seems like one of those situations.

  Daylily

[joe_schmoe]

Thanks to everyone for the advice.

I'll take it all into consideration.

[Jay1977]

Joe, I recently joined this forum after my assumed BPD girlfriend of 2.5 years broke up with me.

I read your words and it sounds familiar.

She resented me for not making enough money while I was a student, working very hard to finish my degree and keep a minimal job at the same time.

It was for this reason that I had decided very early in the going that I would never agree to a joint bank account. You lose your independence that way. It might work with a normal relationship, but not with a person with BPD.


If your issue is a moral one- ie that you feel bad for sneaking around like that, I would suggest fully absolving yourself from that weight: she is the guilty party, because she cannot handle the truth.

I have personally had to be sneaky with other matters, and I hid certain matters from her, which allowed me to successfully avoid unnecessary trouble. So no guilt- please.

If the issue is that you feel humiliated and resentful for being a grown man, the breadwinner in your family, and being belittled in this way, you might want to introduce structural changes like getting separate accounts, or getting her used to you spending on personal things.

Maybe you could introduce a budget system where you each get a certain monthly budget for personal things. 

On the other hand, if you are not certain of the stability of your marriage, maybe it is best to leave well enough alone.