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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
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Setting Boundaries
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Author Topic: I quite often get drawn in.  (Read 263 times)
Bassmaster2020

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« on: January 30, 2024, 05:43:29 PM »

I often get get drawn in to an argument.

Take Sunday  for example. My girlfriend was seeking attention when I had a busy.

  In the morning it was obviously, was intent on engaging in various conversations me whilst I was working.

It was obvious she was seeking my attention,  i love her, enjoy her company so I took a break from work and gave her my full attention for a good portion of the morning.

I get back to work and about an hour later I finish just about finishing up.

 After work stuff,  I needed to pop out and deal with a few things , I was on a bit of  time scale (but had a little bit of flexibility)

The plan was to use the morning, early afternoon to get things done and get home and enjoy the rest of the afternoon  and whole evening together.  I was really looking forward to it.

As finishing up work and I was thinking
about  getting ready to leave my girlfriend  walks to the kitchen and decides she wants to start organising some things and asks for  some help.

 Staying on schedule would be a bit tight,  but doable so I thought it would be enjoyable for us both to potter in the kitchen together for a short while.

She started dragging things out (I think intentionally but she was happy), but as time went on I started feel under pressure to.leave .

She picked up on this.

Which is when she started to shift.

I reminded her of all the things I needed to do.

   Long story short the day turned into a massive argument. 

Even though initially I knew she wanted attention, and that that's all this was about.

  Her attacks and accusations, put me on the defensive. 

This thew gasoline on the fire, mood intensified and things escalated.


She leaves later that night to stay with family.


Next day I try to talk to her about it see how she us.    I have a barrage  of furious accusations thrown at me via text. 

Again I get provoked into reacting and defend myself.      I don't engage in arguing but do defend what being says to me.

The whole thing escalated saying  she's broken up with me or at least implying it.   

Today she text me first thing in the morning and communication through the day is a lot better.

We're able to talk openly without her rage, back to communicating normally.


Even though the whole things was about her wanting my attention and I was eager to give that to her. 

I wanted get through  the day and spend quality time with her, and was looking forward to the whole of the afternoon and evening we had allocated for us time.

As soon as it was presented in a verbal rageful  and very provoking attacks my reaction is to defend myself.

I'm guessing what I'm struggling with is validating without accepting blame.

How do you stay calm and remain not be provoked when attacked? 

 I find myself in moment for me it's easier said than done.


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tina7868
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2024, 11:43:55 AM »

Hi Bassmaster2020!

I feel like other members can give you more specific advise from experience, but I just wanted to thank you for sharing and express that it must be difficult to balance your relationship with other priorities. Communication and boundary setting are both skills that I am working on myself. I can tell you care and want to try, and that`s already a great place to start.

What I read in your description of what unfolded is that you were aware of the time constraint, and that it made you feel pressure. Did you (and how?) express to her that you needed to get back to work before it became a source of pressure for you? I am wondering if setting a time boundary while making your reasoning clear (`I can help you for 10 minutes, but then I need to get back to work. I want to wrap everything up so we can hang out later, which I am looking forward to!`) would help.

Excerpt
Again I get provoked into reacting and defend myself.      I don't engage in arguing but do defend what being says to me.

I wonder, what do you mean by defend? Could you give us an example of an accusation that you then defended?
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Bassmaster2020

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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2024, 07:54:15 PM »

Often I'll get accused of things that didn't happen. 

She will base her argument on something I didn't do, say or happen. 

I find it difficult to validate what she's feeling without accepting her version of reality.. 

So I fall into defending against the untruth, as I feel don't feel comfortable taking accountability for something I didn't do.


Take Sunday for example the massive argument was mostly her raging, shouting and directing her anger at me.

I stayed pretty calm the whole time.   Didn't raise my voice or anything like that.  I tried to calmly talk to her ,  tried to de escalate , gave her space , told her I understood that she needed to go.

Before she left she calmed down. We talked what happened , asked each other,  spent some time together on the sofa, hugged as she left. 

The next day a barrage of texts saying how abusive I was on Sunday .   I was screaming at her, intimidating her,  forcing her to be there, I was cruel , I should be ashamed  if my behaviour, loads of things like that that, things that didn't happen.


I can't accept accusations like that, when I didn't do any of it!

So I explained that's not what happened.  Recall events and explain that I didn't do the things she's accusing me of.


She blows up. Ends the relationship. 


Next day she texts me she apologises about the texts the previous day.  She was trying to cause me pain and hurt so I felt how devastated she felt. 


Although she's still framing the whole thing as my "fault".    Which I'm totally okay with , I don't feel the need to defend against this.


But accusations of me being abusive when for a fact I wasn't and didn't do any of these things. That's different and something I cannot accept and feel I need to definitely against.




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Formerly known as broken person…


« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2024, 05:05:18 PM »

Hi Bassmaster and welcome,

Have you read the much recommended, “Stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist”? It’s an excellent book which changed my life in realising that much of my behaviours in my relationship with my dbpdw were actually making things worse. In fact I had fallen deeper and deeper into a hole where she controlled my whole life, who I communicated with and when, where I went, I gave up all hobbies due to her jealousy, I cut contact with friends and quit certain jobs she didn’t like me doing. By the time I joined bpd family I was even scared to shower or phone my mother without her permission and was barely taking any photos of our kids or sending them to my mother. I was not playing the piano for pleasure even though I was playing as a professional and also I was unprepared for my performances.

I completely relate to your description of what went down. You had things to do. Your gf wanted your attention. She invaded your boundaries and knew it because she wanted your attention. You knew you wanted to get on with work and other things and then give her your full attention, but that wasn’t enough for her. The problem is, this method will never be enough for them. The more you give, the more they will take, and you will keep thinking ok, I’ll just give a little bit more just to try and avoid an argument. But not only will it not avoid an argument, you will afterwards find that the pwbpd does not appreciate your huge efforts to keep them happy, and in fact has a warped and incorrect memory of what actually happened.

The good news is that you can make your own choices about how you live your life and how you want to spend your time. Your girlfriend will surely respond in anger when you clearly start demonstrating this, it is a rocky road but it is the only way to assert your rights over your self. Learn all you can about validation as it is a helpful way to help the pwbpd feel heard. The result with my wife was that she presents generally as calmer and more sane. However we have had serious struggles since she birthed our third child in 2022.

Pwbpd relationships will always require special care akin to a type of caretaking, because you do need to be more careful with words and actions. Also, if you are not giving them enough caretaking there is of course the danger they will go and find someone else who will give them that. That’s why they supposedly have many volatile relationships, but if they find a good caretaker early on then not necessarily so. Threats of wanting the relationship to end are common.

Remember that borderline means on the borderline between milder diagnoses such as depression/anxiety, and more severe delusional psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia. The pwbpd often acts like a crazy person either with rage or paranoia, and having an incorrect memory of what actually happened. With my wife at times it feels like she has someone in her brain messing with her head, telling her that I don’t care and I do things to hurt her on purpose etc. It has helped me to view this as insanity rather than the cruelty it comes across as. They don’t mean to be like it, but their perception of us is telling them otherwise.

I’ve been in bpd family for nearly 3 years. I’ve worked so hard on all of this but still have moments of despair and I’m still active in seeking support on here. I hope you found some of that helpful anyway. I wish you all the best on this journey.
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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2024, 05:18:43 PM »

I agree with what you said but I feel I'm always in the firing line for everything that goes wrong. Ok, they need support but so do we.
Tired of walking on eggs.
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kells76
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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2024, 01:17:38 PM »

Hi Bassmaster2020,

As odd as it may sound, I think you deserve kudos for framing the challenge as "I get drawn in" (versus "she always draws me in"). What I'm reading there is you're taking responsibility for what's under your control -- your tendency to "take the bait" sometimes.

The nice corollary to that is that while we can't control other people or what they do, we can control ourselves and be choicemakers in our own lives. I hear you wanting a better way forward and through those situations that start out as a generally normal couples' conflict and explode into BPD dysfunction.

I appreciate you walking us through the kitchen conflict. We can think of it as "reviewing game tape", where sure, the game didn't go how we wanted it to, but we're reviewing and learning so we can make changes in the next game. Not about "who did it wrong" or beating ourselves up, more about: OK, this wasn't effective, so next time I'll do XYZ instead of ABC.

The pivot point that stood out to me was here:

Staying on schedule would be a bit tight,  but doable so I thought it would be enjoyable for us both to potter in the kitchen together for a short while.

She started dragging things out (I think intentionally but she was happy), but as time went on I started feel under pressure to.leave .

She picked up on this.

Which is when she started to shift.

I reminded her of all the things I needed to do.

 Long story short the day turned into a massive argument. 

I think tina7868 had some good insight that could be applied in moments like that.

Your GF will mostly be concerned with her own feelings and if she's feeling OK. It is difficult for her to shift momentarily to have the empathy that Bassmaster2020 doesn't really want to go but has to. That isn't important to her. What's important is that in that moment -- no matter how she's felt in the past or may feel in the future -- she feels like she's being abandoned (even though in reality she isn't) and that might come out as "I'm never important enough to you, you always want to go off and do what you want and leave me" etc.

Pairing a boundary with validation, like tina7868 suggested, could be a better alternative than the didactic "reminder of the facts". It doesn't matter to her how much you have to do (fact) or your time crunch (fact), what matters is if she feels like you care about how she feels. And like you said, you love her and you're here working on new ways to communicate and connect.

So, instead of "babe, don't forget that I have a ton of stuff I have to do" (which a generally normal partner could cope with but to a pwBPD may feel invalidating), stating a boundary "I have to go at 12:30" followed by validation "I hate having to leave us, too" and then some info "Looking forward to seeing you at 4pm so we can keep hanging out" may be less-escalating approach.

That's kind of the detail part.

In terms of this:

I'm guessing what I'm struggling with is validating without accepting blame.

How do you stay calm and remain not be provoked when attacked? 

 I find myself in moment for me it's easier said than done.

Again, I'm seeing it as emotional validation plus boundaries.

True validation is not about accepting blame! It's not placating her, agreeing with her interpretation of the facts, trying to be positive, apologizing for stuff you didn't do, or you feeling not provoked inside.

It's about finding the feelings behind her words (however poorly expressed) and validating those feelings.

So if she throws something at you like "You always leave me! You never want to spend time with me!", sure, you're allowed to feel provoked inside. You're allowed to feel whatever feelings come up, just like she is. What you can do, though, is even though you feel provoked, you can make a move towards deescalation by identifying and validating the feelings she's expressing:

"It would suck to feel like I didn't want to spend time with you." Or, "Wow, that might hurt, I'd feel alone." Or, "I wouldn't want you to leave me, either". Or, "I'd want to feel like you wanted to spend time with me, too".

Something where with your words and your body language/tone, you can genuinely mean what you communicate to her, and it's communicating that you captured the feelings going on for her.

I'd steer away from statements like "I understand you feel furious": (a), when it starts with "I understand", sometimes it comes across as more about us and our understanding than them and their feelings. And (b), don't assume she's feeling something that she hasn't communicated! You could speculate, maybe: "I might feel angry if XYZ", but telling someone else how they feel rarely goes over well.

...

The thing is, too, that validation isn't a magic wand. It's a way to have positive connection -- not a cure for BPD. When your GF feels heard and like her feelings are understood, yes, that can deescalate things -- a lot. But sometimes she's left the runway and the plane is in the air, so to speak. When that happens, you're allowed to disengage. We all have our limits. If you know that false accusations send you to a place of reactivity, then as soon as you hear one, you might need to have a boundary for protection.

You don't have to announce or describe your boundary to her, and if it's a real boundary, it won't require her to agree or cooperate. It could be something like: "When I hear false accusations, I leave the room/area and take a break". This can be protective of both of you and of the relationship. It isn't good for her or the relationship for her to falsely accuse you. It isn't good for you to hear that from your GF. When you aren't around -- you don't hear it and don't sustain the damage.
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kells76
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« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2024, 01:32:45 PM »

OK, focusing on your next post:

Often I'll get accused of things that didn't happen. 

She will base her argument on something I didn't do, say or happen. 

I find it difficult to validate what she's feeling without accepting her version of reality.. 

So I fall into defending against the untruth, as I feel don't feel comfortable taking accountability for something I didn't do.

Yes. Many pwBPD will accuse others of doing things or saying things that didn't really occur.

True validation has nothing to do with accepting her version of reality. Remember -- validate feelings, not facts (or "facts" as constructed by her). And, you get to decide for yourself if you are up for positive connection through validation, or if you need protection through boundaries. You aren't required to stay and validate how she's feeling if you just don't have the resources. It's OK to be a limited human being -- join the club! Knowing your own limitations and buttons can help you decide to disengage if you know you can't participate constructively. We all need breaks sometimes  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Genuine question: how can she make you take accountability for something you didn't do? Does her saying "You did XYZ" mean she is making you take accountability?

Take Sunday for example the massive argument was mostly her raging, shouting and directing her anger at me.

I stayed pretty calm the whole time.   Didn't raise my voice or anything like that.  I tried to calmly talk to her ,  tried to de escalate , gave her space , told her I understood that she needed to go.

Before she left she calmed down. We talked what happened , asked each other,  spent some time together on the sofa, hugged as she left.  

That's really good to hear that the two of you are able to reconnect after an argument. Hugging is important. How were you feeling after that -- did it feel resolved for you?



The next day a barrage of texts saying how abusive I was on Sunday .   I was screaming at her, intimidating her,  forcing her to be there, I was cruel , I should be ashamed  if my behaviour, loads of things like that that, things that didn't happen.

I can't accept accusations like that, when I didn't do any of it!

So I explained that's not what happened.  Recall events and explain that I didn't do the things she's accusing me of.

She blows up. Ends the relationship.

Next day she texts me she apologises about the texts the previous day.  She was trying to cause me pain and hurt so I felt how devastated she felt.

Although she's still framing the whole thing as my "fault".    Which I'm totally okay with , I don't feel the need to defend against this.

But accusations of me being abusive when for a fact I wasn't and didn't do any of these things. That's different and something I cannot accept and feel I need to definitely against.

What do you think would've happened if you didn't engage with the "blame/accusation" text the next day? That's an option on the table. She isn't saying anything productive and is inviting you back to the old conflict dance. It would be OK not to engage with her when she's at that level.

Another option could be to make one statement that isn't JADE-ing: "We remember yesterday really differently." Or, "Even though I didn't do/say those things, it would be really upsetting if I had". Those aren't great options, but again, if she's raging and blaming, there aren't a lot of magic wands at hand, and she may need to practice self-soothing instead of "emotionally vomiting" on you, to feel better.

When she apologized for the raging texts, how did you respond?

...

A lot of this seems to center on "her making you accept false accusations" or you "not being able to accept" them.

False abuse accusations are serious. What did she accuse you of?

That being said -- context is important. You say you love her and are committed. You guys don't have any kids together, right? And there is no separation/divorce in the future? Do you have any concerns that she'd try to make false reports to your employer or to authorities? If any of that is true, that's kind of a different question.

What I think I'm hearing is that the key concern is you're feeling like she is trying to make you accept her statements: "I can't accept the blame, I can't accept the accusations".

You get to decide for yourself what you will accept -- regardless of the intensity of her statements. She can have an emotional intensity of 11/10 as she asserts "Bassmaster2020 is the devil himself and he broke all my fingers". She can't make you accept that that's true.

Is it more that you don't want her to make those statements (versus you don't want her to make you accept them)? I think I'm trying to home in on your core concern because that can help us figure out a path forward.

Any of that close to helpful -- or off base?
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