revelation re: black and white thinking

[byasliver]

 I just had a revelation while reading another post: we have to put our boundaries in simple terms because they see only black & white, yes or no, stay or go. And often, they perceive our stating our boundaries as an ultimatum because that's the only way it makes sense to them. We can't let their perception affect our reality!

I'm going to have a boundary conversation with my uBPDh in a couple of days and I've been so anxious because he may take it as an ultimatum. But now I realize that I can't let my fear of his misunderstanding dictate the reality of what I've been feeling. I can no longer manage our life together as it has been and changes need to be made: that's fact- not an ultimatum! I get it! <doing a little happy dance!>

Posting in hopes that this helps someone else to understand, too 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Mara2]

Wow, I was so concerned over trying to figure out my boundries that I forgot that he would probably take them as an ultimatum.  Makes sense. 

[charred]

They take boundaries as an ultimatum, OMG, that explains so many of my fights with my pwBPD! I would get tired of her going way over the line, would state the boundaries in a loving way and she would bolt or rage... . and it didn't make sense... . but seeing a boundary as an ultimatum explains it.

Thinking of how a little 2-3 yr old handles being told "No" explains it as well, and was how I had viewed it... . but if you know they will take it as an ultimatum, you can probably approach it some better way.

[arabella]

Now the question is: how do we present boundaries so that they don't feel like ultimatums to our pwBPD? I can spend all the time in the world trying to explain, but the more I talk the more the point gets forgotten. This is interesting, I'll have to work on it!

[benny2]

I think mine takes it as more of threat than an ultimatum.

[123Phoebe]

We can't make a person with BPD do anything.  Boundaries are for us, what we'll do in the event of boundary busting.  

"I will not stay in the same room with somebody who's raging".  When raging starts, I leave room.

"I will not be in a relationship with a person who cheats".  If cheating happens, I leave relationship.

"I will not cook dinner for someone who complains about my cooking'.  Complaints start, I quit cooking.

People with BPD are most likely not going to like boundaries and will try to bust them.  Follow through with stated consequence

[OTH]

I think the idea is to create change in the relationship by establishing and enforcing boundaries. "Walking on eggshells" about boundaries sounds self defeating. Change is bound to rock the boat. If you take care of your side your partner may or may not follow but at least you know you tried to move the relationship to a healthier place. Full disclosure... .   I didn't have great success here so take that for what it is worth.

[byasliver]

The part that really sunk in for me was this: We can't let their perception affect our reality. It's about taking care of US. Realizing what is stressing us and that we will no longer accept it as a part of a healthy relationship... .   NO MATTER WHAT THEY THINK/SAY/FEEL. When I do sit down Monday to have the boundary talk with my uBPDh, I know I will be terribly anxious. I love him and do not want to end our relationship. But I've let that fear stop me from standing up for myself for far too long. Some of his behavior has been completely unacceptable. I still love him unconditionally but that doesn't mean I will put up with abusive behavior. And abuse isn't just hitting or restraining: it's demeaning, devaluing, manipulating and controlling another person for personal gain. His rages have never been physical and for that reason he claims to have never been abusive. I know that is not the truth. I am tired of hurting and know that living without him may be hard but going on this way would be harder. I have a strong faith and am leaning on that to know that no matter what the outcome of our talk, I will be okay. Yes, I worry about him but someone needs to worry about me, too. For now, that has to be me because he surely isn't doing it.

[benny2]

Hurrah for you byasliver,  You hit the hammer on the nail. We do have to say no more. I also have been walking on eggshells, taking the emotional abuse because I am afraid to say anything. I know I am miserable without him, but this push/pull part is just to much. I too need to say no more. He wants me one day and not sure the next. Bull! God give me the strength to move on. He has been in and out of my life for 17 years, totally turning it upside down everytime. I am a smart attractive women and have had other men interested in me but I can't even look their way. Why can't I find the strength to walk away from this man for good.

[Rockylove]

I still love him unconditionally but that doesn't mean I will put up with abusive behavior.

I feel the same way, but I really don't think my bf will ever understand the concept of unconditional love because of the black and white thinking.  There are moments when I think he "gets" certain concepts that aren't clearly black and white, but overall it's a very foreign concept to him especially in regard to love.

I hope your chat with him goes well.  We are due for that chat as well, but I'm waiting until next week when all of our "company" is finally gone.  We've not had meaningful conversations since the renovation began the end of January... .   I think it's time.

[connect]

Quote from Rockylove

I hope your chat with him goes well.  We are due for that chat as well, but I'm waiting until next week when all of our "company" is finally gone.  We've not had meaningful conversations since the renovation began the end of January... .   I think it's time.


Sorry Byasliver, just to chip in as an aside to Rockylove. I have found with my uBPDbf that home renovations are a trigger. He has been very up and down during the large works that are being carried out on his house. I have been following your story - perhaps that is why your guy has been feeling so unsettled too?

[byasliver]

The news is mixed. The chat did NOT go well: lots of projection. However, he had an appt that afternoon with a new T (his choosing) and offered for me to go with him. I did and I sat there in complete silence for about the first 45 min while she pretty much told him everything I had been saying: the denial, the deception, the detachment, every bit of it. It was so incredibly relieving! There was no way he could say I influenced her because he picked her out, I had never spoken with her and didn't say anything for the first part of the session. It ended up lasting about two hours but I had to leave early to pick up the kids from school. We didn't really talk that night because I thought it best to give it a rest. Early the next morning I had an appt with my T. Lots of good stuff came out of that session! T helped me realize I'm not really that codependent - just really love my H and want the best for him. He also helped me see ways that my H is trying even if it's just small steps. It was very positive and I left feeling great. I asked H that afternoon about his thoughts on his T session. He told me when his next appt is and that's about it. I didn't push it though. Baby steps. Yesterday, I was watching tv while eating my lunch and he came downstairs and sat on the couch opposite me for a few moments. It has been MONTHS since he's done anything like that. Yes, there are still issues but it helps that I'm seeing improvement, too.

The biggest thing I'm struggling with right now is the "self-centered" aspects. I do totally understand that H's illness is not about me. But it still hurts and is still very frustrating. I have to praise and acknowledge every miniscule effort on his part but nothing I do ever gets noticed. Even the stuff he b*tched at me about - I do it and... .   nothing. I know, I know... .   his perception is off and I can't let that affect my reality. Knowing it doesn't make it any easier to take. It doesn't help that it's a very gray day here and I know I have a mild form of SAD.

So how are you guys doing?

[TigerEye]

Can I ask what are your hopes/expectations when it comes to 'the talk'? Are you hoping that a light will go on in their head, that they will see things from your point of view?

Boundaries are totally about us, what we are willing to accept within a r/s, what our values are and what the consequences will be if those values are disregarded or the boundaries crossed. This will of course depend on the severity of the action. As you can see in 123Phoebe's list it can range from taking a short time out to leaving the relationship, but the most important part is that you must follow through with those consequences, consistently and fully. Anything less will be seen as you being weak and not meaning what you say. You have to be sure in your own mind that these are your values and you are prepared to live by them, whatever the outcome.

Boundary setting is not always about stating what you want in the r/s, it's more about what you do, your actions. I feel it would be naive to think that you can sit down and have a civilized conversation where by you say what's bothering you and then expect your SO to see things from your point of view, they can't, that's the whole problem. If they could they would have realized that their behavior was a problem long ago and would be able to apologize, show some remorse or try to make amends. Trying to list your concerns or what you want in the r/s can very easily be taken as an ultimatum and that never goes down well. You are asking them to change the person that they are, this can be like robbing them of their identity - cue meltdown. It is better that they learn by themselves that their actions causes your actions, they rage, you leave the room, they go silent, you let them and get on with your life, they cheat, you leave the r/s. And that's the biggest part, if the issue is one that is truly a deal beaker for you, you have to be prepared to leave the r/s, otherwise, who's values are you living by?

Boundary setting is something that I struggled with, but I am finding my feet now and it has made me feel better about myself. It is hard in the beginning, but it it so worthwhile. I had a deal breaking boundary to deal with, and I did leave the r/s. Did we recycle some weeks later? Yes. Is she still capable of breaking that boundary? Yes, but I understand that it will be her choice and I know what my actions will be, to leave and not return again. It is my own personal decision to allow her this one chance, but it is only one chance. She has seen that there are consequences to her actions and I am prepared to follow these through.

We did have 'the talk', it happened when I left her. It was all about what I was prepared to accept in a r/s, but at no point did I ask her to do anything, I used the DEARMAN technique and finished with "I am sorry but I can not be in a relationship where 'X' is a factor". It was met with projection, rage, tears, denial, lies, all of which I let happen. The boundary had been crossed, there was no acceptance or remorse and so I left. "The talk' was for me, not her, it was my chance to say my piece and let go of the outcome, that was not under my control but I knew what had to be done. When we did recycle, we had another talk and I stuck by what I said the first time. I now know that should it happen again I will feel no need to justify my actions, it will just happen.

Boundaries can work, but you have to enforce them and be fully accepting of the consequences, what ever the outcome, after all, they are YOUR boundaries.

[TigerEye]

Oops, sorry, over posted! I should have got in earlier.

[byasliver]

Thanks, Tigereye. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that their illness has nothing to do with us but the boundaries we set have to be all about us: boundaries WE set for OURSELVES. I am a very caring and empathetic person so it's hard to make myself think only about MY wants/needs.

To that end, I had made the decision that I wanted our talk to not really be about laying down ultimatums. I'd already learned that those only set my H into a rage. Instead, I really just wanted to lay out everything in the open. At the time, it was very upsetting because he simply projected everything onto me. Later, though, when I went to the therapist with him and she validated everything I said (without invalidating him - she's really good! It was impressive to watch), it felt like the point had been made. I told him in our talk that if the behavior continues we will not work out no matter how much I love him and want it to. Then the T told him basically the same thing: if he doesn't recognize what he's doing, he's wasting everyone's time including his own by just "pretending" to want help.

Right now, I'm just trying to take the good where I can find it. He stayed with his T for nearly an hour after I left and is attending a group session this afternoon. I also see tiny specks of his efforts in other ways. Over the next month or so, it will become apparent that he is either really trying to get help and heal or he's not. Then it will be time for me to decide my next step.

[TigerEye]

I hear what you are saying byasliver, it's a journey I've been on myself, it's all part of the self discovery we go through in these r/s when we choose to stay and work with those we love.

I am so glad for you that your SO is in treatment, that's the wish for so many, and his T sounds really cool, I just wish I could perfect the non invalidating thing! My SO is also now in T and I relish the moments where I can see even the tiniest glint of recognition or change in the behavior, it makes me hopefully of what could be sometime in the distant future.

Keep working on you, there is nothing wrong with being caring and empathetic, they are great qualities in a person, and by applying the lessons and setting and enforcing those boundaries you can make yourself battle ready for the fight ahead. T is not always an easy ride, so we have to be ready for when things go side ways, as they inevitably will at some point. Our SO's will have to face some really tough revelations about themselves and that can be very distressing for them, but by being aware and having understanding of the disorder, it can give us the strength to ride these episodes out, and failing that, we have our boundaries in place to protect US.

I wish you both the very best for your journey.

[briefcase]

These chats rarely "go well" if we judge them by our partners reactions.  Unfortunately, our partners don't respect, and maybe don't fully understand, our boundaries, which is why we need to learn to enforce them consistently by allowing the natural consequences of their behaviors to occur.  

However, these chats almost always "go well" if we judge them by whether we said what we needed to say - "laying out everything in the open," as you put it.  Judged by that standard, I'd say your chat did go well.  It really is about you and not him.   And, yes, for some of us it feels a little selfish and unnatural to put our own needs first.  

Applying boundaries to these relationships is hard work.  You are changing things, and he is not going to like it. He will likely continue to resist your efforts.  But, you are doing it and if you stay resolute this stuff gets easier.

You are doing great!