It's imperative to stay away from my BPDxbf but I feel like contacting him

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi All.

The first session of the domestic violence support group I have signed up for starts on Tuesday. I think attending the group will help me detach from my BPDxbf by showing me how risky my relationship would be given his unpredictability, uncontrolled emotions and abusive tendencies, but I'm struggling with the urge to contact him.

Today, I have been reading a book called Loving Someone With BPD by Shari Manning. She explains that the origins of BPD behaviour lie in two things: 1) pwBPD are hardwired to be highly emotional and 2) they were bought up in an invalidating environment (e.g. where there is a poor fit between the emotionality of family members). She keeps reiterating that the poor behaviour is not deliberate and gives suggestions for dealing with situations which arise. This is leaving me feeling regret and the urge to contact my BPDxbf, ostensibly to apologise. However, I know that on some levels I want more but I must resist because my BPDxbf's separated wife is being taken to court by UK social services under the child protection legislation for a care order for his daughter and her two step-brothers. A friend who is a social worker in child protection, has advised me that if I am seen to have any contact with him, I will automatically be investigated by the court as well. I have two daughters so I have to take them into account. I know that if we have any contact, it could move towards us meeting up and I have to avoid that at all costs. I don't want to cause him unnecessary hurt or put myself in a situation where I have to 'reject him' again, so I must desist. Yet, I feel needy and I am regretting that I was unable to manage our interactions. I can only be grateful that we have split up already so I don't have to split up with him just to avoid an investigation. However, I feel pretty rotten right now.

In many ways, being angry with my ex, thinking he was deliberately mean rather than simply acting impulsively out of hurt or fear helped me keep away. Having some understanding of the reason for his behaviour (abusive as it is) makes me feel sorry for him and undermines my resolve. I still can't square the possibility that someone can be unintentionally abusive. I need to find a way to have compassion for him AND detach. I don't know how to do that.

Lifewriter x

[Lifewriter16]

Hi All.

The first session of the domestic violence support group I have signed up for starts on Tuesday. I think attending the group will help me detach from my BPDxbf by showing me how risky my relationship would be given his unpredictability, uncontrolled emotions and abusive tendencies, but I'm struggling with the urge to contact him.

Today, I have been reading a book called Loving Someone With BPD by Shari Manning. She explains that the origins of BPD behaviour lie in two things: 1) pwBPD are hardwired to be highly emotional and 2) they were bought up in an invalidating environment (e.g. where there is a poor fit between the emotionality of family members). She keeps reiterating that the poor behaviour is not deliberate and gives suggestions for dealing with situations which arise. This is leaving me feeling regret and the urge to contact my BPDxbf, ostensibly to apologise. However, I know that on some levels I want more but I must resist because my BPDxbf's separated wife is being taken to court by UK social services under the child protection legislation for a care order for his daughter and her two step-brothers. A friend who is a social worker in child protection, has advised me that if I am seen to have any contact with him, I will automatically be investigated by the court as well. I have two daughters so I have to take them into account. I know that if we have any contact, it could move towards us meeting up and I have to avoid that at all costs. I don't want to cause him unnecessary hurt or put myself in a situation where I have to 'reject him' again, so I must desist. Yet, I feel needy and I am regretting that I was unable to manage our interactions. I can only be grateful that we have split up already so I don't have to split up with him just to avoid an investigation. However, I feel pretty rotten right now.

In many ways, being angry with my ex, thinking he was deliberately mean rather than simply acting impulsively out of hurt or fear helped me keep away. Having some understanding of the reason for his behaviour (abusive as it is) makes me feel sorry for him and undermines my resolve. I still can't square the possibility that someone can be unintentionally abusive. I need to find a way to have compassion for him AND detach. I don't know how to do that.

Lifewriter x

[Larmoyant]

Hi Lifewriter, I can so relate to this and have had the same conversation with my therapist. Feeling sorry for him has often been my undoing and one of the reasons I kept going back and the more I learn about BPD the more sorrow I feel for him. However, as my therapist said whether he deliberately meant to hurt you or whether it was through hurt or fear the fact remains that he hurt you. The outcome was the same whether he meant it or couldn’t help it. My ex is abusive too and can be very, very cruel. I am, and so is my therapist, convinced that a lot of it was deliberate. He hurt and he wanted me to hurt. Your ex still knows right from wrong. It helps me to remember that.

[Wize]

That's a tough situation.  Fortunately, you have more than enough reasons, legal and otherwise, for not contacting him.  Of course that doesn't mean you don't miss him desperately, it just means that your longing for him doesn't dictate your actions. That's where discipline comes in.  :)iscipline in the emotional/behavioral aspect is not something we witnessed with our BPDex's.  And there's a good chance our own emotional and behavioral conduct got a little weak as well in the process. That's what happens in a chaotic environment.

You mentioned detachment. I've always looked at it like this: We have all these emotional tentacles, there's a finite number of them.  We attach some to our family, some to our friends, our children, and a good deal of them to our romantic life partner.  When any one of those relationships begins to fail, those tentacles are stretched, it feels like we're being pulled apart. That's the pain that we feel when a relationship fails. A part of us is getting ripped apart. As we detach, we stopped getting pulled apart. We detach when the pain gets to be too much.

I still love my stbxBPDw.  One of the main reasons I still love her is because her behavior was the result of a nasty disorder.  Beneath all the chaos and pain she is a beautiful person, kind, loving, smart.  I wanted nothing more than to spend the rest of my life with her.  But I have boundaries and the people in my life must respect them.  She didn't.  

[myself]

Ask this kind of important stuff in the support group, too.

How to have compassion yet stay focused on detachment?

How to best take care of yourself instead of turning to the abuser?

The time he's dealing with court is extra time for you to deal with You.

If it's imperative to stay away, please heed that and stay away.

Deeply letting go is a process, as you know, especially while wounded.

[HurtinNW]

I've struggled with this too. In fact it is often my compassion and empathy that has led me to recycle, along with other issues. My therapist wants me to stay in the anger so I can fully detach.

Understand and compassion is okay. That recognizes your ex hasn't been deliberate in his actions. But you have to also recognize that regardless of his intent, he still does bad things. And he is the only one who can change that.

Your compassion will not heal him. That is the bottom line.

I'm still angry at my ex, but now my anger has a new flavor. I am mad he is not choosing to address his illness. He could choose to change, but he is not. That lets me have compassion from a safe difference. I feel sad he doesn't choose to change.

There are tons of us who came from traumatic and neglectful and abusive backgrounds who choose to fight our demons and losses and shame, who choose to try and be healthy, good, loving people, who choose therapy and support. Just like you, Lifewriter, choosing to come here. No matter what our challenges we still have free choice on how to address them, and I respectfully suggest you are letting your compassion give him an out for his responsibility. It enables him to continue bad behavior and invalidates the consequences.

Compassion is different than pity. Compassion lets us feel for people even from afar, while still holding them accountable for their role in things. Pity is when we let them off the hook entirely. It's when we infantalize them. Do you think there is any chance that your compassion is actually more like pity? Can you see that just because someone doesn't do something deliberately, they are still responsible for their behavior?

[Lifewriter16]

Thanks everyone. You all make very valid and useful points and the fact you all took time to reply means a great deal to me. I think Hurtin has hit upon my current sticking point:

Can you see that just because someone doesn't do something deliberately, they are still responsible for their behavior?

I don't think I do. I've concluded that he has no choice about or control over his behaviour because of his past (and hence it is unreasonable for me to walk away). I'd be really interested in hearing your explanations about why he is responsible for his behaviour despite his past.




I have woken up this morning with a thought that is bothering me. The thought is this: 'The whole story is projection on my part.' To explain, the 'story' I refer to is a tale, a fabrication of abuse on his part borne not out of reality but out of my own projections. As such, it is unreasonable.

What if it is a projection and I am wrong? What if I am the one creating the problems. During the 36 hours running up to me ending the relationship, I was aware that I'd developed fear of him and was very anxious. I wanted to take time out to try and examine what was beneath that which is why I cancelled the date that I had with him. I knew that there was probably some fear that originated with my father's violence tainting our interactions. I also knew that I felt okay with my BPDxbf when we were together, but whenever we were apart, that's when things went wrong - he raged and I got anxious. I always put it down to him projecting his anger on me, yet he said a couple of things over the run up to the breakup that challenged me. Here they are (as summaries of what he said not direct quotations:

'Unless you accept that you are angry with me, you will ruin our relationship.'

'Things are generally only bad between us when we are not together. Perhaps your notion that I am going to threaten to dump you or leave you, is just a projection because you are so frightened that I will leave you. You fear I will reject you and then perceive wrongly that it is happening.'

What if he is right? It's all too easy to get caught up in psychologically-couched abuse. I'm not sure how he can explain away calling me a string of abusive names though. I know that happened. However, that's the only thing that's stopping me disappearing down the rabbit hole. What do you think? Is this just him messing with my head to get out of being responsible for his actions, or am I the mad one?




Thanks in anticipation of your replies.

Lifewriter x

[Lifewriter16]

PS. I feel like I'm being so disloyal, that I am betraying the man I love. I feel like a dreadful person for doing this.

LW x

[LilMe]

I can certainly relate to what you are feeling!  I felt I was betraying my uBPD when I went forward and asked for help to get away from his abuse.  It has been about 3 months now and I still have periods of guilt and sadness.  But at some point, we deserve to be as important (or more important!) than our BPD's!  I am working hard to learn to put myself first sometimes.  It is OK.  We cannot totally sacrifice ourselves for them or anyone else.  They will just keep taking more and more as we give more and more until we are completely sucked dry.

Did you (and I) have issues that made the relationship worse?  Of course!  We are human and not perfect!  But keep in mind that BPD's have an uncanny ability to pick up on our deepest fears and pain and use it against us.  I think you answered your own question -  yes, maybe you had abandonment issues when you were apart that were hard for him to deal with, but that doesn't give him permission to verbally abuse you!  In a normal relationship you would be able to kindly work through these types of issues in a loving manner!

On the one hand I understand that it is hard for my uBPD to control his emotions (and mouth) with those he is close to.  He has definitely had terrible things happen in his life that are likely the cause of his uBPD.  He has admitted to me that he gets an overwhelming fear that seems to take over his mind.  But then why is he able to control himself around others?  Mine NEVER calls anyone other than his close family those awful names or says or does those awful things.  I suppose if he unilaterally had the same behaviors with everyone I could say he can't control it.  But that is not the case.

Then why do I still care and love him so much?  Aaargh!  He can be an amazing, loving person.  He can also be an awful, abusive person.  It is confusing to my brain.  I definitely feel that it is a chemical addiction in my brain.

One last thing.  I can almost guarantee that the abuse would get worse in time.  Mine started with little put downs, then name calling and raging, then holding me down, pushing me, etc.  He went through a domestic violence program and was better for a while, but eventually the cycle started again.  He now says that he only went through the course as a step in AA.  I think it is very rare for abusers to recover.

I send hope that you will be surrounded by love and peace and happiness and the darkness will lift and turn into beautiful light.

[Ahoy]

I've struggled with this too. In fact it is often my compassion and empathy that has led me to recycle, along with other issues. My therapist wants me to stay in the anger so I can fully detach.

Understand and compassion is okay. That recognizes your ex hasn't been deliberate in his actions. But you have to also recognize that regardless of his intent, he still does bad things. And he is the only one who can change that.

Your compassion will not heal him. That is the bottom line.

I'm still angry at my ex, but now my anger has a new flavor. I am mad he is not choosing to address his illness. He could choose to change, but he is not. That lets me have compassion from a safe difference. I feel sad he doesn't choose to change.

There are tons of us who came from traumatic and neglectful and abusive backgrounds who choose to fight our demons and losses and shame, who choose to try and be healthy, good, loving people, who choose therapy and support. Just like you, Lifewriter, choosing to come here. No matter what our challenges we still have free choice on how to address them, and I respectfully suggest you are letting your compassion give him an out for his responsibility. It enables him to continue bad behavior and invalidates the consequences.

Compassion is different than pity. Compassion lets us feel for people even from afar, while still holding them accountable for their role in things. Pity is when we let them off the hook entirely. It's when we infantalize them. Do you think there is any chance that your compassion is actually more like pity? Can you see that just because someone doesn't do something deliberately, they are still responsible for their behavior?

I'm sorry you are going through a tough spell lifewriter, I think you are being way, way to hard on yourself. People don't find this site for no reason. Serious things have malfunctioned in your relationship and you were looking for an answer to an unanswered question.

I knew where you are coming from thinking about how someone so disordered should be held responsible for their actions. I had a tough time coming to my own conclusion about this and It's summed up by the bolded section in the quote. We ALL have our demons, some little some big. I have my own I face every day.

I am lucky that my brain is wired 'normally' and I can think rationally and deal with my problems in a constructive way. Of course we know borderlines are not so lucky. Its like they are given a shifting spanner, a roll of tape and a screwdriver and told to do a full service on a car. It's not fair to them, if fact it's terrible!

But as disadvantaged as they are in that respect, they KNOW the difference between right behavior and wrong behavior. When my ex was cheating, it was careful and calculated. Steps were taken to conceal and disguise her actions because she KNEW what she was doing was wrong.

Like Hurting, my anger stems from the fact that she took her problems into marriage, yet still (probably) followed her usual MO/behavioral patterns. She made no effort to work on herself and took the easy way out. Yes her working on herself is likely a lot harder than someone non-disordered but the fact of the matter is, she did actions (a lot of them) that she knew was deceitful and wrong and chose to follow through with them.

Not holding our borderlines accountable and putting things down as them having no choice feels like enabling and nothing more.

lets think in extremes. What about someone that has had sex with children. Say he was conditioned to feel this way. Do we accept that he has no control over his thoughts or behavior or do we put the onus on him to accept he has issues and he needs to rehabilitate?

Once again, no matter what you did, you came here and became an very active member for a reason. Don't forget those reasons.

[C.Stein]

I've concluded that he has no choice about or control over his behaviour because of his past (and hence it is unreasonable for me to walk away). I'd be really interested in hearing your explanations about why he is responsible for his behaviour despite his past.

BPD is a treatable disorder in that the related abusive/damaging behaviors can be managed with work and effort on the part of the person suffering from the disorder.  If this were not the case then DBT would not show any success in treating the disorder.

Do you think perhaps you are internalizing his disorder because you cannot accept he can learn to manage it if he truly wants to?

[Lifewriter16]

Hi there, LilMe.

Thank you. You can't imagine how reassuring it is to talk to someone who has walked before me. This whole process is really deepening my understanding of what domestic violence is and how it impacts upon people, which is of relevance because I have had ambitions to work in this field for some time, but lacked the confidence to do so. I never realised that part of my training would be walking the path myself though.

You are right when you say our pwBPD have an uncanny way of picking up our weak spots and using them against us. Keeping hold of reality when up against the onslaught is something that I've found difficult. I have really come to doubt myself as a result of my last two relationships. My previous fella had NPD traits and ran me down physically and sexually. My self-confidence just slipped away to nothing.

I send hope that you will be surrounded by love and peace and happiness and the darkness will lift and turn into beautiful light.

The same to you... .

Love Lifewriter

[Lifewriter16]

Why have I lost sight of the obvious here, Ahoy? Of course my BPDxbf knows wrong from right. Of course he is choosing his actions in spite of knowing better. I think C.Stein is right. I don't want to accept that my BPDxbf could manage his behaviour if he wanted to because it would lead me to conclude that he just doesn't think enough of me to treat me properly.

Lifewriter x

[jhkbuzz]

Hi All.

The first session of the domestic violence support group I have signed up for starts on Tuesday. I think attending the group will help me detach from my BPDxbf by showing me how risky my relationship would be given his unpredictability, uncontrolled emotions and abusive tendencies, but I'm struggling with the urge to contact him.

Today, I have been reading a book called Loving Someone With BPD by Shari Manning. She explains that the origins of BPD behaviour lie in two things: 1) pwBPD are hardwired to be highly emotional and 2) they were bought up in an invalidating environment (e.g. where there is a poor fit between the emotionality of family members). She keeps reiterating that the poor behaviour is not deliberate and gives suggestions for dealing with situations which arise. This is leaving me feeling regret and the urge to contact my BPDxbf, ostensibly to apologise. However, I know that on some levels I want more but I must resist because my BPDxbf's separated wife is being taken to court by UK social services under the child protection legislation for a care order for his daughter and her two step-brothers. A friend who is a social worker in child protection, has advised me that if I am seen to have any contact with him, I will automatically be investigated by the court as well. I have two daughters so I have to take them into account. I know that if we have any contact, it could move towards us meeting up and I have to avoid that at all costs. I don't want to cause him unnecessary hurt or put myself in a situation where I have to 'reject him' again, so I must desist. Yet, I feel needy and I am regretting that I was unable to manage our interactions. I can only be grateful that we have split up already so I don't have to split up with him just to avoid an investigation. However, I feel pretty rotten right now.

In many ways, being angry with my ex, thinking he was deliberately mean rather than simply acting impulsively out of hurt or fear helped me keep away. Having some understanding of the reason for his behaviour (abusive as it is) makes me feel sorry for him and undermines my resolve. I still can't square the possibility that someone can be unintentionally abusive. I need to find a way to have compassion for him AND detach. I don't know how to do that.

Lifewriter x

Hi Lifewriter, it is clear that you are still in the process of grieving - and that takes as long as it takes. No judgment from me, no "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get on with your life" from me. One of the most difficult things for me to accept is that my r/s deeply traumatized me as an adult.  An intelligent, independent, strong-willed adult. The longer I'm out of the r/s (almost two years), the more this realization shocks me. The whole experience was simply devastating to me.

But, even in the throes of pain, in the process of detaching, there is a blessing. I noticed that your post is all about your ex. It was a turning point for me when (especially in therapy) I stopped focusing on my ex and began to focus on myself - my feelings, my wounds, what I needed.

This is the truth, although you may not see it or understand it right now: your longing for your ex is not about your ex - it's about you. You stand to gain nothing - and have quite a bit to lose - by initiating contact. Here's a thought: turn that compassion you are trying to generate for your ex towards yourself. YOU need it right now - frightened, lonely, sad Lifewriter needs a lot of compassion and love right now. Try giving that to yourself and let everyone else (including your ex) take care of their own needs.

She keeps reiterating that the poor behaviour is not deliberate and gives suggestions for dealing with situations which arise. This is leaving me feeling regret and the urge to contact my BPDxbf... .

I struggled with that ^ too. But the truth is that this 'unintentional abuse' still wrecked me and left me with scars that I will carry for a very long time. Intentional or not, anyone who abuses me no longer gets a seat at the table of my life.

If I had to guess, Lifewriter, I would guess that there was an adult in your childhood that was physically abusive, and you spent a lot of time trying to "fix" the situation. Am I right?

[Lifewriter16]

Hi jhkbuzz,

I feel for you. Sometimes, when I look at the damage a BPD relationship does to an adult, I wonder how the children survive it and I could weep for them. Somehow, I can't feel for me. I'm not sure I really understand what you mean by this, though I guess that it's connected with my last comment. Can you explain further, please?

This is the truth, although you may not see it or understand it right now: your longing for your ex is not about your ex - it's about you. You stand to gain nothing - and have quite a bit to lose - by initiating contact. Here's a thought: turn that compassion you are trying to generate for your ex towards yourself. YOU need it right now - frightened, lonely, sad Lifewriter needs a lot of compassion and love right now. Try giving that to yourself and let everyone else (including your ex) take care of their own needs.

If I had to guess, Lifewriter, I would guess that there was an adult in your childhood that was physically abusive, and you spent a lot of time trying to "fix" the situation. Am I right?

You're not wrong there, jhkbuzz. My father used to take my brothers into another room and beat them under the guise of disciplining them because they had been badly behaved for my mother whilst he was out. Her role was to set him upon them. I only witnessed this. He didn't beat me during those times. However, I am told that he lost his temper with me when I was two and that's when he took me out of the room and beat me. My mother said that my father was so shocked by what he did that he vowed he'd never beat me again. It sounds terrifying but I have no memory of it. How can a grown man, an ex army drill sergeant, beat a toddler?


Thanks for your post.

Lifewriter x

[patientandclear]

LW--my sense of your own ambivalent feelings about the abuse question is that you have made a leap from current verbal dynamics and your sense of his past, and sometimes wonder if you risk physical violence by continuing to be close to him. But he has not been physically abusive with you. And so that assumption or prediction or fear sometimes feels unfair to you, and you doubt your own reactions because that leap may not be warranted.

I think to the extent that you explain your misgivings about this r/ship in terms of your risk of physical violence, you will always have some doubts about whether your decision was/is warranted. Because it was/is a leap on your part to assume he would use violence with you.

I suspect you have resorted to that label and category because it yields more black and white conclusions about what you should do, than if you focus on what he actually did do, and the dynamic btwn you, which is more confusing and complex.

If you can stick with what actually did happen btwn you two and reach appropriate conclusions from that, which could absolutely be the same as the conclusions you reached about his risk of engaging in physical violence, I think you will feel on more solid ground about the path you are choosing.

Abusive dynamics are abusive dynamics whether or not physical abuse is involved. I lived through both in my marriage (not to the BPD man about whom I post here) and the emotional abuse and abandonment and torture was the more damaging. So I am not suggesting, just because your physical violence fears are speculative, that there is not abuse making the course you are taking relevant. Just that stepping away from the assumption that he would have eventually physical hurt you may allow more light on what WAS in fact going on. With less ambivalence and second guessing on your part.

[HurtinNW]

Can you see that just because someone doesn't do something deliberately, they are still responsible for their behavior?

I don't think I do. I've concluded that he has no choice about or control over his behaviour because of his past (and hence it is unreasonable for me to walk away). I'd be really interested in hearing your explanations about why he is responsible for his behaviour despite his past.


Lifewriter x

Everyone is responsible for their behavior, no matter how horrible their past. I came from a background of horrific abuse, quite frankly, probably worse than your ex. We are all responsible for how we deal with our pasts. You can find dozens of examples of people who have survived abuse and gone on to create amazing lives. Maya Angelou, Tony Morrison, to give just two examples.

As C. Stein pointed out, personality disorders are not untreatable. Yes, most people with PDs come from abusive backgrounds. But many of us nons come from abusive backgrounds too. Correlation is not causality. I suspect that the difference is, for whatever reasons, people with PDs fail to learn accountability. They fail to develop the ability to reflect on themselves and take responsibility for their choices.

But the fact they chose not to change does not mean they are incapable of it. Just like an alcoholic that refuses to quit drinking, or someone with an eating disorder that refuses help. All are capable of change and responsible for it. Sadly, the fact they can't own even one mistake often means they end up making more and more mistakes.

I think you are making yourself responsible for his behavior, by assuming it is your job to accept it. Why? What prize will you get if you have a relationship with someone who denies personal responsibility for abuse? What is going inside you that makes you feel that is what you are worth?

One of the confounding things about these disorders, for me as well, is how someone can know right from wrong and yet still not take accountability. That's BPD and NPD. My ex feels absolutely zero shame for being abusive to me. He believes it was my fault. Any relationship with him would be predicated on the fact he knows abuse is wrong and yet still does it, rewriting the story into one where I asked for it and it never really happened.

I agree with jhkbuzz, this is about you. I hope I am not sounding too direct, but he has made himself clear about who he is, and you are looking for ways to excuse his behavior. In a sense you are not honoring who he is, either. You are creating your own narrative to explain and justify his abuse. That's coming from someplace in you, and understanding why Lifewriter is doing this would be good for you. After all, you can bet he is not reading books in how to understand spectrum disorders and turning himself inside out trying to be the right partner for you. What is inside Lifewriter that makes her want this contact? What is going on inside you that we can help you with, in support?

Sending huge HUGS  

[bAlex]

Do you think the book you're reading might be making you feel worse, could it be making you doubt your decisions or the way you handled things?

[steelwork]

Can you see that just because someone doesn't do something deliberately, they are still responsible for their behavior?

I don't think I do. I've concluded that he has no choice about or control over his behaviour because of his past (and hence it is unreasonable for me to walk away). I'd be really interested in hearing your explanations about why he is responsible for his behaviour despite his past.

Can I take a stab at this? It's something I've thought about a lot, not just with respect to my ex (though also that). I have an issue with forgiving myself, and partly that's because I have wrestled with the fear that I will be "making excuses for" things I've done that have hurt others if I explore the roots of them.

Here is how I've come to think of it. Our current American president didn't cause the economic collapse in 2008. He wasn't the commander-in-chief when troops were committed to Iraq in 2003.  He inherited those problems, and countless others that have made his job nearly impossible, but he has now been president for almost eight years, and he's accountable for how those matters have been handled during his two terms in office.

When we grow up, we become the presidents of our lives. Some of us come into office with the economy in shambles and two wars in the Middle East, but it's our job to do the best we can. We all cause damage to other people. Usually we can trace some part of our actions to something that happened before we were in office. We must learn to forgive ourselves. It behooves us to learn to forgive others as well. But forgiveness is not the same thing as letting someone off the hook.

[steelwork]

I've concluded that he has no choice about or control over his behaviour because of his past (and hence it is unreasonable for me to walk away).

I also wonder if you can zero in on this. It seems to me that your "and hence" papers over quite a lot. Why does his hypothetical lack of control or choice make it unreasonable for you to walk away?

[Leonis]

Have you ever got the feeling that you want to jab the hornet's nest just for a reaction?

[myself]

I don't want to accept that my BPDxbf could manage his behaviour if he wanted to because it would lead me to conclude that he just doesn't think enough of me to treat me properly.

So many of us have been there... .Are you also feeling that if you can somehow solve this (perhaps unsolvable) puzzle, even if it means taking on things that aren't really yours, that then you'll be worthy of being treated properly? That could point toward feelings of you somehow deserve to be abused, so as HurtinNW asked, where does that come from? Which of the various versions of the story is closest to your truths, and how can you best proceed from there? Why hang on to something that not only keeps burning you, but has had many chances to not do so yet (intentionally or not) continues? Is it the 'letting go' you're having the most trouble with? Don't end up abusing yourself by twisting too far out of shape. 'Acceptance' is facing the whole picture not just what we do or do not want to see.

[rfriesen]

One of the most difficult things for me to accept is that my r/s deeply traumatized me as an adult.  An intelligent, independent, strong-willed adult. The longer I'm out of the r/s (almost two years), the more this realization shocks me. The whole experience was simply devastating to me.

But, even in the throes of pain, in the process of detaching, there is a blessing. I noticed that your post is all about your ex. It was a turning point for me when (especially in therapy) I stopped focusing on my ex and began to focus on myself - my feelings, my wounds, what I needed.

This is the truth, although you may not see it or understand it right now: your longing for your ex is not about your ex - it's about you. You stand to gain nothing - and have quite a bit to lose - by initiating contact. Here's a thought: turn that compassion you are trying to generate for your ex towards yourself. YOU need it right now - frightened, lonely, sad Lifewriter needs a lot of compassion and love right now. Try giving that to yourself and let everyone else (including your ex) take care of their own needs.

This really speaks to me, especially as I feel I'm just at that stage of recovery when it's really beginning to sink in that I have no choice but to turn my focus on myself. The past year-and-a-half relationship with my exBPDgf has disoriented me like nothing else in my life. We fell very hard for each other, and it blinded me to so much. I had never before been in a relationship with yelling and screaming and insults and threats of cheating, and then the intense overwhelming passionate making-up and feeling whole again, but always followed by walking on eggshells and trying to "manage" the situation. It was a real shock and a bitter pill to swallow (to say the least) when I finally realized I was in the kind of dysfunctional relationship that had always made me shake my head when I saw it from the outside.

But from the inside, here was this woman I had fallen madly in love with, who had made me feel like everything she had always been waiting for, and through her anger and pain and tears she was clinging desperately to me, hoping and waiting for me to somehow save the situation. And of course I had made mistakes in the relationship, by no means was I the hero she had initially made me out to be. In my case, I became withdrawn and hid things from her once she started turning angry and jealous and possessive. So she had ammunition. And it created an unbelievable cycle of guilt and regret and feelings of inadequacy, followed of course by her once again building me back up as her saviour.

I know that the beautiful, loving, sweet, laughing, kind-hearted woman I fell in love with is still there, behind walls that have now been built very high out of resentment and anger and hurt and disappointment. And I saw her again last week and we spent some time talking and reminiscing and I know she still clings to some hope of me riding in and saving the situation again. And it kills me still. I have never in my life felt regret and sadness like this. It still keeps me up at night and I still have moments when I convince myself "maybe just maybe" I could ride in and fix things.

And, really, there is nothing that is absolutely, 100% certain in life. If I had been a stronger person at the beginning of our relationship, more certain of who I was, better able to maintain my boundaries while still showing love and compassion, with an understanding of BPD, etc etc ... .well, maybe I could have been that hero. Most likely not -- my ex has a long-established pattern of discarding those who fully and truly give themselves to her, and who am I to think I could have been different?

But I would be lying if I said I don't still have moments when I feel crippled by the question whether I really could have been different, been "the one", been strong enough to pull her through. I don't want to hide behind the false certainty of saying, "no one could have made it work with her". What I need now is to work through why I fell so hard and let myself be tossed around and beat down by this relationship. When I think of my ex still having moments of hoping and waiting for me, it causes me a heartache that I can't describe and never knew before. But I know that there is a world of hurt and shame and guilt waiting for me if I try to climb her walls again, and I've made the choice that I cannot sacrifice myself in the way she's demanding. It's incredibly seductive -- to be built up so high as a saviour, then to feel your love's desperation as she begs you to stay, begs you just to sacrifice yourself and she promises to catch you if you do. But knowing how she was ready to hurt me in the past, I have no trust in that promise, even if she means it from the bottom of her heart in the moment she's making it.

That's one of the hardest points, and I think it goes to your question whether someone with BPD traits is "in control" or "responsible" for their actions. I don't think this is a yes-or-no question. When I think of my ex, I feel she has no stable self, at least not in the way most people do. In her loving and kind moments, she for the most part is sincere in what she says and does -- she wants to be that kind and loving person and means it when she promises to commit to that. There are other sides to her, though, and when she rages and insults and demeans, I wouldn't say she has "no control" and bears no responsibility, but that she has trouble being consistent and stable in her personality.

I could say that darker side "isn't really her" ... .but I've come to the conclusion that it is. And mainly because over a year-and-a-half, she never gave me a sign that she wanted to try to change. "I'm sorry, but I'm a fiery a girl!" is the closest she would come to admitting it's not normal. She wants me to do all the work of saving the situation, and that's what I remind myself of when I really feel weak and like I should have tried harder.

I sum things up like this for me, at least at this stage of moving on: I fell very very hard for a dysfunctional relationship; I played my part in contributing to the dysfunction; I ache all over for my ex and do wish I could have been a better stronger person during our relationship; but our talks and attempts to work things out focused solely on everything that was wrong with me; my ex showed no real commitment to addressing her issues; I can't save her in those circumstances; more important, I need to work through all the pain and heartache that has come up in me before I can even think of lifting any other person up.

Sorry for rambling. It helps me, and maybe some thought or two in here will resonate with you and also help a little ... .

[Lifewriter16]

Hi there everyone.

Thanks for all your posts. You've given me lots to reflect upon and I feel like I've had a good shaking up. I won't respond right now. I sense there's all sorts of emotions been triggered, which isn't a bad thing, but it does limit my capacity to make sense of the written word. I really don't know the answers to the questions you suggest I ask of myself. So, I'm going to sleep on this and come back to it tomorrow. I suspect I am on the verge of some important learning. I'm aware that I haven't given most of you the considered responses I think your posts warrant, my apologies for that, especially to those of you who may have been experiencing pain as you shared. I REALLY appreciate the efforts you have gone to. Your support is making a real difference to me.

Love Lifewriter

[jhkbuzz]

Hi jhkbuzz,

I feel for you. Sometimes, when I look at the damage a BPD relationship does to an adult, I wonder how the children survive it and I could weep for them. Somehow, I can't feel for me. I'm not sure I really understand what you mean by this, though I guess that it's connected with my last comment. Can you explain further, please?

This is the truth, although you may not see it or understand it right now: your longing for your ex is not about your ex - it's about you. You stand to gain nothing - and have quite a bit to lose - by initiating contact. Here's a thought: turn that compassion you are trying to generate for your ex towards yourself. YOU need it right now - frightened, lonely, sad Lifewriter needs a lot of compassion and love right now. Try giving that to yourself and let everyone else (including your ex) take care of their own needs.

If I had to guess, Lifewriter, I would guess that there was an adult in your childhood that was physically abusive, and you spent a lot of time trying to "fix" the situation. Am I right?

You're not wrong there, jhkbuzz. My father used to take my brothers into another room and beat them under the guise of disciplining them because they had been badly behaved for my mother whilst he was out. Her role was to set him upon them. I only witnessed this. He didn't beat me during those times. However, I am told that he lost his temper with me when I was two and that's when he took me out of the room and beat me. My mother said that my father was so shocked by what he did that he vowed he'd never beat me again. It sounds terrifying but I have no memory of it. How can a grown man, an ex army drill sergeant, beat a toddler?


Thanks for your post.

Lifewriter x

Sometimes the people in our lives are a stand-in, and our longing to "fix" our r/s with them is actually a longing to fix a r/s that we had no control over in childhood. Sometimes this is called "repetition compulsion". None of the feelings you are struggling with today are really about your ex. Your longing is about you - about how you can "fix" someone who rages and abuses so that they will love you the way you need to be loved. There is a little girl inside of you that holds out hope that you can finally, finally accomplish this today in a way you couldn't all those years ago.

That little girl needs your love and compassion. You need to comfort her, and try to convince her that your ex does not hold the key to your happiness - and that re-engaging with him will only bring you harm.

[HurtinNW]

Hi jhkbuzz,

I feel for you. Sometimes, when I look at the damage a BPD relationship does to an adult, I wonder how the children survive it and I could weep for them. Somehow, I can't feel for me. I'm not sure I really understand what you mean by this, though I guess that it's connected with my last comment. Can you explain further, please?

This is the truth, although you may not see it or understand it right now: your longing for your ex is not about your ex - it's about you. You stand to gain nothing - and have quite a bit to lose - by initiating contact. Here's a thought: turn that compassion you are trying to generate for your ex towards yourself. YOU need it right now - frightened, lonely, sad Lifewriter needs a lot of compassion and love right now. Try giving that to yourself and let everyone else (including your ex) take care of their own needs.

If I had to guess, Lifewriter, I would guess that there was an adult in your childhood that was physically abusive, and you spent a lot of time trying to "fix" the situation. Am I right?

You're not wrong there, jhkbuzz. My father used to take my brothers into another room and beat them under the guise of disciplining them because they had been badly behaved for my mother whilst he was out. Her role was to set him upon them. I only witnessed this. He didn't beat me during those times. However, I am told that he lost his temper with me when I was two and that's when he took me out of the room and beat me. My mother said that my father was so shocked by what he did that he vowed he'd never beat me again. It sounds terrifying but I have no memory of it. How can a grown man, an ex army drill sergeant, beat a toddler?


Thanks for your post.

Lifewriter x

Sometimes the people in our lives are a stand-in, and our longing to "fix" our r/s with them is actually a longing to fix a r/s that we had no control over in childhood. Sometimes this is called "repetition compulsion". None of the feelings you are struggling with today are really about your ex. Your longing is about you - about how you can "fix" someone who rages and abuses so that they will love you the way you need to be loved. There is a little girl inside of you that holds out hope that you can finally, finally accomplish this today in a way you couldn't all those years ago.

That little girl needs your love and compassion. You need to comfort her, and try to convince her that your ex does not hold the key to your happiness - and that re-engaging with him will only bring you harm.

This. Beautifully said, and, oh so very true for me. And I suspect others.

Thank you.

[Lifewriter16]

But, even in the throes of pain, in the process of detaching, there is a blessing. I noticed that your post is all about your ex. It was a turning point for me when (especially in therapy) I stopped focusing on my ex and began to focus on myself - my feelings, my wounds, what I needed.

This is the truth, although you may not see it or understand it right now: your longing for your ex is not about your ex - it's about you. You stand to gain nothing - and have quite a bit to lose - by initiating contact. Here's a thought: turn that compassion you are trying to generate for your ex towards yourself. YOU need it right now - frightened, lonely, sad Lifewriter needs a lot of compassion and love right now. Try giving that to yourself and let everyone else (including your ex) take care of their own needs.

Sometimes the people in our lives are a stand-in, and our longing to "fix" our r/s with them is actually a longing to fix a r/s that we had no control over in childhood. Sometimes this is called "repetition compulsion". None of the feelings you are struggling with today are really about your ex. Your longing is about you - about how you can "fix" someone who rages and abuses so that they will love you the way you need to be loved. There is a little girl inside of you that holds out hope that you can finally, finally accomplish this today in a way you couldn't all those years ago.

Jhkbuzz, I get you now. Thank you for clarifying what you meant. As Hurtin says, your reply is beautifully put and it's true of me also. What it boils down to, I think, is this: I wanted my dad. And my BPDxbf reminded me of him in so many ways that it was like coming home. It did feel right which makes this relationship so much harder to let go of. Unfortunately, the similarities with my father were deeper, and potentially more dangerous, than I ever anticipated they would be.

That little girl needs your love and compassion. You need to comfort her, and try to convince her that your ex does not hold the key to your happiness - and that re-engaging with him will only bring you harm.

Why does this seem like such a challenge? Why does it feel so much harder to love myself than it does to love someone else? Which takes me into the issues that others have raised in this thread.

Thanks again.

Lifewriter x

[Lifewriter16]

I think you are making yourself responsible for his behavior, by assuming it is your job to accept it. Why? What prize will you get if you have a relationship with someone who denies personal responsibility for abuse? What is going inside you that makes you feel that is what you are worth?... .

I agree with jhkbuzz, this is about you. I hope I am not sounding too direct, but he has made himself clear about who he is, and you are looking for ways to excuse his behavior. In a sense you are not honoring who he is, either. You are creating your own narrative to explain and justify his abuse. That's coming from someplace in you, and understanding why Lifewriter is doing this would be good for you. After all, you can bet he is not reading books in how to understand spectrum disorders and turning himself inside out trying to be the right partner for you. What is inside Lifewriter that makes her want this contact? What is going on inside you that we can help you with, in support?

Sending huge HUGS   

You are so right that he isn't reading books on how to understand spectrum disorders or turning himself inside out trying to be the right partner for me. I offered him a book about AS to read once. He wouldn't take it even though he claimed he was an avid book reader. It made me think he really just didn't care about me.  :'(

I'm sure you're right about the rest too, but that pain is so much deeper. It's going to take a bit of uncovering. Thank you for all the thought and time you put into your replies. This stuff is challenging, but I'm up for it because I want a better future.


Love

Lifewriter

[HurtinNW]

I think you are making yourself responsible for his behavior, by assuming it is your job to accept it. Why? What prize will you get if you have a relationship with someone who denies personal responsibility for abuse? What is going inside you that makes you feel that is what you are worth?... .

I agree with jhkbuzz, this is about you. I hope I am not sounding too direct, but he has made himself clear about who he is, and you are looking for ways to excuse his behavior. In a sense you are not honoring who he is, either. You are creating your own narrative to explain and justify his abuse. That's coming from someplace in you, and understanding why Lifewriter is doing this would be good for you. After all, you can bet he is not reading books in how to understand spectrum disorders and turning himself inside out trying to be the right partner for you. What is inside Lifewriter that makes her want this contact? What is going on inside you that we can help you with, in support?

Sending huge HUGS   

You are so right that he isn't reading books on how to understand spectrum disorders or turning himself inside out trying to be the right partner for me. I offered him a book about AS to read once. He wouldn't take it even though he claimed he was an avid book reader. It made me think he really just didn't care about me.  :'(

I'm sure you're right about the rest too, but that pain is so much deeper. It's going to take a bit of uncovering. Thank you for all the thought and time you put into your replies. This stuff is challenging, but I'm up for it because I want a better future.


Love

Lifewriter

I know. I gave my ex articles on PTSD and abuse. Never read them. I'm sure he forgot them by now. I also gave him a book on step-parenting that took him four years to read, and even then he cherry-picked evidence to back his own point of view.

What is your pain here? Is it feeling you didn't matter, and wanting to fight for it?

[Lifewriter16]

Do you think the book you're reading might be making you feel worse, could it be making you doubt your decisions or the way you handled things?

Yes it is making me feel worse and it is making me regret the way I handled things. However, this book is significant because my BPDxbf bought it for me. Every recycle I had been telling him that in spite of my feelings for him I keep messing up the relationship because I just don't have the necessary skills. I wanted him to acknowledge that his behaviour presents challenges. Giving me this book was the nearest he ever got to acknowledging that I was struggling with his behaviours. Usually it was more about how my behaviours challenged him.

The irony is that a few days before I ended the relationship, he had thanked me for standing by him and then I ended it. He said he didn't really understand why. I told him my general reasons for ending it and the actual trigger. I know I hurt him. And I know it came at a bad time for him because his daughter is very likely going to be taken into care. I think that by reading the book I am somehow doing penance for failing him and partly still in denial that it's over, still hoping beyond hope that there is a way forward. Clearly I am punishing myself and I need to consider where that behaviour originated.

LW x

[Lifewriter16]

LW--my sense of your own ambivalent feelings about the abuse question is that you have made a leap from current verbal dynamics and your sense of his past, and sometimes wonder if you risk physical violence by continuing to be close to him. But he has not been physically abusive with you. And so that assumption or prediction or fear sometimes feels unfair to you, and you doubt your own reactions because that leap may not be warranted.

I think to the extent that you explain your misgivings about this r/ship in terms of your risk of physical violence, you will always have some doubts about whether your decision was/is warranted. Because it was/is a leap on your part to assume he would use violence with you.

I suspect you have resorted to that label and category because it yields more black and white conclusions about what you should do, than if you focus on what he actually did do, and the dynamic btwn you, which is more confusing and complex.

If you can stick with what actually did happen btwn you two and reach appropriate conclusions from that, which could absolutely be the same as the conclusions you reached about his risk of engaging in physical violence, I think you will feel on more solid ground about the path you are choosing.

Abusive dynamics are abusive dynamics whether or not physical abuse is involved. I lived through both in my marriage (not to the BPD man about whom I post here) and the emotional abuse and abandonment and torture was the more damaging. So I am not suggesting, just because your physical violence fears are speculative, that there is not abuse making the course you are taking relevant. Just that stepping away from the assumption that he would have eventually physical hurt you may allow more light on what WAS in fact going on. With less ambivalence and second guessing on your part.

This is my issue, patientandclear, but not with regard to my decision to end the relationship. My issue is that I do not feel justified in calling my experience 'domestic abuse' and thus I do not feel justified in joining a group for abuse survivors.

Declaring I have been subjected to domestic violence seems like an overreaction. I feel like I am making too much of it. I can't see my experience as bad enough to warrant that course of action even though I think it will help me because all it amounts to is multiple rages, calling me names and making threats to leave me. I feel like I am betraying him, yet I said I loved him. What kind of person betrays someone they love? I wonder if I have got all this out of perspective.


Yet, I am frightened of what he might be capable of doing. Other people say that abuse gets progressively more serious over time. Another member on this site was having very similar experiences to me and then, almost but not quite out of the blue, her partner dysregulated and tried to choke her. I don't want that to be me.

I know my BPDxbf threatened his wife and one of her children with a knife. I don't want to live with the fear of that happening to me. I asked him if we could talk about it thinking it might help me to judge what the risk was, but he broke up with me. How can I trust him to control himself when he is most stressed, when I can't trust him to stop himself from swearing at me and calling me names? It seems that he has no control over himself, either that or he chooses to allow himself to behave badly in full knowledge of the hurt it causes me.

The relationship has to end because his current behaviour is unacceptable to me and the risks are too high. I would re-consider if he demonstrated that he had made effective changes to his current behaviour. That would probably be a mistake - that's why I need to domestic violence support group. I need bringing to my senses before I do something reckless. I don't want to end up a statistic.

Love

Lifewriter