Hi Donna Marie
I have read your post a couple of times and have been mulling it over. You really have been thrown into the 'BPD experience' deep end and it is important how this moves from here. Your experience highlights lots of aspects of BPD especially the wa.
y it became all about Joe when you took your gs to a safe place.

First of all I hope you are able to get information on BPD here that is helpful to your situation. Also reading others' experience can help you identify how BPD 'looks' in day to day life and how this lines up with how Joe acts. You will see that manipulation, control, mood swings, anger, are common.

The main thing at the moment is that - in my opinion - Joe will be trying to isolate your dd. Unfortunately an event like taking gs to a safe place can be the perfect catalyst for someone with BPD to manipulate. We walk a tightrope unfortunately as we respond to the chaos of BPD

I am wondering if there are other family members that dd is in touch with? I think it was good that dd said she thought she had made a big mistake. It is also helpful that Joe is on the police radar re the road rage. It could also be helpful in the long term that you have witnessed at close hand Joe's behaviour. Did you tell your gs's dad why you were taking him to stay with him for the night?

How often does gs stay with his father? Also how far do they live from you?

Sorry about all the questions. I think it is important to just pause, look at all the factors involved - now that you have an idea of BPD - and find a path to carefully move forward.

At this point in time I think - not sure - I would try to have some sort of light contact with dd. Is that a possibility or has dd told you not to have any contact?

Since most people with Borderline traits don't seem to get diagnosed - or we never learn of a diagnosis - this is a sensitive topic to discuss with others.  Often we are recommended not to wave around a diagnostic term since it can be perceived as a type of attack, especially by the pwBPD.

Another consideration is age.  Many here have minor children and are tempted to blurt out their conclusions, but that can cause problems.  Some of the children could have been reared to side with and 'protect' their disordered parent from any criticism.  Not healthy, but it happens all too often.  And not that you're criticizing, you're only explaining, but such explanations can get scrambled and misconstrued.

Since your children are grown, they ought to have a right to be aware of what you've learned.  Best to be a bit cautious.  If you have one child you observe is more accepting of mental health concepts and the topic lends itself to discussion, you might share the resources that were helpful to you.  Stop Walking on Eggshells is good, so are some of William Eddy's books, especially the ones on counter-intuitive but better communication skills.

While a book and articles may name a particular acting-out personality disorder or mental illness, best that you keep it in general terms, no diagnostic names.  You want to avoid overreactions, especially if your spouse gets wind of it.  After all, you're not a trained professional in that field.

I don't mean to split the kids, but I suspect they share information amongst themselves and the others may initially accept more from their siblings than directly from you?  Just a guess, you know your children better than we do.

Hi all,

I'm happy to have found this site. A bit of background on me, I am in my late 30s, have two sisters (one twin) and an undiagnosed (not officially) but textbook narcissistic mother. Older sister has had an official BPD diagnosis for awhile, and recently an autism diagnosis from her therapist. Older sister is textbook BPD, on the extreme end (also an alcoholic).

I've been worried I had BPD because I definitely get abandonment triggers, primarily around my twin. My theory is that since our mom always doted on our older sister and would say "y'all have each other" about me and my twin, my theory is that we raised ourselves and it was just the two of us, so when I have the threat of her abandoning me, my sirens go off and I feel like it's the end of the world. I would sometimes get really emotional and lash out at her, I can recognize it now and stop it. I can also be really sensitive and take things personally. My mom is like that and I get freaked out I learned from her. But I would be ashamed and scared I had BPD since my sister has it and my mom's a narcissist. I brought it up to both my sisters and two different therapists. My sisters seemed receptive to the idea but my therapists both said I don't meet the criteria. One of them even said the fact that I'm considering I have it means I'm less likely to have it, she said usually people who have it are in denial and can't sit with it. Which actually checks out by how my twin reacted to potentially having it.

Fast forward to my relationship with my twin. For many years, our relationship has been horribly rocky. Our dynamic is that she treats me like and calls me a "bully" and says I'm "abusive" and her reasoning will be the most benign offhanded comment I made that meant nothing to me. She explodes with rage on me often, and has even punched me repeatedly while I've been trapped in a car with her. To this day, she blames that on me and says "you shouldn't have poked the bear."

In her narrative and reality, I'm out to get her and I pick on her relentlessly. In my reality, I don't know what she's talking about and find her to be very up her own ass thinking I think that hard about her. The stuff she's had breakdowns about include me telling her her shirt was wrinkled and offering her my steamer, me saying the beans we both just cooked together need more salt, me telling her she had hair that looked like this band that had goofy hair, me joking that her handwriting looks like a serial killer's. To me, those are all harmless and the last two are just me kidding. But unfortunately, she is a very insecure person with paper skin thin, and all of these resulted in explosions.

Last year, I was going to visit her and was very excited. Our relationship had been going well and I wanted to meet her new cat. In our conversation about all the fun things we'd do, her suspicion she had autism came up and an old situation with a roommate we had in 2010 came up. She EXPLODED with rage on me on the phone because I was saying we could have been a bit more friendly and welcoming to this roommate. She said I wasn't accepting of her antisocial personality and she's probably autistic, and I don't accept her. I was blown away how she could twist my words. I said "I couldn't care less if you're antisocial, I was talking about when you wanted to hang out just the two of us without her, I'm sure that was hurtful". It was from a situation 14 years ago, I haven't thought twice about that situation since I left it. I was blown away she had such charged emotion for something from that long ago and also, that she would explode that much on me, and also risk ruining my trip. I was so taken aback, and although I am used to being exploded on, now at my older age my gut says "you cannot tolerate being treated like this anymore". So, I cancelled my trip - it was very, very sad. Then I thought a lot about how the past 6+ years I've been treated like a monster and mischaracterized by the person who should know be better than anyone in the world.

She says I lack empathy and even for a while was hellbent on saying I was a narcissist (which really hurt, considering our mom is and I don't relate to her at all). She always acts like I'm in the doghouse with her and on thin ice. For awhile she said I wasn't invited to her home because I'm too "critical". I didn't know wtf she was talking about. I love her home and have only said good things about it as far as I can remember. I would have no reason to criticize it. It was bizarre, like maybe some transference from her feelings towards our mother, who's super critical. In a good period between us, she has since said I could visit again, but that put a bad taste in my mouth.

She didn't speak to me on the phone for a year because I was supposedly in the dog house with her for being such a "bully". She would claim the phone wasn't "safe". So, it was email only and a lot of tone would be lost with only using text. I would say we should Facetime and see each other's faces, so we can look each other in the eyes. She would say it's not safe and insist she could only email. I always thought a Facetime would have helped us big time with the constant misunderstandings and not hearing the tone from the other/humanizing one another. But we had to do email only, and of course more arguments would ensue.

Meanwhile, I was working in my own therapy on realizing how much she's damaged my sense of self and self-esteem by not seeing me nor any good in me, only constantly twisting my intent to paint me as some monster, despite being my closest confidant and twin. My therapist had to teach me my experiences were just as valid. Just because she was more offended did not mean she was "right". That was definitely our dynamic the last few years. I couldn't understand why we could view the same situation so differently, how I thought nothing of them and she would explode with rage and emotion. I had a Eureka moment, because I had just been dealing with that with my other sister (who has diagnosed BPD). I realized I think my twin has BPD and her brain distorts how she views things and she truly thinks I am out to get her. It started to all make sense and the puzzle pieces fit in place. I started reading more about it and researching more and feeling relieved I found the answer.

The problem was, I thought I could rationally discuss this with my sister. Since I've brought it up and tried to calmly explain why I think we should consider she has it, she's exploded on me and told me I'm a sicko just looking to deflect from my own evilness and BPD, and I'm trying to bring her down. I keep saying it's not about trying to hurt her at all, but to help our relationship, because maybe her brain is making her take everything personally and twist things, and DBT can help.

When I call her out on her rage, she gets even more rageful and says it's my fault she is so angry. Because of my "abuse". It feels like I can't call her out on any of her bad behavior, since I'm her scapegoat. I've said over and over, "why can we talk about the possibility of ME having it, but not you? We're identical twins." She's insistent she doesn't, like it's a fear of hers. I said, "aren't you the one who told ME it wouldn't be my fault?" To me, the lady doth protest too much. The fact she can't even calmly CONSIDER it tells me it gives her much shame. She's been acting extremely immature, saying "you need a better therapist" and "I feel sorry for you. You truly scare me" as if I'm insane for even suggesting it. I know armchair diagnosing is unhelpful and frowned upon. I just was truly excited to think I had found the answer of why we can never see eye to eye.

She has been insisting her therapist says she doesn't have it. But I was thinking, her therapist only hears her version of things and her side. So how does any therapist truly know? I've asked her to get therapy with me and she said "we're not a married couple". I do not think we can move forward unless we have a third party mediating, because it's her word vs mine and we truly live in very different realities and perspectives. Her overarching complaint is that I'm an asshole and I feel like I am just a normal person that sometimes is blunt and it triggers one of her many insecurities so she explodes on me. Having my own twin paint me as a deviant person with intentions to hurt has really had an affect on me, since I feel I am a kind and loving person. It's making me feel crazy. Has anyone experienced something similar? Thanks for reading if you made it all the way through.

What has astounded me is how the general populace is woefully ignorant of how to identify and deal with mental health issues and their impact on our lives.  I sure wasn't clued in on what had been happening in my own marriage.  I was totally clueless on how to deal with what I'd never expected to experience in my life.

Another resource are the books by William Eddy, a mediator, lawyer, lecturer, author, etc.  They're available everywhere including at his website (HighConflictInstitute.com).  They deal with better communication skills, how to recognize and deal with people who have traits of acting-out mental illness, how to protect yourself in a high conflict divorce.  Many of his books are discussed on our Books board.

Hey All,

I wanted to start a new thread for a specific scenario that is causing me fits. As per my first thread; I am working on understanding 'validation' and using it to reduce the impact/severity of conflict in my relationship with my uBPDw...

We have this horrible dynamic right now where there are two triggers that are constantly setting my wife off: a daily walk and a local eatery.

If you don't want the full story: TL;DR - How do you all deal with known triggers in your relationships?

I will describe the walk situation first and maybe forego the eatery thing for now, since this'll be long

the walk:

• We should walk every day, it's good for us as we age. No issue here.
• Our route (which cannot be changed) takes us right by two houses where she finds the women that live there triggering, as well as (God forbid we ever cross paths here) the swimming pool that one of them goes to regularly
• On any random walk if one of these women is present, drives by, their car is parked in the driveway, etc; she will immediately focus her attention on me and very likely project something about my bearing/behavior/pace/breathing in the current situation as being 'about' this woman's presence or potential presence.
• She typically will immediately make some kind of accusation to this effect which I blow off, because I know if this continues it'll quickly turn into a spectacle.
• She does not like to throw a fit in public, so usually there is some quiet bickering and she either mentally files this and after I have somehow crossed some threshold in her mind it will later be regurgitated in a rage blow along with a littany of other supposed "you want other women" transgressions, or we get home and she cannot help but pressing on it further and a guaranteed day-ruining argument ensues.
• Our daily walk for exercise has now become a game of emotional "Russian Roulette" for me. Ironically, she often uses my lack of enthusiasm for our walk as fodder for the "we're too different!" part of her divorce threats.

The accusation is always something completely ludicrous like:

• You stepped funny (she calls it popping, like a chnage in gait) when you saw her car because you were excited you might see her
• I saw you looking at the pool, hoping you'd see her
• You picked up the pace near her house; so you could rush over and see if she was home
• You looked down when we walked by her house so that she will think we are having problems in our marriage and I am available

I have no idea how to use validation or defuse this dynamic. She absolutely insists on doing this walk every day and doing it as a couple and she gets triggered to hyper-vigilance at least three times every single time (their houses, the pool). 

It blows my mind that she cannot be self-aware enough to realize she has some part in what is going on. Although, at this point I would say I actually do behave oddly sometimes now when we cross paths with these folks because I know I am going to get yelled at if we see them. I am literally scared of these two women at this point.

Of course JADE does not work... Any kind of rational argument from me as usual gets turned into me "lying" or proof that we should not be together because cannot take a simple walk together.

Anyway, I am at a loss. I have tried to tell her that I understand that she believes what she sees and if it were true it would be hurtful. I understand that her feelings are real and I am sorry that they are not good. But she needs to understand that she is the one interpreting my actions and believing something contrary to other, less hurtful possibilities.

If I try to address any of this when she is calm or we are not on a walk it has not been successful. She will go from completely calm to on the verge of rage when one of these two ladies names gets mentioned... If the topic continues for more than a minute or two something I say will be construed as confirmation I am somehow reaching out to these people non-verbally (ironically, I have never spoken to either of this people directly) and gets added to the "My husband wants someone else" pile.

On some level, I understand that I cannot shield her from being triggered. But I wish there was some way I could defuse this... this whole thing has contributed heavily to her divorce threats and frequency of episodes, it feels like there is no way out, other than moving which would be an insane response.

Re: Stop Walking on Eggshells

I recently read it and I am glad because like you, it led me here. It was useful for understanding the lay of the land and realizing that I needed to stop buying into the blame I have gotten during rage black outs from my uBPDw.

I felt like there was not a ton of actionable stuff in it to deal with a lot of my immediate problems, though.

Maybe I need to go back through it now that I have digested some more concepts here...

FWIW, you are NOT alone, though. That is one of my fave things about this place. Like you, I felt just absolutely devastated and alone on this journey when I came here.

Thank you! @kells76

As odd as it sounds, you could contact a DBT treatment center, describe your situation, and see if they would work with you (the non-BPD). DBT trained therapists would likely have a lot of experience with BPD relationships.

It can also help to go on the psychologytoday.com "therapist finder" for your location and use the filters "BPD" and/or "DBT". Again, even though the therapists may be trained to work with a pwBPD, they would also be able to work with non-pwBPD. It's not like their training is limited to PD's and would damage others; in fact, DBT can be helpful for anyone wanting to build better emotional management skills.

You could also consider asking your current therapist(s) for recommendations. T's will know that they can't help everyone and can't specialize in everything, and hopefully would be willing (and have the network and connections) to direct you to someone more specialized.

Is there a counseling service or person specifically trained in dealing with bpd relationships?

Thanks

Mark

I am learning more and more about BPD and its effect on family. After considerable therapy for myself and udBPDw, I am in a quandary. My wife has not been formally diagnosed with BPD but the therapist who I was working with suggested "Stop walking on Eggshells." She said a colleague recommended it. She was quick to point out that she cannot diagnose my wife as she has never seen her. However, she collaborated with my wife's therapist during our sessions. We have 3 grown daughters (married with children) who have been on the receiving end all of their lives. I am the only one that has been the target of rages. Family and friends are unaware of what goes on, however I sometimes get the question of "what's wrong with mom" or what's wrong with your wife. I have divulged nothing with regards to BPD or therapy to anyone. I have been cautioned by a therapist that discussing my wife's BPD with our children would be detrimental. My heart aches at times and I want to tell them about BPD so that they have some understanding of their mom and why she does what she does.

My question: Should I broach the subject with my daughters or leave it be?