Question

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My judgement is so off anymore, I feel like I need to ask this question... .   I called my attorney yesterday morning and left a message with his secretary, letting her know that my stbxuBPDw had been very aggressive the night before and needed to speak with my attorney regarding my options.  I never heard back.  Left a vm for him last night after hours being a little more specific and asking that he call me back.  Still haven't heard from him.  Am I being annoying?  I simply want to get his opinion on whether or not I should file a RO or move out and let the house go... . I simply can't take living with this woman much longer.  He's one of those dudes who seems like he's constantly annoyed with you when you deal with him, but then again having a prick on your side in court isn't necessarily a bad thing.  I don't want to be overbearing and annoy the crap out of my attorney, but at the same time, when I'm paying you a good chunk of money (at least it's a good chunk in my world) I would expect a phone call to be returned within at least a 24 hour period of time and some decent advice.  Or am I asking too much? 

Like I said, 3 years ago I probably wouldn't have asked a question like this, but my perceptions are so off the chart and I just don't trust myself any longer. 

[ts919]

My judgement is so off anymore, I feel like I need to ask this question... .   I called my attorney yesterday morning and left a message with his secretary, letting her know that my stbxuBPDw had been very aggressive the night before and needed to speak with my attorney regarding my options.  I never heard back.  Left a vm for him last night after hours being a little more specific and asking that he call me back.  Still haven't heard from him.  Am I being annoying?  I simply want to get his opinion on whether or not I should file a RO or move out and let the house go... . I simply can't take living with this woman much longer.  He's one of those dudes who seems like he's constantly annoyed with you when you deal with him, but then again having a prick on your side in court isn't necessarily a bad thing.  I don't want to be overbearing and annoy the crap out of my attorney, but at the same time, when I'm paying you a good chunk of money (at least it's a good chunk in my world) I would expect a phone call to be returned within at least a 24 hour period of time and some decent advice.  Or am I asking too much? 

Like I said, 3 years ago I probably wouldn't have asked a question like this, but my perceptions are so off the chart and I just don't trust myself any longer. 

[ForeverDad]

Can you contact your local police station and make a report - of course without informing your spouse?  That can build your documentation of the incident.  In addition, if the police deem it an actionable event they may want to pursue court action on your behalf.

In my case, a Buckeye state, an officer listened to my ex's repeated death threats, as recorded before, during and after my call to 911.  The officer told me to file a report, took a copy of my recording as documentation, and warned me not to drop the case as so many do or else it would get even worse.  She was arrested, that was our trigger for Separation and the TPO gave me sole possession of the home until the case was resolved.  Yes, she refused to make a plea deal and was eventually found not guilty a few months later - case law states "threat of DV" must be considered as "imminent threat of DV".  Our judge stated that words alone don't constitute an imminent threat, likening it to a drunk husband coming home and telling his wife, "If I had a gun I'd shoot you."  Even so, my ex never tried to move back in.  In the divorce she eventually did get some equity, but she never came back except with police for her to get her things.

In the end, abuse is abuse, no dancing around that.  If the police want to take action, then the police report and the officer's subsequent actions probably have far better credibility in court than going to court and filing papers yourself.  However, if they only want to go talk to her, know in advance that they can't reason with her either, she would most likely claim she was the target/victim, that could "forewarn" her and she could become motivated to wage a DV war against you and start making allegations that you are the abusive one.

[FamilyLaw]

Here are some basic tips for dealing with your lawyer, but your mileage may vary:

1.  Find out from his assistant what his preferred way of contact is.  Some prefer a call, some an email, some for you to set up a telephonic appointment, some to tell the assistant and let him/her get back to you.  If you find out the way the lawyer prefers, you'll save valuable time and money.  Personally, I hate voicemail and tell all my clients to either email me or talk to my assistant and set up a telephonic appointment. (Email saves money -- it takes less time for your lawyer to read than to listen to you explain, and usually it can be answered quickly.)

2.  Don't assume your lawyer is in the office all day.  I spend about half my day in court, and if I'm in trial then all day.  Sometimes it takes me more than a day to catch up after I've been in court for an extended period of time.  Sometimes other clients have emergencies that have priority.

3.  Oftentimes attorneys will triage issues.  Some issues resolve themselves.  I sometimes purposefully wait 24 hours to see if an issue resolves itself.  Family law clients are on heightened alert and everything seems like an emergency -- but it might not really be.  Think of your lawyer as you would a doctor.  While your sinus infection is really bothering you right now, the patient with the gunshot wound gets priority.

[bravhart1]

In the years we've been dealing with this it has been my experience that "yes" attorneys are sometimes nonresponsive. That definitely makes things harder, and gives you no comfort imagining "what if" in a real emergency. So sometimes that's how it goes.

Having said that, your comment about having a tough attorney was what caught my interest.

We had a REALLY tough attorney at first and felt like we got no where. Especially with the judge and mediator.

One day in court we saw a competent enough guy arguing a case. What really struck me about him though was that EVERYONE (the judge, bailiff, other attorney's) seemed to really like this guy. He was "the good guy". Fair, reasonable, and liked. While it became clear our attorney was not well liked at all.

We switched to this guy. It has made a world of difference. Judges listen, respect him, think we are good too. He has changed the whole dynamic of the court process for us. I have seen him get thing from the Judge and mediators that no one else gets.

Well respected wins the race, the courtroom bully is seen as a bully by everyone. Including the Judge.

We switched

[Waddams]

Another thing to remember is that our cases are very much emotional for us.  We know our cases and issues better than anyone else, including our L's.  Our cases are also hot button issues in our psyche's.  However, for a L, it's a job.  They don't have the same emotional investment, and they act accordingly, and overall this is probably mostly a good thing.

A good L that has a lot of experience has seen and heard just about everything at some point.  They know what is really important for your case from a legal standpoint, and what isn't.  They also know where the line is drawn between the legal issues of your case and the emotions/drama we deal with from our ex-'s.  Sometimes there just isn't much they can do legally about certain drama's the ex's start. 

All that said, when it comes to DV/abuse in our cases, we do have a right to try to get away from it.  As for moving out, that decision is up to you.  Also think and maybe even consult a therapist, or some other personal that has helped people through these situations and has experience, and see if there is a way to set up better boundaries while you are still in the same home with her so you can protect yourself from her and stay out of the drama and abuse.  She might be living there, but for example, you don't have to eat there with her.  You don't have to do squat there.  So pickup a minifridge to keep some things in, get a padlock on your bedroom door, and separate yourself.  My local kroger has great deals on deli dinners.  $5 a plate, and it's enough for me to eat two meals from.  And they vary their selection each day.  It's great.

So are there ways you can set boundaries to avoid her for example in the kitchen?

We had a separate finished basement, so when we were living under one roof but had filed, I stayed in the basement.  Had my clothes, etc. in there, it had it's own bathroom, it had everything I needed to stay separate.  The door even locked from the inside so I could lock her out.  There was separate entry/exit from the house too.  I could totally avoid her.

Laundry - go to a laundromat. 

Yes, it's a pain when you have your own house, but it's better than dealing with the aggression from a BPD during a D.  And it's temporary.  At some point, she WILL be gone and you'll have a peaceful home that's all yours.

Weekends - groupon/travelocity/etc. - bug out.  Find cheap deals and take them.  Take your son with you on your weekends.  I joined a bunch of clubs on meetup.com and ended up going on camping trips, and all kinds of very cheap weekenders to get away and made all kinds of new friends while I was at it.

As for her car, make the house payments, your car payment, and things you need just for you first.  If you can't do her car, then don't.  Forget your credit rating right now.  You're divorcing and trying to salvage a better lifestyel, but it's a long term goal.  The fact is BPD's are destructive, and you're not going to get out of this without taking some hits.  You gotta accept it because it's gonna happen whether you accept or not.  If she doesn't want to pay for her car, then let her not pay for it.  If she works, then doubly so let her deal with her car.  And let her take care of her own food.  You're divorcing, nothing wrong with going ahead and becoming free of her if she has her own income.  And even if she doesn't, nothing wrong with starting to cut the cord where you can anyway.  And nothing wrong with telling a judge you can't afford it all and showing your expenses vs. income to prove it.

So if you have to move out, then do it, but get an agreement in place first that protects your interests in the marital property.  But there are probably ways for you to build new boundaries while she's still in the house.

As for the RO, don't expect too much from your L on that front.  Go talk to the cops, and find out what kind of evidence you would need to get the RO.  If it's recordings, etc.  then go get the gear needed, and always be recording.  state name/full date/time at the beginning of each recording for authentication of date of occurence.  make sure to record the beginning, middle and end of an incident so full context can be heard.  Also, NEVER EVER call the cops in the middle of a episode with her.  she'll find a way to turn into a poor, abused woman and try to turn the cops on you.  only involve the cops once you are out of the situation and safe.  Like the next day or something.  Take the recording and go to the court for an ex parte RO, or to the cops and play it for them later.  Get a police reprot, maybe they'll go arrest her for battery, maybe not, but get the report.  Make sure that before the authorities talk to her, you have already played/shown your documentation, that way they know ahead of time the full truth and will be less likely to fall for her manipulations.

it's okay to find a way out of the house, and if nothing else, head for a hotel for the night.  That's not abandoning your marital interests.  I know of one state that has a law that you have to be gone 60 days before you can be declared to have abandoned anything.  Most states I would think have something similar.  And you can claim "vacation time", etc. to show you're gone at the moment, but haven't abandoned.  States that don't have any laws with time limits specified probably have some kind of case law precedent in any case.  if things get really bad in any particular moment, leave.  don't stay.  just get out.  i kept an escape kit in the trunk of my car.  fresh set of work clothes, a set of casual clothes, a few hundred dollars in cash (could also do a generic gift card with emergency funds on it, easier to hide), toiletries, etc.  I also kept my keys, wallet and phone on my person at all times.  if you have important papers at the house, collect them and keep them somewhere else so you know they are secure and safe.  and that's whether you have to bug out or not. my fiance is dealing with not being able to escape with important docs right now and is on year 3 of legal fights over it now.  it's just too easy to grab the stuff and get it out when she's not looking for safe storage somewhere else.  maybe at work, or a bank deposit box, etc. 

Anyway, i know it's frustrating and you're at wit's end.  I've been there too.  There probably are things you can do to establish some boundaries and some peace for yourself.  it's hard to see it when your in the middle of the situation, though.  But give it a shot.  Once you start figuring out things that work , you'll start feeling stronger again.