You shouldn't be going on holidays You are just waiting for me to die

[Methuen]

We are leaving on holidays in one week.  We will be gone for 3 weeks.  We go into the wilderness in remote Parks to enjoy camping and kayaking.  There is no cell service.  The journey is 4000km.  It is peaceful, beautiful, and restorative.  We have done this for a few summers now.

Several weeks ago, my H (who took over taking her to appointments and doing groceries when I no longer had the energy or emotional capacity to do this for her) reminded her we were going away, and asked her what her plan was, since we weren't going to be here if she needed something.  They discussed options.  He has brought it up with her several times since.  She has been avoidant.  Last night, our son was home visiting (he lives 6 hours away),  and so we hosted a family dinner with the rest of our family and my mother.  My H asked her about her plan.  She didn't have one.  So he proposed a 5 minute wellness check once a day by home health care while we were away.  Words can't articulate the chaos that ensued.  This morning I asked my H to articulate her behavior.  He said she is in complete denial of her inability to care for herself.  She is toxically obstinate.  She is insecure.  She is irrational. She is unable to consider anybody elses needs. She is now treating my H like a slave. (Me: I think he's beginning to understand on a new level what I have always experienced with her).

Last night at the dinner, I took a new approach.  She always says she wishes she could do something for us.  Total B.S.  Anyways, last night I said: "You know how you like to say you wish you could do something for us?  In a genuinely caring voice I said, "you could say "yes" to these wellness checks, so that we could go enjoy our holiday knowing that you are safe and looked after, should you need anything. Then we know you are ok"  Her reply:  "Let me turn that on you".  I put up my hand and left the room.  S28 (golden child) took over.  He said, "Grandma, I can't believe that you have made something that should take less than 5 min, so difficult".  His head in his hands "Grandma, I am really disappointed".   My H took another approach: "_____, I spend 4-8 hours every week helping you, and this is something you could do for me.  You could say yes to a daily 5 min wellness check so that  we can enjoy our holiday knowing that a health care person is checking on you each day to make sure that you are ok."  D26: the smart one, stays silent.  She has been traumatized enough including by her grandma that she says nothing.  D26SO: grandma this is something nice you could do for your family. S28 Golden Child: "Grandma, will you do this for me?"

In the end and after GC frustration, she agreed.  So H confirmed the arrangement with Home Health Care via email last night. This morning she texted she had found someone else and didn't need home health care.  H phoned her back, to say that was fine, but if something happened (she's recently had a cascade of health issues including trips to emerg) and she needed help, she was going to have to contact home health care and arrange it herself.  She says she can't do this because her Parkinson's is so bad it affects her speech, and she can't get her words out.  Suffice it to say she didn't like being told she would have to arrange help herself, and she got nasty and in an emotionally distraught voice shouted "you shouldn't be going on holidays and leaving me here!  You are all just waiting for me to die!" At which point I jumped on the phone and said "STOP", and had plenty to say including we were asking for her to accept a wellness check daily BECAUSE WE CARE AND LOVE HER.  H (a rational and composed person 99.99% of the time) jumped in and said for 49 weeks of the year he looks after her, and he   deserves a holiday with his wife and son.  A few moments later, she hung up.  I recorded the whole thing on my phone, because I could predict a bad outcome before the call started, and I know I need to protect myself and us.

A few days ago, she woke up the household at 2am saying "I have a bladder infection.  Should I go to emerg.?"  Eight hours earlier, she had her grandson at her house at the end of his work day (he's working remotely while at home) because she wanted him to make cookies at her house.  Just her and him.  She was perfectly fine for that, and he reported she had no complaints.   On the phone at 2am, my H replied "What do you think?"  Her: "There probably won't be anyone to see me in emerg at 2am."  H: "Right.  So what should you do?"  Her: " I could call my doctor in the morning."  H: "Right.  You do that".  Before the self-diagnosed bladder infection (I even doubt she really has one), she had us take her to emerg late at night because she couldn't see after her macular degeneration shots (which H takes her for).  Miraculously, after waiting in emerg 2 hours with over 10 people still in front of her, her vision improved and she asked to go home.  Before that, it was pain in her hip going down her leg and asked her doc for more pain killers.  Before that it was needing to increase her levodopa (Parkinson's drug).  Before that it was an angina attack.  Before that it was something else.  It just never ends.  She can't see. She can't hear.  She can't talk.  She can't walk.  She doesn't cook.  She doesn't sleep.  She has pain after pain after pain.  But miraculously, at her geriatrician's appointment, she was perfect, and he commented that she was "better than he was expecting".  She passed with flying colours.  All her meds were appropriate.  Nothing out of the ordinary.

The lies, the deceit, the hidden agenda's, the manipulations, the denial, the obstinacy, the toxicity, the blame, the assaults...we are sick of it.

So after the phone call and her accusation that "everyone wants her to die", and we shouldn't be going on holidays, H wrote her an email.  He gave her the phone number of her health care case manager, and told mom to call her and tell her what she wanted or didn't want.  He also told her that after all he does for her, and holding her in his arms telling her everything would be ok during her angina attack while waiting for the ambulance", telling him he wanted her to die was just wrong, and he didn't feel good.  He also told her fixing this wasn't going to be easy, and she could think about what she needed to do.  He also said he needed some space for a while, and wouldn't be able to buy her groceries this week.  He hasn't heard back from her.

Craziness.  This is why we head into nature to be with the birds, and fish, and bears and no cell service.  They are much more pleasant. 

Any support, thoughts or advice is appreciated. 


 

[Methuen]

Now she's been texting H from full victim and pity party mode.  He's been responding with facts and boundaries. 

His last text: Call home care and tell them what you want or don't want.  I'm shutting my phone down.  This back and forth is too hard.

Then he blocked her.

[TelHill]

Hello Methuen,

So sorry this is happening.  I sure recognize the bpd mom dynamics and the unpleasantness. It's really awful.

Am glad you stuck to your boundaries and will go on your well-deserved vacation.  You've done all you can to make certain she is looked after. tbh, if she's so strong willed to keep coming at you time and time again to guilt trip you guys, she has the same strong will to get help if she needs it.

I had to laugh when she couldn't "see" after her macular degeneration treatment. My mom has macular degeneration and supposedly can't see. She pointed out a small piece of lint on my black pants a few feet away.  Her need to feel superior to me with grooming knocked out her pity party of not being able to "see."

I would offer one suggestion. The idea came from my bpd mom though I know she didn't mean it to help. I was explaining how unfair she was and repeated it out of frustration. . She said - I get it. Once is enough. I thought you're right. I know she said it to goad me more but I stopped explaining. Once was enough.  I understood what the saying you win by not playing meant.

I don't know if that helps. You don't deserve to be exhausted over childish shenanigans from bpd mom.

I hope you and your family enjoy your vacation!

[zachira]

I am sad you and your family are having to deal with being so unappreciated and disrespected by your mother. The only advice I have to offer is to have a plan to get your mother to the emergency room without you or your husband having to take her, as your mother will surely manage to have some kind of crisis that requires an emergency room visit just before you leave. I am so glad you have planned to have a well deserved three week vacation with no interruptions from your mother.

[Notwendy]

You have my support for going on your much deserved vacation. Good for you to have boundaries. Your H has been a wonderful help to your mother. Sounds like he's had all he can tolerate of this behavior.

BPD mother has done something similar to her family nearby. She did the same thing- asked her relative to take her to ER- when she already had a home health worker set up to take her. Her relatives have also reached their limit of tolerance with her. They said no. The ER didn't find anything to be concerned about.

One of her statements when she had asked to move nearer to me was that "she won't bother me much". I didn't believe this but I did wonder if she'd do better in assisted living. She was in her house at the time. Now that she's been in assisted living, I know she isn't doing better emotionally or behavior wise- even with the additional support. We didn't expect her to be different, we just hoped the situation would be better for her. It is better for her physical well being to be there. Emotionally, mentally- no, because it's not the environment but her own internal emotions.

Nobody, nothing, nowhere, will be "enough" for her and you know this with your mother as well. I think it's a good thing you are going on vacation and out of range. You and your whole family could dedicate 24/7 to your mother and to her, it wouldn't be enough. Because the problem isn't you or anything you or your H do or don't do. It's her own thinking that makes it this way.

Sending you hugs and wishes for a wonderful holiday.

[Methuen]

There is a another current thread about dissociation.  My mom has uBPD, diagnosed depression, diagnosed anxiety, and undiagnosed PTSD.  I believe she has a lot of dissociation going on.

Dissociation is a self preservation tool against toxic shame.  Yet despite all the special things we do for her and the time we put into supporting her, she accuses us of not loving her when she has some need she perceives we are not meeting.  Eg. We are going on holiday and thus won’t be available to her.  Clearly this is unforgivable.  But there is so much evidence she is loved and cared for.  Yet she dissociates and is able to accuse us of not loving her, which clearly isn’t true.  Telling us we shouldn’t be going on holidays and we only want her to die must be dissociation.  But how does it serve her when it feels abusive and my H ends up blocking her?  It pushes the people closest to her away.  She is so exasperating we need distance to protect ourselves. It all just doesn’t make sense.  Darwinism is about survival of the fittest.  BPD is known for causing toxicity that drives away the people closest to them.  If dissociation is what allows them to escape their toxic shame, why do they keep using a tool that drives away the people closest to them?

[zachira]

Methuen,
As someone who has spent most of my life dissociated until EMDR treatment, I was incapable of being present and not dissociated a lot of the time until the EMDR therapist forced me to stay present in the moment which was terribly triggering and unbearable to do alone. My EMDR therapist quit providing EMDR because how destablizing it was for so many clients, and many other therapists have done so for the same reason. Your mother cannot be any other way or change as you know, and it hurts your heart to see that there is no way for her to feel the care and love you and your family have faithfully provided. Do you know anything about your mother's childhood and family of origin dynamics that could possibly explain though not justify how your mother is treating you and your family when you reach out and try to help her?

[Notwendy]

Darwinism is about survival of the fittest.  BPD is known for causing toxicity that drives away the people closest to them.  If dissociation is what allows them to escape their toxic shame, why do they keep using a tool that drives away the people closest to them?

My father had many positive and admirable qualities, but as capable as he was in other aspects, he seemed to submit to her wishes, even if it was not in accordance with his own judgment. There was something about my mother that was irresistible to him and my father seemed to abdicate all to her. She herself had no power on her own but she had my father and all he accomplished.

Darwinism is about organisms having traits that help them to survive as a species. I think attraction- beyond physical- there's something else about her even if she was attractive in her younger years- -is my mother's survival trait and she's good at it. I think people like her have skills to attract people. Not all will continue to be in her circle but she seems to be attractive to people initially.


She's also good at manipulating people. For others, we may have done well in school, been good at our jobs- these are positive traits too.  As humans, we are diverse. We have all kinds of positive traits, maybe not all in the relationship sense but my BPD mother's abilities allow her to prevail. Someone without them might not. So I think in terms of Darwinism, there is selection for her abilities even if they cause difficulties in relationships.

[Methuen]

Methuen,
Your mother cannot be any other way or change as you know, and it hurts your heart to see that there is no way for her to feel the care and love you and your family have faithfully provided.

exactly.  Her behavior is so hopelessly irrational.  And toxically frustrating to be accused of wanting her to die, and being told we shouldn't be going on holidays, after doing so much caring and care for her.  It's just wrong.  She crossed the red line when she said these things to H.  He told her he needs a break and she should find someone else to do her grocery shopping this week.  She isn't going to reach out to us.  So we might not even see her before we go on our trip in a week.

Do you know anything about your mother's childhood and family of origin dynamics that could possibly explain though not justify how your mother is treating you and your family when you reach out and try to help her?

Yes.  Her father was a monster.  He abused his wife and all of his children physically, emotionally, sexually.  I have known this since childhood and always understood this explained my mom's issues.  To top it off, her mother died of cancer when mom was 14, and my mother was the daughter who had to stay home from school to care for her for a year before she died.  This was in about 1950.  That was the first abandonment, because while their mother couldn't protect her children from their father's rage and abuse, she at least cared about them, and did what she could to love them.  But then she died.  When my father died 18 years ago, that was the second abandonment, because he was a special person and kind and somehow figured out how to navigate a relationship with her.  I've always said that when he died, my life changed.
NotWendy (I couldn't get the quotebox to work...)

She's also good at manipulating people. For others, we may have done well in school, been good at our jobs- these are positive traits too.  As humans, we are diverse. We have all kinds of positive traits, maybe not all in the relationship sense but my BPD mother's skills allow her to prevail. Someone without them might not. So I think in terms of Darwinism, there is selection for her skills.

This makes sense.  I get your point.  But it's a poor quality of life they bring to themselves and those around them with all their chaos. I guess it's survival, but not necessarily quality.

[Notwendy]

It is a very sad situation for my mother and yours. Humans are so complex though- and Darwinism is about traits. Although BPD has a genetic component, look at those of us on this board who don't have BPD and tend to be responsible people. Maybe back in the cavemen days, our mothers were attracting the males of the species who were larger and stronger to come protect us all from predators while we were the ones taking care of the pack so both abilities contributed to survival of the group as a whole?

[Methuen]

So one of my mom's friends whom I'll call Jane, and whom she's obligated to be another caregiver just called me because mom called her and had trouble talking.  Jane was worried mom was having a stroke. We saw this at the dinner when the conversation about a wellness check from home care once a day started. When mom gets anxious, her Parkinson's symptoms including shaking and not getting her words out gets worse.   Mom treats Jane like family but Jane doesn't want to be treated like family, and has her own life and things to do.  She told mom she needed to call her family for help.  Of course mom hasn't called us because she accused us of wanting her to die, and yelled at us that if we loved her we wouldn't be going on holidays, and so H distanced himself.  So now mom is stuck because her friend-caregivers are overwhelmed, and we are going away.  

It was a constructive conversation with Jane.  Jane is a kind and caring person.  Jane has a clear picture and understanding of mom's shananigans, but was still shocked to hear that mom is claiming she doesn't need homecare because she has "friends who want to help her" and has even reported this to home care.  Jane reports being very clear with mom on what she can and can't do.  She told us she regularly tells mom she should be getting care or assisted living.  I was so relieved I started to cry in appreciation.  We told her that having strong boundaries and saying no to mom would be the best way to help mom, because it would force her to accept the daily home care wellness checks.  Jane is happy to comply.  Jane was in shock that mom had told us we shouldn't be going on holidays, and accused us of wanting her to die.  Apparently some people can see how much we do.

Mom is clearly falling apart.  I'm fully expecting it is possible for her to have a nervous breakdown 1 or days before we leave.  Then what?  We actually have an itinerary with reservations at campsites in the wilderness we are hopefully heading into.

[Methuen]

It is a very sad situation for my mother and yours. Humans are so complex though- and Darwinism is about traits. Although BPD has a genetic component, look at those of us on this board who don't have BPD and tend to be responsible people. Maybe back in the cavemen days, our mothers were attracting the males of the species who were larger and stronger to come protect us all from predators while we were the ones taking care of the pack so both abilities contributed to survival of the group as a whole?

This made me laugh.  Out loud.  But I get your point.  Thanks for the laugh.  Following this is the "ick" reflex.  It's just so intense right now.  My mother is acting out all the worst bordeline traits (except the suicide threats haven't started yet) and like a narcissist is wholly engrossed in her own victimhood and unable to see another point of view, or the distress she brings to her loved ones and friends.  She doesn't care about any of them, she only cares about herself.  From her point of view, we obviously don't love her because we would never leave her when she's feeling like this.  In fact, we are the cause of all her  bad feelings.  It's always everybody elses fault.  Everybody else is evil, and she's at the center of her own pity party.

[Notwendy]

Me too. It's hard to see- and it's happening with my mother as well. As she ages, she needs more assistance. I can understand that this is stressful for her- and stress increases the BPD behaviors. It's a tough combination. I think I see why our mothers behave so similarly while yours rejects help and mine wants a lot of it, to excess of what she can afford. I think there's an narcissistic aspect to this. Yours wants to believe that she doesn't need any help- because to need help isn't in sinc with her self image so she dismisses the people who help her.  Mine feels the same but needs to feel superior- so she degrades, controls and criticizes them. Both tactics result in them feeling abandoned and like victims.

Then there is the actual suffering- both physical and mental- that of their aging process that they make worse by their behavior. Our instincts are to care for the aged and infirm- we held the pack together in our cave days right? But we also have to protect the pack and ourselves from the BPD behavior and there's the dilemma. We don't think like someone with BPD so we have to balance protecting ourselves with our own moral codes while they don't follow the same rules. They will do and say mean things that we'd be upset with ourselves if we said  something like that back to them.

We moved my mother to assisted living in hopes that it would be a better situation for her. I know now that this was a failed attempt. She's had one "crisis" after another, been to the ER a few times, been to skilled rehab a few times. She just can't emotionally settle. The assisted living is a very nice place. They have activities, she won't do any of them. She won't even go downstairs to eat meals, she has them brought to her in her room. She's been evaluated by psychiatry. She isn't depressed. She's just being who she is.

I think your mother has burned out your H. I wouldn't blame him if he's done with her/ My mother's family are done with her and I understand why. It's a very sad situation for our mothers and us too, but I think once we've tried to help and they continue their behavior, then that is their choice unless they become legally incompetent and then, someone takes over control of their choices for them.

[zachira]

I think you are right that your mother will likely have a breakdown right before you are ready to leave on vacation. Is it possible to leave earlier than planned?

[Methuen]

I think you are right that your mother will likely have a breakdown right before you are ready to leave on vacation. Is it possible to leave earlier than planned?

Good idea but unfortunately I am in training at work every day next week, and they’re doing it next week because I will be gone the following 3 weeks.

[zachira]

What about hiring somebody to call your mother every day and see if she needs anything? You would be hiring the person so she can't say no.

[Outdorenthusiast]

Or a family friend/minister/local police or fire? Or even an enthusiastic evangelist?  (All kidding aside) - you will be able to enjoy your vacation knowing a “pet sitter” is taking care of your beloved pet.  I would recommend having something/someone with instructions rather than nothing - then let “Jesus take the wheel” knowing you have done everything you can.  You need your respite - complete with no guilt.

[PearlsBefore]

Your fifth paragraph starts to bleed into my own recent story, ambulance calls for a UTI, ambulance calls for "general non-specific leg pain", etc. It's not quite Munchausens but it's not far off - there's a fear of mortality in our case (possibly in your case) which arises from the beloved dBPD having done some objectionably terrible things in life and therefore terrified of eternal judgment and therefore terrified of stubbing her toe.

Ultimately the second half of your title (which made me smirk seeing it, after deadpanning the first half - because now I could hear the voice in my head) is just the classic BPD "You're going to leave me, everybody hates me, you're all going to abandon me" - but overlaid on a general fear of mortality.

[Notwendy]

That fear would be a part of aging and there are supports for that- faith based and secular- counseling, family and community. It seems that pwBPD would not be able to form the kind of bonds that would help with this. With my BPD mother, the people in her circle are in context of what they can do for her, not a mutual bond.

When I visit her at the assisted living, I see the residents socializing on the porch, or in the main lobby room. Some of them are in good health and active, they may just need a bit of assistance in some tasks. I stop and chat with them for a bit- and have gotten to know some of the residents- and they support each other. They have activities and social events in this assisted living.

There's a distinct difference when interacting with BPD mother. She stays in her room. She won't go to social events - but she doesn't do these things on her own anyway. She's not depressed- she's been evaluated- but this is a change for her- to go from her home to a community. While I had thought she was more social, she doesn't seem to be able to connect with others in the same way but this is her "normal".  Even as a kid, we'd go out with my father on weekends and do things but BPD mother didn't come with us.

There's a paradox - over using the emergency room - and then not being compliant with the medical care prescribed, What I have seen her do with the medical team is similar to how she interacts with her family- we try to help her but then, she resists or discounts, suggestions or advice.

So yes, as PearsBefore stated, the over use of the emergency room and family to as a way of handling feelings and fears may be a part of this as they may not be able to connect with other forms of emotional support.

[Methuen]

Late last night I got a text from mom: my pulse is 148.  Call 911 and get me an ambulance.  We drove to her house and brought her to emergency.  They immediately hooked her up to an IV.  Now backtracking to the morning:

Mom's housekeeper called me.  Mom was calling her for help.  Long story short, the housekeeper has been happy to clean mom’s house, but is tired of being directed to do other things by mom, and wants her life back. Mom has been telling home care she doesn’t need a wellness check while we are away because she has friends to help her.  I personally spoke to those friends yesterday (including the housekeeper) and it turns out they don't want to do this, and never agreed to be her caregiver.  One of them even said she doesn't want to be treated like a daughter.  Mom keeps obligating them, and they want their life back.  

Mom hired a private health care worker who gives mom her baths (mom calls her a "friend").  Mom has been telling us she gets a bath every week.  We spoke with the worker tonight, and  she told us mom very often cancels her baths.  Apparently she hasn’t had a bath in two months. She hardly sees mom, and couldn't believe it when we told her mom really likes her. Maybe not getting baths has something to do with why she got a bladder infection this past Friday?  We are passing this info on to home care.  She is still finishing the antibiotics.

When we picked mom up at the house tonight, she told me she thought she was having a stroke.  Emerg was empty, so she immediately got a bed and an IV.  She tried telling the Doc she had drank 10 cranberry juices today. They took one look at her and knew she was dehydrated.  After a lot of talk, visiting, questions by nurse and Dr, and a consult between Doc and H and I, it was determined that the reason her heart rate was up was because she stopped taking her heart pills two days ago.  She had disclosed that to us.  She decided she didn’t need them because they were too big to swallow.  This is what landed her in emergency.  Anxiety from Friday night, Saturday’s meltdown with H and being blocked by H, probably played a role too.  Her anxiety was the worst I have ever seen.

At the end of the night, the doctor prescribed home care to check in on mom every day we are gone for 3 weeks to make sure she is taking ALL her medication.

Now there is documentation she is non compliant.  This is not the first time.  It is a pattern.

The doctor told us to go on our well deserved trip and enjoy ourselves without feeling guilty.

Ironic aint it?  Her decisions and behaviour results in getting the very thing she was fighting to not have (home care).  

At the end of the night when we took her home, she was  happy with all the attention she got, she liked her nurse and doctor, and was feeling better because she was hydrated and the staff gave her the meds she hadn’t been taking which made her heart rate quickly came down.  We even got a thank you when we got her home again.  That will quickly wear off.

At the end of the night, I just couldn't believe that she got prescribed home care.  That was just too good to be true.  

I am skeptical as to how she will handle it while we are away.

[zachira]

Methuen,
So happy for you to now have the support you need for your mother so you can enjoy your vacation and also to have your experiences with your mother validated by so many people. Your mother is no longer able to fool the medical people or the people she considers to be friends. Glad you no longer have to worry about what emergency room crisis your mother will create before you go on vacation, as it has already taken place.
We never know when the disordered family members will no longer be able to fool most people into thinking they are the victims of being poorly treated by family members who have gone overboard to get along with them. I have been keeping my fingers crossed for you, and it looks like you are now in the driver's seat with your mother no longer able to manipulate the outside world. I hope while you are on vacation you and your husband will come up with some plans on how to manage your mother when you return. Perhaps you can hire someone to take over her grocery shopping. I hope you will think about how to manage the trips to the emergency room without you or your husband having to go along, as your mother uses the emergency room visits to spend time with you. Perhaps you can just call an ambulance when your mother says she needs to go to the emergency room and keep in contact with the emergency room by phone. It does seem you are now in the position to refuse to take her home, and the medical staff now has the documentation to refuse to let your mother go home without home health care or to make her go into a rehabilitation facility. There are several rehabilitation facilities in my community, which usually have an opening for new patients, and many seniors stay there until the end of their life.
Enjoy your well deserved vacation!

[TelHill]

Am glad you're able to go on vacation with someone mandated to look in on mom daily.  

Enjoy yourself.  This park sounds like a wonderful place.

P.S. I was worried when I left my caregiver role to my dBPD mom. My brother took over. I knew it wasn't ideal. Nothing different happened. She knew how to manipulate him as she did me. Crazy antics are mandatory. I can count on it with my mother.

Her needs were met.  Whatever health issues happen would happen with or without me. She's still around as healthy as ever.   

[Notwendy]

That's great news that someone will check on your mother while you are away. Enjoy your holidays!

[So Stressed]

Methuen, I can relate to everything that you said.  I had the same reaction most years when I went on vacation, and of course, it got worse over the years as Mom aged.  In the beginning years, I just went anyway and didn't have to worry about her health and safety, but then in the last 3 years, she needed support.  I tried to arrange care before going away ... home health care, wellness checks, and shopping assistance. However, Mom fired them and/or refused to use them. She told me she wouldn't have them because that would make me feel better, and she wasn't going to give me that. I called every day to check in on her and had so much insurance so I could get home if I needed to.

There were accusations about how I didn't care for her, and she had done everything for me, and now that she needed me, I was not there for her, etc.  There were usually ambulance calls in the days leading up to the vacation to try to stop me from going ... I nodded when I read about your 2 a.m. call about the UTI, and what should she do. I have spent so many nights in ER with her when it turned out to be nothing, or else something that would have waited for an appointment at the dr.'s office.

So, I went on the vacation at the encouragement of my therapist. Every time I called Mom, she was crying, sobbing, emotional, accusing me of leaving her.  It was pretty hard to have a good time, but I stood my ground and had the vacation.  Mom wouldn't use any of the services that I arranged. Instead, she relied on neighbors. She appealed to them for help because she had been abandoned by her daughter.  I was annoyed that one couple stepped in and started doing everything for her ... they bought into her story about her bad daughter who left her on her own. I think if they had not started doing everything for her, she would have had to use the services that I arranged and then we would have had more help when I was here, too, because we did need extra help. I work full time and am also a senior.

To make a long story short ... this happened 2 years in a row, and Mom told everyone she knew about what a bad daughter I am leaving her with no help.  Then, she also convinced my sibling (who doesn't live nearby, but who also wasn't interested in helping) that I am a bad daughter.  So, sibling convinced very elderly Mom to move across 2 states to assisted living, left all her friends, and me, and her doctor, dentist, etc. to a place where she has no doctor and can't get one and she knows no one.  Sibling rushed out and rescued Mom from bad daughter. It was a reactionary move done as a punishment to me.

I do love Mom even though she has been very abusive to me. From being her full time care giver while also trying to live my life and do my job, I now have time on my hands since she's gone.  I am left thinking, "What the hell just happened?"

It will probably be better for me when I recover from my grief and sadness.  I am so exhausted from all the drama that overtook my life in the last few years.

Enjoy your vacation, Methuen.  You need and deserve it.

[Outdorenthusiast]

Yay!  I like happy endings   

[catmae1]

Methuen and Notwendy - your mother's sound so similar to mine. But I'm so glad you get to go on your holiday Methuen - you and H definitely deserve the break!

[Methuen]

We are going crazy...Mom has been texting H since yesterday...

Mom: "Ask my eye doctor __________ (it's an demand, not a request). I'm terrified about my eyesight."
Mom: "I don't want to go to my next appointment without you.  Appointments kill me."
Mom: "I'm terrified it will happen again."  (eye infection from next macular degeneration shot)
Mom: "I want to stop this round of drops."
Mom: "don't forget my hearing exam in August"
Mom: "my pulse is still 103"
H: "Your pulse has come down so that tells you your meds are working" (she had decided to stop taking them which put her pulse up to reportedly 148 which took us to the emergency room with her - which is when we discovered she had stopped her heart medication)
H: gives her info about different drugs from pharmacy, and asks her if she wants them in a blister pack or separate in a bottle.  She doesn't reply to the question.  
H: "I will grocery shop for you on Thursday."
Mom: "Yes I won't bother you any more.  I've never bothered your kids.  You want me to thank you for everything.  I want to feel like family.  Don't bother the kids you said."
Me (narrator): nobody told her not to bother our daughter while we are on holidays.  What daughter's SO said Friday night at the family dinner was that they would not  be able to provide the level of care that she has been receiving with us, so that is why Home Health Care checks would be helpful to make sure she was well while we were away. Mom of course twisted that completely.  Her translation: "don't bother the kids".  
H: "So do you want groceries on Thursday and would you like the _____ drug included in the blister pack, or in a separate bottle?"
Mom: "All I want is being loved"
H: "We have always loved you.  That is why we went to emergency with you. I still need to know what you want for groceries and what to tell the pharmacist."
Mom: "I told you already.  Two times in life, once when we're babies and once when old.  You told me you'd come after work, you didn't say which day.  I'm not asking again.  I'm not begging again.  I loved looking after your kids."

Me:  She's irrational. Rambling.  Ignoring the questions H is asking so that he can help her, and then accusing him of making her beg.  She's immersed in her pity party again.  We  called her last night (first night after the emerg night) and she sounded pretty good considering everything.  Then came all the above texts, and now she's fully dysregulatling again.

Am I stuck in some kind of confirmation bias, or do her texts fit the BPD narrative?

We're trying to live our life and get things done before our trip, but she constantly interrupts us by inserting herself into our space with childish and needy texts.  

H had emailed homecare with the email address the case worker gave him before the geriatrician appointment to confirm the homecare arrangement set up weeks ago, and inform of recent events. The nurse said that if anything changed with mom, he could contact her. The email was on the business card.  So he did, and mentioned about mom's trip to emerg, not taking her meds, not getting her bath, and her refusal to get home care while we were away. Today he got a reply from that person saying that email address was only for tax purposes, and he should phone a different number.  Curt and brief, like an admonishment.  No acknowledgement of anything he had written or what the family was suffering, other than she understood another person had already put home care in place while we were away.  The admonishment kinda hurt after what we had been through, and since she had given him the business card.

The texts from mom are exhausting.  

Today, I got an email telling me a merchandise order had arrived.  The order is for 2 puzzles I ordered for mom about 3 months ago.  Tomorrow I will bring them to her.  At least she will have something to do while we are away.  I am probably going to be walking into Dante's Inferno. I will be going alone at the end of my work day. 

My plan is to arrive with the puzzles and pretend nothing has happened.  That is what she  does.  Deliver the puzzles.  Stay a few minutes.  Get home and continue getting ready for our trip.  Any bets on how the visit will go?

Any advice on my plan?

[zachira]

Methuen,
You have a good plan. Keep reminding yourself as necessary that your mother's emotions and feelings belong to your mother and not to you. You are almost ready to leave on vacation and be no contact with your mother for 3 weeks. She will have to deal with her emotional dysregulations while you are away. Your situation reminds me somewhat families with a member who is going into an Alzheimer's unit from home are often told, is to not come to visit for awhile, like a couple of weeks, so the family member can better adjust to the new surroundings.

[Tangled mangled]

We are going crazy...Mom has been texting H since yesterday...

Mom: "Ask my eye doctor __________ (it's an demand, not a request). I'm terrified about my eyesight."
Mom: "I don't want to go to my next appointment without you.  Appointments kill me."
Mom: "I'm terrified it will happen again."  (eye infection from next macular degeneration shot)
Mom: "I want to stop this round of drops."
Mom: "don't forget my hearing exam in August"
Mom: "my pulse is still 103"
H: "Your pulse has come down so that tells you your meds are working" (she had decided to stop taking them which put her pulse up to reportedly 148 which took us to the emergency room with her - which is when we discovered she had stopped her heart medication)
H: gives her info about different drugs from pharmacy, and asks her if she wants them in a blister pack or separate in a bottle.  She doesn't reply to the question.  
H: "I will grocery shop for you on Thursday."
Mom: "Yes I won't bother you any more.  I've never bothered your kids.  You want me to thank you for everything.  I want to feel like family.  Don't bother the kids you said."
Me (narrator): nobody told her not to bother our daughter while we are on holidays.  What daughter's SO said Friday night at the family dinner was that they would not  be able to provide the level of care that she has been receiving with us, so that is why Home Health Care checks would be helpful to make sure she was well while we were away. Mom of course twisted that completely.  Her translation: "don't bother the kids".  
H: "So do you want groceries on Thursday and would you like the _____ drug included in the blister pack, or in a separate bottle?"
Mom: "All I want is being loved"
H: "We have always loved you.  That is why we went to emergency with you. I still need to know what you want for groceries and what to tell the pharmacist."
Mom: "I told you already.  Two times in life, once when we're babies and once when old.  You told me you'd come after work, you didn't say which day.  I'm not asking again.  I'm not begging again.  I loved looking after your kids."

Me:  She's irrational. Rambling.  Ignoring the questions H is asking so that he can help her, and then accusing him of making her beg.  She's immersed in her pity party again.  We  called her last night (first night after the emerg night) and she sounded pretty good considering everything.  Then came all the above texts, and now she's fully dysregulatling again.

Am I stuck in some kind of confirmation bias, or do her texts fit the BPD narrative?

We're trying to live our life and get things done before our trip, but she constantly interrupts us by inserting herself into our space with childish and needy texts.  

H had emailed homecare with the email address the case worker gave him before the geriatrician appointment to confirm the homecare arrangement set up weeks ago, and inform of recent events. The nurse said that if anything changed with mom, he could contact her. The email was on the business card.  So he did, and mentioned about mom's trip to emerg, not taking her meds, not getting her bath, and her refusal to get home care while we were away. Today he got a reply from that person saying that email address was only for tax purposes, and he should phone a different number.  Curt and brief, like an admonishment.  No acknowledgement of anything he had written or what the family was suffering, other than she understood another person had already put home care in place while we were away.  The admonishment kinda hurt after what we had been through, and since she had given him the business card.

The texts from mom are exhausting.  

Today, I got an email telling me a merchandise order had arrived.  The order is for 2 puzzles I ordered for mom about 3 months ago.  Tomorrow I will bring them to her.  At least she will have something to do while we are away.  I am probably going to be walking into Dante's Inferno. I will be going alone at the end of my work day. 

My plan is to arrive with the puzzles and pretend nothing has happened.  That is what she  does.  Deliver the puzzles.  Stay a few minutes.  Get home and continue getting ready for our trip.  Any bets on how the visit will go?

Any advice on my plan?

Oh Lord!
I’ve followed this recent episode of drama from your mum and feel so sorry for you.
I wish you could open the front door, drop the puzzles and and run away like you were a mad person ☺️☺️
She might interpret it as my daughter has lost her mind and maybe leave you in peace.
I don’t know how you manage to it, your husband is totally an angel on Earth for all the help he has given . God bless you both.
My parents are in their 60s and 70s and I want nothing to do with the bpd(mum) narc dad inferno

[TelHill]

She never lets up! My dBPD mom is strong willed and persistent too. You have a great plan. Best not to bring it up again.  Am sorry didn't think of this before and it might have helped. (Or maybe not for your mom.)  It tends to rein in my freewheeling mom. 

Don't ask her if she has a plan or to have her choose between two or greater ideas.  Perhaps structure is more comforting than choice at that age? 

Regardless, enjoy yourself!

[Methuen]

It just never ends.

This afternoon at work I got the following text from mom:

"I am just too sick but I want you to have your needed. I might have to admit myself to hospital if I don't get improve.  Daily I get worse."

She sent a similar text to my H.

We leave on our trip tomorrow.

After work I jumped in my car and paid an impromptu visit to mom's case manager.  I introduced myself in person, and updated her on this latest.  My H has emailed the case manager after the trip to emerg when she discontinued her heart medication, and emerg prescribed home care for while we are away on our trip.  That was 5 days ago, and home care is in place starting tomorrow.  For our next trip (November), the case manager said we would be able to book respite, and said it would be a temporary involuntary institution placement.  We will have to see if that plays out as easily as she made it sound today.

Meanwhile, our D and SO went to visit her at her house and brought her an ice cream at the end of their work day.  Miraculously, they reported her "her usual self".  She devoured the ice cream which didn't look like a person suffering from nausea and needing to go to emerg.  She indicated no issue to them, and the visit was "normal".

So the texts to me and H were each designed to sabotage our trip and guilt us into staying home.  Eight years ago, I took the bait and cancelled a trip with the entire family including our two adult children to a beach destination.  Eight years later, I am going on the camping trip with H.  I am just in disbelief that my own mother would try to make us stay home and miss our trip, when she is fine.  I just can't believe it.

[Notwendy]

Mine does the same thing. But because we don't live near her, she hires help to just be with her whether she needs it or not. To her, if she feels she needs something, someone must be there immediately. She will push the assistance button every 10 seconds. While it does help that I am not in a close enough distance to do this- she can still call, and text, and at times it's phone calls, texts, or deciding she needs to go to emergency.

This also happened when my father was ill. She'd call and say he was very sick and to come quickly. I'd arrange someone to be with the kids and jump in the car- but when I got there, Dad would be stable, home health on the way.

I think the reason behind this, and with your mother too, is that she doesn't want to be alone. Dad was her emotional caretaker, and we were too when we were at home and we still are when we visit and by phone. I wanted to be there for Dad and I eventually realized that BPD mother could leverage that to get me to come to be there for her. Dad was happy to see me come - for her needs. He was fine on his own, he would be able to read or go on his computer. He needed assistance with household tasks but others could do that for him too. When I visited, I would do these things but with him, it was a visit- he enjoyed seeing me. I wasn't there for the purpose of meeting his emotional needs---I realized that my parents wanted me there for BPD mother and so these "come quickly" calls were for that purpose.

One one hand, BPD mother does have some physical issues at her age, but she has large emotional needs. I think what your mother is doing, ( mine too) is BPD related because- they don't perceive their uncomfortable emotions as being their emotions. They see it as something external to them- the fault of someone else, or something else.

Or they have found that someone will meet a physical need more than an emotional need and so present that as a reason. Needing groceries, needing someone to pick up their medicine. My mother will enlist someone to do a trivial task for her and it has to be done right now, by that person, and in a certain way. She will say she need something like a toothbrush, and if we say "just call downstairs, they will bring you one" her reply is no- "so and so" has to go out and get it for me. It's the doing, not the item she wants and if the person goes out of their way to do it for her, the item has more value to her. She somehow feels special when people make large efforts for her.

Eventually I had to have some boundaries on my mother's "come quickly" calls. The risk of doing that is that one might miss a time when we felt we should be there but I could see that her requests were emotionally driven for her. The reaction on her part to my boundaries was over the top- I think what you are seeing is something similar- an extinction burst to your decision to take some time for you and your family.

I am just in disbelief that my own mother would try to make us stay home and miss our trip, when she is fine.  I just can't believe it.

Yes, here is the shocker. For me too, with both my parents. Didn't they consider that when I drop everything, arrange for child care, drive to see them-- for what turned out to be a non emergency situation for Dad and it was to caretake my mother's feelings- that- I was leaving my own kids, paying for childcare? Didn't they care that I had a long drive? I realized that no- they didn't- because they saw my purpose as to meet their needs. Our mother's take victim perspective. Other people don't have needs.

This comes as a shock because, it's not something we ever imagine a parent thinking like that. Most parents show some concern for their children's well being. They'd understand that an adult child has their own family and they'd want that child to enjoy time with them. But this kind of thinking is absent for my mother. I think she's overwhelmed by her own feelings, or perhaps she doesn't actually care. She can be very cold and cruel sometimes.

It's difficult also because, they are aging and have real needs, and we'd like to be there for them when we can. But I think that, ( and for your mother too) even if we did nothing else but attend to their needs, it would not be enough for them. I think the best you can do is decide what you are willing to do and what your boundaries are. Enjoy your holiday- because you have put medical help in place for your mother while you are gone. That is the best you can do.

[zachira]

Not surprising and yes, it hurts to be so badly treated by your own mother. Have a great vacation!

[TelHill]

Methuen,  Your mom's physical health is fine.  She'll never be on board with your decisions if they don't align perfectly with her wants.  Her behavior, like my dBPD mom's, won't change for the better.

She has mandated home health care looking in on her once daily.  She knows how to contact authorities should she truly need help.

I agree that it's unbelievable that their actions show low little they care for us. My immediate and extended family treat me like chattel. 

If I were you, I would go on this vacation.  Her behavior is causing you to hesitate rather than her physical health.

[Methuen]

I think that despite everything,  I’ve had blinders on and always convinced myself she loves me.   The evidence says otherwise.  A self absorbed person is just unlikely to be capable of love in my experience.  We are on the road starting our trip and I am at peace with it. 

[I Am Redeemed]

I’m glad you went on the trip, Methuen. It sounds like that was the absolute best decision you could make for yourself right now.

I think it is a little shocking, disappointing, and very sad when we realize that a parent is so self-absorbed that they genuinely do not consider our needs, wants, comfort, happiness, wellbeing, etc.

My father had COPD towards the end of his life, and he used to have panic attacks frequently in the mornings. He would wake up, have a hard time catching his breath, and then panic which made it even harder to breathe. He would call an ambulance every single time and call me to come right away. It didn’t matter that I had multiple young children at home and couldn’t arrange childcare at the drop of a hat. He expected me to come because he expected me to be as hyper vigilant and anxious about his health as he was. That meant I cared, and was doing what a “good daughter” was expected to do. He couldn’t see that he was running me ragged with the panic and the ambulance trips (sometimes two or three times a week) expecting me to be there every single time. Emotional manipulation. He would guilt trip me if I didn’t come, didn’t come quick enough, or didn’t display an appropriate amount of fear that he might die any moment.

It’s like a game they play- “Prove You Love Me” and they make up the rules as they go along. They are constantly scanning their environment for signs that they’re going to be abandoned, so they engage in actions that feel emotionally manipulative to us in order to get the never ending need for reassurance met in the moment. I think it’s tied to their abandonment fears as well as the object constancy issues. And no, anyone else’s feelings or needs are not considered- that doesn’t work within the context of the “prove you love me” principle. The objective is to get reassurance for themselves and they are oblivious to how it affects others.

[PearlsBefore]

I think it is a little shocking, disappointing, and very sad when we realize that a parent is so self-absorbed that they genuinely do not consider our needs, wants, comfort, happiness, wellbeing, etc.

It’s like a game they play- “Prove You Love Me” and they make up the rules as they go along. They are constantly scanning their environment for signs that they’re going to be abandoned, so they engage in actions that feel emotionally manipulative to us in order to get the never ending need for reassurance.

a) You're too polite, they ARE emotionally manipulative - they don't just appear to us to be ;)

b) Yeah, the top paragraph I quote hits the nail on the head - but one of the reasons I so strongly suggest reading Dr. Christine Lawson's magnum opus on BPD motherhood is because it has a classicist underpinning pre-dating the Linehan-derived models, and Lawson focuses heavily on the fact that years or decades before you wake up and realise it, you already realised it as a child - the thing is you never realised that was abnormal, you assumed everyone's parents genuinely didn't care about needs, wants, comfort, happiness, or health of anyone but themselves if it came down to it - or half the world was like Parent A and half the world like Parent B...the absolute destruction in life this thinking causes, when children are subconsciously exposed to it. My primary dBPD spent years arguing it was demonic possession, not mental illness...as I grow older, I don't dispute it as quickly as I once did.

[Tangled mangled]

So glad you are finally on your way. Enjoy your time away on holiday and I pray your mind remains at peace on your retreat. You deserve it.

It’s one of the most difficult aspects of dealing with a parent with a PD to realise that love is non existent or at best conditional.

[Methuen]

It’s like a game they play- “Prove You Love Me” and they make up the rules as they go along. They are constantly scanning their environment for signs that they’re going to be abandoned, so they engage in actions that feel emotionally manipulative to us in order to get the never ending need for reassurance met in the moment. I think it’s tied to their abandonment fears as well as the object constancy issues. And no, anyone else’s feelings or needs are not considered- that doesn’t work within the context of the “prove you love me” principle. The objective is to get reassurance for themselves and they are oblivious to how it affects others.

This perfectly describes it, and really spoke to me.  It’s bizarrely reassuring to know there are people who truly understand.

We are on the 5th day of our trip, which is mostly off grid.  Apparently my mom was obsessing on the first day about home care not coming at the time of day she demanded.  Not surprising.

While she’s not out of my head, I am working on managing the time I spend thinking about her.  I’m hoping that 3 weeks away gives home care enough time to witness her issues a little more  close up. 

Thanks everyone for the continued support. 

[Notwendy]

I think that despite everything,  I’ve had blinders on and always convinced myself she loves me.   The evidence says otherwise.  A self absorbed person is just unlikely to be capable of love in my experience.  We are on the road starting our trip and I am at peace with it.  

Me too, Methuen. I think we assume that all mothers love their children. I also think we are told that. I recall people telling me "of course your mother loves you". People can't imagine otherwise. We don't either- because, we want to believe that our mothers love us.

I know mine doesn't love me, not because of me but because she's not capable of loving anyone. She's so self focused- and overwhelmed by her own feelings that there's no room for considering anyone else. I also have wondered if she might have sociopathic tendencies. She does not have empathy.

As a child- my impression was that, if I  was good enough, then my mother would love me. But we know that "good enough" isn't attainable for anyone due to their disorder.

There was a contrast between how my father's family treated us kids and how my mother treats me. I know they loved me. It was effortless for them, and for me, it was a given. It wasn't contingent on me trying to be good enough for them. I also saw how my friends' mothers behaved towards them- I knew that this was different somehow, but as a kid, I didn't quite understand it yet.

Where I could see best it was when my father passed away, because anyone who knew me could see that I was grieving but my mother could not perceive that.  I realized that- in order to love someone, one has to know them- as a person, for who they are. I don't think my mother can do that- I think she sees her projections on to people and these can vary according to how she feels and how well they are meeting her needs at the time.

I have since that time seen her be emotionally and verbally abusive to some of her caregivers too. It's not me, it's not them. I don't even think it's because she's intentionally evil. I think she sees her worst feelings projected on to people, instead of the actual people that they are.

If your mother doesn't love you Methuen, it's because she can't do that with anyone. Rather than trying to be "good enough" to her - do what you feel is "good enough" in terms of helping her. It's hard to feel that you have done enough when she's complaining but I don't think our mothers are able to give that kind of approval.

[zachira]

Methuen,
Your mother feels unloved and abandonned, so sadly she is unable to love anybody even her own daughter despite all the love and care you have shown her.

[TelHill]

My mom was on the far end of the BPD spectrum as far as I can remember yet I held onto hope she would get a bit more normal. It's understandable to feel that way. We deserve a loving mother and a responsible parent.

Am still working my way out of hoping for that. Am much better. . Sometimes you just get tired of being mom's Conceirge. That pushed me to stop.

[I Am Redeemed]

My older sister (ubpd) is the one who raised me. It has taken over 45 years for me to come to the realization that no, she does not love me. That is a very lonely feeling, even though I do have love, care, and support from other people.

Knowing that the person who provided most of your "care" as a child is not capable of loving you or seeing you for who you are instead of a distorted projection is a deep feeling of grief. It's a loss. It's grieving for something that I never had (through no fault of my own), just as if my parents had died when I was little or something. I was born into a family that was not able to provide love and emotional support. For a long time, I thought that my sister loved me in her own way despite her mental health issues. Now I fully realize that she does not and can not.

It still hurts, it's still a loss, and it still feels lonely, even though I know it is not my fault.

[zachira]

Isn't this whole site about being involved with close family members or in close relationships with people who have no capacity to love themselves and other people, and how to heal from these losses by learning to have self compassion and developing high levels of self awareness to help us set healthier boundaries with nearly everyone?

[Notwendy]

Yes, but I think there's more to it. There's some wrestling with our conscience. If these people we are concerned with were acquaintance's, we might have little to do with them, but these are significant relationships- and there's some meaning in that.

Why is it so difficult to just cut all contact with them? In some situations, going NC is the best decision for someone- but it isn't easy to do and it's often a last resort.

And self absorbed people tend to pair up with people who over-function as caretakers and these family patterns can prevail. I wonder if there's some evolutionary function to this. Humans, as a species would not survive if all functioned as individuals. We form families and communities. Maybe we are somehow emotionally hard wired to hold on to certain relationships.

I think I have managed to process that my mother doesn't love anyone. I don't expect that from her. It was a shock to realize it, but I know it now. My larger struggle that she's my mother, she's elderly and helpless and also mentally ill vs the need to have the kind of boundaries I might have with a stranger who I don't trust. That middle ground is hard to balance, if that is even possible. More like leaning to one side or the other.

[TelHill]

My elderly dBPD mother has always been abusive and nasty to me. She's hateful.  She can't do housework or yardwork now which used to calm her down for a bit.

I can see her a few times a month for a short time. Any more than that I can't function for a few days.

I sometimes wonder if she's a psychopath and not BPD. Nothing  about her seems remotely normal.

It may be me not wanting to admit the depth of her mental illness due to shame or fear of it rubbing off on me. It could be why I choose VLC and not NC. 

[Notwendy]

Same here TelHill- I also have wondered about this because sometimes she seems to enjoy manipulating and being hurtful and other times seems unaware of how her behavior impacts people. She has no empathy as far as I can tell. She's also very cold.

When she seems to be affectionate, it seems fake. Like she knows it's how she is supposed to act towards her children but it's not sincere. She also lies a lot and we can't tell if she's being truthful or not.

I have been LC as well.  

[Methuen]

Knowing that the person who provided most of your "care" as a child is not capable of loving you or seeing you for who you are instead of a distorted projection is a deep feeling of grief. It's a loss. It's grieving for something that I never had (through no fault of my own), just as if my parents had died when I was little or something. I was born into a family that was not able to provide love and emotional support. For a long time, I thought that my sister loved me in her own way despite her mental health issues. Now I fully realize that she does not and can not.

It still hurts, it's still a loss, and it still feels lonely, even though I know it is not my fault.

This.  Loss is loss, and this is a big one, which I think many of us can relate to.  The grieving for me has been a long process.  It’s a struggle to come to grips with a mother figure who doesn’t fit the social norm of a mother who loves unconditionally and is nurturing.  I think we all have a need to feel nurtured and loved as a child.  Recognizing that may not have been the case and grieving the loss is a huge task we have to bear.  My solace is the belief I have broken that cycle. I wasn’t perfect, but I hope I was good enough. Zachira always makes the point that having a bpd loved one is a lifelong sorrow.  The grieving process helps, but the loss is never erased.

I’m halfway through our camping trip, which is mostly off the grid.  I’m starting to wonder how mom will react when I get home.  

I’m also wondering how she will react when we tell her we will be gone again for 3 weeks in November, which will include both her grandchildren.  Her entire family will be out of the country for 3 weeks.   Not just on a camping trip.

We won’t be sharing that news for another month.  I was able to have a good conversation with her home health case manager the day before we left.  Mom’s escalated behaviors and trips to emerg and attempts to sabatoge our trip by telling us she was dying was untenable.  I learned in that meeting there may be options for our November trip.  This is a relatively new case manager.  We will have to see what happens.

I also struggle with the contact with mom, which is another conversation on this thread.  Seeing her destabilizes me emotionally.  And yet I must do it because I am an only child, responsible for her, and she is helpless and dependent, but still has capacity to refuse assisted living.  I struggle with the obligations and the intensity of her projections.  It only stops when I am not around her.  LC is my tool, which I only managed to use by coming out of retirement and returning to work.  My H has been a godsend as he took over her grocery shopping and taking her to appointments.  He plays stupid with her and does not let her hold him emotional hostage, although she tries.  He comes home frustrated and exhausted after helping her, which wears on me terribly. Still, I have much to be thankful for.  Including this forum.  These conversations and opportunities to express ourselves to those who can truly empathize are incredibly important.

[Notwendy]

It's likely she will react to the news about your trips-  but you should go anyway. I think our mothers are accustomed to having power due to their behavior. You don't want to enable this- you can go on your trips- your decision isn't hers to control.

I am glad there's a case manager involved. Yes, your mother needs assisted living but from my own experience, it's not worked well with my mother. Her emotional issues and behavior are interfering with the resources she gets there too. Their issues are a part of who they are, wherever they are. The case manager can be very helpful- this way, someone else is helping you with this.

The loss of what I think of as a loving mother- that registered with me the most when my father got ill and passed away. I already knew she could be verbally and emotionally abusive. I didn't think she'd go as far with it as she did but once she did, I realized that she didn't have caring feelings for me. This was an illusion based on my own wants- don't we all want a loving mother? I think we fill in the blanks on this one. And also my father would say" of course your mother loves you" which, as a child, you believe.

Interesting now as she had verbally abused me over the phone a while back while I was staying with her family and they heard it/saw me cry. She cares about what they think and so she's been complimenting me to them and to me now. It feels fake. At this point, I don't want any caring gestures from her. I don't want compliments from her.

[livednlearned]

I’m also wondering how she will react when we tell her we will be gone again for 3 weeks in November, which will include both her grandchildren.  Her entire family will be out of the country for 3 weeks.

Your mother's behavior in anticipation of this current trip suggests she doesn't do well when there is an extended period of time to process an impending departure date 

[Methuen]

I completely agree lnl.  Unfortunately my H disagrees.  He thinks it’s more responsible to give her notice, and says she would benefit by being given time to process it.   I’m thinking (to myself) “Really?  You want to go through this again X 100?”  Next time she will probably deliberately cause a near death experience to prevent us from leaving.  He’s thinking like a rational person.  Acting rationally with an irrational person doesn’t work, based on history.  He does so much to support me that I’m struggling to navigate our dissonance on this.  

What do you all think would be a good amount of advance notice to give her?  

My main argument to my H for delaying is to spare her the anxiety.  On the other hand I don’t want to give her so little notice that it’s a shock she doesn’t survive.

This is a prime example of how we have to overthink everything because of their emotional fragility. 

Everything is a dilemma.

[Notwendy]

I am more in agreement with you Methuen. It seems the more notice my BPD mother has to anticipate an event ( even a good one)- the more time she has to act out over it. Some things, I just don't inform her about. But something like leaving town- which your mother would need to be informed about, I would.

It is unfortunate that we overthink this, but we do it because of our experiences with these things. The main thing is that- we can anticipate a reaction- and there really isn't a certain amount of time of notice that will make this easier.

One thing I learned in 12 steps was to ask - what side of the fence I am on. If I am trying to manage someone else's feelings- I am not keeping on my side of the fence. The timing of this needs to be based on my own values/feelings.

Consideration for BPD mother does factor into the decision, because that is a value- for you and your H ( and for me too). It's not possible to change her feelings but you have to feel that you gave her ample notice to arrange home health and any support she might need while you are out of town. I think that's where your H is coming from as well. You both want to feel you gave enough notice.

Too much notice though, extends the drama - and that is also something I don't want to do- this is my side of the fence too. I can't change how my mother feels or reacts, but she also tends to focus on one thing that I did or didn't do and be upset about that.  

The timing is a "no-win" situation because, she will be upset about it anyway. So it comes down to my own values and my own boundaries. How much information does she need to know, how much is private. It's more like how do we hang on to our own raft in the middle of the emotional reaction, because we can't do anything about how she will react.

Methuen, I think the difference in how much notice between you and your H is a difference in doing what seems right to each of you. It's only a difference in time. You are both trying to do what seems right for your mother. This may only be a difference in custom, or what you are both used to. Or it may be that your H isn't as bothered by her reactions as you are- and this makes sense- he didn't grow up with her. Neither of you is "wrong"- it's different. My H doesn't have the same experiences with my mother as I have either.

I recall a time when there was a family reunion on my father's side of the family and we planned to go with the kids. This was a delicate situation. Dad was already deceased. BPD mother clearly disliked his family. They were cordial to her because of her connection to my father. I assumed that now they'd have nothing to do with each other now that they didn't have to. So she wasn't invited. Also, I understood that she'd feel hurt that we were making the effort to visit them and not her. I didn't want to hurt her feelings, but this is the family we bonded with as kids, as they took us in a lot, and we wanted to visit them.

I dreaded having to tell BPD mother- and I had to tell her. She'd have found out. Someone would have posted a picture on social media, someone would have told her. Although not knowing might have spared her feelings, that argument didn't hold up- I didn't want to hurt her feelings but I was also afraid of how she would react.

She did react and it was as expected. Strangely- she acted insulted. How dare they don't invite her? But she doesn't like them. Then she said she was never sending the kids presents for birthdays or holidays anymore. (as if that had anything to do with that). We had been telling her already to not send gifts- just cards anyway. Then she told us not to call her.

A few weeks later, she called me, as if nothing happened.  

[zachira]

Methuen,
Now that you know how to get home health care to take care of your mother while you are on vacation, you can go away. It seems you have two deadlines: one is to arrange the home health care which you probably need to do well in advance of your vacation. The other is letting your mother know much closer to the date of your departure that you will be leaving on vacation and when you will be back. When does your husband think you should tell your mother about your vacation and when do you think you should do so? Perhaps you could set up the home health care to start a few days before you leave, so that they will be in charge of handling any unnecessary trips to the emergency room and other crisis.

[livednlearned]

What do you all think would be a good amount of advance notice to give her?

It's a good question. At what point did she seem to start dysregulating with this recent trip? Did she hear mention of the trip and then file it away, dysregulating only as things started to get closer to departure?

I don't know if this suggestion is helpful because it's a lot of emotional labor ... a child psychologist helped me and H go out alone when SD26 was living with us. Before seeing the psychologist, H and I would go out and SD26 would blow up his phone and text things like "there's no point in living."

The first two times we left dinner and came home early. The child psychologist recommended that H tell SD26 a week in advance that we were going out, then keep casually reminding her throughout the week, suggesting offers of things they could do together the day we were going out. "Remember that LnL and I are going out Saturday night. You and I can grab coffee Saturday morning then go for a hike together. If you want we can make lunch together and if you want to work out together at the gym we can do that too." Then Saturday he was instructed to tell SD26 he was going to turn his phone off during dinner and would check in with her before heading home.

I had mixed feelings about all this. H asked me to make food for SD26 (she is weird about people making food for her). So H spent the day with SD26 while I cooked for her.

I'm not sure it was worth all that just to have 90 min with H.

But that's what the psychologist recommended we do (except for H asking me to make SD26 a meal).

[Methuen]

We are 2/3 of the way through our camping trip, and getting back to being “in the grid” more reliably. It has been wonderful and restorative so far. It’s so different from having the monkey on my back 24/7 when I’m at home and mother can text me anytime. And yes, I ignore many of them, and choose when to respond on my own time, but the monkey is still present with a vice like grip.  On this trip (out of service) and far away, there has been no monkey.  What a difference.

It's a good question. At what point did she seem to start dysregulating with this recent trip? Did she hear mention of the trip and then file it away, dysregulating only as things started to get closer to departure?

Exactly.  This appears to be what happens. We told her months ago about this trip.  The behaviors started a couple of weeks before we were due to leave, and just kept escalating right to our departure.

I don't know if this suggestion is helpful because it's a lot of emotional labor ... a child psychologist helped me and H go out alone when SD26 was living with us. Before seeing the psychologist, H and I would go out and SD26 would blow up his phone and text things like "there's no point in living."

The subject of S26’s texts, ie death (without being a direct suicide threat), parallels what is happening with my mother.  The difference is that in my elderly mother’s case, she says things like “I feel like I’m dying “ or “you’re waiting for me to die “, or “you don’t love me” . Then she decides to stop taking a heart medication.  Her pulse goes up to some crazy number ( 148?) and then she calls and tells us to take her to emergency.  After that episode which was 5 days before we left, the last one came the day before we left where she said “I don’t know if I will make it”.  After receiving that is when I went to see her case manager.

I had mixed feelings about all this. H asked me to make food for SD26 (she is weird about people making food for her). So H spent the day with SD26 while I cooked for her.

I can understand your mixed feelings very well.  I have very very mixed feelings about this as we are at the end of our personal resources and this plan is a huge investment of personal resources.  What I did do was drop in 3 days before we left and bring her another puzzle and visit. That was as much as I could do as I was working full time while getting ready for an intensive camping trip into the wilderness.  Not to mention I just don’t have the personal resources to deal with my mother.  What your child psychologist is suggesting is great in theory, but it can only work in practice at the cost of the “emotional caretakers”.  This is a problem when those caretakers don’t have emotional resources remaining.

As an aside, I am curious about why H asked you to cook for S26? Was it emotional, so that she would feel special, or is it because she doesn’t cook for herself?  I’m wondering if a remedy for you would be to bounce that back to H to cook the dinner- it’s a big ask.  What’s the point to being taken out to dinner if you have to cook it anyway?  It was an interesting ask by your H.  I get it - he was trying to set the night up for success and take care of S26’s feelings.  But I also wonder what she would learn from all this, and what she would expect next time you have date night. Just a curious question….

Zachira- that is a good suggestion which I will certainly do.  Sadly, this case manager is only temporary, and returning to her regular position at some point.  My goal is to set up mom’s care for our Nov trip before the caseworker returns to her other job.  And your point about starting the care before we leave is a really good one.  Thank you.

NW, your point about honouring our own values, and not mother’s feelings is a good one.  Her feelings are going to happen regardless, so what we need to do, is find the happy medium that is right for us. I needed that reminder, so thank you for that.  

So, we leave the beginning of Nov.  We are thinking of telling her the end of Sept, when her GC grandson is home for a little visit, and we are all together (incl granddaughter), since we are all traveling together.  The point of telling her when we are together is to make the shooting target equal on all of us, and not just me and H. This would be about 5-6 weeks before our departure.  I already know what will happen.  The talk about death and the behaviors will ramp up as it did this time.  She is selfish enough to sabotage our trip.  But elderly people need more time to adjust to something, and if she’s gotta accept care again, or even a different level of care, then she probably has a right to some advance notice.

Thoughts?

[Notwendy]

I agree with not giving too long notice.

I found that if BPD mother has a long time to think about something, the drama and trying to take control of the situations is over that time frame. The only way I know to lessen that is to have less notice.

Even for good things. For a family event/get together- she wants to have a say in the food served, who is invited- even if it's us hosting and paying for it, she still wants her say in it. It is better to give just enough notice for her to make plans.

I think enough notice to make plans for someone to help your mother when you go out of town is enough.

[Tangled mangled]

So, we leave the beginning of Nov.  We are thinking of telling her the end of Sept, when her GC grandson is home for a little visit, and we are all together (incl granddaughter), since we are all traveling together.  The point of telling her when we are together is to make the shooting target equal on all of us, and not just me and H. This would be about 5-6 weeks before our departure.  I already know what will happen.  The talk about death and the behaviors will ramp up as it did this time.  She is selfish enough to sabotage our trip.  But elderly people need more time to adjust to something, and if she’s gotta accept care again, or even a different level of care, then she probably has a right to some advance notice.

Thoughts?

My thoughts:
I think you are being extremely generous considering what your mum has already done before your current trip.
It makes a lot of sense sharing the news when everyone is present but for your own sanity’s sake , imo 2 weeks will be the maximum notice for bpd mother like yours.

On the other hand you are doing what’s best for you and maybe you will get to implement home care safely this time and not get involved when she starts throwing those shuts again

[I Am Redeemed]

I’m inclined to agree with something closer to two weeks, as well. However, I understand the idea of breaking the news when GC is there.

Perhaps you can see how this trip went with the home health care, and reach out to the case manager to arrange care for the next trip as well as for assistance in managing any emergency issues that pop up directly before your departure date of the next trip.

Does her PCP have a medical social worker on staff, or does the home health care agency have one? It may help to set up a consultation to talk about your concerns about your mother’s behavior (including the reckless discontinuation of medication) when dysregulating about your impending trips.

[GaGrl]

My intuition is saying two weeks notice would be best. If arrangements are in place at that time, your mother's attention can be focused on where and with whom she will be with.

After I retired, my husband and I spent a month in Europe. Had my son not been available to stay with my mom, it would have been tricky. She had a caregiver coming in three mornings a week, but it was apparent that at age 93, Mom was not able to be alone at night.

In spite of the obvious, she resisted any attempts to "tell her what to do." I had to be very careful in planning that month to ensure she was approving of any suggestions. Believe me, I was ready for that month away!

[livednlearned]

We are 2/3 of the way through our camping trip, and getting back to being “in the grid” more reliably. It has been wonderful and restorative so far.

 

The behaviors started a couple of weeks before we were due to leave, and just kept escalating right to our departure.

That's probably a good clue. Although the primary person to focus on is you and what feels ok for you. Sometimes people give me advice that I know is healthy and right, but it causes me a lot of stress. I often have to find a middle path that moves me in the right direction at a pace my nervous system can tolerate.

Maybe "We're thinking about a trip to Europe in Nov" 5 weeks before, then drop it. Four weeks in, "We'd like to do a trip with all the kids in Nov," then drop it. Three weeks in, "Might make more sense to pack a lot in and stay like 3 weeks," then drop it. Two weeks in, "GC is going to facetime you from Europe when we're there," or something like that?

I'm just thinking about the child psychologists suggestion to do a slow drip. I think it was also about H feeling like he did enough so when SD26 protest behaviors kicked into high gear, it was easier to manage them.

SD26 protest behaviors crescendoed the day of and peaked right before we walked out the door. What took some of the wind out of her sails, and what made it easier for H to go out, is that he had offered her more than enough time that day, which in essence was what gave him the strength to stick to the plan.

SD26 was clinging to him at the door with a bear hug, like a toddler hugging a parents' leg. A full-grown adult toddler. H took her arms and held them by her side and looked directly into her eyes and said "SD26, we had a nice day, we went to coffee, we hiked, we had lunch, we went to the gym. We spent all day together and now it's my time and I'm going out for a few hours." SD26 had a grin on her face and was giggling like it was a game but there was aggression to it.

Then when we got to the restaurant H checked his phone and there were multiple messages from SD26 saying she thought she heard an alarm going off. I texted my son (who was home and in his room) and he poked his head out of his door and said he didn't hear anything.

I think for H it helped to feel like he did everything he could. That made it easier to dismiss SD26 because she was asking for too much. Versus without a plan, he was a bit more dragged through the mud.

Then she decides to stop taking a heart medication.  Her pulse goes up to some crazy number ( 148?) and then she calls and tells us to take her to emergency.

Your mom is reckless with her health and seems to use it as a bargaining chip she can play when needed. She isn't going to change so I can see why you might expect the same from her in November. That does give you a chance to put some safeguards in place, even though I know it doesn't solve the problem of her harming herself to control what others do.

This might also play a role in how much time you give her. If receiving a self-threatening text helps to get a case manager involved, and you don't want that happening during the very busy 2 weeks before you leave, then that might influence when you tell her (this is how my thinking would go).

I can understand your mixed feelings very well.

Mixed feelings seems to be my new normal when it comes to SD26. The solutions often create distress, and then I have to manage that distress along with core issues. The optimal state is for SD26 to be able to self-soothe but since that isn't likely to happen without treatment and motivation, the remaining options seem to often leave me with mixed feelings.

What your child psychologist is suggesting is great in theory, but it can only work in practice at the cost of the “emotional caretakers”.  This is a problem when those caretakers don’t have emotional resources remaining.

So true. It enabled us to achieve a meagre goal (going out for 90 min) but ruined the day for both us, tbh. Some of it was H bargaining with himself, and me going along with it. The psychologist didn't say "spend all day with SD26 and have LnL cook for her" but that's what it turned into. H and I are better at communicating now (7 years later) but we can still do better. Back then, I went along with the plan because he was making changes and I saw my contribution as support.

What I think now, looking back, is that the emotional labor was like a form of hostage-taking. In exchange for an entire day and 3 meals, we spent 90 min together in a bit of a crap mood.

I am curious about why H asked you to cook for S26?

Appeasement. Sort of like negotiating with someone you know is going to abuse you in the hopes it will pay off. Which of course it never does.

SD26 is weird about people cooking for her. I learned when SS24 was here last week that his BPD mom is abusive about food but I didn't pry further.

One time H was on a trip and I wanted to use the week to get my dissertation done. I planned to hole up at the library and pull long days. So I told SD26 I was going to be out of pocket for the week, but would leave cash on the kitchen counter if she wanted to order take-out or get dinner with friends. She blew up H's phone with "LnL told me to get out of the house."

I also wonder what she would learn from all this, and what she would expect next time you have date night.

It was more what I learned for next time. I remember it wasn't a light-hearted fun night out because we were drained. If my memory is correct, there wasn't a next time.

Instead I moved toward hanging out with friends so I could have fun regardless of what H was doing. We had a really nice neighborhood tap house and became friends with neighbors who liked to spend time there Friday nights. When SD26 blew up H's phone and felt the need to head phone, friends offered to drive me home. Versions of that were on repeat for about a year and I think it was necessary to H could feel his own frustration enough to motivate real change. With me at his side every step of the way, it watered things down so he didn't have to feel the consequences of his choices so much.

With your mom, it seems like a conversation for you and your H to have about what you're willing to abide and for how long. You know yourself and your mom best -- having everyone there in order to deflect the ranting makes sense to me. It diffuses the anger into a group that she cannot behave badly in front of (to an extent). Whereas with you she has fewer limits and it's a lot for one person (or two, if H is there) to absorb.

[Methuen]

We only have 3 days of our trip left (back in steady cell service!) and mother has been creeping back into my psyche ( for a few days already).  There are a few subtle signs she hasn’t coped well.  

I woke up in the middle of the night and my brain clicked onto her.  So here I am - trying to process.  

I’m working to not let my brain run away with worst case scenario’s about her.  Which is an interesting challenge for me because she seems like an actual worst case scenario.

Breathe Methuen breathe.

Refocus on the present.  

We are camping with friends for the next 2 days.  And we have a beautiful spot with fun memories picked out for our last night.  

I’m also just observing how the closer I get to being home again meaning closer proximity to her, she is occupying more space in my thoughts.  How sad it is that our BPD parent makes us so anxious, rather than excited to see them again.  

I have noticed that participating in others threads helps to distract and calm me.  I figure it’s more productive than ruminating over mother and possible bad things to unfold, and also getting stressed from not sleeping.  

I am going to practice my breathing and try to be present.

[zachira]

I hear your anxiety and distress about having to be in close contact with your mother again. What are the things that you do now that help you to feel safe? Who are the people whom you feel safe with and make you feel protected? For some victims of trauma, it can help to remind yourself that you are safe now, and to list the reasons why you are indeed safe now while you were not in the past.

[livednlearned]

I’m also just observing how the closer I get to being home again meaning closer proximity to her, she is occupying more space in my thoughts.  How sad it is that our BPD parent makes us so anxious, rather than excited to see them again.

I relate so much to this.

Sometimes anxiety is a form of imagination that leads us to expend energy on things that never happen but in your situation, the anxiety is probably so woven into your relationship with your mother they are all but inseparable. Her neediness alone produces anxiety. It means we have to work whether we cave to the boundary or withstand it, and that alone (having to do work) can evoke anxiety for me. 

Breathe Methuen  

How would you like re-entry to go? How would you like to feel when you walk through your doors? Are there realistic ways you can share the burden of your mom with H that he would be willing and able to help with?

With sleep-time rumination, which for me is the most vulnerable time, I have a weird little story that I work on. The stories have changed over the years but they work almost like a fantasy that my brain likes, and it helps distract me and keep me calm. Do you have any strategies that work for you?

My H is a big fan of visualization, which doesn't work quite as well for me.

The episode where SD26 locked my bedroom and bathroom door for example. Before that, I tried to imagine ways I could stay grounded and not let my feelings jack me up so hard. I don't know if that's a reasonable thing to strive for, but it bothers me that I tell myself to remain calm yet in the thick of it I may as well be on an hours-long roller coaster that won't slow down. When I think about visualization with something like that, it's me locking the door so she can't get in the house 

[Methuen]

For some victims of trauma, it can help to remind yourself that you are safe now, and to list the reasons why you are indeed safe now while you were not in the past.

Thanks for this reminder.  I needed that.  Although, when I think of safety I think most people think of physical safety.  My problem is around emotional safety.  It doesn’t seem to matter how much work we do at setting boundaries and trying to take care of ourselves, when they are dysregulating, they say things to hurt us. Such as” You shouldn’t be going on holidays!  You don’t love me! You are just waiting for me to die!” H and I have done so much for her all our lives, and so it is always a shock when these statements come out with a torrent of vehemence and reprimand and anger”.  In a way I am safe , but then again I am never safe from her feelings, which are true for her but not for me.

LNL,

How would you like re-entry to go?

This is such a good question.  I dream of a genuine welcoming and exhange of hugs like so many people enjoy when reunited with loved ones, but that  isn’t possible. Realistically, I guess it’s simply greetings and sharing photos.  I really don’t want to hear about her gripes, her pains, her made up gossipy narratives, and I really don’t want her to FOG me, blame me or verbally hurt me, either on the first visit or any visit down the road, because I went on vacation and “left her all alone “.

LNL, I’m interested in the “weird story you work on” when you can’t sleep.  Is it a piece of fiction, or are you reframing certain real events to give them a new ending?

I generally first try to focus on my breathing.  When that doesn’t work, I distract my brain with my phone and reading news stories.  That can sometimes make me nod off.  Or I come here. Sometimes I go on a meditation app.  But I’m interested in your “weird strory” strategy because I like stories, and reading and writing.

[livednlearned]

I really don’t want to hear about her gripes, her pains, her made up gossipy narratives, and I really don’t want her to FOG me, blame me or verbally hurt me, either on the first visit or any visit down the road, because I went on vacation and “left her all alone “.

Something I do when I visit my mother is to narrate the conversation in my head. It helps build a bubble that creates some distance. Your mother seems more hyper vigilant about your degree of attention so this might not work for you. For example, "This is a story about someone who she's never met but that doesn't stop the narrator from telling this story. It's a friend's husband's brother's daughter's best friend, who is visiting? or no, she's staying with them, and they are at a party and the daughter? no, it's the best friend, brought a dog who appears to be changing breeds mid-story and now the story has moved to a cruise ship and it's not about the dog, it's about the smell of feces near the buffet table that she reported to the young man standing there who doesn't work there but should do something because she's offended."

LNL, I’m interested in the “weird story you work on” when you can’t sleep.  Is it a piece of fiction, or are you reframing certain real events to give them a new ending?

A bit of both. Sometimes they're kinda embarrassing stories to admit to but since we're in a safe space here ...   .

I listen to a podcaster who interviews artists and one time I was thinking what would it be like to answer some of the questions, specifically about how their life experiences have influenced their art and also their careers. I'm not an artist so it's pure fantasy to think about how I would answer the questions. I used to work on this story almost like a piece of fiction, rewriting in my head and adding details and kind of building a world around this fictional character who is influenced by her childhood to create her art, and how her life is shaped by that and the people she meets. So autobiographical but ... fiction.

Another story I had for a long time was two kids who lived in townhomes next to each, born the same day, from two very different families, how their childhoods were shaped by living next to each other. Until a fire burnt down the homes and the families had to move, how their lives changed and the friendship went through a different arc, mainly because one child lost contact with the parents in the other family, who had such a positive influence. I think it was rooted in a fantasy for me of having a safe, loving family nearby and a pseudo sibling to offset the hollowness and danger of my own experience. Sometimes these stories just come up and it takes a while to recognize what they're really about for me. 

I’m interested in your “weird strory” strategy because I like stories, and reading and writing.

I started doing this at the height of pain during my divorce from n/BPDx when I felt so overwhelmed and trapped and alone. I had no money, no time, and this kind of popped up as something I could do anytime, almost like working on a puzzle except it was all in my head and the solution could be anything I wanted it to be.

It's only now thinking about it that I realize I use stories in a therapeutic way. Like a lot of people who had a violent and/or abusive childhood, I have a hypervigilant streak and used to feel like I had to show up and pay close attention. Only recently as an adult did I realize that people like my mother are not paying as close attention to me as I thought. The storytelling might be a cop out a bit because I'm nodding my head and looking at the person (whether it's my mother or SD26) but I'm doing something entirely different. And I'm a bit shocked to learn how little they notice I'm not really listening. Nodding my head, saying, Wow, or Huh, or Interesting, or some other facial expression that passes for engagement -- all of that is in my toolkit for dealing with difficult people.

I wonder if any of this could work for you.

When I go visit my mother and know that her energy is going to drain me or enrage me, I try to think of our interaction like a video game. One point when she uses the word "scary" and two points for "terrifying" and double points if they're in the same sentence. I'll do the same with negative stories. One point for every negative story and if she says something positive, I subtract a point. If she puts someone down, that's two points.

My husband finds this beyond amusing. He started a game where he gives them a point if they ask him a question about his life (they never do). He is a kind person and tries to support me by having conversations with my mother. She's so very very very self-centered and terribly boring to talk to so he will come back to me and report whether she earned any points for saying something interesting. He also picked up on the fact that she never asks questions about my son and loves to talk about my nieces so that's another point system he tracks. 

I told my son about some of this and he started scoring my mother's texts to him which are so strange we all share them and do a live reading to each other. It's mean but makes things bearable for everyone. She sent him a baseball hat sized for a small child (he's 22) and then sent a text asking him if he liked the t-shirt. I suspect there is some cognitive decline happening but her whole life she has never been able to connect on a deep level with people. It isn't benign when it's your mother who treats you like a garbage can so I figure the point of all this is to make my interactions with her tolerable. Without these strategies I get back spasm from the stress, or shingles, or vestibular migraines. I need a lifeline and this seems to be working ok (as long as I'm also limiting time with her and other coping mechanisms).

[Notwendy]

I relate so much to this.

Her neediness alone produces anxiety.

I can relate, Methuen. I also sometimes wake up at night too. If she calls frequently- that's difficult. When she doesn't call- I think it's because she is up to something.

It's become evident that moving her to assisted living has not helped as much as we have hoped. It has helped in some ways- one is that she isn't alone in her house- even with one on one helpers at the house- she still controlled the situation. At least in assisted living she isn't dealing with house repairs, meals, and there is staff to check on her. But she remains difficult and she doesn't make use of the amenities there, and has a high need of attention, continues to spend money recklessly- and is still considered legally able to do that.

I think a common theme here is the engaging in self destructive behaviors- which result in a crisis situation rather than to accept advice and practice protective behaviors. No matter what arrangement is made for their own well being, they seem to sabotage it. Your mother is doing this in her own home. Mine did this until it became unsustainable financially for her. Her living situation is different but her behaviors are the same.

I think the crisis to crisis pattern is a part of it. It seems that somehow, there was some kind of situation that demanded immediate response in my family that somehow hijacked the attention to BPD mother. It makes sense we'd be thinking about how to manage- to gain some sense of control.

[Methuen]

It's become evident that moving her to assisted living has not helped as much as we have hoped. It has helped in some ways- one is that she isn't alone in her house- even with one on one helpers at the house- she still controlled the situation. At least in assisted living she isn't dealing with house repairs, meals, and there is staff to check on her. But she remains difficult and she doesn't make use of the amenities there, and has a high need of attention, continues to spend money recklessly- and is still considered legally able to do that.

I am sorry to hear that moving her to assisted living hasn't helped as much as what you had hoped.  

For me it might be different because I live in the same small community as her and everyone sees me and H as being responsible for her, since the social expectation is to "take care of your elderly mother". They don't know her like we do. She generally only shows her "charming" side to public people that aren't immediate family.  She is 87.  Her friends in their 90's are different from her because they can still drive, shop for their own groceries, cook their own meals, get themselves to appointments, shower/bath, visit friends, participate in their community to varying degrees. They still get family support for some things, but not for every little thing.
 
My mom can't do any of that. She doesn't cook for herself or bath herself. We are obligated to do more than is "generally normal for her age", because when we have set up home care, she cancels it, and she is legally able to do that.  If she was in assisted living, we wouldn't have to do any of that, or her house repairs, or so many other time consuming things that we have to arrange because she "can't".  Assisted living would also cut down our required contact time, which would cut down our stress and frustration from being treated as her slaves.  Quite frankly, we have set up boundaries and hold them as best as possible, but it’s still too much.  We wouldn't expect assisted living to change her personality, or make her any less "high conflict" or emotional or anything else. We wouldn't even expect her to participate in activities. Assisted living is not going to "fix" her.  But it would vastly improve our quality of life, because she is grossly sabotaging our "golden years".  She brings unbelievable stress and drama into our lives.  To the point that I "have" to work to have a safe boundary from her.  Of course I resent that, because there are many things on my bucket list that I would like to be doing in my retirement, but I can't, because I have to work.  And I have to work to feel safe from her.  At one point I was frustrated with my boss (loved the job and my clients but the boss was triggering and could even have a PD), and considered "retiring" again, and my T strongly advised me against it, until I had another plan in place for different employment.  I have since changed jobs.

This is a woman who idolized a spinster who retired to "look after her mother" full time.  After the mother passed, the spinster committed suicide.  In my mom's words, she did it because "she missed her mom".  She shared that story with me in such a way to make a point.  

I think the crisis to crisis pattern is a part of it.

 Certainly.  They always need a crisis.  Causing a storm and being in the eye of it gives my mom energy.  It's her "normal".  When she gets outside of that for too long (things are going along too smoothly), she gets uncomfortable and has to create more drama to be comfortable again.  That has been explained to me by several T's over the years.  I get it now.  But it took me a long time to "get it" because it is so counterintuitive to those of us who are not high conflict.

So no, going into assisted living won't change her.  But it would let us live our lives in retirement the way we want to.  Right now we don't have that option, because we are beholden to her.  It's a leg hold trap.

Update on the return of our trip:

We phoned her last night to tell her we were home.  She's deaf, and sabotaged hearing aid appointments for months now, so the phone call was a gong show.  She thought we were phoning from her driveway.  She asked about our trip.  Before I was three words into a reply, she interrupted and said "I can cancel home care now right?"

This morning at 9:10am I got a call from home care.  They said she had called to tell them her "daughter was home and would take care of her now".  It was the last day of home care, so it wasn't a big deal.  But it shows her expectation and entitlement "to be taken care of".  

She is like a 2 year old.

This greatly annoyed me, on the first morning back home.

Later, we brought her a gift from our trip.  It is an activity that she likes to do.  She reported to us that the home care people "said they wished all their clients were like her.  Then their job would be easy!"

I have no doubts she behaved herself for them, because she needs to appear "able" if she is to retain her competency.

She also reported that all the people who came to her house were "nice", even the " d_ _ _ y".

She was no longer dysregulated. She even said "everything went well and we could go on another trip".  I cheerfully replied, "good to hear mom.  Maybe we'll do that!"

Still, she called home care as soon as they opened this morning to cancel today's visit.

[zachira]

I am a little confused here. Her doctor said she had to have home health care while you were away. Is it possible to phone her doctor today, and say that you are not around much, that you work full time and have serious health issues yourself, and you and your husband have several weekend trips planned, are busy in the evenings, and your mother needs to be checked in on regularly and possibly make an immediate appointment with your mother and doctor to discuss scheduling permanent home health care and have the doctor tell her she cannot cancel it or she will not be able to stay in her home? I am concerned as you are that you do not go back to the same old routines as before you left on vacation. Could you make some plans for some short trips between now and your next vacation? Is any of this possible? It is so hard when your mother is always pushing your boundaries to see what she can get away with. The home health care people surely have documented that she is unable to live on her own. Now is possibly the time to make the case with her doctor that you can no longer be responsible for your mother without home health care in place and have the doctor tell your mother this in your presence. I am learning to play the card with my disordered relatives of only seeing them with other people around who they want to look good in front of. Sounds like your mother is very invested in staying in her home, and she knows who she has to impress to do so, and her doctor is on to the fact that she cannot be alone in her home without sufficient outside support. Her doctor needs to know that you and your husband can no longer provide this support.

[Methuen]

Hi Zachira,

Thanks for the reply.  It was the emergency doctor that put home care in place while we were away on vacation.  He put the order in for while we were on vacation. She doesn’t see her family doc that often, and since the early pandemic, docs have gone to phone appointments where I live.  

Where I live, there is the sense that the medical system is collapsing.  There aren’t enough family docs, hospitals are understaffed with nurses and docs, and there are huge waitlists for assisted living and long term care.  I have heard that the waitlist for assisted living in my area is 300.  That equates to years because ours is a small facility.  In fact, many hospital beds are occupied by long term care patients because there aren’t enough long term care beds in specialized facilities.

There is also a staff shortage in home care.  

It’s really quite the mess and hard on families.

Mom’s family doc knows her.  But where I live there is a high bar for removing capacity, and a real reluctance to do so.  It’s very taxing on families.  The situation has put some families in the position of dropping off the elderly parent at emerg, and refusing to take them home again.

I don’t know if these systemic stresses play a role in why her family doc doesn’t take charge of determining her capacity, or if it’s just our medical system’s philosophy that the elderly keep their capacity until they walk outdoors in the cold naked, or threaten suicide.  

She saw the geriatrician in early June and put on a stellar performance where he even remarked that “she was doing better than he expected “.  He made no comments about assisted living, and her family doc would be relying on that I imagine.  

The multiple trips to emerg and dysregulation started the day after her geriatrician appt.

What she does to us is invisible to everyone else, so they don’t see or experience her behaviors.  She reported that home care staff told her they wished all their client visits were as easy as her. It appears she cons them. They don’t experience her neediness like we do. They don’t experience the “Borderline PD”. 

Our system is public. About 2 years ago, I disclosed everything and shared so many examples.  Nothing came of it. Who do they believe?  Me or their staff? Their staff see an old lady who can occasionally be difficult or noncompliant, but is not incompetent.  

She is a master manipulator.

[zachira]

Methuen,
I am so sad for you that you have so little hope of being able to reduce even more your exposure to your mother's abuse of you and your husband. It is like we have discussed so many times before, at some point the dam will break, and some kind of emergency will happen that ends your having so much of a burden of caring for your mother. I get it when you say some families drop off their high maintenance elderly family member at the emergency room and refuse to take them home. Yes, your mother is a master manipulator and you are getting very experienced in outwitting her. What is your plan to stay as safe as you can from your mother's manipulations now that you are back home?

[TelHill]

She saw the geriatrician in early June and put on a stellar performance where he even remarked that “she was doing better than he expected “.  He made no comments about assisted living, and her family doc would be relying on that I imagine.  

The multiple trips to emerg and dysregulation started the day after her geriatrician appt.

Things have changed then for her past the visit to the geriatrician.  If these episodes were real or planned to force you to stay home, I think she's having short lived but troubling medical episodes at home anyway.  

My mom would lie on the bathroom floor when I got up in the morning telling me she'd fallen. I was concerned.

She faked it. She fooled me until she did fall far from me in the house. It sounded like a bomb hit the floor. She wasn't pleased when I found her as she was when she planned it.  I wonder if these faked incidents were her attempts to stop the real incidents.

You can be there 24/7 and medical incidents occur. My mom doesn't want to believe the process is out of her hands.

What she does to us is invisible to everyone else, so they don’t see or experience her behaviors.  She reported that home care staff told her they wished all their client visits were as easy as her. It appears she cons them. They don’t experience her neediness like we do. They don’t experience the “Borderline PD”.  

Three weeks of not having a usual whipping post would make my mom self-combust. I believe someone got the maltreatment and is too professional to complain.  Am sure they see home-bound dementia patients regularly. No difference with bpd shenanigans. Unless they told you themselves, I'd take her glowing report with a grain of salt.  I bet your mom is guilt tripping you for taking a vacation while ensuring she continues aging in place.  

Our system is public. About 2 years ago, I disclosed everything and shared so many examples.  Nothing came of it. Who do they believe?  Me or their staff? Their staff see an old lady who can occasionally be difficult or noncompliant, but is not incompetent.  

She is a master manipulator.

This happened to me in the US with a private health system. Too many frail 80+ year olds acting out and regressing. My mom was hospitalized for 2 weeks in 2020 and no one could visit due to COVID. The nurses were under much pressure and I was told how incorrigible my mother was every day I called. They were angry with raised voices.  Finally the nurses said something.

She was released and nothing came of it.

Methuen, the only thing I can think of to relieve your burden is giving a foreign nursing student free room and board in your mother's house in exchange for caring for mom. I don't know if that possible.

Our moms are what they are. Nothing will change with their disordered behavior. Being kind, being reasonable, being strict, being tough have no effect.

[TelHill]

I forgot to add set strong, consistent boundaries and be strong and consistent with self care. I didn't practice those with dBPD mom and felt my life was over.

[Notwendy]

This happened to me in the US with a private health system. Too many frail 80+ year olds acting out and regressing. My mom was hospitalized for 2 weeks in 2020 and no one could visit due to COVID. The nurses were under much pressure and I was told how incorrigible my mother was every day I called. They were angry with raised voices.  Finally the nurses said something.

She was released and nothing came of it.

Methuen, the only thing I can think of to relieve your burden is giving a foreign nursing student free room and board in your mother's house in exchange for caring for mom. I don't know if that possible.

Our moms are what they are. Nothing will change with their disordered behavior. Being kind, being reasonable, being strict, being tough have no effect.

The US system is limited too. One on one assistance and nursing home care is very costly. One reason my mother's spending is so much is that she prefers one on one care and uses it excessively. It's her money to do what she chooses with but she has overdone this rather than use it only when needed.

Yet, emotionally, leaving her alone is similar to leaving a small child alone. She's an adult in some ways and emotionally she isn't. The problem is there's no niche for someone who still has her faculties and needs that much supervision. Most elderly in this situation have some kind of condition that affect their cognition. There is Medicaid assistance but she's not in the categories to qualify for that.

The legal system protects the elderly from being taken advantage of and preserves their freedom. In general, this is a good thing. Legally, I have no way of controlling my mother or her decisions. If I took this to court, the judge would assume I am taking advantage of her. I am glad these protections are in place because people have taken advantage of her but there's no way to differentiate those of us who don't do that from someone who would.

The idea of someone living with her was considered when she was in her home. The problem is, no student would have time to go to class or do homework because she'd need them there to assist her. It would be a difficult situation for them.

[TelHill]

Notwendy,

No one could foresee advances in medicine enabling people to live longer.  I never expected my parents to live this long. I wish some of those advancements included strengthening bodies and increasing lost cognition.

Warning - rant ahead :  
It's galling to give time and effort to your lifelong tormentor. Then, I have to deal with cultural expectations of being a woman: dropping all to care for mom and brother/father expecting me to massage their egos. Have been pressured by FOO to sell my house to move in with my parents. The expectation of indentured servitude never ends with them.

I will help out with a few hours service a few times per month but never caregive like I did from 2018-2020.  

[livednlearned]

 She saw the geriatrician in early June and put on a stellar performance where he even remarked that “she was doing better than he expected “.

This resonates with something we experienced in our family.

My mother has epilepsy and periodically has her driver's license taken away after seizures. Lately, this meant she was a hundred percent dependent on my father since many of her friends have either died or no longer drive unless it's necessary. My mother has a history of shoplifting and I have this suspicion that she found it harder to do this with my father hovering around waiting for her.

When she went to test for her license, we were shocked to learn she passed. She is so cognitively ... not there. A lifetime being a waif has not sharpened her faculties. One of her knees doesn't work. Years ago she was driving a golf cart and hit the gas instead of the brakes and crashed into her friend's husband, breaking his ankle. Yet she managed to convince people she was capable of driving? I was floored.

We tried to get her acclimated to a car with assisted driving that she claims is "too scary." Being the center of a lot of fuss is heaven to her which, fine. Whatever. But when she's the center of attention she is focused on her performance and not on what people are saying, which is that she's a danger to pedestrians and other drivers. All that matters is everyone is paying attention to her, whether that attention is negative or positive. I find it infuriating and have to take deep breaths and step away.

She's a danger to herself and to others but to her she is cute.

Methuen, I have the luxury of living 3 hours away and my father enjoys having control over her, which is a blessing I never expected. H and I moved closer to be in the same time zone so I could help out within limits but my father has stepped into this role with gusto. On the surface it is good for me but it's hard to watch that relationship because it's so dysfunctional.

There is less pressure on me than on you so I feel for you. I think I have also arrived at a specific place in my heart based on the violence my mother permitted at my expense. If she were suffering, I would of course help and try to do the right thing. However, if she is suffering and my brother of father intervenes in a way that strikes me as misguided, I will not advocate for her. A lifetime of being in this family has taught me to stay in my lane.

My husband is a physician and I've instructed him to not get involved because they mistreat him and take advantage of him. They never thank him and quote Google back to him like they know more based on a 10 minute search. He has done things for my mother only to have her turn around and tell him he's the reason her hair is falling out after he recommended talking to one of her specialists about a medication that might have fewer side effects than one she was complaining about. My husband explained hair loss is a side effect listed on an untold number of medications and usually what causes hair loss is natural aging processes. She continues to blame him. I'm still trying to figure out how to navigate this.

Apologies for the digression  .

What I am wondering is whether there are ways you can enlist your long-time family friends to your cause in a way that subverts the social mores placed on you. Since health care is a mess there and others are aware of the system-wide problems, what would happen if you asked them what they might suggest would work when you take your next trip? Can they help assist you in creating social pressure to get your mother in step with your very reasonable plans? I'm thinking specifically about the 3-week trip so that you have less stress even before you go. Would your mother enjoy that kind of attention if it comes from friends?

When my mother was talking about driving again (waiting for the one year driving ban mark to pass), I talked to several of her friends' about whether they had gone through the driving test in their 80s. It was under the guise of being curious, and comparing it to the way things work where I live. It opened up discussion about my mother's incompetence as a driver and strong opinions that she should not drive even if she passed, plus complaints about how anyone can get a license, and how my mother's seizures have worsened and it's a matter of time before she has another. All her friends know about the golf cart incident and while no one mentioned it directly, it was clear what they meant when they said things like, "Next time it might not be a broken bone."

My father mentioned a few weeks ago that several of her friends offered to help with driving. He said they worry about her on the road, and he was uncertain why they are offering to help now after he's been driving her around for a year. I suspect it's because I talked to them but there's no trace. It could be they just worry (about their own safety on the road if she's driving).

As I write this, I feel like it's too simple  I know these situations are so complex and the details matter. Sometimes people suggest things and it makes me feel frustrated because what I really want is for the whole problem to go away. I hope you can find some relief in the next months as you prepare for this next wonderful trip. I try to stay optimistic and hope for unexpected good things to happen, too.

Maybe your mother will find a boyfriend who can take her off your hands 

[TelHill]

All her friends know about the golf cart incident and while no one mentioned it directly, it was clear what they meant when they said things like, "Next time it might not be a broken bone."

Thanks livednlearned for your post. It's amazing how messed up our families are although it's one person with BPD. My dBPD mom was given a short leash by dad - no work outside the home and no driving. Mom is physically aggressive and would have been arrested if allowed off the leash.

The point about it being worse did happen to my mother. She had poor balance and refused to undergo Physical Therapy to help regain balance. She walked where she wanted at any time. During the last six years she broke her shoulder, her hip, her lower leg, her collarbone and her foot. She still walked where she wanted to and fell many times despite warnings and all these bone breaks.  I went to doctor appointments with her and never sugar coated her physical issues. We watched her, forced her to use a walker, chided her after each fall.

She broke her other hip this March and this  did her in almost. She is alive but can't walk unattended in the house. She cannot go outside any longer.  She doesn't try because she knows she will die the next time. She didn't have to be disabled but she needed her freedom to do as she pleased.

Maybe your mother will find a boyfriend who can take her off your hands 

Plenty of potential boyfriends with diminished cognitive abilities who may not notice her problems. Seriously, as lnl says there are ways to maneuver your ability to go on a vacation.  For me, good girl training has been entrenched in my marrow. It's taken me years to break off small pieces of it.  With each piece gone the path ahead is clearer. Don't know if that's true for you, Methuen. Maybe not, but it might be helpful for those reading who don't post.

[Tangled mangled]

The Good girl training

[TelHill]

I realized a few years ago that the Good Girl Police didn't exist. It sure felt like it.  I couldn't see it earlier because of the FOG.

[Tangled mangled]

I realized a few years ago that the Good Girl Police didn't exist. It sure felt like it.  I couldn't see it earlier because of the FOG.

My mum is the good girl police though.

In my experience, the good girl training was more like how to be a good scapegoat— take the abuse quietly.

I typed a whole response previously, that got deleted by my phone.

[Notwendy]

I realized a few years ago that the Good Girl Police didn't exist. It sure felt like it.  I couldn't see it earlier because of the FOG.

My mother even uses the term "good girl". Good girl training is being a good scapegoat and also doing things for her and being good- obeying. She expects obedience. If she asks you to do something, it needs to be done immediately.

Transgressions of any kind- not obeying, leaving a toy out, could be considered as if they were the crime of the century. If my mother compliments me, I cringe- as her mood could change in an instant.