What to do about BPD envy?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I will include my PD gc brother with my bpd mother. They're both hermits and are not comfortable connecting with people. Put downs and general unhappiness from them when I achieve something has been the norm from these two.  I wear my most unattractive clothing and no makeup when I see them. I carry this fear of their toxic envy with me more than I realize.

I feel bad for my brother because his PD has prevented him from reaching some of the material and professional goals I have in my life.  

I know I can't make them change. I know I have to live with it and do more healing on my end.  I can't erase where I went to college or career and economic goals I've reached from their memories.

Tips anyone has about reframing this issue in my mind are appreciated.

[TelHill]

I will include my PD gc brother with my bpd mother. They're both hermits and are not comfortable connecting with people. Put downs and general unhappiness from them when I achieve something has been the norm from these two.  I wear my most unattractive clothing and no makeup when I see them. I carry this fear of their toxic envy with me more than I realize.

I feel bad for my brother because his PD has prevented him from reaching some of the material and professional goals I have in my life.  

I know I can't make them change. I know I have to live with it and do more healing on my end.  I can't erase where I went to college or career and economic goals I've reached from their memories.

Tips anyone has about reframing this issue in my mind are appreciated.

[Methuen]

Tips for reframing?

I wish I knew.

"Accept" that it is what it is, and whatever led them to this point of their life is out of our control...

Their choices, their life, their consequences...

Their happiness is not our responsibility.  We can only be responsible for ourselves...

?

Their nitpicking and "remarks" to make us feel guilty are not acts of loving kindness.  Why do they want us to feel bad...?  Who does that to someone they love?

That's all I've got right now.  More time needed for “thinking “.

[zachira]

It sounds like you are in as they say in Spanish, in a one way street without an exit. I have found that as I have become more comfortable in my own skin, that my disordered family members have become more abusive. I learned my lesson a couple of years ago, when I went to a family party, where I was abused by another relative the whole evening with nobody standing up for me, after this relative raged at me about how a friend of his showed up at his party singing my praises because I had helped her when she had an accident on a country road. It seems that the envy can only escalate as you continue to grow and become more of a person in your own right. You cannot contain the pathological envy of you by your mother and brother, just limit your exposure to it both physically and emotionally. What boundaries do you think would help?

[MoFamliyMoProbs]

I have a similar situation with my brother in law (Dependent PD) and mother in law (uBPD and Histrionic PD). DPD brother in law is definitely a hermit (though DPD mom in law is the opposite). When something is going well in our lives they almost don't even register it, but if something bad is going on they almost seem excited.

I'm sure being around this isn't helping your self esteem and self worth. I bet it can feel like dragging along a big bummer ball-and-chain.

As far as your brother goes, it is good to have empathy. But it's also hard to not think that your mother designed her relationship with your brother to work this way: so she would always have a hermit partner to be with her. I know I feel this way about DPD brother in law. Mom and son are a perfect duo for eachother and it's a bummer he got sucked into her system. But he probably never even had a chance. You have to be able to see what your life can be outside the parental system first to even see what a warped reality you grew up in.

I've looked at it like the two of them have deferred brain maintenance that they are never going to do. They seem to be terrified of change or getting help because they are comfortable in the status quo. But the status quo is constantly changing around them. Our therapist put it in a nicer way: think of them as having a degenerative disorder.

Would you even want to erase those memories if you could? It doesn't sound like you can be much of yourself around them too. It sounds like you would just inadvertently be having a "limited contact" relationship or "grey rock" approach (being about as interesting as a grey rock on the outside to them). So maybe you can find empowerment in those approaches? If you are making that a conscious choice, it is something you CAN control.

Finally, if it helps, someone else in the forum shared the "Man on the Bridge" fable by Edwin Friedman and my spouse and I got a lot out of reading it. Maybe you would too? I can post it again if you'd can't find the fable, but it's usually easily Google-able.

Hopefully some of that helps!

[EyesUp]

Sometimes we think about "radical acceptance."

I initially understood this to mean that I had to accept my pwBPD would not change, and everything that implies.

However, eventually, I came to understand that this could also mean that I could accept than I can change, e.g.,

- accept things about myself that were previously unknown or unacceptable, e.g., why I seek approval from others or why I repeat the rescuer role or why I avoid certain situations, etc.
- enforce boundaries
- prioritize my health and wellbeing
- accept the consequences of certain actions (or inactions) and stop avoiding some things...

The upside of this reframing, of sorts, is that I'm far less concerned about what others may or may not think. Instead of approval (or walking on eggshells), I'm simply going about my business.

Here's an analogy:  When I was going through my divorce, my therapist used to constantly ask:  "what are you doing for yourself?"  When the divorce was finalized I found I had more time to do things that I enjoy - in some cases, things I had neglected for years - hobbies, friends, family, places - and returning to those things helped to shift my attention in new positive and productive directions.

It was not a matter of becoming selfish or ego-centric - it was more like rebalancing where I  placed focus and attention on a moment-to-moment basis.  It's not really surprising to find that putting more attention on things I enjoy and value (instead of things I don't) is its own reward, and pays dividends.

In conclusion:  It sounds like you've achieved some good things.  Does this bring you some satisfaction?  If yes, then what difference does it truly make what anyone else thinks? 

[Methuen]

Tips anyone has about reframing this issue in my mind are appreciated.

How about this?  Take inspiration from Marsha Linehan.  Self- declared BPD who was instsitutionized up until age 18 (rather brutally IMHO) but went on to create DBT, used to treat BPD. Even if you are familiar with her story, a refresh is inspiring - at least it is for me.

It points to the power of every individual to find their own way to help themselves - including those with BPD.

Translation: your brother has to find his own way out of this.  So you do not need to hide behind your own success.

Reframe?  Embrace your own success and own it with humility.  You are a role model.  

[TelHill]

Thanks for the smart and helpful responses.  I'll have opportunities to practice these with them.

Envy is something I fear from others outside my FOO and tend to self-isolate. The suggestions should help with getting out of the house when I feel like isolating.  I can never seem to shake this wanting to self-isolate to protect myself after years of therapy.

Again, these will suggestions will be helpful.

[MoFamliyMoProbs]

Envy is something I fear from others outside my FOO and tend to self-isolate. The suggestions should help with getting out of the house when I feel like isolating.  I can never seem to shake this wanting to self-isolate to protect myself after years of therapy.

I also tend to self isolate when I encounter difficult situations too. My therapist gave me an exercise to do that helped me. Maybe it could help you too? You could have your therapist do this with you too.

When you feel like the timing is right or you feel yourself being pulled towards isolating, find a safe spot and close your eyes. Imagine your inner child: what age are they? what are they wearing? how old are they? what are they doing?
When you are ready, sit them down next to you. Give them a big hug and tell them, "thank you for protecting me all these years." The behaviors they/you learned literally protected you in that dysfunctional family system. The next step is to then pull from your place of safety, strength, empowerment (and all that you've learned over the years after being out of that dysfunctional system). When you are ready, tell them you know they will always be with you, but you don't need them anymore. You have better coping skills now as an adult to be able to protect yourself. When you are ready to leave the space, open your eyes and see how you feel.

In the future, whenever you feel yourself being pulled again towards isolation/protecting yourself you can remember back to this moment. Remember to thank your inner child, and let them know you've got it from here. 

[TelHill]

Thanks, MoFamily. That's a useful tool and one I just used!

[Notwendy]

I tend to self isolate too. From ACA groups, I see that this is common for adult children who grow up in disordered families. While it's not good to do this in excess, I also think maybe we need to do some of it so we can have moments of feeling "safe".  I find that I need some "alone time" even with just my H at home.

The hiding information from BPD mother- I think all parents want to have proud things to say about their kids but for BPD mother it's something she seems to use- it's hard to explain but it feels creepy. For me it's a privacy thing- I don't want to share information about what I am doing with her.

I think about the Snow White story- mirror mirror on the wall- who is the fairest- and that would be my mother's position in the family- she always dresses in nice clothing. I will dress up if the occasion fits it- but otherwise, I prefer comfortable clothes. So when I visit, she's dressed more nicely than I am. But the Snow White story has a universal aspect of it. When a daughter becomes an adolescent- the mother begins to experience some physical signs of aging - like a few wrinkles- and people begin to notice the daughter. I wonder if perhaps we learned to play this down. Maybe this is the envy you experienced?

I don't think there's any envy on my mother's part. I think she feels superior to me. Our family structure was focused on her.

[Methuen]

I tend to self isolate too. From ACA groups, I see that this is common for adult children who grow up in disordered families. While it's not good to do this in excess, I also think maybe we need to do some of it so we can have moments of feeling "safe".  I find that I need some "alone time" even with just my H at home.

Huh.  I guess I probably do this too.  But I’ve never thought of it as self isolating until this moment.  I only do it with friends who have some connection to my mom. 

I think NW is right, we do it to feel safe.  Maybe that’s not so bad, unless we do it to an extreme.  Then we need some help. 

Which zone do you think you are in Telhill?

[TelHill]

I tend to self isolate too. From ACA groups, I see that this is common for adult children who grow up in disordered families. While it's not good to do this in excess, I also think maybe we need to do some of it so we can have moments of feeling "safe".  I find that I need some "alone time" even with just my H at home.

I would be fine with one or two social get togethers a week. That's my limit for now. Thanks for bringing up the observation that it might be a help for those of us from a disordered FOO to isolate to feel safe. I feel guilty like something is wrong with me wanting to stay home. I need moments of feeling safe and recharging. I'm introverted so there's a natural part of me that has a limit to being social. It makes me very happy that you brought it up.

The hiding information from BPD mother- I think all parents want to have proud things to say about their kids but for BPD mother it's something she seems to use- it's hard to explain but it feels creepy. For me it's a privacy thing- I don't want to share information about what I am doing with her.

My mom has not said much about my life to people in our extended family unless it's to one-up them.  I keep a lid on most items because as with your mom she'll find a way to use the information against me.

I think about the Snow White story- mirror mirror on the wall- who is the fairest- and that would be my mother's position in the family- she always dresses in nice clothing. I will dress up if the occasion fits it- but otherwise, I prefer comfortable clothes. So when I visit, she's dressed more nicely than I am. But the Snow White story has a universal aspect of it. When a daughter becomes an adolescent- the mother begins to experience some physical signs of aging - like a few wrinkles- and people begin to notice the daughter. I wonder if perhaps we learned to play this down. Maybe this is the envy you experienced?

I don't think there's any envy on my mother's part. I think she feels superior to me. Our family structure was focused on her.

My mother is aggressive with her criticisms of me.  It doesn't sound like your mom showed doubt about her superiority. Maybe that's why my mom acted physically and verbally aggressive all my life.  She felt her superiority slipping constantly.  She would rage at me when I wanted to help her with her chores (she had to be superior to me even when I was five) or if some girl invited me to her house when I began grade school. Am sure she was jealous during these times at all stages of my life including adolescence.  The first time I could feel her rage as envy as a teen I think dressing down was/is a tangible way to keep safe which I could control.

My FOO also revolved around my mother.  The rest of us were a moon to her almighty planet.

Huh.  I guess I probably do this too.  But I’ve never thought of it as self isolating until this moment.  I only do it with friends who have some connection to my mom.  

I think NW is right, we do it to feel safe.  Maybe that’s not so bad, unless we do it to an extreme.  Then we need some help.  

Which zone do you think you are in Telhill?

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.  COVID and stay at home put a damper on socialization. I was making some headway after my divorce and dropping the caregiving of BPD mom before the pandemic. I do go out at least once daily but I don't talk to anyone.  

I have to make an effort again. I think a social event (exercise class or a group hike with strangers)  followed by some self isolation might be a step in the right direction.   Therapists I've seen do not seem to understand the trauma I've had surrounding the making of female friends.

This has been the focus of my therapy for the last 40 years. I've tried really, really hard and it's disappointing. I think I held onto unsuitable therapists for too long which is part of the problem.

The last one had some personal issues which were triggered by my upbringing. I could see it but was afraid or indecisive about leaving.  She would tell me what to do even telling me which novels to read. If I chose one I wanted (usually old classics like Flannery O'Connor or John Steinbeck) she would repeat the works of fiction she wanted me to read.  That's really off putting. I mean, why is this in therapy?

My fallback most of my life was to date and have a long term relationship with a man.  It was easier to do that.  The idea of taking breaks to stay safe/recharge is a good one.

[Notwendy]

I would be fine with one or two social get togethers a week. That's my limit for now.

We don't even do that. For both my H and I, we get social contact at work. At home, we eat dinner, Netflix. Covid restrictions also contributed to this pattern of staying home.

I recall when this kind of thing began. I had friends in high school- close friends and people would describe me as outgoing, but in my senior year of high school, I seemed to become more introverted with a closer circle of friends. Even as of today - these are people I feel the safest around. I don't see them socially- they live at  a distance but I speak to them once in a while.

Adding to the issue is that- my H self isolates more than I do. When we first got together, he also had a friend group but I realize that school is a natural environment for that. Before marriage, I had both male and female friends and then the natural course of things is people pairing off and then having families. My friend group then began to be with parents of my kids' friends. What is odd is that we don't socialize as a couple with other couples. I tried to be more social but dragging my reluctant H out was not enjoyable. In a way, I have defaulted to his social introversion.

I believe H has his own childhood FOO issues but he handles them a different way- doesn't get introspective. Sometimes he will talk about his childhood but his parents were more stable in their functioning than mine. My BPD mother emotionally acted out- raging, screaming. In his family, they went about their ways in silence- and with passive aggression- except for one emotion, his father's anger and his mother co-dependently managed that. I think H learned to hide too. FIL was raised in dysfunction and yet, he did better than that with his own family.

I understand the difficulty with making female friends. I recall wondering why I felt "different" from other girls in middle school and just didn't know why. I didn't have their confidence. And I was supposed to hide what was what was going on in my family.  I never questioned my gender identity or orientation, but I think the role model for being female was confusing.

BPD mother was the only "female" in the family- more like the queen bee and the rest of us were the drones. We didn't have mother-daughter time together doing "girl" things. My parent bond was with Dad and we shared common interests. I did have female role models in his family and with the mothers of my friends. Speaking of envy- I am a bit envious of the friends who do have a group of women friends.

[Notwendy]

This thread got me thinking- where is the "envy" from BPD mother? If she's the superior  in the family, what, if anything, could she envy? I think it's that I could connect with my father in his interests. This went both ways though because he was the one who did the parenting- so he would not have done some typical female gender role activities so we did things he was interested in- like the movies museum- BPD mother was not interested in these things.

I think this was a sticking point for BPD mother. I connected with Dad over mutual interests that she wasn't interested in. She controlled our communication- listened in on phone calls, read emails. Maybe this is why she didn't let me have some of his possessions at first after he passed away. These were sentimental to me because of shared interests. But there was no question about who was my father's priority. It has always been her.

Perhaps this is one reason making connections with female friends is more of a challenge, but marriage/culture limits friendships with males. I have enjoyed working with people of both sexes on projects at work but these aren't friendships- after work, we go home to our families. Maybe this is the kind of connection that feels more safe.

[zachira]

Notwendy,
When I read your posts and some other members with a BPD mother, I often think that part of how badly she treats her children, mostly daughters, has to do with how jealous she is of all the fine qualities you have, that make you likeable and enjoyable to be around. My aunt was very jealous of her daughter who had one of the most likeable personalities I have ever experienced whereas her mother had no friends, the daughter was very popular in the community, including having a building named after her.

[TelHill]

We don't even do that. For both my H and I, we get social contact at work. At home, we eat dinner, Netflix. Covid restrictions also contributed to this pattern of staying home.

I work part time so I have more time. Am also counting Zoom meetings, mostly book clubs, as a social gathering.

I recall when this kind of thing began. I had friends in high school- close friends and people would describe me as outgoing, but in my senior year of high school, I seemed to become more introverted with a closer circle of friends. Even as of today - these are people I feel the safest around. I don't see them socially- they live at  a distance but I speak to them once in a while.

I was I think numb when at school starting at the beginning. Kids paid attention to me but I'd never approach another little girl to be my friend. My mom was 32 when I was born and would have been 37 when I began school. She also was isolated since she had left her home country a year before my birth and had no female relatives close by except one who was disordered. She harassed my parents. Very weird lady. I think that brought my mother to a breaking point because she went to the hospital overnight for nerves when I was 4.  She came from a small village where everyone knew everyone else. It was no nirvana as there were many disordered troublemakers who lived there.  But her parents and other relatives would have been close by instead of 6000 miles away.

So just me & her most of the time in the house. I wonder if bpd symptoms worsen with age and from lack of a social life?  Her behavior was notably unusual.  

Adding to the issue is that- my H self isolates more than I do. When we first got together, he also had a friend group but I realize that school is a natural environment for that. Before marriage, I had both male and female friends and then the natural course of things is people pairing off and then having families. My friend group then began to be with parents of my kids' friends. What is odd is that we don't socialize as a couple with other couples. I tried to be more social but dragging my reluctant H out was not enjoyable. In a way, I have defaulted to his social introversion.

I believe H has his own childhood FOO issues but he handles them a different way- doesn't get introspective. Sometimes he will talk about his childhood but his parents were more stable in their functioning than mine. My BPD mother emotionally acted out- raging, screaming. In his family, they went about their ways in silence- and with passive aggression- except for one emotion, his father's anger and his mother co-dependently managed that. I think H learned to hide too. FIL was raised in dysfunction and yet, he did better than that with his own family.

I understand your H is not social that way.  It's tough when you want to have some couples as friends.

 That's something I wanted when I was married and my then h was not a good person. He went out on his own.  It was a long marriage and was very disappointing.  

I understand the difficulty with making female friends. I recall wondering why I felt "different" from other girls in middle school and just didn't know why. I didn't have their confidence. And I was supposed to hide what was what was going on in my family.  I never questioned my gender identity or orientation, but I think the role model for being female was confusing.

I felt different too though I wasn't confused about gender identity or orientation either.  I was a serious kid no doubt having to be a mom to my own mother.  My parents weren't Americans and had an accent. There were some bullies in my class who scared me. I managed to make a few girlfriends but mom would never allow me to go over to their house when I was invited. God forbid they come to my house. I got dropped or yelled at for not liking them.

I felt more and more different as I went on in school because I was kind of logical in my thinking and not outgoing or putting boys on a pedestal. I felt in my bones I couldn't though felt ashamed why I couldn't act like that.  I took a Myers Briggs test in my mid 20s and I tested as INTJ. I didn't like it as it didn't seem too feminine but I grew to accept and like being me.

BPD mother was the only "female" in the family- more like the queen bee and the rest of us were the drones. We didn't have mother-daughter time together doing "girl" things. My parent bond was with Dad and we shared common interests. I did have female role models in his family and with the mothers of my friends. Speaking of envy- I am a bit envious of the friends who do have a group of women friends.

I used to read biographies of famous women like Eleanor Roosevelt, Helen Keller, Marie Curie, Joan of Arc. I was happy to know about them. I also read supermarket kid fiction about Barbie and her friends. I probably chose some kind of mixture of both as a role model. I don't know. I love makeup and dressing up, just not around my mom.

I wish I had female friends. It's not fair that mom's abuse can't be easily corrected.

Notwendy, It's interesting how you related to your dad more than mother. I did too. Our personalities are similar though I share interests and skills with both parents.  My father was allowed to have friends growing up in the same village my mother did. My mom was too though I think her difficult personality didn't attract many little girls from what I can tell. She is domineering and cunning.  

My mother is one of 9 kids and she had a fraternal female twin who passed away a few years ago.  She and her twin were one of the younger kids.  She and the youngest child are the only ones left. What's weird is she is one of six sisters. You'd think she would understand the power of female friendships. But no. Her twin sister had many friends as does her younger brother. Her twin and her brother defer/deferred to her and were either in awe of her or afraid of her.  

[Notwendy]

So just me & her most of the time in the house. I wonder if bpd symptoms worsen with age and from lack of a social life?  Her behavior was notably unusual.  

I felt more and more different as I went on in school because I was kind of logical in my thinking and not outgoing or putting boys on a pedestal.
- felt ashamed why I couldn't act like that.  

I love makeup and dressing up, just not around my mom.

Interesting as I recall in middle school where the girls became interested in boys. I had the usual crushes too- some on the pop stars/teen idols like girls that age do- but I knew those weren't real - I just thought some of them were "cute" guys and also maybe a boy in my class- but I didn't have the confidence to talk to them. I was intimidated at the idea of that. It seemed that the other girls were not intimidated about talking to boys. I also was logical about this.

I wonder if your reluctance to wear make up in front of your mother is a sort of protective thing-  thinking of the Snow White analogy- it's a way to stay out of that dynamic.

[Methuen]

This is an interesting thread.

So just me & her most of the time in the house. I wonder if bpd symptoms worsen with age and from lack of a social life?  Her behavior was notably unusual.  

Maybe.  In my mom’s case, her symptoms ballooned with age, and this ballooning coincided with my father’s illness and passing.  My theory is that her bpd was triggered by this loss.  It was abandonment again.  The first abandonment was when her mother died when she was 14, and she was stuck with a monster of a father. Perhaps your mom’s loss Telhill was the loss of her village?  And culture?  That she spent a night in hospital when you were 4 for a nervous issue is interesting.  My mom’s nervous issue now at 87 is so intense that if I were like her in terms of nerves, I too would probably be in hospital, but for mom, her nervous issue is so normal, she just carries on, and on and on and on.  She is just so disordered that I can’t handle being around her for any length of time. Truthfully, I don’t think she likes me either.  I think I probably bother her but I don’t understand it. Maybe it’s my lack of nervous issue she can’t handle.  Maybe it’s the envy you mentioned in the title of this thread. I don’t know what it is.  Her and I are just oil and water.

In high school I had no interest in boys.  I think this was push back on my part.  In elementary school, I would come home and tell her stories about my day which included both boys and girls.  Instead of being a normal mom and listening and building a trusting relationship with me, she would cross boundaries and tease me mercilessly about boys starting in gr 4.  I hated it.  It was so uncomfortable. Icky and sick.  She had no clue. She was like the taunting mean girl but she was my mother. I think I just learned to avoid interest in boys to survive.  My first interest wasn’t until gr 12, and I shared as little as possible with her.   I didn’t really know how to navigate a relationship because I had just avoided it for so long .

As for makeup and dressing, I avoided drawing attention to myself. Never used makeup, and mosly casual comfort clothes or appropriate professional dress, but simple. No jewelry.  She used jewelry as a reward or extrinsic motivator when I was small and she wanted me to achieve something.  I hated that too, and resented the feeling of having to wear the jewelry she gave me.  If I didn’t, she would criticize me or her feelings would be hurt. I always had to do and be what she wanted, rather than being given the space to be myself. It felt coercive or controlling.  Dressing and appearance was very important to her.  When she met someone, she judged how nice a person they were based on how skinny they were and how nice they dressed.  

I’ve always been one to avoid attention, even opting out of my own retirement party which was hosted by a professional organization. I didn’t see the point of being recognized by people I mostly didn’t know.  I appreciated the small actions of a few close friends instead. . I’ve just never been comfortable with being the center of attention.  Interesting, as my mother always needed to be the grand center of attention.    I can acknowledge and build up other people’s successes, but kind of stay in the background when it comes to my own .  Although I do like to be valued at work with my superiors. I  don’t need attention, I just want to feel valued and respected for my work.  I don’t like being around people who I see as dysfunctional, especially if it’s a superior or boss.  I am already stuck with one of those in my personal life, and am thankful I am able to have options to move around in my employment now since I have retuned to work from retirement to avoid the obligation of being mom’s “caretaker”.  Where I am now is wonderful.  We are a good team.

My only purpose in her life is to take care of all mom’s needs, and although I tried valiantly for almost 60 years, I hit the wall, and my limit. I just can’t manage her dysfunction anymore, and also have issues with the systems that hold me responsible for being her caretaker.  While I’ve never been physically abused, the emotional stuff feels over the top.  I feel like the chicken who is somehow held responsible for the “stalking fox’s well-being”, if that makes sense.  

I still see her at least once a week and try to fo nice things, but those visits leave me reeling.  

The cumulative affects of her behavior over a lifetime has been “too much”.  I’ve tried, but failed.  That’s what it feels like. 

So, to get back to bpd envy Telhill, I think we all find our own ways to survive.  As long as you aren’t a hermit (and it does not sound like you are anything like a hermit since you work, and do bookclub, and hiking clubs etc), then I think doing what makes you comfortable is ok as long as it’s healthy and you’re happy.  Do you feel like something is missing? 

[TelHill]

Interesting as I recall in middle school where the girls became interested in boys. I had the usual crushes too- some on the pop stars/teen idols like girls that age do- but I knew those weren't real - I just thought some of them were "cute" guys and also maybe a boy in my class- but I didn't have the confidence to talk to them. I was intimidated at the idea of that. It seemed that the other girls were not intimidated about talking to boys. I also was logical about this.

I wonder if your reluctance to wear make up in front of your mother is a sort of protective thing-  thinking of the Snow White analogy- it's a way to stay out of that dynamic.

Yes, I had crushes of pop and TV stars too. I didn't approach boys in middle school either. If someone approached me, I wouldn't pay attention until they really made it known they liked me. Not because I was playing hard to get, I was afraid of taking the next step and felt unmoored. I wonder if this is what made me susceptible to love bombing as an adult?

My mom’s nervous issue now at 87 is so intense that if I were like her in terms of nerves, I too would probably be in hospital, but for mom, her nervous issue is so normal, she just carries on, and on and on and on.  She is just so disordered that I can’t handle being around her for any length of time. Truthfully, I don’t think she likes me either.  I think I probably bother her but I don’t understand it. Maybe it’s my lack of nervous issue she can’t handle.  Maybe it’s the envy you mentioned in the title of this thread. I don’t know what it is.  Her and I are just oil and water.

My dBPD mom is the same way - carrying on and on - despite yelling and being generally sadistic.  She is so hostile and questions why I do what I do, it feels like envy.  She is bossy and likes to dole out tasks to me. She's ultra competitive.  Hers is always better. If I have something she wants, she has to have it too.  Or if truly out of her reach, like buying her own car, my brother's car is always better.  It could be internalized bias against other women.

My mom was temporarily in a nursing home after her hospital stay. In the US, the elderly usually stay for a month in these homes because the government health insurance for all those age 65 and over pays 100% of the cost.

I came to visit her a bit before visiting hours. I was shocked at how my hermit mother was friendly to these young immigrant men/student visas from Africa and Asia. She was greeting them warmly. She even was kissing the hands of one who said to me she's my mama too. She's so nice. He was 20 years old!  It was the oddest thing I had seen her do.

She was horrible to the female staff. She would yell or ignore what they wanted her to do. They were so nice and helpful.  It's horrible but she hit (!) one of the female nursing aides when I was there. I made her apologize to the nurse. I wanted mom to know it was wrong so she wouldn't be expelled from the home.

I've always been one to avoid attention, even opting out of my own retirement party which was hosted by a professional organization. I didn’t see the point of being recognized by people I mostly didn’t know.  I appreciated the small actions of a few close friends instead. . I’ve just never been comfortable with being the center of attention.  Interesting, as my mother always needed to be the grand center of attention.   

Same here. I'd dread my birthday at work or being singled out for an achievement. I've been very happy when the whole team was recognized for a group project.  It feels much better!

My only purpose in her life is to take care of all mom’s needs, and although I tried valiantly for almost 60 years, I hit the wall, and my limit. I just can’t manage her dysfunction anymore, and also have issues with the systems that hold me responsible for being her caretaker.  While I’ve never been physically abused, the emotional stuff feels over the top.  I feel like the chicken who is somehow held responsible for the “stalking fox’s well-being”, if that makes sense. 

That's an apt observation of the chicken being responsible for the fox stalking them.  It doesn't feel like you are with a human. Mom feels like an animal planning to devour the daughter to remain alive.

Who looked to our mothers and said they weren't adequate care givers to us? No one.

The cumulative affects of her behavior over a lifetime has been “too much”.  I’ve tried, but failed.  That’s what it feels like.

I feel the same way.  Am burned out permanently by her, even once a week or once every two weeks.

[Notwendy]

We seem to have common characteristics- one is that at adolescence- we have the typical attraction "crushes" of that age group but we are somehow reluctant when it comes to "dating" actual people and this step is behind our peers. We also don't like to call attention to ourselves, tend to dress in that manner as well.

I can't pinpoint the reason why and it's probably a combination. We didn't have emotionally healthy role models for relationships.

Then there's the lack of self esteem from being criticized, invalidated and our mothers projections. And the insecure attachment. So it was hard to feel secure or confident around people.

But here we are- finished school, competent at work, able to form connections with others. Yes, there are fleas but we overcame the situation as best we can. 

[Methuen]

Then there's the lack of self esteem from being criticized, invalidated and our mothers projections. And the insecure attachment. So it was hard to feel secure or confident around people.

But here we are- finished school, competent at work, able to form connections with others. Yes, there are fleas but we overcame the situation as best we can. 

Love this! Made me laugh!  Also - yay for us!   However, I’m still mindful and sad that many have not been so fortunate, and maybe haven’t experienced our successes. 

Lots of fleas to shake out

[Notwendy]

However, I’m still mindful and sad that many have not been so fortunate, and maybe haven’t experienced our successes.  

Lots of fleas to shake out

Yes, and truly, we are all a work in progress - I think we are so accustomed to criticism and the feeling of "not being enough" for the BPD parent that seeing the progress might be difficult. I agree- it's not comfortable to acknowledge progress when we consider all who are struggling and- so are our parents with BPD- we feel empathy for them.

So just putting a bit of positive reinforcement in the mix too-- for everyone, everywhere.

[TelHill]

Success for me is helping others with BPD parents and getting help from others in the same situation. I used to feel cursed and thought the powers above hated me.  The pain is still there but not as deep as before.

It is nice to have success with a career. But definitely will never mention it to my FOO or other toxic people.

[Notwendy]

Success for me is helping others with BPD parents and getting help from others in the same situation. I used to feel cursed and thought the powers above hated me.  The pain is still there but not as deep as before.

It is nice to have success with a career. But definitely will never mention it to my FOO or other toxic people.

I agree- I think success is personal to everyone- and helping others is a success. Then there's the personal work- learning about boundaries, and so on- which is a work in progress- so each step is a success.