Crises and what’s wrong with me

[formflier]

I’ll keep that in mind — agreeing, FF. It won’t slow him down but maybe over time...

I'm asking others to come along and tweak my point...several things going on lately and I don't seem at top of my game.

Here is my point Ozzie101...

When I read your posts and your responses (such as the quote above)...it's about him/BPD.

When does Ozzie101 get to matter?  When do "taking your ears" away (yes..physically taking them away so you are ignorant of what is said/done) from a dysregulation become the focus...and frankly stay the focus.

Perhaps an example from yesterday:  I took a day of solitude.  Is it possible FFw is mad about it..yep...is it possible she shrugged her shoulders and was like "whatever dude"...yep...did I give even the slightest amount of brain space to her reactions NOPE?

She texted a few times wanting me to do things and I was kind and clear about what I was able to or not able to do.  NO JADE.

She and rest of family went to drive in movie last night and I wished them enjoyment and let them know I would be going to be early (which I did)...and yes the world looks different to me today with sleep.

I'm not the least bit embarrassed or anything about "taking a day off".  I do think I was prudent and thought about what I would say if FFw wants to get into it...but I gave it like 5 minutes of thought and was done with it.  

It was about me and my needs...basic needs like sleep and a clear mind to do some important prep work for my Mom's upcoming medical appointment.  

Imagine going inside my head and what FF thought process was like and then go inside Ozzie's head and imagine that.  (please don't take this as a better or worse thing...it's hopefully using current events as a teaching point)

And...most likely (seriously..the most likely outcome) is that FFw enjoyed the space as well, although she appears more reluctant to voice that kind of thing, compared to me.  (see the "vibe" of Cat's posts)

So...I'm proposing not a tactical change of saying this instead of that...I see a more fundamental change.  Which person in the r/s is taking up the headspace of Ozzie?


Best,

FF

[Dad50]

I concur with you 100%. It seems the same with all of us. We work our butts off so the situation remains "not crazy". That is the metric. if we can just not re-act. If we can just understand. Maybe it will be "not terrible". I don't want a life where my ultimate goal is to work hard so things can just be "not terrible", but that seems to be where we all are. I haven't whatever it is so I can finally choose to leave. I wish I could.

[Ozzie101]

Good, enlightening question, FF. One I’ve sort of picked around the edges of, but haven’t really delved seriously into before. Initial thoughts:

My thoughts and actions revolve mostly around H. Primarily: what can I do to avoid or decrease the chances of an episode? How do I respond to this? How do I approach that? Life seems to exist primarily of keeping him happy. Which I can’t do. Not to mention, most of the things that set him off don’t even involve me in the first place.

In a way, I think my parents’ and grandparents’ relationships helped set the stage. Don’t get me wrong — they have/had great relationships. But my examples were of doing everything together or always putting your partner first. None of them are disordered though so it works differently.

While I do things for myself, there are things I feel the need to hide. Or, if I do those things, I feel anxiety because I know they’re going to come up again later. Particularly if it involves my family.

I need to get away from worrying so much. I need to get back to feeling like I can be myself. I need to stop worrying about his moods and reactions. He will react how he reacts and handle things how he will. But I can’t and shouldn’t let that control my life.

We’ve gotten into a bad pattern. Breaking it won’t be easy.

[formflier]

  Not to mention, most of the things that set him off don’t even involve me in the first place.
 

Doesn't this make it easy...?  Why involve yourself in things that you are not involved in..."stay in your lane".  Right?

Good job chewing on some heavy stuff...

Best,

FF

[formflier]

We’ve gotten into a bad pattern. Breaking it won’t be easy.

I agree it's a bad pattern...I disagree about it not being easy (perhaps there is nuance that it will not "feel" easy).

Here is the thing..how hard is it to leave a cell phone sitting on your desk instead of picking it up?

How hard is it to manage the impulses that drive your hand to reach and pick it up?

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

The things that set him off aren’t me. But his pattern is that those things spin him off into areas that do involve me: my family, my job, etc.

Easy to leave a phone. I guess what I mean is, I don’t really know what’s going to happen. For instance, if I refuse to answer or engage, I don’t know how he’ll respond. For example, if he’s not home and I am, will he come home to continue the barrage in person where I know, from experience, it is not easy to get away.

These are things for me to think through so I’m not caught off-guard without a plan.

I also have to be prepared for the possibility that my shift in behavior and attitude could make things much worse. I’m ok with that, I’m that the status quo can’t continue. But that may not be easy to deal with.

He has major abandonment issues and his big complaint against me is always that I don’t care. My stepping back and not engaging or not answering is likely to add fuel to that fire. Again, I can do that, but it’s still likely to lead to extinction bursts.

[formflier]

What is it about the new home that makes it hard to get away?

Perhaps a new boundary is that any discussion of serious matter gets a pause...everyone goes and gets a drink and meets on porch in 5 minutes.  No questions asked...any bullying...discussion over..period.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

It was hard in the old home. I haven’t had to try in the new home yet because he’s been good about leaving (while I’m at work) when he’s getting worked up so he’s not even here.

In the past, he has blocked me, physically, from leaving the house. Or if I’ve just tried to go to a different room, he’s followed me.

[Cat Familiar]

As you know, blocking you physically is abuse.

I inadvertently addressed this problem a few years ago, and it never occurred again.

My husband is six inches taller than me and outweighs me by about 80 pounds. I’m used to muscling around horses and goats, but I’d be reluctant to do that to a human being. Besides my animals respect me, so usually it doesn’t take much to get them in line. What I’m trying to get across is that I’m not easily intimidated, but size matters.

I don’t remember the details, but he was getting in my way and trying to be physically intimidating. I grabbed a phone and dialed the first two digits of 911, not intending to call. I held my finger over the second 1 and as we argued, I hit the button by mistake.

I hung up quickly, but the dispatcher called back immediately. I tried to explain that we were merely having an argument and I mistakenly dialed. But no, they were going to send officers over.

My husband was beside himself, and with typical BPD thinking, believed he would be arrested and forever more known as an abuser.

I told him I’d explain it to the sheriffs and said that he should stay at the house, while I walked down to the gate.

It’s almost a quarter mile from the house to the gate, so I had plenty of time to think about how I’d explain things.

I kept the gate locked and stepped out toward the road and within a couple of minutes, two sheriffs cars pulled up with four deputies. I told them what had occurred and that I was in no danger, but they spent a long time talking to me, to make sure my story was consistent.

When I returned to the house, my husband announced that our relationship was over and he was likely to be arrested.

It took a few days for him to let go of this incident. I’m sure it ended up in his “reasons why I can’t trust her” column, but he never again tried to be physically intimidating to me back when our relationship was very rocky.

[formflier]

Ozzie,

Did you ever have a conversation or communication with he medical/mental health team?

In a moment when he is "remorseful" or in a neutral mood, I think this issue needs to be addressed..proactively.

When there is a request for "pause" in a conversation...there is a pause (5 min or something)...no questions asked.

You will go get a drink and perhaps fresh air to clear your mind.  No verbal bullying...none.

Any physical attempts to "impose" verbal bullying get a 911 call.  Every time.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

He’s never tried it during a “normal” fight. But I’ve started certain routines to greatly reduce the chances of being “stuck” in the house with him.

When I leave for work, I take my glasses and a couple of other single-copy necessities. I have a bag in my trunk with travel toiletries and a change of clothes.

Since we talk or text in the afternoon, I can get a reading for the situation at home. If he’s “off,” I’ll go to a hotel or something. I haven’t had to put that part into effect because lately, he’s left the house when he starts getting worked up. The arguments and dysregulations have been by phone. From now on, I plan on those calls being short.

If he’s gone, I come on home and take care of the dogs but I stay dressed and with my purse close by. I park on the street (so I can’t be blocked in). So, if he should come home altered, I can leave easily. That’s where I worry a bit — if I won’t talk, he may come home and it could be messy if he’s gone completely off the beam. At least when we’re talking, I have a clue where he is.

Honestly, it saddens and disturbs me that plans like this are necessary. Even during arguments, I know he won’t hurt or block me. It’s when he completely decompensates that things get ugly.

ETA: FF, no, I haven’t ever been able to talk to them. When I was supposed to, I wasn’t able to get on the call. He’s no longer seeing a T.

[Ozzie101]

Also, regarding the pause: we went through a time where we imposed that. We had a safe word and if either of us said it, we were to go to separate rooms for a specified period before coming back together. The point was to cool off and clear the air a bit.

Unfortunately, it never worked that way.

The first time I used it, he kept coming up and talking through the door. After that, he followed the rule, but, if anything, he used that time out to fixate even more, get more worked up, and think of more “ammo” to use.

[Cat Familiar]

The things that set him off aren’t me. But his pattern is that those things spin him off into areas that do involve me: my family, my job, etc.

Aha! Here’s your Kriptonite. He uses these areas so you get personally involved in his emotional dysregulation. By you getting upset along with him, he has camaraderie and doesn’t feel so alone and dysfunctional.

Think of the concept of Aikido, a martial art that seeks to resolve conflict peacefully. Instead of winning or losing, or meeting an attack head on, Aikido encourages stepping aside and redirecting energy.

It takes a lot of energy to defend one’s family, job, or one’s emotional commitment to the relationship. Instead, how about turning that energy back to him?

Here’s an interesting article about Aikido and leadership in business that discusses some of the concepts underpinning the martial art.   https://sanger.umich.edu/news-1-2-19-ema-aikido/

So how can you redirect his personal attacks on you, your family, your job?

1. Admit vulnerability  “Yes, I love my parents and I enjoy having a close relationship with them.”

2. Go meta  “So you think I should march into my boss’s office and demand a raise? How do you imagine my boss would respond to that? Is this something that has worked for you? And if so, how did you do that? What else did you say or do?”

3. Switch perspective  “It must feel really lonely to see what a close family connection I have when you didn’t have that growing up and you feel so estranged from your family.”

4. Reflect behavior  “Can you imagine how it feels to be upset and have you block me from leaving this room?”

5. Show potential consequences “Do you think what you are saying right now is making me love you more?”

I don’t know if any of these potential strategies would be useful. I wanted to give you some ideas of other ways to respond where you wouldn’t be triggered when he’s trying to hook you into his dysregulations.

[Ozzie101]

I appreciate the suggestions, Cat, and I’ll give them some thoughts. I’ve tried some without success but there may be some strategies to try.

So far, he’s been an expert at dodging challenges or attempts to redirect to stay in his place of anger and recrimination. Maybe I should take lessons from him — find a way to stay stubbornly in my emotional place (except in my case it would be neutrality and calmness).

[Cat Familiar]

How about letting him stay in his place of anger and recrimination?

You don’t have to participate in that.

Think operant conditioning. He’s nice; he gets your full attention.

He’s unpleasant; you have other things to do, other places to be.

You can’t fix a personality disorder.

You need to take care of your own emotional needs. He’s obviously not supporting you in that way.

[Cat Familiar]

I keep thinking about your title “what’s wrong with me.”

It’s good to be self reflective, but when your partner is blaming and accusatory, don’t you already do too much of that?

And really, how much does he examine his own behavior? Sure he can be contrite when he feels like he’s really mucked things up, but does he ever learn from the experience and change his behavior?

Being with a pwBPD and enduring their dysregulations can be likened to being in a cult. It can undermine our own sense of self.

Ozzie, it seems you’re focused on managing his behavior. How about shifting that focus to managing your response to his behavior, and perhaps your whereabouts so that you needn’t get exposed to some of the toxicity and that he can work it through by himself?

Now I imagine that you might say he will just seethe and let it build up until you’re back in his orbit and then unload on you. But as FF says, you’re letting your ears get exposed to this. Take them elsewhere.

I know it will be a hard thing for you, as a compassionate person, to do. But are you continuing to do what hasn’t been working and expecting a different result?

[Ozzie101]

You and FF are quite right. My focus has been too much on H and managing his needs and emotions. I’d already started some of the work of shifting my focus, but it’s past time to be more diligent. To alter my thinking so I’m focusing on how to protect myself (and ultimately our relationship).

[formflier]

Ozzie, it seems you’re focused on managing his behavior. How about shifting that focus to managing your response to his behavior,

I've never seen it put just like this...very on point! 

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

I really appreciate everyone’s help. It means a lot.

I have been making some changes, shifting some attitudes. But it has been slow and imperfect and I still struggle. Maybe someday I’ll get to that better place. Your putting things into words helps a lot and gives me some sense of direction and things to try.

I’ve been having knee trouble for several months and today I had a follow-up with the specialist. He wants to try a new medication and had a new suggestion for what it might be. Like clockwork, H was negative when I told him. “What makes him think that?” “Is he sure?” “I just don’t think he knows what he’s talking about.” Keep in mind that at my last visit, I discovered that this doctor and my late uncle were friends/roommates years ago. I like the doctor. He has a warm bedside manner, explains things clearly, listens well and has a lot of experience. But H’s pattern has been to try to undermine my feelings about other people — family, friends, church, colleagues.

Instead of letting it bother me, I thanked H for his concern and said I’m very happy with his care and am hopeful the new treatment will work. Then asked what he wants for dinner.

[formflier]

Solid work on handling the negative talk.

And...just a slight tweak.

Thank him for his concern..assure him you will keep it in mind...and then ask about dinner.  Probably not the best thing to let him know you are or are not taking his advice (leave that blank)

And the final exam question...why would you want to "leave it blank".


Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

I would guess leaving it blank leaves off the potential dismissal or rejection.

What I said was, “Thank you for being concerned about it and I’ll think about what you said. So far, I haven’t seen a reason to be concerned about Doc but I’ll keep it in mind.”

But that could be seen as a challenge or rejection. Better to just leave it at “thanks, I’ll think about it.”

That would annoy him, too, as he says my indecisiveness and need to “think about things” drive him nuts but that’s not really my problem.

[formflier]

You don't want to validate the invalid.  It's "invalid" to make snap decisions when you have time to think them through.

"I'll keep that in mind as I consider my decision..."

he pesters you about your decision a day or two later..

"Still thinking it through, have been looking through some interesting research..."

Basically you are kicking the can down the road.. and if he is annoyed...

Oh boy..here is the question.  Are you concerned if he is annoyed about you you decide your medical care?


Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

Not really. It’s annoying for me when he keeps bringing it up A
or if he uses that as one of his “talking points” during an argument. But if I’m not participating in that, it shouldn’t be as much of an issue. If there are real concerns about my health and care, of course I want to discuss those. But if it doesn’t present that way and just seems like moody negativity and alienation, no, I don’t care.

H has a tendency to get upset with doctors and switch to someone else. He’s frequently dissatisfied. I suspect there’s an element of “I want you to do/act like I do” involved. That’s part of why I don’t give his declarations a lot of weight.

[Cat Familiar]

OK Ozzie, think about this: it’s been a challenge for you to make changes, shift attitudes, you say it’s been slow and imperfect and you still struggle.

You are an emotionally healthy person dealing with a partner who is emotionally immature and has extreme difficulty controlling his responses and taking responsibility for his words.

You have a lot of good people skills, but are stretched to the limit by his childlike behavior. You, like all of us, had no idea that your romantic partner would behave in such a troubling way once you became more intimately connected.

Imagine this: if it’s this difficult for you, a healthy person, to make behavioral change, think about how hard it must be for someone as dysfunctional as your husband.

[Ozzie101]

That is an excellent point. I don’t remember that enough. He doesn’t have the healthier patterns. He doesn’t have the firm foundation to build on. I know his behavior frustrates him — after an episode, when he’s at baseline, he expresses how it baffles and bothers him. The fact that he’s able to feel and express that is probably a big part of my staying so long.

[ForeverDad]

I recall several years ago that my knee pain was getting so bad, felt like they were disconnected.  My doctor was surprised, as though I'd never mentioned it before.  But once I was asking for a purple parking tag, he got the message.  He sent me to a physical therapist who explained my knees were misaligned.  So now I have heel supports to tilt my heels (and hence ankles and knees) to a vertical alignment.  I've also been taking Omega 3s and curcumin extract to reduce the inflammation.  Today, knees aren't my most painful problem but my shoulders.  Ak!  Just sharing what helped me, there are of course many other causes of joint pain.

[Ozzie101]

Thanks, ForeverDad! Yeah, there can be all sorts of causes. The knee is a pretty intricate thing. My pain isn’t bad — nowhere near debilitating. It’s just nagging in a “something’s not quite right” way. My PCP and I felt like it was best to get a specialist involved up-front before it gets to that place.

Anyway, we ruled out arthritis and meniscus issues. Based on symptoms, he thinks it’s a problem with the plica so we’re trying anti-inflammatory meds for a bit.

[formflier]

While I have a host of physical disabilities (so far) knees aren't one of them.  I did have a meniscus repair done years ago (good grief..maybe 10 years).

Basically a little flap was wagging around in there and would randomly get caught at which point it felt like someone was stabbing my knee with an ice pick.

Luckily surgery and some follow up PT did the trick.

Oh..and I religiously take joint supplements now.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

My mother and three out of four grandparents have all had knee problems of one type or another. Given the fact that I also lucked out in inheriting the tendency to produce kidney stones ( ), I figured I’d probably end up with knee troubles too!

[Ozzie101]

H and SS10 were at the pool this afternoon when I got home. H called a couple of times and kept pushing their return later. I said that was fine, have fun.

They get home and H is immediately testy because I didn’t come by the pool on my way home (I’d suggested it but he had said not to worry about it since I was in work clothes and had groceries).

Then he tells me that there was a pool incident yesterday. SS and some other kids were playing a game, throwing a football to kids as they came down the slide. A girl with Downs Syndrome did it a few times. Both times SS threw to her it hit her hard in the face. After the second time, the mom spoke sharply to SS, who got upset. H told me how angry that made him — her getting onto his kid, and that he wanted to punch her in the face.

I mostly stayed quiet, sensing the danger zone. I have a sister who has special needs so I can be sensitive to that. He kept insisting he told me yesterday (he didn’t) and that I should have been there to handle it or run interference for him. To talk to the mom because of the “connection.”

I was neutral and noncommittal. I was thinking that if I had been her mom or it had been my sister, I would’ve gone mama bear too. Or at least told the kids to be more gentle. And H probably should have told SS to settle down and be more careful after the first time.

He then goes on to tell me that SS knows I hate him and that he doesn’t like me either. I don’t dislike SS. I’m concerned for him because I see some potentially troubling things which is a shame because he’s a smart, talented kid. Does he hate me? He might. I don’t know. I also don’t know what he really says to H — or what H tells him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s overheard H accusing me of disliking him.

This has come up before of course. Now I feel uncomfortable in my own house (probably what he was going for).

I’m really not sure how to handle it.