BPD and sleep

[InSearchofMe]

So BPDh had an appointment with his Psychiatrist Friday to talk about what H believed were side effects of a recent medication change.  He has been feeling very sluggish, unmotivated, and unable to focus.  P said the medication should not have caused this.  In fact it should be just the opposite.

P suggested that these symptoms sound more like sleep apnea.  He also said that of his patients who exhibit similar symptoms and have been tested for sleep apnea, only one did not have it.  P also believes that sleep apnea (and other sleep disturbances) often go undiagnosed in pwBPD because the testing for it has required overnight stays in hospitals or sleep clinics and just the thought of doing this is triggering for them.

H spoke in vague terms about how he suggested it may be other things but P basically shut down every alternative that H proposed.  I did not probe into the details even though I was very curious about it.  The appointment ended with P writing a prescription for a drug to help address the sleep apnea symptoms and H will make an appointment with the sleep study center to set up his sleep study.  The good news is this center is equipped to allow H to do the study from home.

Although H is not absolutely convinced this is the problem, he is cooperating with treatment.  Most conversations he and I have after he has met with P contain a lot of 'he has been right so far.'  He is really working to trust both P and his therapist.  Yay!   

After this conversation I began to reflect on things related to H sleep history and patterns.  In the past he has been treated for insomnia, had irregular sleep patterns, tried to put responsibility for when he wakes up on me, previous doctors have suggested sleep studies  but he refused to stay overnight away from home for the study.

My question for all of you is does you pwBPD have sleep disturbances or do you suspect they do?  If they have a diagnosed sleep disturbance and it is being treated, has it helped them?

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[JackBlacknBlue]

Mine has horrible sleep.  She has myriad of sleeping tablets.  She uses alcohol or tablets to try to sleep. 

[Littleleft]

Yup, my pwBPD has had all the problems you've described with sleeping. Bad sleep patterns and blaming for for his poor sleep -  both that it's because of me that he sleeps poorly and blaming me for not waking him up at times (as I've seen mentioned by others on here too).

He would always stay up til the early hours, never get to bed at a reasonable time and more recently he has been saying its because of me, because I'm a light sleeper and I stir if he makes even a little noise or movement.  I tried to explain to him that when he thinks he's waking me up, I'm not actually waking up.  I might stir a little and turn over or something, but I have no recollection of it in the morning, so there was no need to worry about disturbing me.  This of course had no effect.

He actually spent a night at a sleep clinic a few months ago.  I was surprised he managed it to be honest, but he coped very well.  He said he didn't get much sleep, but I thought it was great that he stuck the night out there.  The results were that he has very mild sleep apnea but not early enough to cause him any trouble.  They suggested a mouth guard device to move his lower jaw forward, to help open up his airways.

He definitely used to use alcohol to try and help, with sleep and his entire day.  He's now recovering in aa and I must say he's done a fantastic job on that side.  He does still smoke weed, and although he's cut down a fair bit on smoking it during the day, he definitely relies on it to help him get ready to sleep.

[gloveman]

     I have partial sleep apnea. A jaw extender has worked wonders for me. Lately I have been gaining weight and that exacerbates the problem.

     I am getting orthodontia at age 67.

     I was told by more than one DDS, that I should have had it as a child and that my teeth are at the point that if I don't get it, they will not last.

     The point is that I will have to get a C-PAP machine. It works better than a jaw extender, so I will sleep better.

     I, jokingly, accuse my wife of all the things your spouse accuses you of. i say, jokingly, because I understand I am the problem not her.

     Inability to sleep well causes many problems all my itself and substance abuse to try to solve the problem is one of them.

     Recently, I went to a discussion group half asleep. A friend there asked me if I was okay. I replied that I had an attack of insomnia last night. He asked me what I was stressed over. I couldn't reply in front of the entire literature discussion group about my personal problems, so I just replied with the truth, that I have had trouble sleeping since I was an infant in diapers. No one replied. They just went right back to discussing the short stories we were reading for the week.

     I now know that my sleep problems have multiple causes, the physical ones like sleep apnea and too much caffeine and the mental ones like the damage of being raised in a BPD family.

     And, of course, making BPD family replies that are too long and ramble, then worrying about them.

[Littleleft]

I hope that was a joke about worrying about making rambling replies on here gloveman.  This is the perfect place for an occasional ramble  .

I know a couple of people who use CPAP machines and they are a big help to them, so I hope that will help you and make you feel somewhat better.

Do you have therapy to try to help with the things that stop you from sleeping well?

[corraline]

My ex also had a cpap machine for years next to his bed but never used it.  He went to a sleep clinic as well. He used to ask me to let him know when he stopped breathing in the night. I couldn't always monitor that of course. It stopped happening anyway and i don't know why.  I did notice tho that he slept very long into the day and needed to nap alot. I could not understand this. He is 61, not working and not staying up any later than i was when we were together. He did drink excessively and i wondered if that was part of it. Mayb he needed to sleep off effects of the alcohol.

And, of course, making BPD family replies that are too long and ramble, then worrying about them.

i worry about some of the things i say on here.  sometimes when i am in a good place with it all i feel inspired to share, but i can feel like crap the next and wonder if i seem like such a nutbar contradicting myself.  whatever, my process is what it is.  i am being real here.  thank goodness i have found a place that i can be.  hope if you are not joking that you aren't worrying too much gloveman!

[bobcat2014]

Yes my uBPDw has terrible sleep patterns and also blames me for not staying awake all night while she sleeps or trys to. She is very resentful that I can sleep and she cannot.

[montanesa]

This is fascinating.

dBPDh sleeps approximately six hours on a good night. Lately, he's expressed how terribly sick he is of his sleep issues. I told him to bring it up with his dr. at his next appointment. He said he hasn't slept through a full night for the last 20 years.   

[formflier]

I use a CPAP machine... and I love it.  What a difference in my life.

My uBPDw likes to stay up to all hours of the night.

My gut says she is "thinking about things"... ruminating on bad stuff.

Sometime she will admit to this.

Getting my sleep better made a huge difference in my life... . I would imagine that it would help for a pwBPD as well.

[mace17]

My H has always had sleep issues too, always complaining about not being able to sleep at night. And like others have said, I get blamed a lot either for him not being able to sleep or for not waking him up when he thinks I should. I believe he also may have sleep apnea, he snores very loudly and sometimes stops breathing, but he's never been tested. Seems to be a common theme here.

[waverider]

Ramblings and contradictions are good, this is a sign of you workshopping your thoughts and evolving them.

[waverider]

A lot of poor sleeping habits arise out of generally poor regulation of the life. As a result the body does not condition itself to operate on autopilot. This is compounded by often using substances/medications to affect this regulation, instead of just normal healthy routine.

Throw in random dramas and periodic navel gazing and anyone would have sleep issues.

[hurthusband]

Yes my uBPDw has terrible sleep patterns and also blames me for not staying awake all night while she sleeps or trys to. She is very resentful that I can sleep and she cannot.

same here...

not necessarily blames me, but resentful. 

[formflier]

My H has always had sleep issues too, always complaining about not being able to sleep at night. And like others have said, I get blamed a lot either for him not being able to sleep or for not waking him up when he thinks I should. I believe he also may have sleep apnea, he snores very loudly and sometimes stops breathing, but he's never been tested. Seems to be a common theme here.

I would encourage anyone that snores... . to get a sleep study done.

On the one hand... . the study process was horrible... . lots of wires... very uncomfortable.

On the other hand... it got me a diagnosis and a cpap.  Sleep got dramatically better... . I felt better during the day.

It also was through the sleep study that they said that a number of my "wakeup events" had nothing to do with physical things (was all in my head)... . which lead me to understanding and a diagnosis of PTSD.

Making those other parts of my sleep better... . and in general focusing on quality of sleep... . got me to realize my hands keep falling asleep at night and I would wake up do to that as well... .

I thought it was a neck injury... . however it turns out... about 99% sure it is carpal tunnel.

So... . I wear braces on my wrists when I got to sleep... . and they don't fall asleep... . and I stay asleep.

Now... . some of you are shaking your head... . poor formflier is falling apart... . yeah... . lots of stuff to deal with.

The funny image of a guy getting in bed with a cpap on... . and wearing wrist braces... . that's a lot of drama to go to sleep... .    

[corraline]

Now... . some of you are shaking your head... . poor formflier is falling apart... . yeah... . lots of stuff to deal with

formflier is taking really good care of himself .  getting a good nights sleep is vital to one's health.

good for you !   

[maxsterling]

BPDgf can't seem to sleep without some kind of sleep aid.  She says she has always been this way.  Right now, she takes Trazadone.  I think she has been on other sleep medications in the past.  She, too is groggy and tired all day.  Sometimes she blames the medication, but I think the depression has much to do with it. 

It's also a chicken and egg thing.  I think her not sleeping well makes her more depressed, which makes her more lethargic and inactive during the day, which contributes to her restless nights.

Sleep apnea - I sleep next to her, and I am 99.9% convinced she has it. Without the trazadone, she snores, badly.  And ever 15-20 minutes or so, she quits snoring, and sounds like she quits breathing for a few seconds.  Then she gasps, and back to snoring for awhile.  It's worse when she first falls asleep, and by morning she is usually more restful. 

[formflier]

Sleep apnea - I sleep next to her, and I am 99.9% convinced she has it. Without the trazadone, she snores, badly.  And ever 15-20 minutes or so, she quits snoring, and sounds like she quits breathing for a few seconds.  Then she gasps, and back to snoring for awhile.  It's worse when she first falls asleep, and by morning she is usually more restful. 

That is classic sleep apnea... . the gasping... .

[ziniztar]

My dBPDbf complains a lot about his sleep as well. His ADHD and 12h lasting medicin he needs to set an alarm for - while working extremely irregular shifts don't help to build a routine.

When we first got together it really was an issue. I had to get up at six every day - he would go to bed at six am during the weekend.

Somehow it resolved. I have more freedom (changed jobs). And: we don't talk about it anymore. If I had a bad night, I don't resent him anymore. And he does not feel guilty anymore. I truly believe that your energy flows where your focus goes.

[JohnLove]

+1 here for poor sleep with my BPDgf. It seems like a common theme with the disorder.

She seems to cope much better at times with her BPD with more serotonin. She claims she sleeps soundly when she is with me.

[Nonamouse]

My BPDw can get to sleep only with TV on. She has no problem falling asleep but is an an extremely light sleeper. Many a fight has happened because I woke her up coming to bed after she already went to sleep.

I absolutely cannot sleep with a tv blaring. She was astounded that I even requested this, like I was the one inconveniencing her. I put in place a boundary, finally, that she use a timer to shut it off after 30 minutes so it's not on all night. That worked for a while but now she sleeps in the guest room most nights.

So the behavior has changed, which is good, but the unintended consequence is that we sleep in separate rooms. Anybody else do that? It feels weird this early in our marriage (2 years) but a good nights sleep is a good nights sleep.

[formflier]

My BPDw can get to sleep only with TV on. She has no problem falling asleep but is an an extremely light sleeper. Many a fight has happened because I woke her up coming to bed after she already went to sleep.

I absolutely cannot sleep with a tv blaring. She was astounded that I even requested this, like I was the one inconveniencing her. I put in place a boundary, finally, that she use a timer to shut it off after 30 minutes so it's not on all night. That worked for a while but now she sleeps in the guest room most nights.

So the behavior has changed, which is good, but the unintended consequence is that we sleep in separate rooms. Anybody else do that? It feels weird this early in our marriage (2 years) but a good nights sleep is a good nights sleep.

Has she ever tried a white noise machine?  There are other women in my family that display BPD traits... . and "have to" sleep with the TV on.

[Littleleft]

My BPDexbf would also have to sleep with some kind of noise on, it used to be the TV and I slept with earplugs and a mask on (I needed the ear plugs for the terrible snoring whilst he was still drinking lots anyway) and then more recently he would go to sleep listening to something on his iPhone.

[yassin3]

I am not overweight. I am currently 5'9" and 175 lbs (BMI has that as overweight, but I'm an athlete with a decent amount of muscle), and a lifetime competitive swimmer who has swam at a high enough level to qualify for Olympic Trials. I have always been nutritionally conscious and have exercised my entire life. I have always slept well, and have never felt tired during the day. My wife has said that I snore from time to time, but never really complained. In short, I did not present any symptoms of sleep apnea and certainly didn't fit the profile of the typical sleep apnea patient.

In May of this year I went into the Doctor for a check-up and found my blood pressure to be 240/135. I was immediately referred to a BP specialist (who was also a kidney specialist), and he sent me in for a sleep study. As a result of the high blood pressure (caused by years of undiagnosed sleep apnea), I had lost 75% of my kidney function and was told to prepare for dialysis and kidney transplant. I started use full face cpap therapy in July, and now love it. It's kind of a pain in the ass to have the hose and mask sitting by my bed, but I have zero complaints about the quality of sleep. My BP has improved with the help of medicine, but I hope that over time the CPAP will allow me to come off some if not all of the medication. I have had to drastically change my diet to try and improve kidney function, and will probably have to continue a low sodium diet (less than 1500 mg/day) for the rest of my life. I have regained some kidney function and am no longer looking at dialysis/transplant in the near future, but it is something that is still a very real possibility in the next few decades.

All because of undiagnosed sleep apnea.

[formflier]

yassin3



I'm glad you got your sleep study and are getting things under control.

I'm a fellow CPAP user and have been able to reduce BP meds as well..over time.

I would encourage you to get a sleep study every couple years.  That has allowed my sleep doctor to make changes to my machine that keeps my sleep efficiency really high.

For me...sleep is a life changer.  If my 7 day average is 8 hours...I'm a pretty "normal" person.

Around 7 hour 7 day schedule I have to put a lot of "effort" into presenting myself as "nice" to the world.

If I'm down around 6 hours for 7 day average...well...I really don't like being around myself and usually withdraw from the world until I get my sleep back on track.

I'm glad you have joined us.  Looking forward to your next post.

Best,

FF

[Stillhopeful4]

My W has had issues sleeping for the entire time we were together.  She can fall asleep at any given point in the day sitting on the couch watching tv.  She's a VERY light sleeper...any little noise wakes her and then she can't get back to sleep.  When I met her we went away for a long weekend and one night she slept thru the night and said "that's the first time I can ever remember sleeping thru the night in my life."  She wakes up frequently with night sweats and has had this problem since her early 20's (She's too young for menopause).  She's tried everything to help her sleep. Nothing seems to work.

SH4