Constant Ambiguity: Another Bump on Recovery Street

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

One of the major issues during the relationship with my subclinical BPD ex was the constant ambiguity of everything. Nothing was certain, and things were either in limbo or random. I have been collecting, processing and digesting information concerning what happened from the internet for many months now. This has helped clear some of the cobwebs.

One of the issues remains. Many people on these boards show their support by nudging newcomers towards looking inwards. I understand the reasons behind this, and agree with this approach.

However, I'm ambiguous as to what has happened to me still. No matter how much information I have gone through, I still don't know what happened to me.

I've been through healthy relationships. My healthiest one lasted for 5 years before life threw us a curve-ball, and we had no choice but to part ways on friendly terms (we even kept in touch for 2 years afterwards, even though we were in different countries).

I know I am able to approach people very easily. I can connect, bond or even turn a situation around with other people using dialog alone. I change my approach instinctively, which often leaves my friends surprised that I am able to do that. I have also been able to help friends in distress in drastic ways by using words alone. I may not be able to express my feelings easily using words (as I mentioned in another thread), and use art for that, but I can reason with people and communicate with ease. Using empathy make human interactions so much easier for me, as well. So, what happened with my subclinical BPD ex?

Writing the above paragraph made me see that my inability to express my feelings verbally may have been one of the problems with a person governed by them (in this case my subclinical BPD ex). My empathy kept me in a constant state of confusion logically because my ex was in a constant state of confusion and ambiguity. I remember feeling so much more clear-headed when she'd finally go to sleep. I ended up knowing when she'd go to sleep, because that was when the fog would be lifted from my mind suddenly.

But that's not the issue. So, what is the issue? What's my issue? I don't rate anywhere on the codependency scale. In fact I may have some traits with counter-dependency. I have some traits of manic-depression, but they're mild enough not to be an actual mood disorder (type III?). A DNA test I did points out many genes related to manic-depression. I understand that interacting with a subclinical BPD could be a reason why I found myself being extreme in my moods; or why I reacted so unlike me when there was an ambiguous situation; or why I was attracted to her to begin with; why I believed her and made a commitment to her that I compulsively didn't want to break, etc etc.

I am usually very clear-cut, clear-headed, committed, fair, non-abusive, and many other things. I am in many ways the opposite of what she is, and yet we had a lot of things in common, and most of them were the positive things. I am not a very easy person to read in social surroundings, and I've noticed many times that my ex had a hard time either reading me or understanding my needs. She couldn't mirror me successfully, which often made her feel incapable and frustrated. It was quite evident to me when she was trying to mirror me or find a way to get in there. I would help her of course, but only for the sake of the moment.

In conclusion, what I've been trying to express in this post is that almost everything I read gives me a sort of dead-end. I can't define my issues. I see my reactions were common to many people's reactions posting on these forums, but that's where the similarities end.

I would appreciate any ideas concerning more avenues of self-discovery.

[hollow]

One of the major issues during the relationship with my subclinical BPD ex was the constant ambiguity of everything. Nothing was certain, and things were either in limbo or random. I have been collecting, processing and digesting information concerning what happened from the internet for many months now. This has helped clear some of the cobwebs.

One of the issues remains. Many people on these boards show their support by nudging newcomers towards looking inwards. I understand the reasons behind this, and agree with this approach.

However, I'm ambiguous as to what has happened to me still. No matter how much information I have gone through, I still don't know what happened to me.

I've been through healthy relationships. My healthiest one lasted for 5 years before life threw us a curve-ball, and we had no choice but to part ways on friendly terms (we even kept in touch for 2 years afterwards, even though we were in different countries).

I know I am able to approach people very easily. I can connect, bond or even turn a situation around with other people using dialog alone. I change my approach instinctively, which often leaves my friends surprised that I am able to do that. I have also been able to help friends in distress in drastic ways by using words alone. I may not be able to express my feelings easily using words (as I mentioned in another thread), and use art for that, but I can reason with people and communicate with ease. Using empathy make human interactions so much easier for me, as well. So, what happened with my subclinical BPD ex?

Writing the above paragraph made me see that my inability to express my feelings verbally may have been one of the problems with a person governed by them (in this case my subclinical BPD ex). My empathy kept me in a constant state of confusion logically because my ex was in a constant state of confusion and ambiguity. I remember feeling so much more clear-headed when she'd finally go to sleep. I ended up knowing when she'd go to sleep, because that was when the fog would be lifted from my mind suddenly.

But that's not the issue. So, what is the issue? What's my issue? I don't rate anywhere on the codependency scale. In fact I may have some traits with counter-dependency. I have some traits of manic-depression, but they're mild enough not to be an actual mood disorder (type III?). A DNA test I did points out many genes related to manic-depression. I understand that interacting with a subclinical BPD could be a reason why I found myself being extreme in my moods; or why I reacted so unlike me when there was an ambiguous situation; or why I was attracted to her to begin with; why I believed her and made a commitment to her that I compulsively didn't want to break, etc etc.

I am usually very clear-cut, clear-headed, committed, fair, non-abusive, and many other things. I am in many ways the opposite of what she is, and yet we had a lot of things in common, and most of them were the positive things. I am not a very easy person to read in social surroundings, and I've noticed many times that my ex had a hard time either reading me or understanding my needs. She couldn't mirror me successfully, which often made her feel incapable and frustrated. It was quite evident to me when she was trying to mirror me or find a way to get in there. I would help her of course, but only for the sake of the moment.

In conclusion, what I've been trying to express in this post is that almost everything I read gives me a sort of dead-end. I can't define my issues. I see my reactions were common to many people's reactions posting on these forums, but that's where the similarities end.

I would appreciate any ideas concerning more avenues of self-discovery.

[enlighten me]

In a lot of ways you sound like me. Im empathic and also hard to read. That said I can see the co dependant in me.

For me the biggest confusion was to me things just didnt make sense. How my ex behaved wasnt logical. That was until I read that feelings equal facts and then a lot of things made sense. Add to  that what I was hearing wasnt what she was trying to say.  Now im out of the fog I can look back and see a lot of the confusing things where only confusing because I wasnt reading the sub text. .

[hollow]

The subtext was random. The words were there but the subtext would change according to her mood. A disclaimer that can be interpreted in as many ways as the manipulator wants.

In any case, I'm putting my behavior on the stand in this post (  ), not hers.

[Rayban]

Were you perhaps mirroring her? I've learned never to undermine how strong the attachment with a person with BPD can be. It's often said on these boards that spend enough time with a BPD, and some of the behavior will rub off on you.

[hollow]

Were you perhaps mirroring her? I've learned never to undermine how strong the attachment with a person with BPD can be. It's often said on these boards that spend enough time with a BPD, and some of the behavior will rub off on you.

I mirrored her on occasions were I saw that reason would not prevail, which was at the 3 or 4-month mark, and only did so to show her what effect her behavior was having on me. Of course this backfired many times, but the cat was out of the bag.

Also, my mind was pretty clear even through the fog. I was well aware of what was going on, yet felt as if I was caught in a whirlwind. My emotions had the better of me, as did my compulsions.

So, maybe what started as mirroring ended up being my behavior. I see what you're saying. Kinda like "method acting". Still, isn't my connection to such behavior something deeper than just mirroring? I don't want to dismiss it as "sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas" yet. Would like to dig deeper.

[Rayban]

I hear what you're saying even knowing what I was dealing brought me back.  In my case I liked the roller coaster ride, enjoyed the excitement. It was never boring.

It replaced something that was missing in my life. I hope therapy will eventually define what that is.

[hollow]

Oh, in that sense, yes, I enjoyed the excitement and the roller coaster ride of the positive things we were doing (random rewards, random good times). It wasn't my kind of interesting but it wasn't boring either, true.

But I never could handle the unreasonable, circular, illogical arguments (0-60 in a split second. What started as a contradiction, for example, ended in her blowing up and me wondering what happened. It was usually Contradiction -> Friction -> Conflict -> Argument -> Blow-up and I was still on the Contradiction level), the ambiguous situations (everything was a maybe), the cold shoulder/silent treatment, etc etc. I was focusing on the good times because they were what I was used to with my previous relationships as well. If we had a problem in previous relationships, we knew how to fix it through communication and knowing how to talk to each other. With my subclinical BPD ex, this never worked after the 2-month mark, and by the 3 or 4-month mark, I had already started "changing". I'm putting the word in quotation marks because I'm still guessing there is something there, and that it wasn't a change, in itself, but more of a "bringing out".

[anothercasualty]

In a lot of ways you sound like me. Im empathic and also hard to read. That said I can see the co dependant in me.

For me the biggest confusion was to me things just didnt make sense. How my ex behaved wasnt logical. That was until I read that feelings equal facts and then a lot of things made sense. Add to  that what I was hearing wasnt what she was trying to say.  Now im out of the fog I can look back and see a lot of the confusing things where only confusing because I wasnt reading the sub text. .

I couldn't have said this any better. BPD is not logical and just confuses the tar out of us that are extremely logical!

[enlighten me]

One thing ive come to realise is how big a role my own ego had in me staying and hurting after the break up. Going from hero to zero when I hadnt changed was a severe blow. Being replaced so easily also was.

Like the OP I can usually communicate through and resolve any conflict. Not being able to do this dented my ego.I stayed through the crazy knowing it was crazy partly to try and get the good times back but partly to prove that i wasnt worthless and didnt deserve to be treated like i was being.

[heartandwhole]

by the 3 or 4-month mark, I had already started "changing". I'm putting the word in quotation marks because I'm still guessing there is something there, and that it wasn't a change, in itself, but more of a "bringing out".

Hi hollow,

This insight sounds pretty profound to me.    If I'm reading you right, you are thinking that there were issues already present in you that the relationship with BPD evoked/triggered. That reflects my experience, too. I have said that my already existing caretaking traits went off the charts with pwBPD. It really helped me to see what had been operating in my other relationships, more subtly and below my awareness. It took something more dramatic to show me how far I would go to try to "fix" my partner's feelings and/or avoid dealing with my own needs (I hardly knew what they were).

Do any of your reactions remind you of anything from your past? Is there a feeling, ambience, or attitude permeating your interactions with pwBPD that makes you feel like a child again? For me, I noticed that the abrupt turnabouts in pwBPD's feelings and behaviors were very painful for me. At first I couldn't really relate it to anything in my FOO. Then one day I noticed that my mother often abruptly changes the subject when we converse, even when what I am talking about is very important to me.    Stuff like that seems trivial; when it's turned up to the maximum, like with pwBPD saying "I love you" and in the space of an hour "I don't love you like that," then the picture gets clearer.

Just wanted to share that in case anything resonates.

heartandwhole

[hollow]

Do any of your reactions remind you of anything from your past? Is there a feeling, ambience, or attitude permeating your interactions with pwBPD that makes you feel like a child again?

That's a lot of food for thought. I'll need to dig deeper to get a real answer. On the surface, I can only connect it to this: my father has a weird sense of humor. He thinks it's funny putting people down in front of others. I remember having my feelings hurt when I was a toddler. Growing up, I tried different approaches with him through the years: fighting back, answering back, reasoning, explaining as if to a child. If I were to relate that to my uBPDxgf, it would be the other way around: explaining as if to a child, reasoning, answering back, fighting back. So, yeah, I see where you're going with this.

I read somewhere that we sometimes end up going after partners who have common traits with the parent whom we had the most friction. As if we're trying to validate, fix or work on our relationship with that parent.

[heartandwhole]

I read somewhere that we sometimes end up going after partners who have common traits with the parent whom we had the most friction. As if we're trying to validate, fix or work on our relationship with that parent.

Yep. I've read that, too. And I can see in my relationships where that has been the case. And maybe it will always be, in some form (not so extreme as with pwBPD). I'm okay with that, as long as I learn and practice tools that will help me cope when those old wounds from the past get triggered.

I think one of the biggest issues is that we use outdated coping strategies (ones that worked as a child, but are not appropriate as adults) to deal with these kinds of relationships. Sometimes it takes something dramatic to show us that they don't work anymore—we would do better to learn other, better skills. It's not easy, because it throws us back onto ourselves, but I believe it's worth it, because then we have more freedom, and confidence that we can trust ourselves to handle what life brings.

You are doing good work here, hollow. Keep going and keep sharing!

heartandwhole