Not sure if I did the right thing..

[hopefulbutlost17]

Haven't posted in a while; so to update you this may be a long post... and whomever reads it, I greatly appreciate it

Let's go back to Thanksgiving...
My ex and I weren't talking and then out of nowhere, she sent me a message the day after Thanksgiving (while I was out of town) asking for a doctor's note she thought I might of had that was hers.  My answers were short and to the point. Then she sent me a "Thanksgiving" message saying that I will always be someone special in her life that she will always care for and love and is thankful and appreciative of all I have done for her.  I, in turn, said the same things to her and left it at that.  Didn't reach out to her after that. Then I ended up going to church that Sunday after Thanksgiving (we go to the same church) and she was there; no contact (except eye contact) and that was it.  I met my friend and her date for brunch, and on my drive over she ended up calling me and we ended up having a slight argument about church. (If you'd like to know how that conversation went, I'll be glad to tell you). After that, I got tired of going back and forth because we ended up going off topic and discussing her emotional problems, mommy issues, etc. so I stopped her and invited her to brunch with my friend and her date. She agreed and joined us but of course was on her phone the entire time she was with us and hardly if not ever engaged in conversation although my friend, her date, and myself tried.  She ended up having to leave due to meeting with my mentor (which I directed her to) to help her with a final exam assignment, I walked her out, talked a little and she left.  She sent me a message thanking me for brunch.  An hour later, my mentor calls me asking me questions about the assignment because I was originally helping my ex with it. He ended up inviting me over and I went to help out.  After that, our moment of silence from having contact with each other was over.  Fast forward to the middle of that week and she called me crying cause she was so relieved that she passed her final exam and thanked me for being there. I was planning a trip to San Antonio and saw an opportunity to invite her.  I asked her by saying, "I know you have been under a lot of stress academically and personally lately and was wondering if you'd like to join my friend and I on a quick getaway to San Antonio to just get out of here and have some much needed fun?" Without hesitation she said yes. I booked the hotel room, made a slight itinerary and let both my friend and ex know what I had planned.  We were all excited.

We get to SA, and have lunch, and do a little shopping.  While we were shopping we began to be affectionate with each other.  Hugging, kissing each other's cheeks, arms around each other.  She made a comment saying "I wasn't expecting this" I said "you know you can tell me to stop if you don't feel comfortable" She said "i know but I'm just going with the flow" I said "okay, sounds good, but just let me know if you want me to stop" she said "Okay"

We check in to the hotel room and get ready for a night out.  She looked beautiful.  While looking for a bar, we got a little lost and she started making comments "why didn't you plan this better, did you not know where the bars are, why dont' you call an Uber" So I got irritated.  I wear my emotions on my face so she knew I was upset. We get to a bar, have a couple drinks and my friend messages me, "loosen up and have a good time. compliment her" so I swallowed my pride and told her she looked beautiful.  Ended up going to another bar, we were all feeling loose and good and started dancing, having a great time. I wasn't overbearing, overprotective even when guys were hitting on her.  I let her be herself and in her element. That's when I knew I was in trouble. I fell in love with her all over again! 

Towards last call, she ended up having an "episode" (is what we call them). She was tense, grabbed me, started scratching my arm and I knew what was happening.  She was having some kind of episode (anxiety/panic or was triggered by something).  I just soothed her, rubbed her arms and pulled her closer to me to make her feel safe.  She snapped out of it and we were picked up by my friend's date.  On our way to pick up food, we got close and I told her I fell in love with her all over again, that I wanted to fix things with her. We ended up kissing, and she reciprocated but then pushed me away saying "no, you hurt me" and at that point i asked her if she would allow my to fix it.  She said she would think about it.  I gave her some space and sat away from her.  While waiting in the drive thru, she ended up having another "episode" and grabbed my arm super tight and started crying.  She said "I felt him, I haven't felt him in a long time and I felt him as if he were right here" (I know exactly who she was talking about). I soothed her again, told her everything was going to be okay and that I was right here. 

Next day, we go to a football game and had a great time.  However, she kept dodging the tv camera and was beyond paranoid that we would end up on tv (she didn't want anyone to know I was there with her, yet half our town was at the football game).  After the game, we went to eat, were affectionate with each other again. Then we went to a plaza that was lit up for Christmas, families were everywhere, kids playing, dogs running around. It was beautiful and romantic.  We were absolutely fine when we walked in to a coffee shop to get some hot chocolate (I was falling asleep and needed a pick me up).  Once we passed the families, kids, and dogs, we sat a restaurant and had wine.  That's when she switched on me.  Cell phone was out and never put down.  My friends even noticed and I got bothered. After that, it went downhill from there. I couldn't shake it off.  And it was a consistent thing, like she never put the phone down. And she knew it was bothering me.  After about an hour or so, I went for a walk to try and calm down. My friend even told me to try and shake it off and turn the night around.  So she and her date got up and left us alone and I tried talking to her.  I cried out of frustration to her, she kept telling me "If I wanna be on my phone I will. I can do whatever I want, no one will tell me what to do. Is this why you want to get back with me? So you can act like this and ruin a good time."

Of course those words hurt me, but I persisted and apologized and things ended up turning around.  Once we headed back home that night, we began talking and I may have triggered something that she ended up going on rant and accusing me of inviting her on the trip with a motive to get her back.  I can see where she may see that, but I explained that it was not my intention at all, that I wanted all of us to have a great time and getaway from stress and drama but my feelings overcame me and I was 'going with the flow.' Of course, she was already disregulating because she began to bring up things from the past and when I "hurt" her. We began to argue and say things and finally I just said, "I'm done" turned around and fell asleep. When we got home, I was still upset and the fact that she didn't help bring things into my apartment and just stood there on her phone and had the audacity to ask for some supplies pissed me off even more.  i gave her the supplies and just kept going about my business and then here she comes walking in to my apt picking a fight. I even asked her to leave before things are said and she kept persisting. Sure enough, I blew up... Once we fought, she texted my best friend asking her to speak to me when she got a chance.  The next day after analyzed everything I texted her to speak to her (with intention to apologize) but she cut me off before i could even say anything. 

We went no contact for about 1.5 days and she contacted with something random.  Then she asked me to help her out with an exam (that she needed someone to read the questions to her) and I agreed, we set a time and date.  However, she ended up coming to my place of work to print and scan some other papers she needed to turn in. While she was there she made comments "this is awkward. why are you just standing there, why are you looking at me." She kept getting messages from the same guy she was texting while we were out of town and even turned her phone around so I "wouldn't see" or maybe to see if i gave her a reaction, not sure.  I played it off (even though deep down inside I was bothered). We ended up leaving and going to the public library to do her exam and on my way I was on my phone with my best friend (we were in separate cars). I parked and didn't think she would notice I was on my phone. I got off and couldn't find her, so I went inside looking for her and sure enough she was already at a table. I mentioned to her that she walked in real fast and she said "well you were on your phone" I said "you couldn't wait like 10 seconds for me, i couldn't find you" she said "you were busy on your phone" I left it at that.  then we sat down and I was going to sit in front of her and she makes another comment "why are you going to sit there, makes no sense" then points to sit next to her and I did.  So of course, the little vindictive me wanted to give her a taste of her own medicine, so I began texting my friend. I would put the phone down a few times but I was also messaging my friend.  She asked me to help her on some questions but what was I really doing there, honestly. I didn't read one question like she asked for me to do in her original text and i only helped her with 6 questions out of 30, mind boggling. So once we were done, she said "thanks talk to you soon"  A few minutes after leaving each other she messaged again "thank you" and made some small talk but that was it.  Over the weekend, she didn't message me until Sunday after church (which i made a point not to show up) and sent me "Good morning, hope you have  great day" I responded with "thanks, you too!" that was it!

Next day, she messaged me asking what the workout for the day was and i sent her a picture of it.  She thanked me and there was small talk. She said she had been feeling sick and exhausted. I suggested "Maybe a good meal and some rest will do the trick." She responded "Yes!" I replied "I'm making some stew later if you want to stop by" She said "doesn't sound good" I said "Ok" and that was it. next day, nothing, not one text. Wednesday, she started texting me asking if I knew someone who reads cards and does a cleansing (she thinks her mom has done some kind of black magic on her).  A cousin of mine knows someone, so I provided her with the number.  Then another friend of mine showed me her snapchat and I saw that she had posted a snap of her having ice cream with a guy the night before. Of course i got upset.  So I began to ruminate and get anxious. I wanted answer, straight up, no more beating around the bush.  So here's what i did... .
Me: Hey
Her: Hey
Me: Would you like to grab dinner tonight, my treat.
Her: Where?
Me: You choose
Her: May I ask why?
Me: Cause i want to see you
Her: I'm scared attitude will be involved or I will only get hurt by your words
Me: Just know that that's not my intention
Her: So then why do it and make me feel like ass?
Me: Just want us to have dinner and have a meaningful conversation
Her: What kind of conversation?
Me: A meaningful one
Her: Out of respect for myself, it's best if we don't. I know how things will end.
Me: (after my counseling session) I understand and respect your wishes. Out of respect for myself, it's time I cut ties with whatever relationship we have. Please do not contact me and respect my decision, thank you. (and I blocked her on all accounts and she blocked me too)

Now, I'm having second thoughts about what i did, and my closest friends tell me otherwise. I also begin to ruminate about her new supposed interest (I did ask her if she was interested in him twice and she said no on both accounts) so maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, but she is giving him so much attention and here I am like chopped liver.

I thank you for those who took the time to read my long post, I haven't posted anything in a while. Any thoughts, questions, advice is welcomed.


 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Bnonymous]

Hi hopefulbutlost17,

It sounds as though you acted impulsively in saying you wanted to cut ties and blocking her. From reading your whole thread, it sounds as though you felt painfully confused by everything that happened recently (particularly her interest in this guy and your uncertainty regarding the nature of that), you felt desperate to attain some clarity, and, when she wouldn't meet for dinner to talk things over, you kind of felt like the only way you'd get the emotional clarity you needed was by cutting ties, so you did it there and then - is that correct?

Your ex probably won't have seen that. Reread the conversation and imagine how it sounds from her point of view.

You wanted to meet and she expressed some reservations and worries about it. You tried to reassure her by saying it wasn't your intention to have attitude or use words to hurt her; you just wanted dinner and meaningful conversation. She then asked for clarification about what you meant by "meaningful conversation". You didn't explain further. She said she thought it was best not to meet out of respect for herself and said she knew how it would end. You started out saying you respected her wishes, but then immediately said out of respect for yourself you wanted to cut ties and you then blocked her everywhere.

She is likely to have heard your use of her words ("out of respect for myself") as sarcastic and retaliatory. She is likely to have seen the blocking as punishment for having refused your invite. (I'm not saying these things were the case, but that we, on the boards, have actually been given more background information about the thoughts and feelings that led you there than she has - if she was going on the convo alone, without the context you've given us, then she is likely to have read/heard it that way).

Could you try rewriting this dialogue to see if there was another way you could have handled it? See if there are any places where you could have validated and addressed her worries. See if there are any places where you could have respectfully and gently raised your worries. I don't necessarily mean post a revised dialogue here (though you'd be welcome to do so). I mean so that you can compare it with other ways it could have gone and then decide whether you think you handled it well/did the right thing.

If, after her refusal of the invitation, you had taken some time out to just breathe and then to reflect, what would your response have been then? Would you still have asked to cut ties? Or might you have done something different?

[hopefulbutlost17]

Hi Bnonymous,

Thank you so much for your response.

I can totally see what you're saying how she may have interpreted it.  That's what got me second guessing myself in the first place.

Mind you, we have gone through this cycle over and over again. I have expressed what it is I want from her. Her words say one thing, her actions say another. So yes, I agree I acted out of being painfully confused.  She tells me she doesn't want a relationship with anyone, me included, yet she gives this guy all the attention and post snaps about him.  She never does that with me.  I have stuck to my guns about what I want from her (a relationship, a chance to fix whatever we had and a chance to be happy together). She fights me on it and says "why so you can talk bad to me and treat me badly (I do react after remaining calm and stepping away, but she continues to push and I react).  She never clarifies what she wants from me and when she does, the lines are blurred once again, yes, to my fault as well because I allow it.  She's verbally and emotionally mean.  When I ask her to leave me alone and not contact me because we are not on the same page, she finds a way to contact me and tells or is affectionate with me and catches me off guard.  She says I'm not the same person she met, so I tried to get back to that on our trip and she switches on me. 

She says she knows how it's going to end because she knows what type of conversation we are going to have when I say "meaningful."  She never wants to discuss it in person, she always avoids it.  I didn't find that fair when I was trying to be nice on the trip, and then answering her messages and helping her out with what she needed and then for her to tell me those things?  So yes, I did act impulsively our of pain because I'm completely confused.  My counselor agrees, my friends agree, but of course my heart says otherwise.  I second guess myself that maybe I should have waited for her response when I decided to cut ties, but for what? I know it was going to end badly as well. 

I've played the different scenarios in my head. I've put myself in her shoes on the actual conversation too.  I know her response would have turned into her going on rant and just bringing up the past, again, and her telling me nasty things.  Just like her, I avoided the situation.  I feel like I deserve answers after 3 years of this back and forth.  She wants to remain friends, I don't. 

If you need more background, let me know.

[Bnonymous]

Hi hopefulbutlost17,

What were the issues and reasons that led to your break-up?

During the time you spent together recently, do you see anything different from when you were a couple, anything that suggests that things might be different this time around? If she were receptive to getting back together, have you any plans/ideas for how to prevent falling into the same patterns that were a problem for you last time?

[hopefulbutlost17]

We haven’t been a “couple” since March... we tried to get back together in August but she was fresh off another break up that it just didn’t happen. She claims that I hurt her so badly that she can never trust me or give me another chance. From my perspective, she wants her cake and to eat it too. The benefits of a partner but no label and she can do whatever she wants.  I’ve explained that I cannot be friends with her. She looks for me every time we go no contact. Sometimes I do too but it’s mainly her. So when we were out of town I said whatever and went for it asking to give us another chance. She rejected me. Asked her to dinner, rejected again. I have been rejected many times since August, I’m tired. Hence, my reason to cut ties with her the other day.

She’s careful, distance, closed off. I know she has her walls up and is testing me... and I feel like a I fail each time because she pushes me to my breaking point. The last time we argued she admitted she was testing me. But yet, here I am, still and continue to get rejected.

Given the chance to get back together, there are many things I would differently. I would be more accepting of her reality and opinions. I would listen to hear and not to Answer (I realized that was an issue). I would try not to jump to conclusions and be straight forward with her (ask her straight up if I have a doubt or worry). I would be more about space if we both get heated. I would continue to be understanding, caring, loving, appreciative, and comforting. I would talk things out or set up a system to where we both say “hey, we are getting upset/triggered, let’s step back a bit.”  She pushes, I tend to push back... .I would like for her to give us more than a week, two weeks, a month to give us a chance and make adjustments. She gives up at the first sign of difficulty.

[Bnonymous]

Given the chance to get back together, there are many things I would differently. I would be more accepting of her reality and opinions. I would listen to hear and not to Answer (I realized that was an issue). I would try not to jump to conclusions and be straight forward with her (ask her straight up if I have a doubt or worry). I would be more about space if we both get heated. I would continue to be understanding, caring, loving, appreciative, and comforting. I would talk things out or set up a system to where we both say “hey, we are getting upset/triggered, let’s step back a bit.”  She pushes, I tend to push back... .I would like for her to give us more than a week, two weeks, a month to give us a chance and make adjustments. She gives up at the first sign of difficulty.

Wow! It sounds like you've been doing a lot of thinking about this and have gained a lot of insight and resolve as a result. This is really positive.

So... .You know how to go forward if she decides she's ready to commit, but you're not sure you can hang about much longer if she isn't?

I'm wondering if there is any way you could communicate to her the things in the quote above? If you're at a stage where you really feel you can't continue in limbo, then maybe you should do that? Maybe you could write all of this out in an email?

You could start by telling her you're sorry for reacting so impulsively, blocking her etc. Tell her that, on reflection, you understand her reservations and worries about meeting up, and you acknowledge that things have gone badly before and it's understandable that she's wary of that happening again. Then tell her how you've been thinking a lot about things and tell her what you've told us (minus the "I would like for her to... ." bits - stick to what you would do differently).

Don't make any demands (or say anything she might perceive as demands) at this point. Don't tell her that you want/need a relationship. Just tell her how you would do things differently, without asking for a chance to.

Keep it hypothetical. Keep it "If I could do our relationship over, I would... .". That way, it could serve either as a plan for the future or as closure, depending on how she responds to it.

Then wait. Wait as long as it takes for her to respond (or decide not to respond). And then decide where you want to go from there.

I wouldn't advise such a big move in most situations. Most situations call for either standing back and giving the other space, or making gentle, light, no-pressure reach-outs. But, in your particular situation, it sounds as though you have had enough of being in limbo and you are truly ready to call it a day rather than stay there - is that right? If that's the case, then I don't think there's anything to lose in letting her know how you've been thinking, giving her space to think about how a future together could go second-time around, and waiting to see what (if anything) she says.

But, if you go down this route, be prepared for possible rejection. Just tell yourself that, if you are rejected, it will be for the last time. And be sure of that. Don't make a big move like this unless you are ready and prepared for reconciliation or closure and can see it as a first step on either path.

What do you think? Am I correct in thinking you are at this point now?

[once removed]

when the two of you are on a good trajectory toward possibly getting together, you both get into the same old patterns that blow things up. this is one reason she is hesitant to get back together. it doesnt feel safe.

with each return to these patterns, with each fight, with each cut off, more damage is done each time.

it might be time to ask the hard questions: can this be repaired? can you end your contribution in the cycle of dysfunction? do you want to? or would it be best to move on?

[hopefulbutlost17]

Bnonymous,

You hit the nail right on the head!

However, I have told her all these things before. Handwritten letters, in person, and text. But continue to be told that I hurt her and that I will never change. I don’t blame her for thinking that way duento my reactions after being pushed so many times and trying to remain calm. We all have a breaking point, I’m sure most will agree. Again, however, I did think about writing a handwritten letter, once more. Explaining the exact things you said to do. You and I are totally on the same page. I have absolutely nothing to lose. So why not... right?

I will more than likely be rejected. Be told that I have no right to do this to her, that she is not a toy that can be picked up and placed down, that she doesn’t believe I am sorry or that if the relationship is going to be this way that I say sorry when I mess up and me expect her to just be okay and allow me to “treat” her this way (yes, she has said these things many times before.  

She has made it clear that she doesn’t want a relationship, yet I see her on a dating app or talking to specific people. Beyond confused on that part.

I’m going to take your advice... and like you said, that will be it. I am tired of this game and being stuck in limbo. It’s been going on for too long. Maybe I can write the letter and let you read it, tell me what you think?

[hopefulbutlost17]

when the two of you are on a good trajectory toward possibly getting together, you both get into the same old patterns that blow things up. this is one reason she is hesitant to get back together. it doesnt feel safe.

with each return to these patterns, with each fight, with each cut off, more damage is done each time.

it might be time to ask the hard questions: can this be repaired? can you end your contribution in the cycle of dysfunction? do you want to? or would it be best to move on?

I agree, 100%. It’s diffucult. And I am hesitant as well. I want to end the contribution to the cycle, I want to break it. I was vulnerable to her and she completely discarded me, so of course I was emotional and made decision based on my emotion. I need to change that.

I ask myself those questions each day. I’m absolutley torn at this point. I want to stay to have one more chance but I’m tired as well as I am sure she is too.

[Bnonymous]

I will more than likely be rejected. Be told that I have no right to do this to her, that she is not a toy that can be picked up and placed down, that she doesn’t believe I am sorry or that if the relationship is going to be this way that I say sorry when I mess up and me expect her to just be okay and allow me to “treat” her this way (yes, she has said these things many times before. 

If that happens, can you respond in a respectful, validating, accepting way, and then let go?

Maybe I can write the letter and let you read it, tell me what you think?

Sure, you're welcome to run it past us if you feel that might help. Write it, but, before you send, do think some more on Once Removed's questions.

[hopefulbutlost17]

Here is what I have worked on...

“”First off, I want to start by apologizing from the bottom of my heart for reacting so impulsively and blocking you. I know I’ve apologized in the past a few times; know that I am sincere each and every time. Upon reflection, I understand your hesitation and worries about meeting up. I have acknowledged that things have gone badly before and it’s understandable that you are on guard of more damage being created and distrust. I want to break that cycle.

I have been doing a lot of thinking and the thought of losing you scares me tremendously. I cannot picture my present and future without you in it I acknowledge the fact that my emotions get the best of me. I also acknowledge the fact that I tend to make the same mistake a couple of times. As I’ve mentioned to you, I am working on myself and that takes time with trial and error runs; I am human.

If I could do our relationship over, I would be more accepting of your reality and opinions. I would be more of an active listener rather than reactive. I would try not to jump to conclusions and be straightforward with you. For example, if I were to have any doubts or worries, I would ask you straight up, rather than assume. I would be more about giving space, if and when we both become heated. I would want to talk things out or set up a system to where we both know “hey, we’re getting upset/triggered, let’s step back and allow a cooling off period.” I would also continue to be understanding, caring, loving, appreciative, comforting, and supportive of you.

I know actions speak louder than words, so if you have gotten this far, thank you for taking the time to read this letter. About three years ago, I told you that you are the love of my life; that statement remains true to this day. I’ve never given up and don’t plant to. Please know that I am not expecting a response from you anytime soon. I pray that you take the time to really think things over and listen to your heart. I love and appreciate you, whole heartedly.””

Any insight would be tremendously appreciated!

[Bnonymous]

I'm just dashing out the door now, so will provide a longer response later.

For now, what jumps out at me about this letter is that you don't sound as though you're in a make-or-break place. My advice was based on the idea that you were truly ready to accept it if she didn't want to get back together, that you would lay your cards on the table, but be ready to walk away if she turned you down. Reading your letter, it doesn't sound like that's how you really feel. Especially from this bit:

 About three years ago, I told you that you are the love of my life; that statement remains true to this day. I’ve never given up and don’t plant to.

If you're not actually ready/willing to walk away, then hold off on the letter and do some more thinking. If you want to keep trying/not give up, then you might be better off taking the "giving her space" and "gentle reach-out" routes.

[hopefulbutlost17]

I could delete those lines

[Bnonymous]

Hi again 

Deleting the lines would improve the letter, but it wouldn't address the feelings that led you to write them. If you're not completely sure that you are ready to walk away if she continues to not want a reconciliation, then hold off for a while and do some more thinking.

It does sound as though you have had enough of the uncertainty in the situation. Like you say, you're tired (understandably). And this is currently coming out in impulsive retreats like what happened when you blocked her. Every time something like this happens, it does more damage to the relationship between you.

But, on the other hand, there's the fact that you said in the letter that she was the love of your life and still is and that you haven't given up and don't plan to; this suggests that part of you is not ready to detach yet.

I do think you need to step back and do some thinking about things before you decide what you want to do next. If you do decide that you want to send the letter (or a version of it), then I'll gladly go over the text with you (as will others here). But, after reading it, I now have a better idea of where you're at emotionally and I think it would be helpful if you took some more time to think things over first.

[once removed]

if you want to reestablish the lines of communication, and only if... .

why not just apologize?

[hopefulbutlost17]

I wrote the letter, with the first lines being an apology and deleting the lines that I mentioned I would delete.  I left it on her vehicle while she was in church. I have no clue if she has read it or torn it up.  All I can do at this moment is pray that she read it and wait. 

I want to work things out but I am also frustrated and tired that nothing changes on her part.  Although, looking back, analyzing, and reading threads on here, I've realized that each time she 'comes back' she is testing me.  Every time I react to her tests, we lose trust and cause more damage (as once removed and Bnonymous mentioned earlier. 

I'm thinking more logically now and need to learn to step back before I react emotionally.  I have been told that she is posting snaps of her and 'her friends' each and every day; that it is a bunch of random people and someone different each day... I told myself that she is enjoying herself (which she is entitled to, I remember when i was in my early 20s) and just need to let her be herself.

The waiting game sucks, but I do have plenty of work to do to keep myself busy. 

[once removed]

more than likely, she will randomly get in touch as she has before. its not a sure thing of course, and i suspect if/when that happens, things may be pretty cold between you for a while.

looking back, analyzing, and reading threads on here, I've realized that each time she 'comes back' she is testing me. 
... .
I'm thinking more logically now and need to learn to step back before I react emotionally.

it will help to post in other members threads... .its easier to see where someone else is erring when we arent part of the situation, yet often times, the help/insight we give is something useful that can apply to our own circumstances; itll keep you in problem solving mode.

[hopefulbutlost17]

Once Removed, thank you!

This family has been my voice of reason for the last few months and I think I'd be lost without you all... .

I'm learning so much not only about my ex, but about myself too. 

I will keep you all updated if she makes contact...

[hopefulbutlost17]

Have not updated since I left a letter on her vehicle (mentioned previously on this post)... .

I never got a response from her in regards to the letter I wrote, so I left it alone.  A friend of mine has her on social media and told me she posted a video of a new guy she is dating.  I messaged her and asked her straight up if she was dating someone and she said yes and asked me to leave her and her family alone so that she can finally be happy.  It hurt, but I respectively said yes and thanked her for being honest.  She tried to continue conversation with me after that but i did not reply or answer her messages.   She also sent me picture after hours of not replying to her. Fast forward to New Year's Eve, and we ended up seeing each other at the gym.  I felt as if I "punished" her by not replying to her messages so I asked to speak to her after the workout.  We spent about 2 hours talking.  I cleared the air with her and told her there were no hard feelings and that her happiness was important to me (whether it was with or without me).  I validated her and how good of a person she is and to be careful with who she surrounds herself with and that she is destined to do well.  Before ending our conversation, I gifted her the birthday/Christmas presents I had gathered for her.  She accepted them and was beyond happy to receive and open them (she opened them in front of me).  The gifts were very detailed and were exactly her/who she is/what she likes.  New Years, about 8 min, after midnight she messaged me "happy new year jerk". I replied with a "happy new year" she replied back saying she was drunk and i simply said to "be careful"  Next day, nothing. My birthday was on the 3rd of January and she messaged me the day prior in the evening to wish me an early birthday.  She sent a nice message and I thanked her for it.  The evening of my birthday before midnight she sent me a "once again, happy birthday" message along with an old video she took of me sleeping.  I replied with "always catching me sleeping, . again, thank you." she replied the next morning with you're welcome and I left it alone.  We saw each other that saturday at the gym and she was wearing the entire gym outfit I got her as part of the Christmas gift.  She asked me to rub some pain reliever cream on her lower back as well.  After the workout, we stayed outside talking again for about 2 hours.  She talked about how specific people in her life are raining down on her happiness, want to control her and talk bad about her.  She even brought up the guy she is currently dating and mentioned she was happy and that her friend D just wants to bring her down.  I gave her some words of encouragement and then we parted ways.  She messaged me later on that evening but I noticed her messages were very spaced out (1-2 hours between replies). I figured she was with the guy so I tried not to pay any attention even thought it killed me.  Sunday came around and she messaged me with an exciting "good morning!" so I replied the same way.  Her replies were a little more closer together saying her back was hurting, I offered a massage, she said she would let me know and then kept complaining about it.  Her replies began to be spacey again, up to 4 hours now, and when she finally replied she said "will do, sorry was busy getting ready" I in turn took a while to answer as well and said "ok" and then she replied again saying "we are celebrating E's birthday" (E is her nephew). I replied with "Happy birthday to E" and she then replied with "Awww" I didn't reply after that.  Which led to her sending "I guess goodnight jerk" and I replied with "goodnight". 

Two days later, in the afternoon, she sent me a message of her statement of charges for her college tuition complaining/confused as to why she owed so much money if she was receiving financial aid, etc.  I didn't reply until about 4-5 hours later saying "that sucks" and she replied with "yeah, have a good day" I replied an hour later saying "thanks, you too" and she replied with "welcome" I left it alone. Next day, in the afternoon again, she sent a message saying "now i know why it's messed up. it's cause of the mess with the wall" (The border wall, we live on the border).  I didn't reply.  She then called me a couple hours later and asked:
Her: why are you being like this
Me: how
Her: you're acting weird
Me: how am i acting, i'm totally fine
Her: nevermind, click.

At that point, I replied with "glad you figured it out" and she sent "K"

Later on she sent, "idk why you're acting this way" I never replied and then she called
Her: you're acting weird, since when do you take a super long time to answer my messages
Me: I'm not acting weird
Her: Whatever, you are and you never take this long
Me: Look, I'm you asked me a while back to step aside and respect you and your happiness.  I've realized that you and I messaging/talking back and forth while you have someone else is disrespectful to your guy and unhealthy.  You wanted me to leave you alone and that's what I'm doing.  You said it was time for you to move on and be happy and I am respecting that.  Again, it's disrespectful to your new relationship and unhealthy for me to continue messaging. 
Her: Are you serious right now? I thought we were cool? and now you're saying all this and confusing me?
Me: We are cool, that's why I spoke to you after you asked me to leave you alone to clear the air that there were no hard feelings.  Yes, we messaged for new years and my birthday and a little after that but understand that I want to respect you and your new relationship.
Her: You do this all the time.  I'm happy and you come and try to mindf**k and confuse me.
Me: You're confused? Please be honest with  me and yourself if you're confused.
Her: No, it's fine. I'll just go back to the way I was. We can go back to being jerks so I can be fine.  For once stop doing this. Stop coming back when "you're ready" and messing up my life/happiness.
Me: I'm sorry, you have me confused with your exes.  If there's one thing about me is that I'm always ready. I'm ready to fix/work things out.  I may need a little space to analyze our fights/relationship and ask myself "how can I fix this/myself and make this work" but I am always ready.  I do not lie to you and tell you that I've changed just to get you back and then go back to my ways, again, you're confusing me with your exes.  Is there anything else so that I can move on?
Her: (scoffs) Right, okay.  (stays quiet) you can have everything you've ever given me in the last 2 years back.
Me: if that's what you need to live your life, then fine.  Anything else?
Her: no (silence)
Me: (silence)
Her: click

This happened last Wednesday... .Friday, she messages my best friend out of nowhere. Mind you, she never really messages her, I think only twice since they exchange numbers and it was about me... .She messaged my best friend, S, to talk about her best friend, L.  She asked how S was doing and said that L told her they have started talking. (yes, S, my best friend and L, my ex's best friend, have been talking and gone on a couple of dates).  S replied with yes, we have been and have gone on a couple of dates. My ex replied with "i'm so happy to hear that and I hope it works out for the both of you. L is a really good guy and we have been really good friends for the last few months"  S told her thank you and left it at that. 

It's Monday, I went to the gym at 5:30am... That is my time to go due to my work schedule.  My ex hardly, if never, goes.  She doesn't like going at that time due to drama and only goes if she has plans during the day or has to work and can't make it during her usual time... I tried not to read too much into it and finished my workout.  I get home from the gym and low and behold, receive a phone call from her (after no contact since Wednesday).  She asked if we could meet later today so she can give me all my stuff back.  I agreed and said that I would let her know when I was free... .

Now I'm torn... .and need advice...

[once removed]

Now I'm torn... .and need advice...

regarding which part?

[hopefulbutlost17]

regarding which part?

I want to work things out with her (cause obviously there is still a connection there).  I've learned that the more unavailable I have been to her the more it bothers her and she wants to talk to me or know about me or see me.

Should I meet with her or continue to stand my ground and stay away? I don't want to "punish" her or contradict myself either. I just don't want to fall back into the cycle (she knows how to suck me back in), fight and I don't want to be her "safety net."  I am not an option, I would like priority and respect back... Either she is with me or with the guy; not both.  I do find it disrespectful to be messaging your ex when you're in a relationship with someone else.  I wouldn't want that done to me.  The items she is returning are materialistic things that I honestly have not had since we initially broke up in April (they are not everyday items that are a necessity).

[once removed]

i just dont see any difference to the status quo, hbl.

the two of you by and large have the same dynamics at play. nothing has really changed. nothing changes without changes.

you can meet with her or stand your ground... .i dont think that will change much. youll still be on the same trajectory.

posting after the damage is done doesnt leave you with a lot of options or ways to advise you. the relationship needs a radical change in direction, you need to work at it consistently, or the two of you are just going to continue to have these spats until you hate each other and everything explodes.

[hopefulbutlost17]

i just dont see any difference to the status quo, hbl.

the two of you by and large have the same dynamics at play. nothing has really changed. nothing changes without changes.

you can meet with her or stand your ground... .i dont think that will change much. youll still be on the same trajectory.

posting after the damage is done doesnt leave you with a lot of options or ways to advise you. the relationship needs a radical change in direction, you need to work at it consistently, or the two of you are just going to continue to have these spats until you hate each other and everything explodes.

What radical change are you speaking of? Examples would be of great help...

Consistency in the actual relationship is not an issue for me; I'm all for working on it and being patient. 

[once removed]

What radical change are you speaking of? Examples would be of great help...

all we can do is give examples of how what you described above either didnt help or made things worse. the problem is theyve already happened. there arent do overs here. the only advice going forward is "dont make things worse".

radical change would be to learn the tools and start to apply them here and in your relationship. to ask questions about them. to post in times of calm about how to resolve the particular conflicts in your relationship.

it would also require sorting out whether you want to be friends with her, be her romantic partner, or go your separate ways. they are all different approaches. right now, you are mixing the three.

[hopefulbutlost17]

all we can do is give examples of how what you described above either didnt help or made things worse. the problem is theyve already happened. there arent do overs here. the only advice going forward is "dont make things worse".

radical change would be to learn the tools and start to apply them here and in your relationship. to ask questions about them. to post in times of calm about how to resolve the particular conflicts in your relationship.

it would also require sorting out whether you want to be friends with her, be her romantic partner, or go your separate ways. they are all different approaches. right now, you are mixing the three.

I can definitely see where I mixed the three and where the confusion lies.  She knows exactly how I feel and that I want a romantic relationship with her.  She knows I cannot be friends with her.  But I can see where I confused her by talking to her after the gym and replying to her messages (it's difficult not to when they give you that little ounce of hope). 

[once removed]

did you meet?

[hopefulbutlost17]

Sorry for the late update... .

Yes we ended up meeting after being on the phone for about 1.5 hours.  We began talking again and seeing each other for a week.  I knew she was still talking to the guy she was dating.  She shared things about their relationship (which I probably should not have allowed her to do) but I just listened.  We ended up spending time together (she stayed over a few times, went out to eat) and talked a lot.  I gave her attention and made it a point to listen and not give my opinion or advice unless asked for.  I pretty much did everything right. 

Then... .the storm hit.  She accused me of lying and cheating; brought up the past (again) and threw it in my face; said I was never going to change, I'm manipulative, I only want her for myself and not to be with anyone else simply because I cannot be alone.  Basically threw everything at me in a span of 24 hours.  I saw it coming... This happened last Friday/Saturday.  She began her picking Thursday night, but I didn't react.  I didn't react until Saturday, cause of course like any human, we have our limits.   Every time I would catch myself wanting to react, I would stop myself or apologize right away and calm down...   It got to a point where I finally just told her "you win, leave me alone." 

We have not spoken since Saturday, however she did ask me a question at the gym, and I replied but other than that, no contact. 

I know and feel that I did better this time around and I don't feel I was at fault for anything... Maybe there was trigger, but I can't really put my finger on it.  Maybe it wasn't even me that triggered her but added fuel to the fire.  Not sure...

[once removed]

"you win, leave me alone." 

is this the relationship you want with her?

[hopefulbutlost17]

is this the relationship you want with her?

No, it's not they type of relationship I want with her.